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Wanaomkosoa Nyerere wana hoja?

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by KAMBOTA, Jul 1, 2011.

  1. K

    KAMBOTA Senior Member

    #1
    Jul 1, 2011
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    Siku za hivi karibuni kumekuwa na kundi kubwa la watu waliojipambanua kuwa wao ni wakosoaji wa Nyerere na hata baadhi yao wamethubutu kumwita dikteta ingawaje kwa miaka mingi Nyerere amekuwa akiheshimiwa sana miongoni mwa wananchi wa kawaida wa Tanzania.

    Mara nyingi ukosoaji huwa umekuwa ukifanywa na vyombo vya habari ikiwa ni pamoja na magazeti, blogs na wakati mwingine wanasiasa na watu binafsi mpaka sasa sitakosea nikisema ukosoaji dhidi ya Nyerere umekithiri kwa siku za karibuni.

    Kwa bahati mbaya mimi nimezaliwa miaka ambayo Nyerere ameshastaafu ingawaje nilifanikiwa kusoma vitabu vyake na hata kumwona. Kupitia maandiko yake sijaona jambo baya lakini bado sishawishiki kuwa alikuwa anapatia kila kitu.

    Hivyo ndugu wadau naomba kufahamu juu ya Nyerere, sihitaji sifa zake tu abadani sihitaji udhaifu wake pekee bali nahitaji kumfahamu Nyerere zaidi ya yale yaliyoandikwa vitabuni, nataka kumjua kiundani ili mwisho wa siku nifahamu je wanaompinga Nyerere wana hoja za msingi au wanatafuta umaarufu ama kutoka?

    NAWASILISHA
     
  2. C

    CLEMENCY JF-Expert Member

    #2
    Jul 1, 2011
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    Hii yote inaitwa kupoteza lengo. Why Nyerere all over sudden? Wamemkumbuka leo?
    Kinachofanywa sasa hivi ni kile kinachoitwa, driving forward using rear view mirror. Kuna mambo makubwa na magumu mbele yetu ya kuyatatua. Tunaanza kuangalia vijiji vya ujamaa leo? Kwani makosa ya Nyerere ndo yamesababisha Tanesco kupata kwikwi? Ebo
     
  3. Mo-TOWN

    Mo-TOWN JF-Expert Member

    #3
    Jul 1, 2011
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    Hawana hoja ni watu mufilisi upstairs...kwa kufikiria watz na wale wa 40s you divert their attention by telling them any nonsense stuff and they will take.

    Nyerere hakuwa malaika ni wazi kuna sehemu fulani huenda alikosea (tena mind you kama ni hivyo haikuwa kwa makusudi kama leo hii kwenye issue ya umeme) so kwanini hao wanaodai mapungufu ya Nyerere wasiboreshe na kusonga mbele hapo wanapo m-criticise kama hao watu ni objective kweli?
     
  4. Romance

    Romance JF-Expert Member

    #4
    Jul 1, 2011
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    huyo mtu tayari maiti atakosewa nini kichwa cha habari kinatosha hata kusoma post haina mana.
     
  5. KULIKONI UGHAIB

    KULIKONI UGHAIB JF-Expert Member

    #5
    Jul 1, 2011
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    Kwanza, kama ilivyo sio kosa kumpongeza Nyerere,vivyo hivyo si kosa kumkosoa Nyerere.Jitihada kubwa zimeshafanyika kuangalia upande mmoja wa Mwalimu (mazuri yake) huku upande wa pili ukipewa kisogo (mapungufu yake).

    Pili, sidhani kama kuna anayeweza kukupa ufahamu kuhusu Nyerere.Na hata akiwepo,sina hakika kama utaafikiana naye iwapo ufahamu wake utakuwa tofauti na mtizamo wako.Ushauri wangu mdogo tu,fanya jithada hizo wewe mwenyewe kupanua ufahamu wako kuhusu Nyerere,ikiwa pamoja na kujaribu kuangalia pande zote mbili ie mazuri na mapungufu yake.

    Unaweza kuangalia makala yangu kwenye jarida la Raia Mwema la juzi ambapo nimemkosoa Nyerere na kumhusisha na ujenzi wa msingi wa ufisadi wa kiuchumi,kisiasa na kimaadili unaotusumbua hivi sasa. Lakini ili uielewe vema makala hiyo itakulazimu uweke kando ushabiki na kujitahidi kuwa objective,going beyond mtizamo kuwa kumkosoa kiongozi ni kumkosea adabu au sawa na uhaini. Kadhalika, japo Nyerere ni marehemu, legacy yake bado ina impact kubwa katika maisha ya Watanzania.

