Fast Tracking EAC Political Federation - a Liability?


.....Not next year,not over 5 yrs...EAST AFRICAN FEDERATION NOW!
 
Koba said:
.....Not next year,not over 5 yrs...EAST AFRICAN FEDERATION NOW!
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That shows that I was right to say you did not know what you were talking about before because this is all you could reply. You could not reply to your "hata kwa viboko" statement neither did you defend when I questions your example about the states "fighting to form a federation". You did not even explain how an event in the US which happened over a century ago applies to East Africa now. Dude the states was already a country then, there does not exist a federation between the EAC members yet. Hautoi hoja yoyote all you are doing is giving short asnswers which prove me right. You are not very bright because you give examples you are not sure of. You are not making any sense right now but then again i'm not shocked. Coming from a person who does not even have his historical facts right it is to be expected. I even dared you to go end check your historical facts then come back but yoy came back with nothing.
 

...you're just a moron and quit assuming anything about me.
 
Koba said:
...you're just a moron and quit assuming anything about me.
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Wow you make a great point for the "federation". I'm a moron who knows more history then you at least. I'm not assuming anything about you unajihisi mwenyewe. Its a forum dude we give points & calling me a moran has not proven any points you made. So yeah i'm a moron. Happy? At least i give reasons for my points but I guess if you fail to argue you start insults HAHAHAHAHA! And they say tanzania's educational system is bad HAHAHAHA!
 
...mwanasalsafa your backward thinking and moronic view of federation is just disgusting,sisi tunaenda mbele na kazi imeanza

EAC to have $156m modern road

2009-04-26
By Adam Ihucha, Arusha

Contractors are undertaking major repositioning of the Arusha-Namanga-Athi River highway, which could go down in history as one of the ambitious projects to be undertaken as the dawn of a common market approaches in the East African Community (EAC) region.

The 240 kilometre-road that provides vital trading link between Tanzania and Kenya has in recent years proved too narrow to handle present traffic and is full of potholes.

Tanzania and Kenya presidents Jakaya Kikwete and Mwai Kibaki respectively are expected to launch its construction phase on Tuesday at Lengijabe village road site, about 20 kilometres on the Arusha-Namanga road.

Rwandan President Paul Kagame, the current Chairman of the EAC Summit, is also expected to grace the occasion. Burundi`s Pierre Nkrunzinza, Uganda`s Yoweri Museveni and Zanzibar`s Amani Abeid Karume are other leaders to attend the ceremony.

Other dignitaries will include EA infrastructure ministers, Reginald Mengi, the Chairman of the East African Business Council and Dr Donald Kaberuka, the President of the African Development Bank (ADB).

Sadako Ogata, the President of the Japan International Cooperation Agency (JICA), ambassadors and high commissioners are also expected to be present on the occasion.

The construction of the project is being co-financed by ADB and JICA with a loan of $156.3m to cover civil works and construction supervision.

ADB is financing Athi River - Namanga section in Kenya with an estimated amount of $93.1m, while JICA is financing the Arusha - Namanga section in Tanzania with a total of $ 63.2 million. Kenya and Tanzania governments are providing counterpart funding of about $8m.

The construction on the Athi River - Namanga section which started in November 2007 is expected to be completed in November 2010.

The Arusha - Namanga section works started in September 2008, and it is expected for completion in July 2011.

The Arusha - Namanga - Athi River road development project is part of the EAC Road Network Project Corridor No. 5 running from Tunduma in Tanzania to Moyale in Kenya and onward to Addis Ababa, Ethiopia.

The designation of five priority corridors is a result of collaborative effort between the EAC partner states and the donors that are active in the region`s transport sector.

The development of this road project will facilitate movement of traffic from Zambia, through Tanzania, Kenya to Ethiopia as well as Uganda and Sudan.

The road will also boost import and export traffic from Mombasa port, which is the more convenient port for northern Tanzania on account of proximity compared with Dar es Salaam.

The highway is also part of the tourist circuit serving the of Amboseli and Tsavo national parks in Kenya and Manyara, Ngorongoro and Kilimanjaro National Park in Tanzania.

The significance of the road as a regional road network is in line with the development priorities of the two governments and ADB`s strategy for support to multinational programmes which enhance regional integration among African states.

