Uteuzi wa Kadhi Mkuu kuthibitishwa na Raisi wa Serikali ya Muungano

[Masanilo]

Acheni kulia lia enyi waislamu ! Msipende tende za bure, pateni akili ya kujali issues! Acheni na nonsense za kijahidina

 

[Mdondoaji]

Acheni kulia lia enyi waislamu ! Msipende tende za bure, pateni akili ya kujali issues! Acheni na nonsense za kijahidina

Wanapodai waislamu kitu it is called nonsense but nyie mnapodai katiba mpya baada ya kushindwa Dr Slaa kitu cha maana kabisa. Mna matatizo nyie kupindukia na kwa taarifa yenu Tanzania ni ya waislamu na wakristo na sio ya wakristo kama mnavyotaka kutuaminisha.

 

[Ally Kombo]

Acheni kulia lia enyi waislamu ! Msipende tende za bure, pateni akili ya kujali issues! Acheni na nonsense za kijahidina

Vp Rev mambo magumu? naona unaanza kutundika pumba humu ndani!

 

[Taso]

Angelianza nyerere kwa kukataa bilateral relationship na Vatican City, ikisha angelifuata Lowassa angelikataa ile MOU yake na kanisa as far as I am concerned katiba ilianza kuvunjwa zamani msitake kutuletea vifungu ambavyo nyie wenyewe ndio wa kwanza kuanza kuvivunja sasa siwaelewi!!!

Hicho kipengele ni cha mwaka 2005 (kimeongezwa 2005 ), Nyerere hakuweza kukivunga, kama ulivyoeleza, kwa sababu alikuwa hayupo duniani. Kinastahili kurudiwa:

Ibara ya 19 (2)
KATIBA YA JAMHURI YA MUUNGANO WA TANZANIA

Kazi ya kutangaza dini, kufanya ibada na kueneza dini itakuwa ni huru na jambo la hiari ya mtu binafsi, na shughuli na uendeshaji wa jumuiya za dini zitakuwa nje ya shughuli za mamlaka ya nchi

 

[Mdondoaji]

Hicho kipengele ni cha mwaka 2005 (kimeongezwa 2005 ), Nyerere hakuweza kukivunga, kama ulivyoeleza, kwa sababu alikuwa hayupo duniani. Kinastahili kurudiwa:

Ibara ya 19 (2)
KATIBA YA JAMHURI YA MUUNGANO WA TANZANIA

Kazi ya kutangaza dini, kufanya ibada na kueneza dini itakuwa ni huru na jambo la hiari ya mtu binafsi, na shughuli na uendeshaji wa jumuiya za dini zitakuwa nje ya shughuli za mamlaka ya nchi

Mtu wa ajabu mwengine huyu sasa kiliongezwa na mnajua kosa lilitendeka kwani basi msingelisimamisha uhusiano na ubalozi wa vatican na mkafuta ile MOU?

 

[Jasusi]

Mdondoaji,
Nyerere hakuvunja katiba katika kuanzisha uhusiano na Vatican. Vatican is a nation-state with a leader with ambassadors in many countries in the world. Si taasisi ya kidini kama unavyotaka kutuaminisha.

 

[Mdondoaji]

Mdondoaji,
Nyerere hakuvunja katiba katika kuanzisha uhusiano na Vatican. Vatican is a nation-state with a leader with ambassadors in many countries in the world. Si taasisi ya kidini kama unavyotaka kutuaminisha.

Jasusi,

Usikurupuke soma kwanini nasema Vatican City ni taasisi na sio nchi kama unavyotaka kutuaminisha kwa kuanzia nikuulize inatambulika wapi? Pili kuwa na uhusiano na nchi mbali mbali kunategemea maana duniani kuna wakatoliki wanafika Bilioni sasa sioni ajabu kwani taasisi inayokubalika. Naona narudia rudia kila mara hili swala kwa maelezo zaidi rudia post zangu za nyuma. Na naona hamna hoja ya maana hapa kwaherini nilikuwapo!!!

 

[Fenento]

Hili suala la mahakama ya Kadhi linahitaji serikali ifanye maamuzi kwa umakini mkubwa sana kwani linaweza kutuletea matatizo ndani ya nchi yetu hapo baadae. Ninacho waomba mimi wenzetu waislamu wa hapa JF watusaidie kujibu maswali magumu ya kuwepo kwa Taasisi hii hasa kwenye mihimili ya kiserikali na kwa nini isijitegemee yenyewe na kama ni kweli Rais anapitisha jina la Kadhi Mkuu je majukumu hayo ya Rais yatatambuliwa na katiba yetu?

