Askofu Millingo hawezekaniki?

Kieleweke · Dec 29, 2009

Magobe T said:
Oh! Ninachotaka kueleza hapa ni hiki: Je, nani amesema Milingo ni mlei: Kanisa Katoliki au wachangiaji? Baadhi ya wachangiaji wanaweza wasiwe na uelewa wa kutosha wa 'theological' au 'canonical jagons' (technical issues) ndiyo maana nikaleta hiyo communique na article ya canon lawyer ili kuonesha Kanisa linasema nini kwa mtu kama Milingo.

Kanisa linasema 'validly ordained minister' hawezi kurudia tena ulei. Hata hivyo, kutokana na sababu fulanifulani kubwa (grave reasons) 'validly ordained minister' anaweza kuondolewa 'clerical status' - 'faculties', 'rights' na 'privileges' za daraja. Na hii inafanyika kwa namna mbili:

1) Mhusika mwenyewe kuomba aondolewe akieleza sababu kubwa (laicisation) au
2) Mamlaka husika kuona kwamba mhusika mwenyewe baada ya kuwa ameonywa kuhusu mambo kadhaa makubwa ambayo ni kinyume na kazi yake na mafundisho ya Kanisa na amekaidi, baada ya muda fulani kupita, huwa mamlaka husika zinatakiwa zimwondolee hiyo 'clerical status'.

Mfano wake ni archbishop Milingo. Hii ina maana kwamba: kuanzia siku ilipotangazwa, Milingo hana tena 'clerical status' na chochote atakachofanya, hatafanya kwa jina la Kanisa Katoliki na pia kuanzia siku hiyo Milingo hatakuwa mmoja wa maaskofu halali wa Kanisa Katoliki (those in active ministry) - hatakuwa na ofisi ya kiaskofu, kidaraja na wala hataweza kuhudumia jumuiya yoyote iliyo chini ya Kanisa katoliki kama askofu Mkatoliki.

Kwa Kiswahili rahisi, Milingo kwa sasa siyo tofauti na mlei (kwa vile hajafukuzwa kutoka kwenye Kanisa) bali kwa maana ya kuwa hana majukumu ya kidaraja/kiaskofu - i.e hana 'clerical status'. Pengine hapajapatikana msamiati mzuri wa kumwita mtu kama yeye, kwani kukosa 'clerical status' kwa lugha ya kawaida ni kuishi kama mlei anavyoishi.

Ila kwa kuzingatia 'valid ordanation' yake, katika hatari ya kufa, Milingo anaweza kutoa baadhi ya huduma za kipadre kwa wahitaji. Ukisoma Canon Law, utaona ni huduma gani anaweza kuzitoa katika hali kama hiyo.

Hivyo, katika kujadili kwetu pengine tungesema toka mwanzo tunajadili hoja hii kutoka upande gani: wa sheria za Kanisa au uelewa wa kawaida wa watu? Na nadhani hata hao wanaosema Milingo sasa ni mlei wanasemea katika 'context' ya kukosa 'clerical status' - yaani, kwamba kwa kawaida mtu asiye na 'clerical status' ni mlei. Sijui utakuwa umenielewa kwa hili au bado?

Kwa hiyo, Milingo hana tena 'clerical status' ndani ya Kanisa Katoliki!

Mkuu Magobe T,

Sikujua kwamba tuko pamoja. Natumaini hili limeeleweka kwa wengi. Heko JF kuwa thinkTank. Sasa tuje kwenye suala lingine la huyohuyo archbishop Millingo lenye utata kidogo.

Huyu Millingo si ndiye yuleyule ambaye tayari alishakuwa ametengwa au ex-communicated tangu 2006 yaani miaka mitatu iliyopita? Na hiyo ex-communication ndiyo adhabu kubwa kuliko zote. Kwamba chochote alichokifanya huko aliko tangu 2006 si cha Kanisa Katoliki wala kutambulika na kanisa hilo.

Leo tena miaka mitatu baadaye eti anaondolewa ukleri (clerical status) wakati tayari alishatengwa! Hiyo ina maana gani? Nini kimepungua au kuongezeka in terms of adhabu.

Kuna tofauti gani kati ya mapadri aliwapadrisha mwaka jana na atakaowapadrisha kuanzia sasa.

Je, si kwamba hii adhabu ya pili ni ndogo na haikutakiwa kuwepo? Afadhali wangeanza kumpa hii ya kumnyanga ukleri kama alivyonyang'anywa Privatus Karugendo halafu ndiyo ikaja ile kubwa ya kum-excommunicate?