The Arusha-Namanga section in Tanzania is 105 kilometres long and traverses flat to rolling terrain, including the Loliondo game controlled area. It was constructed to bitumen standard in 1967.

The road is narrow, about 5.5metres and deformed. Average speed is about 70 km/hr.

The Namanga - Athi River section in Kenya is 135 klometres long in rolling terrain.

Having received recent interventions (re-carpeting in 1995), the section is fairer but is still characterised by potholes.

The section sustains quite heavy loading from the cement manufacturing and building industries in Athi River and Nairobi.

Average speed is about 80 km/hr. Traffic is about 7,000 vehicles per day in Athi River and 1,000 vehicles per day in Namanga. Most of the traffic around Namanga branch off to the Amboseli Game Park.

SOURCE: Sunday Observer
 
Those things are done in coorporation as many projects are done. You think people who are not a federation don't build roads to link each others countries. For your information many countries do things in cooperation with each other without having a federation? Take a look at the EU. They do many projects in conjunction with each other umesikia Ulaya imekuwa au ina plan ya kuwa nchi moja? Your examples don't prove your point simply because cooperation among countries in different projects is not new but does not make them "one" country. You can continue to call me a moran but you are the one who plainly has no idea what the terms "international relations" and "internation cooperations" or "international trade" mean. Countries can do a lot of things together to link themselves together ot loosen up some regulations for the benefit of the partyies involved but it does not mean they are a federation. Whose the moron you say? I think you have lived in a village all your life because it seems its the first time you ever hearn nations working together WITHOUT being one country because the key word is"nations". Have any other point bring it on & we will continue.
 

....Please tell me why you are against federation and how it affects your life. Seriously!
 
Koba said:
....Please tell me why you are against federation and how it affects your life. Seriously!
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Tanzania already has problem with its union government which needs to be worked out. From that experience we have learned the effects of rushing into forming new states & without the consent of the people. I do not have a problem with the federation, the problem is why are some people so eager to rush it? Another issue is that if Tanzania says its not ready for a federation why can't KENYA AND UGANDA FORM THEIR FEDERATION FIRST IF ITS THAT IMPORTANT TO THEM? If they can't form a federation without us that shows that the others need us but instead they make it seem as if we need them. A federation is not a small thing, there must be issued thought of which are more than political & economical. The problem is people do not want to see far & the reason the kenyan & ugandan public wants this federation so bad is because their leaders say so. IF THE KENYAN OR UGANDAN GOVERNMENT WAS NOT PUSHING FOR A FEDERATION SO FAST WOULD KENYANS & UGANDANS WANT TO RUSH A FEDERATION? It seems they are making it into a battle just to become a federation, je tukisha kuwa federation si ndiyo kutakuwa a lot more of Kenyans want this & ugandans want this or Tanzanians want this? Do you really believe people now consider themselves EAST AFRICANS FIRST THEN THEIR INDIVIDUAL COUNTRIES SECOND?
A federation is a good thing but no one in their right mind does anything in a rush especially if the implications will be irreversible. I say maybe in the future but for now we are not ready for a federation.
LASTLY, YOU CAN NOT FORCE A SOVEREIGN COUNTRY TO DO ANYTHING. IF TANZANIANS SAY THEY DON'T WANT A FED THEN THEY DON'T HAVE TO EXPLAIN THEMSELVES. WE ARE A FREE COUNTRY. THIS SHOULD NOT EVEN BE AN ARGUMENT BECAUSE IF SOMEONE DOESN'T WANT SOMETHING YOU SIMPLY CAN'T FORCE THEM. CAN'T KENYA & UGANDA BE A COUNTRY FIRST WITHOUT TANZANIA IF IT IS SO IMPORTANT TO THEM TO BE ONE STATE NOW? OBVIOUSLY THERE IS A REASON THEY NEED TANZANIA THAT IS WHY THEY ARE FORCING TANZANIAN OFFICIALS TO SPEED UP THINGS OTHERWISE THEY WOULD JUST UNITE WITH EACH OTHER. LAKINI WE HERE KENYANS INSULT TANZANIA & TANZANIANS EVERYDAY OVER STUPID THINGS FROM OUR ENGLISH TO OUR ECONOMY & GOVERNMENT. IF ALL YOU SAY ABOUT TANZANIA IS TRUE THEN WHY ARE YOU FORCING US TO JOIN? WE HAVE LEARNED THE LESSONS OF HISTORY WITH OUR UNION WITH ZANZIBAR & WE ARE WORKING ON THEM. IF YOU PEOPLE WANT TO RUSH THINGS & LEARN THE LESSON the HARD WAY THEN BY ALL MEANS GO AHEAD. THIS IS NOT A COUNTRY & A SMALL ISLAND UNITING LIKE TANGANYIKA & ZANZIBAR, THIS IS THREE COUNTRIES & POSSIBLY MORE IF YOU INCLUDE THE NEW MEMBER STATES. IT SEEMS ALL THE EAC COUNTRIES HAVE SUCH BIG EGOS INCLUDING THERE PEOPLE SO IF YOU BELIEVE ALL THIS WILL DISAPPEAR WITH A FEDERATION THEN THE DOOR IS OPEN FOR YOU GUYS TO DO SO.
 
