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Vifo vya Comoro na Darfur: Hivi JWTZ wanafundishwa kuogelea??

Discussion in 'Habari na Hoja mchanganyiko' started by JokaKuu, Sep 7, 2012.

  1. J

    JokaKuu Platinum Member

    #1
    Sep 7, 2012
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    ..Comoro tulipoteza askari mmoja.

    ..tena hata mwili wake haukupatikana.

    ..sasa Darfur nako tumepoteza askari wengine.

    ..kwa mtizamo wangu matukio haya yamelitia doa jeshi letu.

    ..ingekuwa tumepoteza askari hao ktk MAPAMBANO vifo hivi vingeeleweka.

    ..tatizo ni kwamba Comoro, na Darfur, wanasema ni matukio ya ajali.

    ..jambo lingine linalokera ni kitendo chetu cha kushindwa kuurejesha mwili wa askari aliyefariki Comoro.

    ..kwa majeshi ya wenzetu wanamsemo wao, "Every soldier must come home."

    ..hivi askari wetu wote waliofariki nchi za nje, miili yao imerejeshwa nyumbani na kuzikwa kwa heshima
    wanazostahili??
     
  2. m

    macinkus JF-Expert Member

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    hawajui kuogelea ndio tatizo.

    macinkus
     
  3. L

    LIpili Member

    #3
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    Hawajui kuogelea! Sasa huko ziwa nyasa si watakwisha wote
     
  4. k

    kwitega Senior Member

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    Mimi sisemi kama wanajua kuogelea au la. Hivi nani anauhakika kuwa askari wetu hao wamekufa kwa ajali ya maji kama ilivyosemwa? Wakati mwingine askari anaweza kufa katika mapambano na adui, kwa sababu ambazo jeshio linazifahamu; linaweza lisiseme chanzo sahihi cha kifo cha askari husika. Lakini pia hata kama askari wetu wanajua kuogelea; kifo kama kimefika huwezi kukizuia hata kama uwe bingwa uliyebobea katika masuala ya kujiokoa.
     
  5. k

    katalina JF-Expert Member

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    Daktari wa binadamu amefundishwa kutibu binadamu wenzake lakini hata yeye hufa, kujua au kutojua kuogelea siyo sababu!
     
  6. Ndahani

    Ndahani JF-Expert Member

    #6
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    I thought those were marine comandos...how come they do not learn how to swim? By the way there is naval comand in operations...wale waliozama zenj askari wetu walihusika kwa lolote? Kama sivyo basi that is a wake up call
     
  7. Ndahani

    Ndahani JF-Expert Member

    #7
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    Angalizo: Maji yanachezewa yakiwa kwenye mtungi au ndoo...huko kwingine yanaweza kuleta balaa kubwa.....
     
  8. Kigogo

    Kigogo JF-Expert Member

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    Na mavitambi yale wataogeleaje..hovyo kabisa
     
  9. Nyenyere

    Nyenyere JF-Expert Member

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    Hivi ni kweli kwamba wote wanaojua kuogelea hawafi maji? Ok, hata kama wanajua kuogelea je, wanamafunzo ya kuogelea kwenye mto mkubwa unaokwenda kasi? Wewe umeambiwa gari (zito la kijeshi) walilokuwamo lilisombwa na maji, unafikiri ni maji ya kawaida? Hebu wacha assumption zisizo na msingi watu waomboleze kwa amani.
     
  10. Rogie

    Rogie JF-Expert Member

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    Bora ww umeliona hili. Halafu mtu anajiita GT, anashindwa ht kureason kitu km hiki.. hakuna lolote
     
  11. Sabayi

    Sabayi JF-Expert Member

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    Unajua kwenye lile gari kulikuwa na askari wangapi? unajua ni wangapi walio ruka na kuogelea na kutoka salama?
     
  12. J

    JokaKuu Platinum Member

    #12
    Sep 8, 2012
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    Nyenyere, Rogie, Sabayi,


    ..we need to know kama askari waliofariki wanajua kuogelea.

    ..baada ya hilo then tunaweza kuangalia scenarion hizo ulizoziweka.

    ..zaidi, binadamu wana akili wakati gari(zito la kijeshi) halina. kwa hiyo usihalishe vifo vya askari wetu kwasababu tu "gari zito la kijeshi" lilisombwa na maji.

    ..kwa kifupi tunahitaji taarifa kamili kuhusu tukio hili. haijalishi kama amefariki askari mmoja, watatu, au hata zaidi.

    ..kama wengine walisalimika, je juhudi gani zilifanyika kuwaokoa wenzao waliokuwa ktk hatari??

