Dismiss Notice
You are browsing this site as a guest. It takes 2 minutes to CREATE AN ACCOUNT and less than 1 minute to LOGIN

Ukabila Ikulu, Ujenzi, Mambo ya nje, Mipango, TRA, BoT + Ofisi nyeti za serikali

Discussion in 'Jamii Intelligence' started by Samvulachole, Feb 22, 2007.

  1. S

    Samvulachole JF-Expert Member

    #1
    Feb 22, 2007
    Joined: Oct 22, 2006
    Messages: 343
    Likes Received: 17
    Trophy Points: 35
    Najua hii topiki haitokuwa poplar na baadhi ya watu humu ndani na hata wenye website lakini potelea mbali

    Je ni kweli wizara hizo zimejaa makabila ya Wachagga,Wanyakyusa na wahaya?

    mimi nilikuwa siamini mpaka pale NILIPO ambiwa kuwa kuna UKABILA wa hali ya juuu kule Ikulu NA vile vile namba mbili kwa UKABILA ni TRA je kuna ukweli katika haya?

    Japo kuna watu wanasema kuwa ni udini lakini sumu ambayo hatuko tayari hata kuijadili ni hii ya ukabila na ndio inayoturudisha nyuma je mnakubaliana nayo?





    -JAMBO FORUMS WHERE WE DARE TALK OPENLY
     
  2. Lunyungu

    Lunyungu JF-Expert Member

    #2
    Feb 22, 2007
    Joined: Aug 7, 2006
    Messages: 8,826
    Likes Received: 29
    Trophy Points: 135
    Mimi naweza kukubaliana nawe na usije sahau udini ni mwingi sana Ikulu
     
  3. M

    Mwendapole Old JF-Expert Member

    #3
    Feb 22, 2007
    Joined: Dec 4, 2006
    Messages: 249
    Likes Received: 9
    Trophy Points: 0
    Hebu tuambie kile ulichoambiwa nasi tupime ukweli wake.
    Tupe tu majina ya hao wachagga/wanyakyusa/wahaya na post walizonazo.
    hapa hachukiwi mtu; ni hoja zako tu mwanangu zinaongea na kuipa hoja yako hiyo popularity
     
  4. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #4
    Feb 22, 2007
    Joined: Mar 10, 2006
    Messages: 30,296
    Likes Received: 2,071
    Trophy Points: 280
    samvulechole... hakuna hoja ambayo ni ngeni hapa.. madai ya makabila hayo kupendelewa hayakuanza leo! tangu mara tu baada ya uhuru kulikuwa na tuhuma hizo hizo.. so.. there is nothing there..! Hata hivyo hatari unayoweza kuleta siyo ukabila bali ubaguzi, kuwa kama mtu anatoka kwenye makabila hayo basi asipewe nafasi fulani kwa vile watu fulani wanadhani kuna ukabila! Nitakupa mfano, kuna wanasheria watatu wote ni maprofesa... kuna Prof. Mwakalindile (Sheria, uzoefu miaka 30), Prof. Mtimba (mmakua, uzoefu miaka 10, sheria), na Prof. Chanda (Mzigua, sheria uzoefu miaka 5). Assuming maeneo ya fani zao ni sawa, ceteris paribus Rais anataka kumteua mshauri wa kisheria.. nani apewe kwa haki? Wengi watasema prof. Mwakalindile! Sasa kwa kufanya hivyo hata hivyo kuna wanyakyusa wawili tayari hapo ikulu ambao wameshapata nafasi zao, je tumnyime Mwakalindile kwa vile itaonesha ukabila?

    Kabla hatujafikia hapo pa kudai ukabila tujiulize: "Kwanini inaonekana kuna wasomi wengi wa makabila hayo matatu Wachaga, Wahaya, na Wanyakyusa"? Je, tupunguze wanafunzi wanaotoka kwenye makabila hayo na kuwapa nafasi watu wa makabila mengine ili kuleta uwiano (parity)? Je tukiamua kufanya hivyo hatutakuwa tunaanza ubaguzi wa kikabila?

