Inconvenience of Truth!!!

Why would ones presidential campaign be quitely infused with demands for shariah law, Is raila trying to vouche for muslim rights or is he using them as a vehicle to ascend to power. Why won't shariah law and benefits be discussed openely on a table, why does it have to be sneaked in if it is that good?

Opposing ethnic distinctions and creating religious distinctions as before, which one is good or better than the other it is this Kigeugeu nature I believe has and will always leave a bad taste in the mouth of those he is giving promises. Was the creation of MRC and MYC and their course a metamorphosis of the initial failed campaign.

here
here
here
here
here

^^^^ So you actually believe Raila is a radical Muslim socialist Muslim terrorist Muslim who aims to fly the flag of Al-Qaeda above state house Nairobi and that the 2007/2008 PEV was a Muslim terrorist socialist Muslim Luo Muslim genocide against good Christian capitalists?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Ok, who's hacked Kabaridi's account? Mods?

And that's exactly the 'inconvenience of truth' I guess, kshaka

No hacking of whichever kind, just a guy thinking aloud -- and in the process, 'incommoding' some.

=> kshaka,

Nobody has hacked my A/C, I am my own I speak openly and plainly. As I have always disclaimed b4 that this post is not an attack to any community. But attempts to unearth the real chief architects of PEV is intentionally left abstruse. Justice for over 1250 people who died in the 08 PEV is burdened on two people. It is imperative to note that from a legal/judicial point of view this is ridiculous, but from a political point of view it might make sense. No one opposes the Hague based process in Kenya, as recently showcased by its near fanatical introduction as a legal process in Kenya by a cross-section of members of parliament.

It isn't true the ICC co-accused duo "unintelligently" fell in their own snare (of don't be vague say Hague). Instead a cross-section of politicians secretly drumming for cultural change have "unintelligently" marred the integrity of the Hague based process by making it a self-serving bargaining chip/ inducing mechanism instead of letting its legal process act as a fountain of justice to the hoi polloi directly caught in the crossfire. Is the proposed ICD going to be fashioned after the Hague based process?; Are they going to uphold the rule-of-law, or will "trickery" as a variable be the norm?

The Kenyan justice system has ceased to be driven by a mainstream legal professional judicial outfit and is converted to be run by a componentized "politically aware" judicial outfit. This leaves the future of the Kenyan justice system and judicial/legal process hanging in the balance as the real architects of the kenyan PEV remain hedged between a reverse-anthropomorphism dawning unawares within the judiciary; that in future those that create chaos shall always escape justice and accountability.

One might be fooled to think that ethnic struggles are at play here. On the contrary, Ethnic struggles are not the real conflicts here, this is a generational struggle of the young aspiring and dynamic youth sprouting to get to positions of responsibility vis-a-vis an "old order" that wants to literally stick like glue in positions of responsibility to the point to using the Hague process to slow this fast-changing phenomena, which I tell you is impossible.

just because you say something is a certain way does not make it so. none of the statements you've made above are based on any facts as far as I can see, we are not just going to believe it because you say so. Show us the hows, whys, and where...and then we can talk!

Gurta said:

And that's exactly the 'inconvenience of truth' I guess, kshaka

No hacking of whichever kind, just a guy thinking aloud -- and in the process, 'incommoding' some.

Click to expand...

The hatred exhibited by some of my countrymen against a certain Raila Amolo Odinga is inexplicable to me..I mean, you don't have to like the man but when normally sane and rational people start peddling tales that anyone who's spent more than two minutes in kenya can debunk, it begins to look like it's more than just political disagreement. There is something else going on here.

> kshaka

I have never understood why this "hate" mantra keeps emerging when the real issues are articulated. or how do things work in a democracy?! may I ask

I think huyu kabaridi keshazeeka, even his articulation of issues is quite old-fashioned. not forgetting there is a group of people that are against sweeping change, but historically, change has never been wished away.

Kabaridi said:

> kshaka

I have never understood why this "hate" mantra keeps emerging when the real issues are articulated. or how do things work in a democracy?! may I ask

Click to expand...

I'm sorry but there's no "real issues" you've articulated here. As I said, you do not have to like Raila and not liking him should not be held against you, however, the tack you have taken is a bit strange (to put it nicely) and it does not have any relationship to reality at all and that's probably why you've avoided the question I asked in my first reply.

kshaka said:

I'm sorry but there's no "real issues" you've articulated here. As I said, you do not have to like Raila and not liking him should not be held against you, however, the tack you have taken is a bit strange (to put it nicely) and it does not have any relationship to reality at all and that's probably why you've avoided the question I asked in my first reply.