    Mwisho,na hili ni swali tu: hivi kwa mawazo yako,mtu atapataje umaarufu kwa kumpinga Nyerere?Nimeuliza hivyo kwa kuzingatia ulivyaondika "...nataka kumjua kiundani ili mwisho wa siku nifahamu je wanaompinga Nyerere wana hoja za msingi au wanatafuta umaarufu ama kutoka?".

    Katika lugha,swali la kuhanikiza jibu ie "A au B?" linaweza kutoa picha kuwa muulizaji ana jibu tarajiwa B na swali A limewekwa tu kujenga uwiano wa swali. Kwanini isiwe "...ili mwisho wa siku nipate kupima nguvu na udhaifu wa hoja za wanaompinga Nyerere"?
     
  6. KULIKONI UGHAIB

    KULIKONI UGHAIB JF-Expert Member

    #6
    Jul 1, 2011
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    Kwanini tumkosoe Kikwete ilhali naye sio Malaika just like Nyerere?Si kwamba namuunga mkono JK,bali hapa najenga hoja.Pili,unaposema huenda akuna mahali alikosea,hiyo HUENDA inaashiria huna hata hakika kama aliwahi kukosea au la,lakini mwishoni unahitimisha kuwa HAIKUWA MAKUSUDI.How did you know?

    Hivi,Nyerere hakutambua kuwa amezungukwa na mbwa mwitu walio kwenye ngozi ya kondoo (eg akina Kingunge)?Hivi Nyerere alipokuwa anatoa adhabu za kuwapa watu ubalozi wanapoboronga hakuwa analea matatizo ambayo leo hii yametuzalishia viongozi wa ajabu kabisa in the form of Kikwete au watangulizi wake Mkapa na Mwinyi?Hudhani kuwa kwa kukumbatia uongozi kama privilege kwa wateule wachache,Nyerere ametuachia CCM inayoamini kuwa uongozi ni u-mUngu mtu kwa wateule wachache hao na si utumishi kwa umma.

    Of course,ametufanyia mengi mazuri.Lakini hiyo sio sababu asikosolewe pale alipokosea.Na kumkosoa si dhambi,anyway.
     
  7. RAJ PATEL JR

    RAJ PATEL JR JF-Expert Member

    #7
    Jul 1, 2011
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    I hope Mzee Mwanakijiji will read this thread and come up with his reaction to this claim of critisizing JKN. I've always had so much respect for Mwanakijiji and his political views and analysis regardless whether I do agree with him or not. Mzee Mwanakijiji, I need to hear from you on this
     
  8. Juma Contena

    Juma Contena JF-Expert Member

    #8
    Jul 1, 2011
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    umekosea swali ungeuliza wanao mtetea wana hoja au viroja?

    fact tafuta thread moja yenye kiji documentary cha nyerere utajua kwanini wanaomkosoa wanahoja.

    Nyerere kauliza what is the government cabinet (meaning good governance)? akajibu viongozi wa juu wanaelewa maana yake, walimu chuo kikuu wanaelewa maana yake, lakini sina uhakika kama wananchi wanaelewa. Hapo nakubaliana nae kabisa, kwa sababu mwenye kuelewa kazi za serikali na siasa awezi sifia serikali ya nyerere hata siku moja.

    Nyerere kakubali nationalisation ilifanywa kiola olela na matokeo yake kuuwa a large part of the agriculture and industrial in some part. Kwa sababu ni mtu asiye na fikira yeye alijua kuchukua akujua kuendeleza. Leo wafuasi wa nyerere ndio wanao lilia socialism (it clarifies wana matatizo iwapo mwalimu mwenyewe alijua ni problem).

    Juu ya makosa mengi lakini alikuwa ni mtu sahihi kuishika nchi hii baada ya uhuru ana mema na ya muhimu kwenye jamii aliyoya fanya ambayo ni yeye pekee alitakiwa aiweke hiyo misingi, vinginevyo leo tungekuwa na matatizo mengi zaidi ya ufisadi. Ingawa wapo wengi wenye ajenda ya kuaribu misingi hiyo hiyo alioitengeneza kwa kupitia jina lake na kujifanya wafuasi wake.
     