Mkuu, naomba majibu yako maana najua utaniletea document ndefu kama kawaida yako na mimi ndiyo ninayoihitaji na sintachoka kuisoma. Inanisumbua sana akili hii kitu iliyofanyika kwa Millingo kwa mtizamo wangu huo.

Mkuu Magobe T, shusha darasa kali!

Magobe T · Dec 29, 2009

Kieleweke said:
Mkuu Magobe T,

Sikujua kwamba tuko pamoja. Natumaini hili limeeleweka kwa wengi. Heko JF kuwa thinkTank. Sasa tuje kwenye suala lingine la huyohuyo archbishop Millingo lenye utata kidogo.

Huyu Millingo si ndiye yuleyule ambaye tayari alishakuwa ametengwa au ex-communicated tangu 2006 yaani miaka mitatu iliyopita? Na hiyo ex-communication ndiyo adhabu kubwa kuliko zote. Kwamba chochote alichokifanya huko aliko tangu 2006 si cha Kanisa Katoliki wala kutambulika na kanisa hilo.

Leo tena miaka mitatu baadaye eti anaondolewa ukleri (clerical status) wakati tayari alishatengwa! Hiyo ina maana gani? Nini kimepungua au kuongezeka in terms of adhabu.

Kuna tofauti gani kati ya mapadri aliwapadrisha mwaka jana na atakaowapadrisha kuanzia sasa.

Je, si kwamba hii adhabu ya pili ni ndogo na haikutakiwa kuwepo? Afadhali wangeanza kumpa hii ya kumnyanga ukleri kama alivyonyang'anywa Privatus Karugendo halafu ndiyo ikaja ile kubwa ya kum-excommunicate?

Mkuu, naomba majibu yako maana najua utaniletea document ndefu kama kawaida yako na mimi ndiyo ninayoihitaji na sintachoka kuisoma. Inanisumbua sana akili hii kitu iliyofanyika kwa Millingo kwa mtizamo wangu huo.

Mkuu Magobe T, shusha darasa kali!

Excommunication is a rare penalty and when it is imposed, it is meant to make an excommunicant change their behaviour or statements, repent and return to full communion with the Church.

When theres genuine repentance and correction of the error, the excommunication if lifted by a relevant authority. Actually, an excommunicant is considered still a Christain and Catholic but only that he or she has gravely impaired his or her communion with the Church.

A cleric dismissed from the clerical state cannot be reinstated in the sacred ministry without the consent of the Pope. That's why the Church gives enough time for a concerned person to know the consequences of his decision or indecision before action is taken.

Canon 1331 §1 An excommunicated person is forbidden:
1° to have any ministerial part in the celebration of the Sacrifice of the Eucharist or in any other ceremonies of public worship;
2° to celebrate the sacraments or sacramentals and to receive the sacraments;
3° to exercise any ecclesiastical offices, ministries, functions or acts of governance.
§2 If the excommunication has been imposed or declared, the offender:
1° proposing to act in defiance of the provision of §1, n. 1° is to be removed, or else the liturgical action is to be suspended, unless there is a grave reason to the contrary;
2° invalidly exercises any acts of governance which, in accordance with §1, n. 3, are unlawful;
3° is forbidden to benefit from privileges already granted;
4° cannot validly assume any dignity, office or other function in the Church;
5° loses the title to the benefits of any dignity, office, function or pension held in the Church.

A dismissed cleric like Archbishop Milingo is deprived of ministerial functions (clerical status) but his indelible priestly character remains. Consequently, any exercise of his sacramental power to ordain other priests is considered valid but illicit (unlawful).

Canon 1041: The following persons are irregular for the reception of orders:

1° one who suffers from any form of insanity, or from any other psychological infirmity, because of which he is, after experts have been consulted, judged incapable of being able to fulfil the ministry;

2° one who has committed the offence of apostasy, heresy or schism;

3° one who has attempted marriage, even a civil marriage, either while himself prevented from entering marriage whether by an existing marriage bond or by a sacred order or by a public and perpetual vow of chastity, or with a woman who is validly married or is obliged by the same vow;

4° one who has committed wilful homicide, or one who has actually procured an abortion, and all who have positively cooperated;

5° one who has gravely and maliciously mutilated himself or another, or who has attempted suicide;

6° one who has carried out an act of order which is reserved to those in the order of the episcopate or priesthood, while himself either not possessing that order or being barred from its exercise by some canonical penalty, declared or imposed.

Kieleweke · Dec 29, 2009

Magobe T said:
Excommunication is a rare penalty and when it is imposed, it is meant to make an excommunicant change their behaviour or statements, repent and return to full communion with the Church.