Click to expand...

These issues and accounts may not have representation through media coverage, or even those enjoying elite status within the political apex may not be willing to testify in a attempt to save their careers. But subverted or misplaced justice means more skillful incubation of future oppression can reach a point where it is irreversible. This scenario is a bad "fruit" that those implementing the new constitution have failed to dispel to the public whether it was one of the joyous fruits the citizens would reap

I have no intention of carrying on with this conversation so....as you were!

P.S; remember, you are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts!

kshaka said:

The hatred exhibited by some of my countrymen against a certain Raila Amolo Odinga is inexplicable to me..I mean, you don't have to like the man but when normally sane and rational people start peddling tales that anyone who's spent more than two minutes in kenya can debunk, it begins to look like it's more than just political disagreement. There is something else going on here.

Click to expand...

Where is hatred in his posts? You should as well have brought those contrary facts here and prove to him here that his conspiracy theories are just that, theories.

Kabaridi,

its with a close scrutiny of your script writing techniques that one deduces your hate if not outright attack to Raila. Whether intentional or subconscious doing, the attitude manifest with ease. Hey, we all Kenyans though....any political bikering about the hague bound wont lessen my fair share of meal per se. However, its always pertinent to remind u the genesis of this quagmire, LETS GO TO HAGUE, DONT BE VAGUE. The few singled out masterminds thought they were safe; denied a local tribunal, not once but twice flat out(who is to blame for that?). Didnt the political class call this upon themselves?

Fast forward to opening of the bahasha and the new song comes into play, bring the cases back home, Kenya is an independent state, we never okayed the hague proceedings, we have a reformed judicial process bla bla bla.
such flimsy, selfish and innuendo talk doesnt win my empathy. Why do they want the cases back? "Referring to politicians," they can get it where they deemed fit.

After failing to secure the return of the cases, a new plot was orchastrated, one full of malice and propaganda. That Raila is a western puppet..bla bla bla bla, no offence, the guy lacks brains when it comes to national security "Kibaki is worse" but that what u call him he doesnt meet the threshold....he earns my vote anyday, any season so long as we have killers up there.

Btw the other criminal is "supposedly" as assumed to be a hard drugs addict. Am surprised the son of the lake is being labeled a terrorist here.

Dhuks said:

Where is hatred in his posts? You should as well have brought those contrary facts here and prove to him here that his conspiracy theories are just that, theories.

Click to expand...

What would you call it when people start peddling outright incendiary and malicious falsehoods about a person? Incidentally, my opinion would remain the same if this were being aimed at Uhuru or Ruto, as it did about Raila's crew when the ODM group were peddling quite hurtful and malicious rumours about Mudavadi in 2002, some of you guys however...

P.S. there are some things you don't even bother refuting because doing that actually gives it legs...like the narrative that Obama is a secret communist Muslim (antichrist) who was born in kenya and intends to destroy America, a narrative, coincidentally(?), which is peddled by the very same people that Kabaridi is using to bolster his own little narrative.

P.P.S. I also find it extremely prejudicial, not to mention hyperbolic, the narrative peddled by some on the ODM side that Uhuruto were planning genocide. I don't think they did anything of the sort but when it comes ti this ICC business, ni ule wahenga waliuita mwiba wa kujidunga (DON'T BE VAGUE...remember) no sympathy!

livefire said:

Kabaridi, its with a close scrutiny of your script writing techniques that one deduces your hate if not outright attack to Raila. Whether intentional or subconscious doing, the attitude manifest with ease. Hey, we all Kenyans though....any political bikering about the hague bound wont lessen my fair share of meal per se. However, its always pertinent to remind u the genesis of this quagmire, LETS GO TO HAGUE, DONT BE VAGUE. The few singled out masterminds thought they were safe; denied a local tribunal, not once but twice flat out(who is to blame for that?). Didnt the political class call this upon themselves?
Fast forward to opening of the bahasha and the new song comes into play, bring the cases back home, Kenya is an independent state, we never okayed the hague proceedings, we have a reformed judicial process bla bla bla.
such flimsy, selfish and innuendo talk doesnt win my empathy. Why do they want the cases back? "Referring to politicians," they can get it where they deemed fit.
After failing to secure the return of the cases, a new plot was orchastrated, one full of malice and propaganda. That Raila is a western puppet..bla bla bla bla, no offence, the guy lacks brains when it comes to national security "Kibaki is worse" but that what u call him he doesnt meet the threshold....he earns my vote anyday, any season so long as we have killers up there. Btw the other criminal is "supposedly" as assumed to be a hard drugs addict. Am surprised the son of the lake is being labeled a terrorist here.