  9. njiwa

    njiwa JF-Expert Member

    #9
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    nyerere aliona wivu maendeleo ya miji ya pwani hasa tanga, akawaondoa kwenye kumbukumbu ya historia wazee wetu wa pwani .. nyerere ana mazuri yake lakini ana mabaya yake mengi na mazito sana..
     
  10. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #10
    Jul 1, 2011
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    jamani hakuna jipya hapa; madai yote mawili yanayotolewa dhidi ya Nyerere hana ya ukweli:

    a. Upande wa Pili wa Nyerere (mapungufu) yameandikwa kwa kirefu kuanzia miaka ya sitini. Hakuna kiongozi wa Tanzania aliyekosolewa na kubainishwa mapungufu yake ya kisera na kiuongozi kama Nyerere. None.

    b. Nyerere hakufanya makosa; hakuna mtetezi yeyote wa Nyerere mwenye akili timamu ambaye amewahi kudai kuwa Nyerere hakufanya makosa. Hata yeye mwenyewe hakuwahi kudai kuwa hajakosea (ushahidi umewekwa hapa wa kutosha) na siyo leo tu, ndiye kiongozi pekee wa TAnzania aliyeandika kitu kinachoitwa "Tujisahihishe" wakati mwingine natamani niiweke hapa ili watu wajue kuwa Nyerere hakuwa na mashaka na kukosolewa wala kujikosoa as a leader!

    So.. hizi myths za kuwa Nyerere hakupenda kukosolewa au Nyerere alitukuzwa sana hazina msingi katika historia.
     
  11. KULIKONI UGHAIB

    KULIKONI UGHAIB JF-Expert Member

    #11
    Jul 1, 2011
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    Naomba kutofautiana nawe kuhusu hicho kipengele A.Hizo criticism za Nyerere zilifanywa zaidi nje ya Tanzania ilhali ikibinywa Watanzania wasizisikie.Na waliodiriki kumkosoa bayana,they lived to regret.Hadi Nyerere anaondoka madarakani,sio tu ilitafsiriwa matusi makubwa kumkosoa bali pia hakukuwa na jukwaa la kufanya hivyo.Kwa bahati mbaya au makusudi,hadi leo "imani" hiyo bado ni hai miongoni mwa wengi-kama anavyotuthibitishia Bwana Kambota- kuwa kumkosoa Nyerere ni kama kumkosoa Mungu au Mitume wake.

    Labda pengine katika kuthibitisha hoja yako kuwa "hizo myths kuwa Nyerere hakupenda kukosolewa au Nyerere alitukuzwa sana hazina msingi katika historia" ungeweza kutusaidia kwa kutupa mifano hai (na ya msingi) ya internal criticisms kwa Nyerere wakati wa utawala wake.

    Na japo myths (ambazo kwa mtizamo wetu wengine ni facts) zinaweza kuwa HAZINA MSINGI haimaanishi kuwa HAZINA MAANA (ie kisicho na msingi kwa fulani sio lazima kisiwe na maana kwa mwengine)

    Halfu hoja ya uchokozi tu: binafsi naamini tatizo la maendeleo ya Afrika halijawahi kuwa katika MANENO MATAMU (ikiwa ni pamoja na KUKIRI MAPUNGUFU japo kwa nadra).Je,na hii ni hoja isiyo na msingi sana,hudhani kuwa kuandika kitabu TUJISAHIHISHE ilhali Nyerere mwenyewe hakujisahihisha hata pale alipoona amekosea,sio mbinu ya kusambaza mapungufu yake binafsi ili yaonekane ni ya wengi na si mtu mmoja?

    Na je kushindwa kufanikiwa kwa Ujamaa (ambao naamini ni mfumo bora lakini ulifeli katika utekelezaji) hakuwezi kutafsiriwa kama miongoni mwa failures za Nyerere?Na katika same line of thinking,wananaoamini kuwa kung'atuka kwa Nyerere 1995 kulipaswa kuendana na public apology kwa Watanzania (hususan wale waliohamishwa kwa nguvu kupelekw sehemu zisizofaa kwa uzalishaji mali baada ya kuporwa their only means of production) nao hawana hoja ya msingi?
     