    ..sisi wengine tunataka askari wetu wote warudi wazima, na ikitokea bahati mbaya baadhi wakafariki, basi miili yao ni lazima irejeshwe na kuzikwa kwa heshima zote.

    ..mwisho, every soldier must come home. kulikoni askari aliyepotea Comoro??
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 4, 2016
  13. gobore

    gobore JF-Expert Member

    #13
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    Hili swala si la kuliangalia kijuu juu tu! Kwa hili la Hawa wa TANZBAT 6 sitaliongelea sana kwasababu kuu mbili!
    ......Moja ni kuwa hii battallion haihusishi wale waliobobea katika maswala ya maji pekee, wapo wanajeshi wa aina tofauti tofauti kutokana na mission mbalimbali, kwahiyo inawezekana wanajua kuogelea ila sio "wataalamu"

    ......Pili ambayo ni sababu kubwa ni kutokana na maelezo waliyoyatoa Jeshi wenyewe pamoja na ushahidi wa survivors, mkumbuke kuawa kuna waliopona katika ajali hiyo, na mmoja wa waliopona ni yule aliyevuka kwa miguu kupima yale maji ndo akawaruhusu wenzake wapite ila spidi iliongezeka ndo Deraya likaenda mrama! Kwahiyo hii ni ajali kabisa! Tunaita kuwepo WRONG place at WRONG time tu.

    ILA katika swala la kule Comoro ni dhahiri kulikua na aina fulani ya uzembe?. Kwanini? Kwanza kabisa aina ya Mission tuliyokwenda kufanya kule ilikua inahitaji wataalam wa kuogelea ama kupiga mbizi! Mkumbuke kuwa yule jamaa alizama mwanzoni kabisa hata mapambano yalikua hayajaanza sasa swala la kujiuliza ni kuwa kama jeshi linakwenda kwenye Amphibious attack halafu mnapoteza mtu wakati wa maandalizi then hapo kuna tatizo linalotakiwa kufanyiwa kazi, na nna uhakika jeshi letu pendwa wamejifunza katika hilo.

    Note!
    Inapoongelewa mwanajeshi anayejua kuogelea msilinganishe na viwango vyenu vya kuogelea kwenye Swiming pool za maHotel, kwahiyo swala la kufa kirahisi lazima maswali magumu yaulizwe.

    Wanajeshi wetu wote wanaokufa kwenye mapambano wanarudishwa Nyumbani pia yule wa Comoro hakuweza kupatikana! Watu wa Pwani tunaita " alimezwa na shetani" Kuna ile kuzama unazama kimoja baharini hauibuki.
     
  14. Sabayi

    Sabayi JF-Expert Member

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    Jokakuu
    Nadhani maelezo ya bwana gobore hapo juu yameweka mambo sawa
    Mazingira ya Darful na Comoro ni tofauti sana,Kifo cha askari wetu kilichotokea Comoro kinapaswa kuchunguzwa na kupigiwa kelele sana kuna uzembe mkubwa sana ulifanyika pale haiwezekani kupeleka askari asiyekuwa mtaalamu wa kuogelea kwenye mission iliyo husisha mapambano kwenye maji ila hii ya Darful hakukuwa na ulazima wa kupeleka askari wa aina hiyo kama ni hivyo basi hata missions za Congo mtataka tupeleke Marines commandos.Hatuwezi kuwabeza hao askari kwa kutojua kuogelea walikuwa trained kwa infantly
     
  15. Nyenyere

    Nyenyere JF-Expert Member

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    Sep 8, 2012
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    nakushangaa sana unapokomalia kuogelea darfur. Hebu analia tena ramani yako! Comoro sizungumzii. Kuhusu mafunzo hebu anza na bunge ulishawishi liongeze budget kuliko kuipunguza kila mwaka. Wa-tz will never stop to amuse me! Mnataka akina Rambo jeshini, wakati bajeti yote imewekwa maeneo yenye "vipaumbele."
     
  16. J

    JokaKuu Platinum Member

    #16
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    gobore,

    ..asante kwa maelezo yako.

    ..ninachopigia kelele mimi ni askari wetu wapatiwe MAFUNZO pamoja na VIFAA.