Hi,

I introduced myself already as a Ugandan opposition activist in the Introduction Forum. I could not resist jumping in here. Forgive me if my arguments are very simplistic, am not a subject matter expert, just a hyper political observer/commentator focusing on Uganda. One thing apparent from this thread is the lack of trust of the motives for the Federation and perhaps that may be because we really do not know the motives. What is the overriding motive that has caused a sense of urgency for an East African political union? That motive is certainly top-down since I have not heard any clamour at the grassroots (at least not in Uganda) for a political federation for East Africa. So who is rushing the political federation and why?

An East African native wants to attend market day on either side of the border without a hassle. Do we need a political union for that? Maybe. It would take away the need for a visa and may be there would be less obstacles in building roads and bridges, movement would be easier, markets would be more accessible. So why don't we go ahead and do it - fast?

Look at the main proponents for the rushed political Union and be VERY afraid. We may have a common colonial culture, even common cultures that pre date colonialism, we certainly have a common interest in reaping from economies of scale but we also have very distinct post colonial POLITICAL cultures. I can understand the rush for a stronger economic union but I would be extremely cautious about rushing a political union that brings together a budding Tanzanian democracy, shaky Kenyan democracy and outright Ugandan dictatorship.

But then again, am a Ugandan opposition activist so I may be biased... If I cannot trust Museveni's administration to lead Uganda into the future I certainly would not endorse it to lead discussion of an East African political union any day. Take time to reflect on whether you can deal with opening up to our corruption, nepotism, militarism, without tough preconditions.

I would certainly stand with those who err of the side of caution.

Anne Mugisha
 
But then again, am a Ugandan opposition activist so I may be biased... If I cannot trust Museveni's administration to lead Uganda into the future I certainly would not endorse it to lead discussion of an East African political union any day. Take time to reflect on whether you can deal with opening up to our corruption, nepotism, militarism, without tough preconditions.

I would certainly stand with those who err of the side of caution.

Anne Mugisha[/QUOTE]

Thanks sister Anne you seem like a smart lady. What you have said is what I have been trying to say but people seem to think its unpatriotic to argue the stand points of their governments. Why rush things? Those who are rushing obviously have seen a benefit for themselves so why hate on Tanzanians for waiting to see whats beneficial to them?

E.g Kenya we all no there is tribalism, even some Kenyans in this forum have admitted, so if there is division in a country along tribal lines there will also be we are Kenyans when it comes to East Africa. Kenya wants to rush things because for them(at least the leaders) think as the biggest economy in the EAC(mind you not that much bigger) they think they will dominate the market. Uganda wants tospeed up things because Museveni thinks when we will become one country he will become the president. Why would we want a person who doesn't want to leave office for others as our leaders? We Tanzania also have some issues we have to take care of ourselves before entering another union again. I am not even going to mention the other possible members, Rwanda & Burundi because we know the issues in those two countries.

If we form a federation today we we be inherriting the problems of the other member states too. Don't you think we already have enough problems as it is already? If we enter a federation then it means we can't simply split if it does not work out. There is know trial & erra in a big issue like this one. The possible implications won't be easily resolvable. I love Kenya & Uganda but not all friends must end up in a ommited relationship, whats wrong with just being brothers & sisters as we are now? The problem that people don't understand is that politicians don't always do whats best for the people. Do you really think our politicians are capable of stressing over what happens toordinary citizens? If they see its beneficial to them then starts the propaganda campaigns. They are not going to tell us so its up to us to ask the questions.