When there's genuine repentance and correction of the error, the excommunication if lifted by a relevant authority. Actually, an excommunicant is considered still a Christain and Catholic but only that he or she has gravely impaired his or her communion with the Church.

A cleric dismissed from the clerical state cannot be reinstated in the sacred ministry without the consent of the Pope. That's why the Church gives enough time for a concerned person to know the consequences of his decision or indecision before action is taken.

Canon 1331 §1 An excommunicated person is forbidden:
1° to have any ministerial part in the celebration of the Sacrifice of the Eucharist or in any other ceremonies of public worship;
2° to celebrate the sacraments or sacramentals and to receive the sacraments;
3° to exercise any ecclesiastical offices, ministries, functions or acts of governance.
§2 If the excommunication has been imposed or declared, the offender:
1° proposing to act in defiance of the provision of §1, n. 1° is to be removed, or else the liturgical action is to be suspended, unless there is a grave reason to the contrary;
2° invalidly exercises any acts of governance which, in accordance with §1, n. 3, are unlawful;
3° is forbidden to benefit from privileges already granted;
4° cannot validly assume any dignity, office or other function in the Church;
5° loses the title to the benefits of any dignity, office, function or pension held in the Church.

A dismissed cleric like Archbishop Milingo is deprived of ministerial functions (clerical status) but his indelible priestly character remains. Consequently, any exercise of his sacramental power to ordain other priests is considered valid but illicit (unlawful).

Canon 1041: The following persons are irregular for the reception of orders:

1° one who suffers from any form of insanity, or from any other psychological infirmity, because of which he is, after experts have been consulted, judged incapable of being able to fulfil the ministry;

2° one who has committed the offence of apostasy, heresy or schism;

3° one who has attempted marriage, even a civil marriage, either while himself prevented from entering marriage whether by an existing marriage bond or by a sacred order or by a public and perpetual vow of chastity, or with a woman who is validly married or is obliged by the same vow;

4° one who has committed wilful homicide, or one who has actually procured an abortion, and all who have positively cooperated;

5° one who has gravely and maliciously mutilated himself or another, or who has attempted suicide;

6° one who has carried out an act of order which is reserved to those in the order of the episcopate or priesthood, while himself either not possessing that order or being barred from its exercise by some canonical penalty, declared or imposed.

Nimeyasoma yote,

Ukiziangalia status zote za ex-communicated person zinatosha kumhesabu kwamba sasa hana hata clerical status.

Labda tusaidiane kuchambua. Ni sifa gani ya ex-communication ambayo tunadhani Millingo angeweza kuitumia halafu ili-affect Kanisa wakati hajaondolewa clerical status.

Kwani ukiangalia sifa za ex-communication ulizotaja ni kama vile tayari katupwa nje. Validity, na illicitness vinabaki palepale.

Kwamba ex-communcant anaweza kutubu akarudi. Kitu ambacho hata Millingo akifanya anarudishiwa vyote.

Tena ukiwa ex-communicated watu wanaelewa zaidi kuliko kuondolewa clerical status. Ukitaka kuhakikisha hili jaribu kutafiti wafuatao.

Padri (Dr.) Wilbroad Slaa hana clerical status lakini anaingia kanisani kama muumini na ni mwanakanisa mzuri sana. Padri Privatus Karugendo hakuna wa kumzuia kuhudhuria kanisani.

Lakini Father Nkwera yuko ex-communicated na Baraza la Maaskofu TEC. Hebu angalia sakata linalotokea ukigundulika ni mwanamaombi umo kanisani. Wanaishia kupiga magoti nje pale St. Joseph Cathedral. Mlioko Dar mnajua vizuri labda kama wameacha siku hizi.

Hivyo nategemea kumuona kanisani padri Karugendo na Padri Wilbroad Slaa. Lakini unategemea nini Padre Nkwera aingie pale St. Joseph na anaonwa na waumini. Hivi siku hizi huko Dar hakuna yale mabango yaliyoandikwa "Wanamaombi hawaruhusiwi".

Unadhani leo Papa akisema Father Nkwera kaondolewa clerical status huko Dar mtaona tofauti yoyote. Mimi nadhani watu wataona sawa tu. Kwani siku nyingi kanisa lake siyo St. Joseph bali ni kule Riverside kwa wanamaombi wenzake.

Ndiyo maana nasema ex-communication ni kubwa zaidi kuliko ile kuondoa ukleri au clerical status.

Leteni darasa.
Mzee Byasel ndiyo anga zake hizi lakini naona anamwachia Magobe T.

Mdanganywa · Dec 29, 2009

Hivi kuna tofaut gani kati ya neno "valid" na neno "illicit" na neno "illegal".