    ..sasa hapa inaelekea askari wetu hawakupatiwa mafunzo ya kutosha ya kuogelea ktk mazingira hatari.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 4, 2016
  17. gobore

    gobore JF-Expert Member

    #17
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    Ndugu Jokakuu

    Ninachosisitiza mimi ni kuwa jeshi lina watu mbali mbali, na hatuwezi kuwa na jeshi la wataalamu wa kuogelea pekee! Wanajifunza vitu mbalimbali hadi kubobea ila vile vya msingi kama Survivor skills sijui, Driving, kuogelea,mechanics, matumizizi ya silaha wanajifunza wote! Hii ina masna gani basi? Pale ambapo itahitajika ujuzi huo utatumika lakini inapokua extreme ni wazi kuna ambao watashindwa ila kuna ambao wameSpesholaizi hatutegemei washindwe

    Kule Darfur harukupeleka Naval specialists pekee kwahiyo inawezekana waliokufa walijua kuogelea lakini ni ile basic course! Unanielewa?
    Ukisema hawakua na mafunzo ya kutosha swali ni mafunzo gani? Inawezekana kabisa kati ya waliokufa kulikua na "explosive specialist" aliyebobea! Maana yake ni kuwa muda wote wa maisha yake yeye amekua anajifunza milipuko sio mambo ya "amphibious training", kwahiyo usidharau kuwa hawakua na mafunzo au vifaa! Ile ilitoke ajali tena wakati wanavuka mto! Darfur ni jangwa kule! Threats ni zipi? Je wangebeba boti kwenye Deraya ili wakati wa kuvuka watumie boti? Ile ni bahati mbaya jeshini ni kama inabyotokeaga kwenye friendly fire

    Swali ni je vipi kuhusu Comoro?
     
  18. J

    JokaKuu Platinum Member

    #18
    Sep 8, 2012
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    Nyenyere,

    ..askari watatu wamekufa maji, sasa tunapouliza how and why, unataka tuangalie ramani??

    ..unless unaleta madai mapya kwamba vijana wetu walipoteza maisha yao mahali pengine na siyo kwenye MTO.

    ..YES, kuna mito Darfur and I dont need to consult a map to know that.

    ..hivi askari wetu kupewa mafunzo ya kuogelea na kunahitaji ongezeko kiasi gani la bajeti zaidi ya hii tuliyonayo sasa hivi??

    ..kilipotokea kifo cha Comoro baadhi yetu tulihoji lakini tukapuuzwa. sasa limetokea janga lingine Darfur tunataka maelezo nini kilitokea na hatua gani zimechukuliwa.

    ..haiwezekani vijana wetu wajitolee maisha yao kutulinda sisi, halafu tunachakachua mafunzo yao.

    NB:

    ..kama askari wenyewe wanashindwa kuokoana[mfano Comoro] ktk maji, vipi ikitokea ni wananchi ndiyo tunahitaji msaada??
     
  19. gobore

    gobore JF-Expert Member

    #19
    Sep 8, 2012
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    You have raised a good point mkuu, ikumbukwe kuwa jeshi pamoja na mamo mengine ni " Imani", jeshini mobilisation na hii inakwenda pande zote mbili, kwaraia na wapiganaji wenyewe! Kama wameshindwa kuokoana wenyewe je sisi tuko kwenye hali mbaya kiasi gani? Je yanayotokea Nungwi na chumbe kusubiria waokoaji kwa zaidi yamasaa manne kwa umbali ulio pungufu ya NM 45 ni sawa? Sio muendelezo wa comoro? Tusitafute majibu rahisi
     
  20. J

    JokaKuu Platinum Member

    #20
    Sep 8, 2012
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    gobore,

    ..nakubaliana na wewe kwamba basic swimming skills ni kitu cha lazima kwa askari wote.

    ..but i have bad news for u. the basic training our soldiers received was not enough to save them frm drowning.

    ..pia u r raising even more questions. kwa mfano unasema Darfur ni jangwa. well, sasa imetokea kwamba kuna mto, na tena unaoweza kusababisha askari wetu wakazama. je, kuna mtu mzembe huko hakutoa taarifa sahihi kuhusu jiografia ya Darfur??

    ..huwezi kusema tu kuwa ni AJALI. mazingira ya utendaji kazi wa askari ni ya ajali-ajali na majanga. kwa kweli tunahitaji maeleza zaidi, tena yawe ya kina, kabla hatujajiridhisha kwamba hiyo ilikuwa ni bahati mbaya.

    NB:

    ..masuala ya Nungwi na Chumbe tuyaweke kando kwa sasa.

    ..lakini kwa kweli inakera sana. manake wakati wa Mv Bukoba tuliomba msaada wa wazamiaji toka South Africa.

    ..sasa inaelekea hatujifunzi manake mwaka huu tena tumewaomba msaada waje kutusaidi kuopoa maiti, siyo kuokoa watu wasizame.
     
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