    Tarehe 9 Disemba 1968 Nyerere alitumia siku ya Jamhuri kuzungumzia "Vitu ambavyo ni lazima Tuvisahihishe", vitu ambavyo baada ya uhuru havikwenda vilivyotarajiwa. Alizungumzia ukabila; kwanza alisema hivi:

    "the man who talks about tribalism being practised without having any evidence for his statement is often a man who wants to stir up tribalism. Even if that is not his purpose, the result can be just the same. People will begin to think that there is tribalism, and, once people begin to think in these terms, then tribalism has begun to enter tinto our society"

    Kuhusu Wahaya, Wanyakyusa, na Wachaga kupata nafasi nyingi katika serikali, Mwalimu alisema hivi miaka karibu 30 iliyopita:

    "..the work of the civil servants and people in the parastatal organizations does require education..it so happened that the Tanzanians who had the opportunity for higher education under the colonialists were mostly Wahaya, Wachagga, and Wanyakyusa. And because most of the education was provided by missionaries, most of these people are also Christians. That was our inheritance. These conditions will change, but they have not changed yet. And for these reasons, when we get rid of the Europeans who were doing responsible jobs, and give these jobs to Tanzanians, the people who get them come mostly from one or other of these three tribes".

    Akaongeza pia,

    "Therefore, if you ask me why Wahaya, Wachagga, and Wanyakyusa have most of the jobs which require higher education, the answer is very obvious. They were the ones who received higher education during colonial times. I'd say: investigate the position in politics where a man is not asked about his educational qualifications. Look at the Parliament, the National Executive and Central Committee of TANU, and at the Cabinet. How many Wanyakyusa, Wahaya, or Wachagga are members? You will find that perhaps there aren't any, or there are one or two. This is the truth"

    kwa umahiri wake wa maneno JKN akatoboa ukweli huu

    "Anyone who refuses to accept a very obvious truth like this, and says that the reason is tribalism, must provide us with the evidence for his statement. If he cannot provide any evidence, we must conclude either that he is a fool, or that he is strirring up tribalism deliberately. He is the sort of (a) person who begs work on a tribal basis, and when he is refused because he does not have the capabilities, he pretends he was refused on tribal grounds."

    Akasema pia ni jukumu la serikali kusaidia sehemu ambazo bado ziko nyuma kielimu. Na alimaliza kwa kusema:

    ".. if a Mchagga, a Mhaya, or a Mnyakyusayoung man were refused work simply because of his tribe - when he is capable and there is no other Tanzanian with the qualifications - then we would be practising a very stupid and very evil kind of tribalism such as that which caused the establishment of Biafra. I beg you, my brothers, avoid ANYTHING WHICH COULD BRING OUR COUNTRY INTO THIS KIND OF DISGRACE" (emphasis mine)
    (From: Uhuru na Maendeleo pp 76,77)

    so what say you?
     
  5. M

    Mkandara Verified User

    #5
    Feb 22, 2007
    Joined: Mar 3, 2006
    Messages: 15,414
    Likes Received: 69
    Trophy Points: 145
    Mzee Mwanakijiji,

    Chukua zako tano!
     
  6. S

    S. S. Phares JF-Expert Member

    #6
    Feb 22, 2007
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Messages: 2,140
    Likes Received: 5
    Trophy Points: 0
    Mwanakijiji

    Chukua 10 kwa jumla jumla.
     
  7. M

    Mr. Clean Senior Member

    #7
    Feb 22, 2007
    Joined: Aug 7, 2006
    Messages: 195
    Likes Received: 1
    Trophy Points: 35
    Well done Mkkj,

    Ndugu yangu samvulachole, umeanza kujihami ati topic haitawapendeza baadhi ya wachangaiji...wewe ulitaka kila mtu akubaliane na yasemwayo hata kama ni pumba?

    Taonesha wewe mwenyewe ndo mkabila ma mdini, ndo maana ukachambua hobi uliyonayo..!!!

    Hayo makabila ulotaja HAKIKA kumejaa wasomi...HATA UKINUNA...! sasa ulitegemea hapo kwenu samvulachole toka alfajiri umevalia msuli wachwza bao barazani ndo ulinganishe na kule kwa walima ndizi Bk?

    Wenzio wamekwenda shule, wakapata nafasi nzuri kazini kwao, wewe utabaki mhudumu na mfagizi wa ofisi tuuu>! hadi utakapoelimisha kizazi kijacho cha huko samvulachole..!
     
  8. J

    Jasusi JF-Expert Member

    #8
    Feb 22, 2007
    Joined: May 5, 2006
    Messages: 11,446
    Likes Received: 88
    Trophy Points: 145
    Mwkjj,
    Na mimi naongeza zangu 10! Somo limeisha.
     