Mimi nadhani kuna kuachwa kwenye mataa maneno haya yanapotumika hivyo ni wazi yaeleweka.

Nasema hivyo kwa sababu wanamaombi siku moja waliandamana toka Msasani. Watu wakubwa nisioweza kuwataja walihudhuria misa iliyoanzia pale Msasani ikiendeshwa na Padri Nkwera.

Je, ile misa ya pari Nkwera ambaye yuko ex-communicated iko katika kundi gani la yale maneno. Je, hiyo misa ni "valid", "illicit" au "illegal".

Wachangiaji nyesheeni mvua ya majibu.

Magobe T · Dec 30, 2009

Kieleweke said:
Nimeyasoma yote,

Ukiziangalia status zote za ex-communicated person zinatosha kumhesabu kwamba sasa hana hata clerical status.

Labda tusaidiane kuchambua. Ni sifa gani ya ex-communication ambayo tunadhani Millingo angeweza kuitumia halafu ili-affect Kanisa wakati hajaondolewa clerical status.

Kwani ukiangalia sifa za ex-communication ulizotaja ni kama vile tayari katupwa nje. Validity, na illicitness vinabaki palepale.

Kwamba ex-communcant anaweza kutubu akarudi. Kitu ambacho hata Millingo akifanya anarudishiwa vyote.

Tena ukiwa ex-communicated watu wanaelewa zaidi kuliko kuondolewa clerical status. Ukitaka kuhakikisha hili jaribu kutafiti wafuatao.

Padri (Dr.) Wilbroad Slaa hana clerical status lakini anaingia kanisani kama muumini na ni mwanakanisa mzuri sana. Padri Privatus Karugendo hakuna wa kumzuia kuhudhuria kanisani.

Lakini Father Nkwera yuko ex-communicated na Baraza la Maaskofu TEC. Hebu angalia sakata linalotokea ukigundulika ni mwanamaombi umo kanisani. Wanaishia kupiga magoti nje pale St. Joseph Cathedral. Mlioko Dar mnajua vizuri labda kama wameacha siku hizi.

Hivyo nategemea kumuona kanisani padri Karugendo na Padri Wilbroad Slaa. Lakini unategemea nini Padre Nkwera aingie pale St. Joseph na anaonwa na waumini. Hivi siku hizi huko Dar hakuna yale mabango yaliyoandikwa "Wanamaombi hawaruhusiwi".

Unadhani leo Papa akisema Father Nkwera kaondolewa clerical status huko Dar mtaona tofauti yoyote. Mimi nadhani watu wataona sawa tu. Kwani siku nyingi kanisa lake siyo St. Joseph bali ni kule Riverside kwa wanamaombi wenzake.

Ndiyo maana nasema ex-communication ni kubwa zaidi kuliko ile kuondoa ukleri au clerical status.

Leteni darasa.
Mzee Byasel ndiyo anga zake hizi lakini naona anamwachia Magobe T.

Ndugu Kieleweke, kuna kitu nilisahau kusema toka mwanzoni: ninachochangia hapa ni mtazamo wangu/tafsiri yangu ya sheria za Kanisa Katoliki (nikiwa kama mdau) na inawezekana usiwe msimamo wa Kanisa Katoliki au mdau mwingine.

Kwa hiyo, inawezekana kabisa jibu langu lisiwe linajitosheleza ama kwa kutoweza kuelewa vizuri maana ya concepts tunazozijadili au kukosa lugha nzuri ya kuzielezea.

Hata hivyo, hapa chini ngoja nichangie hii hoja kama ifuatavyo:
1) Sheria ya Kanisa inasema 'excommunication' is a remedial penalty - haimwondelei mtu 'clerical status' ila 'it temporarily suspends ministerial functions' (kama mhusika ni cleric deacon, priest + bishop) au kutengwa na huduma za Kanisa (kama mhusika ni mlei) hadi mtu mwenyewe atakapoghaili, kujirudi na kuomba awe tena mmoja wa waumini ('in full communion with the Church').

Kwa hiyo, mtu anapotengwa na Kanisa ina maana kwamba ajifikirie vizuri na baada ya kujiridhisha, arekebishe msimamo wake, atubu kama jambo lenyewe lilikuwa na 'nature' hiyo na aombe kurudi.

2) 'Loss of clerical status' siyo 'remedial penalty' ni 'indefinite removal of a cleric from active ministry'. Ina maana shemasi, padre au askofu a) ameondolewa rasmi au b) ameomba mwenyewe aondolewe rasmi katika kutoa huduma za kidaraja na maisha ya ukleri.