  12. J

    JokaKuu Platinum Member

    #12
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    ..wengine wameamua kupotosha na kumchafua kwa makusudi.
     
  13. The Boss

    The Boss JF-Expert Member

    #13
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    Namsubiri engineer bukuku hapa
     
  14. K

    KAMBOTA Senior Member

    #14
    Jul 1, 2011
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    Kwanza kabisa naomba niweke wazi kuwa wengi wa wakosoaji wa viongozi wenye majina makubwa Tanzania ni watu wanaosaka umaarufu ingawaje nakubali kuwa wapo kweli wanaokosoa kwaajili ya kujenga taifa hivyo sio kila amkosoaye Nyerere ana hoja bali wengine wanataka umaarufu ingawa pia sishawishiki kuwa wakosoaji wa Nyerere wanafanya hivyo kwa maslahi ya taifa.

    Kuhusu Nyerere kukosolewa hilo sina tatizo nalo ila mpaka leo hii hakuna hata kiumbe mmoja wa Tanzania hii aliyekuja na hoja mbadala ambazo zimezaa matunda nadhani wote mashahidi wa jinsi ubinafsishaji unavyoliuza taifa letu.

    Mwalimu alitaja maadui watatu ujinga, maradhi na umasikini lakini miaka hamsini baada ya uhuru hakuna aliyepinga hili kwa hoja kuwa hawa ndiyo maadui wetu na mwishowe kinachonitia hofu ni jinsi wakosoaji hawa walivyoibuka kwa wingi baada ya Nyerere kufa, je walikuwa wanamwogopa? kwa maana aliacha urais tangu 1985 lakini hata 1995 wakati wa uchaguzi mkuu wa kwanza wa vyama vingi hawakumkosoa kiasi hiki ingawaje alishiriki kwenye kumpigia kampeni Benjamin Mkapa, hofu yangu ni kuwa tayari kuna fununu kuwa Nyerere anachafuliwa kwa makusudi tu.
     
  15. RAJ PATEL JR

    RAJ PATEL JR JF-Expert Member

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    The Boss, please help me to understand when and why people are referred to as "Engineer...so and so".
    I've heard and am aware of the titles or prefixes like Sir, Dr. Prof. Ambassador etc, but not engineer Ahamedinajad or Engineer Mark Mwandosya....What's gonna be next, Journalist Ulimwengu? Entomologist Kweka, Geologist Mbise, Sociologist Mkwasa, Hair Stylist Mwajuma, Barber Hassani or Accountant Hussein?????
     
  16. J

    Jasusi JF-Expert Member

    #16
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    Yeah, and Businessman Raj Patel. It sounds good.
     
  17. RAJ PATEL JR

    RAJ PATEL JR JF-Expert Member

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    Never heard a businessman is being referred with the prefix or title like Businessman Donald Trump or Businessman Mustafa Sabodo
     
  18. J

    Jasusi JF-Expert Member

    #18
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    Now you have!
     
  19. J

    Jasho la Damu JF-Expert Member

    #19
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    Truth is the daughter of Time. Hata kama tutatumia nguvu nyingi kiasi gani kumchafua na kumponda J.K Nyerere kwa vigezo tofauti tofauti vyenye maudhui ya udini ndani yake, spirit yake bado itasuta dhamira zetu na kutaka kurudi katika misingi ya utawala bora yenye dhamira ya kumkomboa mtanzania mnyonge. Ikiwa taifa hili halitarejea katika misingi bora ya utawala aliyoiasisi J.K Nyerere basi umaskini utakuwa ni muendelezo wa historia ya vizazi na vizazi. Truth is the daughter of Time.
     
  20. RAJ PATEL JR

    RAJ PATEL JR JF-Expert Member

    #20
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    JKN did a lot of good to this nation in good faith. He loved this country from the bottom of his heart and soul. There's no doubt about that, and no one can dispute or question his genuine love for his country. Just like any president in this world, JKN, as a good leader as he was, his administration is subjected to scrutiny. Yes, he had his share of flaws and weaknesses, but all in all, everything he tried to do for this country, he did so in good faith.
    One of the differences that qualifies him to be in a unique category of his own, unlike all current and past African or leaders of the third world, is the fact that he never stole even a penny, voluntarily stepped down, and last but not least, he apologized for any shortcomings and flaws that his political and economic policies might have caused!!
    I just disagree when some people and institutions dare elevate him to the sainthood. No
     
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