 

[Jasusi]

Jasusi,

Usikurupuke soma kwanini nasema Vatican City ni taasisi na sio nchi kama unavyotaka kutuaminisha kwa kuanzia nikuulize inatambulika wapi? Pili kuwa na uhusiano na nchi mbali mbali kunategemea maana duniani kuna wakatoliki wanafika Bilioni sasa sioni ajabu kwani taasisi inayokubalika. Naona narudia rudia kila mara hili swala kwa maelezo zaidi rudia post zangu za nyuma. Na naona hamna hoja ya maana hapa kwaherini nilikuwapo!!!

Sijakurupuka. Wewe ndio usiyetambua ukweli. Vatican ni state.

 

[Gama]

Wanapodai waislamu kitu it is called nonsense but nyie mnapodai katiba mpya baada ya kushindwa Dr Slaa kitu cha maana kabisa. Mna matatizo nyie kupindukia na kwa taarifa yenu Tanzania ni ya waislamu na wakristo na sio ya wakristo kama mnavyotaka kutuaminisha.

w'd u plz come back again, inamaana ili tz iwe ya wakristo na waislam basi kiongozi mkuu wa waislam aidhinishwe na rais?!. Unamaana viongozi wa madhehebu ya kikristo huwa anaidhinishwa na rais?!. Mimi nadhani kuwa kiongozi mkuu wa kidini akiidhinishwa na serikali itabidi aitii serikali, hili haliwezi kumnyima uhuru?!. Nipe sababu kwanini mnataka kiongozi wa dini aidhinishwe na serikali.

 

[Lokissa]

tanzania si nchi ya dini na katinba haijasema kadhi mkuu aidhinishwe na rais. hawa jamaa wanataka kutupeleka somalia au Nigeria. mda nwingi wanawaza mahakama ya kadhi kadhi hawawazi mengineyo kama elimu na maendeleo? hiyo wasahau kama itakuepo kwani hawapati haki zao mahakama ya kawaida? unadhani katiba itawaruhusu muwe na mahakama yenu? mtakuwa mnaingiliana na uhuru wa mahakama za kawaida na pia hawana wahudumu ktk hizo mahakama.hamjasomab ado sheria na pia hii nchi sii ya kiislamu wala kikristo.Mlijidanganya kutokumpa kura mkristo mkidhani jk ndo atawaidhinishia mahakama hamjui imekula kwenu? hakuna cha kulipwa sahauni kabisa hivi hamwoni mnavonyanyasika na ufisadi,naisha magumu, umeme hakuna bado tu mwangangana na mahakama kwani mda mwingi mnawaza mahakama au mnawaza kusonga mbele kiuchumi? wakristo wanasonga mbele nyie mtaishia kulalama tu mkitaka hamieni zanzibar harutaki udini.

 

[Mdondoaji]

Sijakurupuka. Wewe ndio usiyetambua ukweli. Vatican ni state.

Jasusi

Niko makini ndugu yangu sikurupuki kama wengine nakuambia na narudia tena kwa msisitizo Vatican ni taasisi na sio nchi kama mnavyotaka kutuaminisha. Nakushauri usome vitabu ujiridhishe kabla kuja kubishana na mie. Nitakupa reference wapi mie nilisoma ukasome na wewe.

Professor Anthony Aust aliandika kitabu kinaitwa Handbook of International Law 2005, 2006,2009, 2010 editions namnukuu alisema hivi:-

"Is the Vatican a State?


Sir, It is wrong for the United Kingdom to continue to recognise the Vatican as a state, have an ambassador to the Vatican, and accord the Pope a visit as a Head of State. This is irrespective of whether it is good or bad. The Vatican is a tiny area (110 acres) with a resident population of some 800 whose main purpose is to support the Holy See. The Vatican is not a member of the United Nations. It may be seen best for what it really is: a small part of Italy devoted to proselytising Roman Catholicism, which is an important religion but no more than that."




