Sikusema sijakuelewa. Nilichosema:Najua umenielewa vizuri ila mbwembwe zako tuuu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sikusema sijakuelewa. Nilichosema:
Mmakonde anawaambia Waswahili kwamba kuna Muha anajua sana Kijerumani kwa vile yeye hamuelewi.
Maana yake ni kwamba kati ya wewe Mmakua au Mchaga na audience ya Waswahili na Wanyasa na huyo subject matter Muha wa Kigoma inawezekana hakuna wa kuhukumu nani anajua Kijerumani maana ni lugha ngeni kwao wote. Inawezekana unaona fulani anajua kumbe ni kwa vile wewe ndio hujui, huelewi.
Sikusema sijakuelewa. Nilichosema:
Mmakonde anawaambia Waswahili kwamba kuna Muha anajua sana Kijerumani kwa vile yeye hamuelewi.
Maana yake ni kwamba kati ya wewe Mmakua au Mchaga na audience ya Waswahili na Wanyasa na huyo subject matter Muha wa Kigoma inawezekana hakuna wa kuhukumu nani anajua Kijerumani maana ni lugha ngeni kwao wote. Inawezekana unaona fulani anajua kumbe ni kwa vile wewe ndio hujui, huelewi.
This argument carries within it an inherent flaw in its dilapidated logic kwamba Mmakua/ Mchagga/ Mmakonde hawezi kujua Kijerumani barabara.
As it happens namjua Mmakonde mmoja anajua Kijerumani kupita baadhi ya Wajerumani.
Kwa hiyo the main assumption carryin this argument is fallacious. Labda u qualify vitu further.
Mkuu mimi naona kama unayabeza mawazo yako huru kwa kufikiria ya watu. Kama jamii ya kimataifa inamwita mtu "gaidi", kiongozi "dikteta"n.k wana vigezo vyao vya kufanya hivyo, japo si lazima vigezo hivyo viwe vya msingi kwa wengine wenye mawazo huru bila ya maslahi.one thing you are forgetting ngoda is that iddi amin's tarnished image is not the fault of nyerere. The international community by then already saw him as a dictator. So the question is that don't you believe the fact that he committed crimes against humanity?
Mfano, wakati tokyo sexwale, anakuwa waziri wa afrika kusini huru, wakati fulani alitaka kwenda marekani kikazi, wamerekani walimkatalia kuingia nchi yao kwa kuwa sheria zao (wanazozijuwa wao) wanamjuwa sexwale na viongozi wengine waandamizi wa anc mpaka wakati huo kama "magaidi". Kwa maoni yako huru mkuu ungekubali kuwa anc kilikuwa ni chama cha kigaidi kwa kuwa boers na marafiki zao (marekani) walisema hivyo? Why should the same example not applied to amin?
Ndiyo hapa ninapokuwa na-doubt kama kweli nyerere alikuwa na sababu nyingene zaidi ya ubarakala kuanzisha vita na uganda!
Mkuu hapa sina hakika kama unataarifa zaidi ya ulizopata shule katika kadhia hii. Ujuwe kuwa wakati amin anadaiwa kuvamia tanzania, na nyerere anatangaza vita majeshi ya amini yalikuwa tayari yesharudi nchini kwao uganda, hivyo mipaka ya tanzania ilikuwa salama wakati huo, yaliyobaki yalikuwa ya nyerere rohoni mwake zidi ya amin. Hakukuwa na haja ya kuanzisha vita wakati kinachoitwa uvamizi hakikuwapo tena,yaani kitisho kilishaondoka...ni sawa na mahakama kutoa hukumu ya mtuhumiwa wa uhalifu aliyekwishafariki.a second point is that tanzania did not just out of know where invade uganda. It is a known fact that iddi amin wanted to occupy the land bordering tanzania and uganda. The most sacred job of any president is to defend the borders of his country. You being a tanzanian don't you believe in protecting our land?
Mkuu, kuna watu viongozi wa juu bado wapo wakati wa kadhia ile ilipotokea, hawafichi kusema kuwa hakukua na haja ya vita vile kwa kuwa mara nyingi amin alimuonya nyerere kuchukuwa hatua zidi ya makundi ya upinzani ya serikali yake yanayoshambulia uganda kutokea mipaka ya tanzania.
Nyerere, kwakuwa aliwaunga mkono waasi hao na kuwapa silaha na mafunzo ndani ya jwtz(kumbuka obote alipopinduliwa alikimbilia tanzania na kikundi chake tiifu) hakujali, aliendelea kupokea taarifa za uwongo kutoka kwa bregedia yussuf himid (baba yake mansour yussuf himid waziri wa nishati smz) na kwa roho ya kisasi akazieneza taarifa hizo kuwa nchi yetu "imevamiwa..na nduli idd amin..tumpigeni...sababu, nia na uwezo tunao..." wakati hali hakuwa hivyo nchi haikuwa hatarini hata kidogo kuwa ndiyo pawe na sababu ya kufanya vita vya kupoteza roho na mali...tokea pale mpaka leo tanzania haijainuka tena.