  9. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #9
    Feb 22, 2007
    Joined: Mar 10, 2006
    Messages: 30,296
    Likes Received: 2,071
    Trophy Points: 280
    unajua mtu usipojua historia yako.. kuna hatari ya kujaribu kuiandika upya! Ili kuelewa hapa tulipo sometimes we have to look back where we are coming from. Historia yetu haikuanza jana au juzi (kama baadhi wanavyotaka tuamini) matatizo tuliyonayo leo hayakuanza jana (isipokuwa haya ya kina Richmonduli!) lakini mengi yana msingi toka huko nyuma. Binafsi, nitashtuka zaidi kama kwenye nafasi fulani kwenye taasisi kumejaa Wakerewe, Wanyali, au Watindiga.. kwa sababu hakuna jibu zuri la kihistoria linaloweza kuonesha kujaa huko!!

    La maana ni kuongeza jitihada ili baadaye hali ielekee uwiano kwani Waha na Wamang'ati na wenyewe watakuwa na shule nyingi na wanapata nafasi nyingi za kusoma.. kwani hata hivi sasa bado Uchagani, Mbeya n.k wanaendelea kuwa na shule nyingi na zenye kutoa wanafunzi wengi (angalia matokeo ya hivi karibuni!)..

    Do we need some kind of affirmative action which would not be translated as reverse discrimination?
     
  10. T

    Tuipendeinchiyetu Member

    #10
    Feb 22, 2007
    Joined: Feb 18, 2007
    Messages: 27
    Likes Received: 2
    Trophy Points: 0
    Mkjj,
    Kwanza ninawapa pongezi wanajambo wote kwa kukata issue!.mimi nimsomaji wa siku nyingi toka bcs lakini si mchangiaji.Lakini hii maada imenikumba hata mimi katika harakati zangu za maisha ya kazi,nilipokuwa ndani ya mfumo wa serikali
    Hili swala ni gumu kwa kuangalia kwa inje,nikiwa na maana ya kuwa kama mtu si mwajiriwa wa serikali au shirika la umma lolote.
    unachokisema ni sahihi kwa wakati huo,lakini kwasasa hivi makabila mengi wamesoma,lakini kwa sababu waliotangulia ni wa makabila hayo,basi kazi zitakwenda kwa kuangalia kama muombaji anatoka kwenye kabila lake au laa.hapa ninamaana hakuna usawa,hata hizo nafasi za shule zitakwenda kwa mfumo huo.kwa hiyo labda tujadili nia mbadala lakini ukweli ndiyo huo kwa mtu ambaye yupo ndani ya mfumo wa serikali unaona hili,lakini kwa mtu ambaye haupo ndani ya mfumo huo unaweza usikubaliane na mtoa hoja.Ninaomba kutoa .01%
     
  11. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #11
    Feb 22, 2007
    Joined: Mar 10, 2006
    Messages: 30,296
    Likes Received: 2,071
    Trophy Points: 280
    tuipendenchiyetu, karibu na tunafurahi kuwa umeweza hatimaye kuamua kuchangia badala ya kuwa mtazamaji tu.

    a. Katika maendeleo yote ya elimu hadi hivi sasa, Makabila hayo yamerudi nyuma au yameendelea mbele?

    b. Ili kuweza kufikia uwiano, je tuamue kuyafunga breki, kwa mfano kusitisha kwa miaka mitano kuchukua wanafunzi wa elimu ya juu toka makabila hayo?

    c. Tukiamua kufanya hivyo, tuhakikishe kuwa hawaendi kusoma nje ya nchi pia kwa muda huo?

    d. Je, tunapopokea CV ya mtu au kumchagua mtu tukiona jina la "Kagaruki", "Mwakipesile" au "Lyimo" tuwaengue moja kwa moja?

    e. Kwenye ofisi ambazo zimejaa watu wa makabila hayo tuzipangue na kuwaaingiza watu wa makabila mengine ilimradi isionekane wamejaa watu wa kabila moja?

    f. Tukishaanza kufanya hivyo na tukagundua kuwa watu warefu ndio wengi zaidi, tuanze kuhakikisha watu wafupi nao wanaingizwa? tukifanya hivyo tukagundua kuwa wengi wanaofanya kazi maofisini wanatumia mikono ya kulia, tuanze kutafuta watumiaji wa mikono ya kushoto? na tukimaliza hivyo na kugundua kuwa wengi waliojariwa ni wanaume, tuwapunguze ili tuongeze wanawake? Tukishamaliza hivyo na kugundua kuwa wanawake wengi waliojariwa ni waislamu, tuwaombe wastaafu ili wawapishe wakristu? tukifanya hivyo na kugundua kuwa wakristo hao wengi ni wakatoliki tuwatake wawamegee nafasi hizo waprotestanti?.. ni jinsi gani tutasitisha zoezi hilo la kibaguzi?
     