So bwana Jasusi tukisoma between the lines kwanza tunaona kuwa the legitimacy of vatican to be a state is wrong and not only wrong it is also unfair as Vatican city state is country depending on the other country which is Italy. Na jamaa akapigia msumari zaidi kusema kuwa watu wake 800 wanafanya kazi ya kiroho sasa sijui vp tuiite Vatican City as a state.


Pia bwana Jasusi Judge Geofrey Robertson alipiga msumari mwengine katika kitabu chake hichi kakisome The Case of the Pope – Vatican Accountability for Human Rights Abuse. Alisema hivi na akitoa reference from different academics kuwa:-


"The starting point – The Creation of States in International Law – began in 1976 as a doctoral thesis by James Crawford: his second edition remarks (understatedly) that "the legal status of the Vatican City has been the subject of much study and some controversy". He still inclines to his earlier view that the Vatican City is a state but admits that some experts have denied this and that "the position of the Vatican City is peculiar and the criterion for statehood in its case only marginally (if at all) complied with".(16) Professor Gillian Triggs, correctly in my view, concludes "The Vatican City does not meet the criteria for statehood" (17) – it has no accredited diplomats, for a start, and serves as a territorial prop for the Holy See which ratifies most of its treaties. Crawford considers that the relationship between the City and the See is "a matter for some perplexity" and cites "the best modern study" of the issue which concludes (correctly in my view) that "the Holy See is not a state in international law, but has an international legal personality of its own which permits it to take international actions such as the conclusion of treaties and the maintenance of diplomatic relations".(18) Another leading textbook, International Law, sets out reasons to question "the reality of Vatican statehood",(19) whilst the late Professor Ian Brownlie's standard student textbook opines that the Vatican City claim is doubtful and the personality of the Holy See, as a politico-religious hybrid, is "even more difficult to solve" and can only be characterised by the way in which individual states relate to it. (20)"


Sasa Jasusi kabishane na hawa maprofessa wa international law maana nikiendelea kuwafahamisha hamuelewi mwisho siku nimeamua nawapa misumari tu muimeze hata kama ni michungu ndio elimu hiyo. In summary Vatican City ni taasisi na sio state.


Sikukuu njema wakuu.

 

[Mdondoaji]

w'd u plz come back again, inamaana ili tz iwe ya wakristo na waislam basi kiongozi mkuu wa waislam aidhinishwe na rais?!. Unamaana viongozi wa madhehebu ya kikristo huwa anaidhinishwa na rais?!. Mimi nadhani kuwa kiongozi mkuu wa kidini akiidhinishwa na serikali itabidi aitii serikali, hili haliwezi kumnyima uhuru?!. Nipe sababu kwanini mnataka kiongozi wa dini aidhinishwe na serikali.

Naona hatuelewani na nishasema na narudia kusema hivi mahakama ya kadhi si ibada wakuu ni mahakama kama zilivyo mahakama zengine mkae mkilijua hilo kama mnaridhia haya kama hamridhii sawa vile vile kwani sio kila maamuzi JK akiyafanya yawafurahishe nyie ndugu zetu.

 

[Mdondoaji]

tanzania si nchi ya dini na katinba haijasema kadhi mkuu aidhinishwe na rais. hawa jamaa wanataka kutupeleka somalia au Nigeria. mda nwingi wanawaza mahakama ya kadhi kadhi hawawazi mengineyo kama elimu na maendeleo? hiyo wasahau kama itakuepo kwani hawapati haki zao mahakama ya kawaida? unadhani katiba itawaruhusu muwe na mahakama yenu? mtakuwa mnaingiliana na uhuru wa mahakama za kawaida na pia hawana wahudumu ktk hizo mahakama.hamjasomab ado sheria na pia hii nchi sii ya kiislamu wala kikristo.Mlijidanganya kutokumpa kura mkristo mkidhani jk ndo atawaidhinishia mahakama hamjui imekula kwenu? hakuna cha kulipwa sahauni kabisa hivi hamwoni mnavonyanyasika na ufisadi,naisha magumu, umeme hakuna bado tu mwangangana na mahakama kwani mda mwingi mnawaza mahakama au mnawaza kusonga mbele kiuchumi? wakristo wanasonga mbele nyie mtaishia kulalama tu mkitaka hamieni zanzibar harutaki udini.