I wonder why Tanzanian's don't like to think beyond the borders of propaganda. I quoted Museveni's words aiming to show how the plan went through. After all, your suggestion that we should forget Nyerere when considering the killing Idd Amin did is quite wrong. There is a connection on the issue as I shall explain later below.Mkuu Junius unaongea kana kwamba historia yote ya Iddi Amin ni kuhusu uhasama kati ya yeye na Nyerere. Kumbuka kwamba sifa mbaya ya Iddi Amin haitokani na ugomvi kati ya Nyerere na Amin. Aidha kama ugomvi kati yao unge kuwepo au la muonekano wa Amin usinge badilika. Kwa hiyo tumuondoe kwanza Nyerere kwenye mjadala. Swali kwako mkuu Junius ni je Iddi Amin aliua au la? Na naomba usikimbilie kusema lakini fulani na fulani nao waliua kwa sababu dhambi ya mwingine haiwezi kukosha dhambi ya mwingine. Je Iddi Amin aliua au la? Tuanzie mjadala hapo.
... I agree with Mbeki when he was so disappointed seeing all the history books on Africa are written by the westerners despite having many African history professors. [/FONT]
My point is, if we really need to know the fact on Uganda/Tanzania war then the book must be written by Tanzanian (neutral person, not a politician) or Ugandan, If possible a soldier.
I have two scenarios in my mind on Nyerere's plan.
1. Coup to topple Amin. I believe that most of the coup to oust Amin from the power planned by Nyerere.
2.After failing plan number one that could be cost less, he planned a total war. However in order to keep himself clean, he sent small group of soldiers to Uganda knowing that Idd Amin will reply and even occupying Tanzania's land. He succeeded! Then after it was just easy running throughout Africa, and seeking condemnation.
Really? All history books on Africa are written by westerners? Mbeki supposedly said that?! A cursory look at Amazon suggests otherwise but I digress, anyway here is an excerpt from an essay by Major General Lupogo, a soldier, albeit retired now, as per your wish:
The war between Tanzania and Uganda started in October 1978 when Amin sent troops, who were still loyal to him, after mutineers, some of whom had fled to Tanzania. Amin accused Nyerere of being at the root of his troubles and of waging war against Uganda. With the hope of diverting attention from his internal troubles. Amin invaded Tanzanian territory on 1 November 1978 and formally annexed a section across the Kagera river boundary. Nyerere mobilised his army and counterattacked. In April 1979, Tanzania took Kampala and Amin fled the country.
The rest of the essay is here: Tanzania: African Security Review Vol 10 No 1
Mkuu Junius unaongea kana kwamba historia yote ya Iddi Amin ni kuhusu uhasama kati ya yeye na Nyerere. Kumbuka kwamba sifa mbaya ya Iddi Amin haitokani na ugomvi kati ya Nyerere na Amin.
Ni wewe uliyemtaja Nyerere kuwa hakuwa na makosa kwa sifa mbaya za Idd Amini, labda nikuulize...neno "nduli" lilikujaje Tanzania wakati Amini alikuwa na hamsini zake Uganda?
Aidha kama ugomvi kati yao unge kuwepo au la muonekano wa Amin usinge badilika. Kwa hiyo tumuondoe kwanza Nyerere kwenye mjadala. Swali kwako mkuu Junius ni je Iddi Amin aliua au la? Na naomba usikimbilie kusema lakini fulani na fulani nao waliua kwa sababu dhambi ya mwingine haiwezi kukosha dhambi ya mwingine. Je Iddi Amin aliua au la? Tuanzie mjadala hapo.
Mkuu historia haisomwi hivyo, waingereza wanatamani historia ya biashara ya utumwa ianze kusomwa kuanzia 'kuvunjwa kwa biashara ya utumwa' na si washiriki wa biashara hiyo,ambayo wao walikuwa vinara wake. Huwezi kuongea anguko na sifa mbaya na poropaganda chafu anazopakaziwa Amin, kwa hapa kwetu bila ya kumtaja Nyerere, ndiye aliyekwambieni kuwa Idd Amin mbaya, au sivyo mkuu?
Kauwa au hakuuwa, mimi sijuwi unakusudia nini, kama unavyotaka kuuwa ni sifa mbaya ya kiongozi ,sioni haja ya wewe kukimbilia ionekane kuwa kuuwa kwa Amini kulikuwa kubaya zaidi kuliko kiongozi mwingine yoyote yule, mpaka ionekane so unique for Amin!!!
Thank you for a useful link but it doesnt cover a lot about the Kagera war. Rather, it narrates the 1964 Army mutiny.
Kiongozi mwenye mapenzi na nchi yake angeua 500,000 ya raia wake, wengi wao wasio na hatia ?
Unajua Idi Amin aliua watu kutoka katika kila nyanja ya maisha ya watu wa Uganda? Kuanzia jeshini, makanisani mpaka vilema? Huyu ndiye kiongozi anayepend nchi yake huyu ?