We seem to forget what happened during Kenya's last elections. Do we want to be the case will all EA states? We all know uganda & its guerrilla wars with LRA, do we want that to spread to all EA states? We know we Tanzanians also have a problem with our union government, are others ready to handle that? People are only thinking about the atmosphere in their own countries without realising that a federation will mean ALL MEMBER COUNTRIES WILL INHERIT THE PROBLEMS OF OTHER MEMBER COUNTRIES. YOU CAN'T MARRY A WOMAN & SAY HER PROBLEMS ARE HERS ALONE, THEY AUTOMATICALLY BECOME YOUR PROBLEMS ALSO. LAKINI IF YOY TELL PEOPLE THIS THEY SAY YOUR ARE A BACKWARD THINKER.

I urge people to think logically about this whole federation thing because most people now are talking like football supporters rather than logical thinkers. Even i would disagree with Tanzanian politicians if they decided to rush things. PLEASE PEOPLEKNOW WANT YOU ARE GETTING INTO BEFORE YOU ENTER. ONCE WE KNOW ALL THE POSSIBLE IMPLICATIONS OF A FEDERATION & ALL PARTIES INVOLVED THINK ITS WORTH THE RISK THEN LETS TALK ABOUT A FEDERATION. WE DON'T LIVE IN HEAVEN WHERE NOTHING GOES WRONG SO PEOLE SHOULD STOP PRETENDING THAT NO PROBLEM CAN ARISE FROM A FEDERATION BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE A BIG LIE. NEGATIVE EFFECTS CAN & WILL HAPPEN IF WE ARE NOT SMART ABOUT THIS FAST TRACKING THING & THE FEDERATION IN GENERAL.
 
EA Court passes landmark ruling


The East African Court of Justice (EACJ) has ruled that the principle of variable geometry is in perfect harmony with the requirement of consensus in decision-making at the East African Community (EAC).

Variable geometry is a principle in regional integration whereby some of the members within the community can move faster than others on some matters.

In its advisory opinion delivered on Friday by the Principal Judge of the court’s first Instance division, Justice Johnson Busingye, EACJ ruled that the principle should be applied to guide the regional integration process.

This means that a group within the EAC can go ahead on specific issues leaving behind those that are not ready to proceed at that particular time.

The EAC Council of Ministers had in February formally sought the opinion of the court on the interpretation of the EAC Treaty in regard to the principle.

Today, the legal position under the EAC Treaty emphasizes decision-making by consensus.

The judicial verdict also stated that consensus is simply a decision-making mechanism, while variable geometry is a strategy for implementation.

In a statement from the East African Law Society (EALS), Donald Deya, the organisations Chief Executive Officer, said that they would reflect on the court’s decision and issue a more detailed statement adding that if necessary convene a meeting of eminent legal and other scholars to debate further on the effect of the decision to the region.

The ruling comes at an opportune moment when the EAC is yet to decide on the direction of the much anticipated EAC Common Market Protocol by East Africans.

The protocol’s negotiations have been on for over a year with delays attributed to disagreements by partner states on some issues such as right of residency, land ownership and free movements of nationals within the region.

Two weeks ago, the final round of negotiations hit a snag in Kampala, Uganda.

They were delayed by one partner state, Tanzania, objecting to land ownership issues among the items within the protocol as well as opposing the use of national identity cards as travel documents within the region.

The draft protocol will be presented to the EAC Heads of State summit set to take place on Wednesday this week.

Tanzania is also the only country among the five partner states that voted against the fast tracking of the East African Political Federation.

Ends
 
MwanaFalsafa1,

There are even more reasons for Tanzanians to be pensive and more caution on this political union which gives a huge land mass, but disproportionately less votes if we were to vote on nationalistic lines (which we would!). Look closely at the federation drafts and ask questions like: How would the Presidents/government's be elected? Would it be universal suffrage, proportional representation, equal representation of each state, according land mass (I dont think so), or population size? Keep in mind that in Uganda we can rig any election and secondly we need land really badly considering the rate at which we churn out kids. Our ruling class also has a great apetite for land.

Uganda's President promotes population growth in spite of all the advice he has received from population experts. More Ugandans = poorer Ugandans = easier votes to buy/rig. At the last elections the votes cost less than a kilo of salt. As I mentioned her above: Be VERY afraid.