Wale wale wazee wa kukurupuka

 

[Mdondoaji]

Hili suala la mahakama ya Kadhi linahitaji serikali ifanye maamuzi kwa umakini mkubwa sana kwani linaweza kutuletea matatizo ndani ya nchi yetu hapo baadae. Ninacho waomba mimi wenzetu waislamu wa hapa JF watusaidie kujibu maswali magumu ya kuwepo kwa Taasisi hii hasa kwenye mihimili ya kiserikali na kwa nini isijitegemee yenyewe na kama ni kweli Rais anapitisha jina la Kadhi Mkuu je majukumu hayo ya Rais yatatambuliwa na katiba yetu?

Jibu moja tu kwani mahakama za tanzania zinafadhiliwa na nani? Jibu serikali sasa basi na mahakama ya kadhi itafadhiliwa na hiyo hiyo serikali.

 

[Big Dady]

Hii mada moto kweli, nimeipenda narudi tena kuchangia. Sielewi kwa nini majahidina wanachangaya suala la Kadhi na Vatican, jamani haya ni mabo tofauti kabisa. Vatican ni stae inayotambulika na dunia nzima kwamba inajitawala na kujiendeshea mambo yake, ipo ndani ya nchi ya Italia na hilo si hoja maana hata Lesotho imezungukwa na Afrika Kusini lakini ni nchi huru. Mfumo wa uendeshaji Vatican ni wa kidini lakini ina hadhi kama nchi zingine. Sasa kama utawala wa kidini wa Vatican ni nongwa mbona kuna nchi nyingi tu za kidini kama Iran, Irak. Sudan, Bahrain, Sudi Arabia na zote hizo zina balozi hapa Tanzania. Hivi hizo hamuzioni ila Vatican tu.

Kuhusu misamaha kwa taasisi za dini, ni kwa dini zote za wakristo na waislamu. Tatizo hapa ni kwamba waislamu wana taasisi chache zinazopta misamaha, sasa nani wa kumlaumu. Serikali ikitoa misamaha kwa mahospitali mnalalamika, ujinga unabaki palepale kwa sababu tu waisalamu wana hosptali chache, lakini je wagonjwa waislamu hawatibiwi katika hosptali hizo. Ni mengi ya kueleza labda niseme hawa jama ni wavivu wa kufikiri.

 

[Jasusi]

Jibu moja tu kwani mahakama za tanzania zinafadhiliwa na nani? Jibu serikali sasa basi na mahakama ya kadhi itafadhiliwa na hiyo hiyo serikali.

Mdondoaji,'Tofauti ya mahakama za sasa na mahakama ya kadhi ni kwamba mahakama za serikali hazina dini. Mahakama ya kadhi ni taasisi ya kidini. Isifadhiliwe na secular state. Period.

 

[Mdondoaji]

Hii mada moto kweli, nimeipenda narudi tena kuchangia. Sielewi kwa nini majahidina wanachangaya suala la Kadhi na Vatican, jamani haya ni mabo tofauti kabisa. Vatican ni stae inayotambulika na dunia nzima kwamba inajitawala na kujiendeshea mambo yake, ipo ndani ya nchi ya Italia na hilo si hoja maana hata Lesotho imezungukwa na Afrika Kusini lakini ni nchi huru. Mfumo wa uendeshaji Vatican ni wa kidini lakini ina hadhi kama nchi zingine. Sasa kama utawala wa kidini wa Vatican ni nongwa mbona kuna nchi nyingi tu za kidini kama Iran, Irak. Sudan, Bahrain, Sudi Arabia na zote hizo zina balozi hapa Tanzania. Hivi hizo hamuzioni ila Vatican tu.

Kuhusu misamaha kwa taasisi za dini, ni kwa dini zote za wakristo na waislamu. Tatizo hapa ni kwamba waislamu wana taasisi chache zinazopta misamaha, sasa nani wa kumlaumu. Serikali ikitoa misamaha kwa mahospitali mnalalamika, ujinga unabaki palepale kwa sababu tu waisalamu wana hosptali chache, lakini je wagonjwa waislamu hawatibiwi katika hosptali hizo. Ni mengi ya kueleza labda niseme hawa jama ni wavivu wa kufikiri.