Click to expand...

I hated the politicians for clamouring for the cases to be taken to Hague and i still hate the fact that the hague is prosecuting kenyan cases. We should have resorted to a system like the one used by the Rwandese because lets face it even if all the four suspects with cases at the Hague are hanged little will change on the ground and yet those are the neighbours who turned against neighbours to kill,maim, burn their property.
I agree with you that Kibaki is worse when it comes to security or lack of it but disagree on the point that Raila is not a western puppet, he doesnt believe in his fellow Kenyans and instead of trying to fix where we have problems as Kenyans he is quick to look for solutions from out. As president i think he will be a carbon copy of J.K

^^ so now it's Raila who is using The Hague for his own interests?? You guys just amaze me (or is it that you have very very short memories?). Raila and Kibaki were against The Hague cases from the very beginning and wanted to form a local tribunal and they were vociferously opposed in this by...*drumroll*....Ruto and his acolytes. They even had a slogan they were using up and down the country in public rallies to pressurise for The Hague process; "don't be vague, go for Hague", remember? How did they turn it around now that people like you can blame Raila with a straight face? This, in a nutshell, is what is wrong with kenya. A politician can say white is black and up is down and people like you disengage their faculties and accept everything they say because "ni mtu wetu"! How can you parrot such an open and clear lie as if you were not there when all this was happening?

You don't even have to be a Raila supporter to know that this is bullshit!

I think if you learnt to read before passing judgement and invoking your fanatism you would make more rational arguments. Where did i mention Raila on the Hague issue?

Dhuks said:

Where is hatred in his posts? You should as well have brought those contrary facts here and prove to him here that his conspiracy theories are just that, theories.

Click to expand...

It ought to be the other way round. The onus is on the individual that made the first proclamation. Not on everyone else to debunk whatever he spews. Affirming the contrary is a fallacy and failure to prove those statements is evidence enough of deep seated hatred that kshaka refers to.

Dhuks said:

I hated the politicians for clamouring for the cases to be taken to Hague and i still hate the fact that the hague is prosecuting kenyan cases. We should have resorted to a system like the one used by the Rwandese because lets face it even if all the four suspects with cases at the Hague are hanged little will change on the ground and yet those are the neighbours who turned against neighbours to kill,maim, burn their property.
I agree with you that Kibaki is worse when it comes to security or lack of it but disagree on the point that Raila is not a western puppet, he doesnt believe in his fellow Kenyans and instead of trying to fix where we have problems as Kenyans he is quick to look for solutions from out. As president i think he will be a carbon copy of J.K

Click to expand...

Which politicians are you declaring your hatred for? It was Uhuru Kenyatta, Ruto and company that coined the mantra "Dont be Vague, say Hague" and when they realized the judges in the Netherlands were not for hire they attacked their own positions and pointed an accusing finger at RAO.

You speak with equivocation, aren't the Western puppets-that seek solutions for "our" problems(PEV) elsewhere(Hague)- that you mention the ones that you began by declaring your hatred of?

If I may ask, where is the proof/ instances of the puppetry that you allude to?

It is ludicrous! We can not deny the deep seated hatred and propensity to side with tribe that afflicts us as a nation. When one pours vitriol on any of the protagonists without concrete evidence for those claims it is safe to say that tribalism should be considered or in the case of "The Home of Great Thinkers", a hint of xenophobia.

Mekatilili said:

Which politicians are you declaring your hatred for? It was Uhuru Kenyatta, Ruto and company that coined the mantra "Dont be Vague, say Hague" and when they realized the judges in the Netherlands were not for hire they attacked their own positions and pointed an accusing finger at RAO.

You speak with equivocation, aren't the Western puppets-that seek solutions for "our" problems(PEV) elsewhere(Hague)- that you mention the ones that you began by declaring your hatred of?

If I may ask, where is the proof/ instances of the puppetry that you allude to?

It is ludicrous! We can not deny the deep seated hatred and propensity to side with tribe that afflicts us as a nation. When one pours vitriol on any of the protagonists without concrete evidence for those claims it is safe to say that tribalism should be considered or in the case of "The Home of Great Thinkers", a hint of xenophobia.

Click to expand...

Collectively all those who said dont be vague lets go to the Hague are all recipients of my hatred, problem is that you guys are trying to link my conviction that Raila is a puppet with the Hague issue. On the Hague issue i lay no blame on his door.
My point of departure with him is when he declared his love for a foreign chief justice(after all these years of independence) and the way he cajoles the western diplomats when Kibaki stamps his feet on the ground on their sometimes irrelevant whims.