(Source - Mostly from Encyclopedia of Nations and CIA World Fact Book)

Uganda: A landlocked country has a total area of 236,040 sq km (91,136 sq mi), of which 36,330 sq km (14,027 mi) is inland water. Population ia approximately 30 million. Population growth rate: 3.603% (2008 est.) Some estimates put Uganda's growth rate at 3rd highest in the world after Yemen and Niger.

Kenya 582,650 sq km (224,962 sq miles) Population estimate 39,002,772, population growth rate 2.691% (2009 est.)

Tanzania 945,087 sq km (364,900 square miles), rendering it slightly larger than twice the size of California. Population approximately 38 million, Population growth rate: 2.072% (2008 est.)
 

At least there is a smart person who thinks with logic rather than stupidly directed patriotism. National interests have to be considered here. I am not saying I'm against ever having a federation or that a federation would have its benefits BUT HAVE PEOPLE CONSIDERED THE POSSIBLY NEGATIVE EFFECTS? The problem with some people is that once they see the benefits(usually for themselves) they don't consider the possible consquences(usually affecting others to) & thats why we have rulers who put as through unneccessary problems. There are a lot of issues to be considered, why not get rid of all the doubts before moving foward? Lakini we Africans we have a few people who can see far or even consider the implications of some of our decision on the short term & long run. I wonder why some people are so eager to rush the federation without thinking over the whole issue but I guess there some people who are easily fooled by their governments & mistake a majority decision as the right decision POOR US. PROPAGANDA WILL BE THE END OF US. As long as the government says it & the media promotes it then we follow like cattles even without knowing why we are following.
 
EAC, Its meant to unite us, not to divide us as I can judge from statements posted here. The federation has its pros and cons, but weighing both, I think the advantages are much more than the disadvantages.

Tanzanians, Do you really know what you are refusing, is there a specific reason for you to refuse this federation with soo much zeal? Is your reasons for refusing based from prior experiences in the federation? and if so, do you know that there has been lots of discussions and amendments to prevent what led to the collapse of the previous EAC. Are there leaders in your country who are feeding the citizenry with propaganda on the EAC issue, for it looks like there are people who tell you only the negative side and totally ignoring the positive effects of the federation.

Do you think the federation will be a threat to your land, jobs, freedom or peace? Can your phobia be because of the fear of the unknown, not knowing what will happen when enterpreneurs from other EA countries set camp in your conservative nation?

Can someone please answer this or tell me the main reason why you oppose the federation, because I cant believe that the EAC is specifically designed to reap Tanzanians off. someone please clear the air on this issue, tafadhali.
 

Mwanafalsafa!

The idea of EAC is long dead it was initiated /watered down to make some us busy for nothing. Uganda has a sexed democracy under M7 who is likely to make it for life ; still at war with Joseph Konny!

Tanzania has it's state party and some satellite political parties thriving on taxpayers money a very weak 70% donor dependant expenditure; fragile union and unsettleled mwafaka in Zanzibar and are bussy in a show down with ufisadi and too many poor fools around the country trying to make ends meet getting one meal per day is a far dream ;

Kenya has a very fragile marriage due to collapse vide the dubious toothless PM who has no government to lead;the rest Rwanda and Burundi are too preocupied with their past to give a damn!!

Therefore it's just another day dream under the palm/mango tree the African style
 
Tanzanians have experience with Union with Zanzibar for 45 yrs!

Yes EA Fed. the question is why move fast? What is the motive?

Better prepare better the fertile grounds firsit: then we in integrate and have a Fed!

We should not just rush!!
 
Smatta stop making it seem like we are afraid of kenya or a federation. I have been saying & i repeat again Tanzania has had experience because if you don't know we have a union with zanzibar which is already fragile. It seems people don't read the whole posts but rather pick out the points they feel they can best attack.

Again, the union of Tanganyika & zanzibar has problems even after 45 years why should we rush for another union? Unlike others, tanzanians want to learn from history & make sure it dosn't repeat itself thus our opposition not to the federation but the speeding up of the federation. So if you people don't know the history or the state Tanzania is right now shut your mouths & do what you want to do with your own countries!
 

Anne,

lemmie take this opportunity to officially welcome you to
JF -International Forum, where your ideas are most welcome.
Feel at home as you engage in a discourse with folks about the
merits and the demerits of the EAC/EAF.

Regards.
 
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