Mara nyingi cleric akifikia hatua hii,
i) huwa ama yeye mwenyewe ameshajenga hoja za msingi kuonesha kuwa 'ordination' yake ilikuwa 'invalid' (mfano, alidanganywa, alilazimishwa na wazazi au hakujua vizuri daraja maana yake nini au alikuwa na malengo tofauti au alikuwa na mashaka hakufanya uamuzi wa hiari) na hivyo hawezi tena kuishi maisha ya kidaraja;
ii) alitakiwa aamue kuendelea na active ministry au kuacha baada ya kuwa ametenda kinyume na wito wake na baada ya kuonywa na mamlaka husika, ambayo yengeweza kumfika kama ataghaili kuonywa lakini licha ya yeye kujua kipi anatakiwa afanye, alikaidi.

Sheria ya Kanisa imeweka wazi baada ya muda fulani inabidi ieleweke wazi ama kwamba mhusika yumo bado kwenye utumishi wa Kanisa (active ministry) au hayumo.

Kwa vile hatua zote hizi zinafanywa kwa 'process', kila cleric anajua hatua ipi inahitaji nini.

Pengine ninachoweza kusema kwa mtu ambaye ni excommunicant kama Fr Nkwera au askofu mkuu Milingo ni kwamba wao wenyewe wana misimamo thabiti juu ya kile wanachokifanya na tayari wana wafuasi (makanisa yao). Hivyo, katika hali kama hiyo wanaonekana machoni pa watu kama waliokosa zaidi.

Ni tofauti ilivyo kwa Dr Slaa (ambaye hatusikii sana kauli zake kuhusu hiyo loss of clerical status au Kalugendo (ambaye issue yake pia inaweza kuwa ya pekee kwa sababu ya kutofautiana mara kwa mara na mamlaka husika).

Kama Dr Slaa au Pd Kalugendo wangekuwa na waumini wao side by side na Kanisa Katoliki na kufundisha kinyume na mafundisho ya Kanisa mama na wakati huohuo kudai ni Wakatoliki halisi, watu pia wangewaona tofauti.

Binafsi naona excommunication ni temporary penalty kwa sababu excommunicant ametengwa na kukatazwa asitoe huduma mpaka ajirekebishe (temporary suspension of ministerial functions and not removal of clerical status).

Wakati kuondolewa uwezo/mamlaka ya kutoa huduma za Kanisa ni hatua kubwa zaidi kwa sababu mara nyingi mhusika harudishwi tena kwenye utumishi. Nia ni kutaka kila mhusika ajue vizuri haki na wajibu wake na jinsi gani anaweza kupoteza hizo haki kama uwajibikaji wake utakuwa tatanishi. Ordinarily, excommunicant akitubu na kurekebisha anachotakiwa arekebishe atarudishwa kwenye utumishi (kuna mifano ya mapadre na maaskofu).

Lakini kama mtu ameondolewa kwenye huduma huwa harudishwi kutokana na process inayofanywa: mfano, cleric anaye prove beyond reasonable doubt kwamba he did not freely and voluntarily consent at the time of ordination hawezi tena kuja na hoja nyingine baadaye na kuprove beyond reasonable doubt kwamba he was free and voluntarily consented to be ordained ili aweze kurudishwa.

Ndiyo, maana kabla ya kutoa uamuzi wa mwisho, inatakiwa cleric mhusika asali na kutafakari na kuomba ushauri kutoka watu makini (wakiwemo washauri wa kiroho) ili afikie uamzi ulio wazi na sahihi. Na akishaamua basi asirudi nyuma tena na kabla ya kufikia uamuzi wa mwisho, mhusika hupewa muda wa kutosha kusali/kutafakari (exclaustration period).

Kikubwa ni kwamba sheria ndizo zinatoa tafsiri ya kitu hata kama mtu fulani angetaka kitu chenyewe kiwe tofauti au kiitwe vinginevyo. Lakini bila sheria fulani kutuongoza na kama kila mtu angetaka tafsiri fulani itumike, tungepata tafsiri ngapi na utekelezaji wake ungekuwaje?

Najua sheria hizi zinatoa mwongozo fulani na zinaweza kufanyiwa marekebisho kama ilivyokuwa the Code of Canon Law ya zamani hufanyiwa marekebisho na kupata hii ya mwaka 1983 kama kuna haja ya kuiboresha zaidi.

Kwa kifupi ni haya tu nilitaka kuchangia. Pengine wengine nao wanaweza kuchangia wanavyoelewa wao.

Askofu Millingo hawezekaniki?

Kieleweke

Member

Magobe T

JF-Expert Member

Kieleweke

Member

Mdanganywa

JF-Expert Member

Magobe T

JF-Expert Member

Similar Discussions