Sawa sisi wavivu wa kufikiri kama nyie mlivyo wavivu wa kuona. kuhusu Vatican nimekupeni vipengele hapo juu kwanini vinaiweka Vatican sio nchi, kwanza ni nchi ambayo activities zake zote zimelenga kutoa huduma ya kiroho. Sasa nikuulize Saudi Arabia wanatoa tu huduma za kiroho?, Iran je? Mbona mnazungumza mapumba tu. Pili Vatican imekuja kwasababu hoja yenu kubwa ya kijinga ni kwamba mnadai serikali haina dini. Sasa nikimnukuu Professor Ian Brownlie's standard student textbook anasema hivi " the Vatican City claim is doubtful and the personality of the Holy See, as a politico-religious hybrid, is "even more difficult to solve" and can only be characterised by the way in which individual states relate to it. (20)".

Kwa hivyo unakuta ile bilateral relatioship aliyoianzisha Nyerere na Vatican ilitokana na mahusiano ya kiroho zaidi kuliko kiubalozi na hivyo hivyo zilivyo balozi za vatican sehemu nyengine. Sasa unakuta kuwa Serikali imeanzisha mahusiano na taasisi za kidini wakati ambapo yenyewe inaclaim haina dini hii ni ujinga na usanii. Waislamu walipotaka kujiunga na OIC mapapa wenu walitoka hadharani kudai kuwa Tanzania ni nchi ambayo haina dini wakasahau Vatican nayo inafanya nini Tanzania. Fatilia mjadala wa Vatican UN utajua kwanini walipigwa nyundo kukataliwa kuwa member wa UN na kwa kuwaonea haya wakawapa special position kuwa Observatory member ili wasionekane wamekosa kabisa but Vatican sio nchi na hilo mkae mkilijua sio maneno yangu bali magwiji wa international law wameyasema mimi nanukuu tu.

 

[Mdondoaji]

Mdondoaji,'Tofauti ya mahakama za sasa na mahakama ya kadhi ni kwamba mahakama za serikali hazina dini. Mahakama ya kadhi ni taasisi ya kidini. Isifadhiliwe na secular state. Period.

Jasusi wewe nimeshakuona huna hoja bali unalazimisha unaloliamini wewe likubaliwe and I am sorry to say this sikubaliani na wewe. Umedai kuwa Vatican ni nchi nimekupa arguments na reference umekaa kimya inaelekea umeshaconclude ndani ya kichwa chako kuwa Vatican ni nchi na hakuna mjadala. Sasa umekuja kudai kuwa mahakama za serikali hazina dini na mahakama ya kadhi ni taasisi kama ingelikuwa taasisi basi kwanini zanzibar, Kenya wameikubali kuwa mmoja ya mifumo ya mahakama zao.

Husemi kwa vipi wewe umeiona mahakama ya kadhi ni taasisi na unadai kuwa serikali ni secular state yes but nikuulize swali define secular state. Pia kama ni secular state mbona basi kuna masuala ambayo siyo secular serikali ya Tanzania imeendelea kuyakumbatia mfano kuendelea na mahusiano na Vatican City, na MOU ya makanisa. To me hii ni double standard huku mnadai secular huku nyuma ya mlango mnafanya mambo yanautetea kanisa to me this is absolutely ridiculous!!!

 

[Didia]

Serikali ilipotoa misamaha ya kodi maaskofu na wachungaji ndio wa kwanza kulalamika kwa nini?
Serikali inatoteza billion ngapi kwa siku?
Kumlipa mtu mmoja ndio ewe sababu.
Ubarozi wa vatcan mbona unahudumiwa na serikali sisi tumekaa kimya.
Mahakama itaanzishwa tu hata iwe vipi

Kosa ni kufikiri kuwa misamaha ya kodi inawanufaisha wakristo! Hivi hutambui kuwa sheria ya misahama nikwa taasisi zote za dini na miskiti/mashehe wamenufaika nayo? Pili hujui maeneo mengi watanzania wadini zote uhudumiwa na hosptal zinazomilikwa na makanisa?

Vatican ni nchi yenye status tofauti na Zbar. Ina barozi katika umoja wa mataifa kama nchi nyingine pia. Kuhudumiwa kwa ubarozi wa vatican unako kuzungumzia sijui ni kwa namna gani maana serikali haiwajibiki kuhudumia balozi (Tafuta kifungu kwenye Bajeti)

Unapojenga hoja ya kadhi ni vyema ukaitetea yenyewe ukitaka kulingasha yasiyo linganishika utakwama

Regards