  12. K

    Kalamu JF-Expert Member

    #12
    Feb 22, 2007
    Joined: Nov 26, 2006
    Messages: 874
    Likes Received: 2
    Trophy Points: 0
    Wakati ninakubaliana nawe 100% kwa nyakati hizo za 1960s, 70s na hata 8os
    nadhani tusibweteke na kuanza kutetea 'status quo' ya karibu nusu karne baada ya kupata uhuru wetu! Kuna kila aina ya sababu ya kuhakikisha kuwa ukabila, udini visiwe vigezo vya waTanzania kuanza kubaguana. Kuna umhimu mkubwa kwa kiongozi kama Kikwete sasa hivi kupigilia msumari wa mwisho katika jeneza la ubaguzi wa aina hii. Tunaweza kuweka vichwa mchangani na kusema matatizo kama haya hayajionyeshi kuwepo Tanzania; lakini kujidanganya hakuwezi kubadilisha hali halisi.
    Unaweza kusema kuwa haya matatizo yanaweza kuwa yanajitokeza zaidi wakati huu kwa sababu ya mabadiliko makubwa ya kiuchumi na kiutawala. Nafasi za kazi zimekuwa ni adimu, nafasi za shule taabu n.k. na huku watafutaji wamekuwa ni wengi!
    Mimi nasema hatujawa na matatizo makubwa sana ya kubaguana, lakini dalili zipo wazi kabisa. Ni wajibu wa viongozi wetu kuonyesha uongozi shupavu ili tuendelee kuwa waTanzania wa kweli bila ya kujali dini/makabila yetu kwanza.
     
  13. M

    Mkandara Verified User

    #13
    Feb 22, 2007
    Joined: Mar 3, 2006
    Messages: 15,414
    Likes Received: 69
    Trophy Points: 145
    Kalamu,
    Nitakubaliana na wewe ikiwa kweli ushihidi unaonyesha kuwa watu wanachaguliwa kwa kupitia vigezo hivyo. Kuna ubaguzi mkubwa kwa sisi wenyewe Wananchi kuliko ndani ya Uongozi.
    Na vyombo vya makabila na ya kidini kweli vimekuwa vikijaribu kujenga hoja ambazo zinaambukiza matabiri ya Nyerere!...siku hizi kuna vyama vya Watanga sijui Wakerewe n.k
    Ukisoma kwa makini maelezo ya Nyerere utaona kuwa wanao question Ukabila na udini wameibuka sana miaka hii na hii inasababisha kujenga imani za Ukabila hata kufikia watu kuanza kuunda vyama vya makabila na makundi ya kidni.
    Kila chaguzi sasa hivi linatazamwa kwa rangi zake iwe dini ama Ukabila wakati sote tunafahamu adui yetu mkubwa ktk uchumi wetu leo hii ni KUJUANA. Huna address shule itakuwa ngumu, ajira n.k.
    Marafiki wengi wa JK wanatoka makabila mbalimbali na dini tofauti na ndio tunawaona wakishika nafasi kama ilivyokuwa toka wakati wa Nyerere. bahati mbaya hakuna mtu aliyethubutu kumuuliza Nyerere na pia wakati ule tukumbuke kulikuwepo na chama kimoja chini ya mfumo wa kisocialist. You are either with us or take the highway!
     
  14. O

    Ogah JF-Expert Member

    #14
    Feb 22, 2007
    Joined: Mar 10, 2006
    Messages: 6,187
    Likes Received: 9
    Trophy Points: 135
    hahhahahahahah duuuhh Mwanakijiji hiyo kali,

    ndg samvulachole wrote,
    ".........mimi nilikuwa siamini mpaka pale NILIPO ambiwa kuwa kuna UKABILA wa hali ya juuu kule Ikulu NA vile vile namba mbili kwa UKABILA ni TRA je kuna ukweli katika haya?.............."

    hebu tueleze kinagaubaga yanayo/yaliyojiri, ulielezwa nini mpaka ukaamini uliyoambiwa? hebu tumegee kidogo
     
  15. P

    Phillemon Mikael JF Gold Member

    #15
    Feb 22, 2007
    Joined: Nov 5, 2006
    Messages: 7,526
    Likes Received: 745
    Trophy Points: 280
    MWANAKIJIJI kula tano,za mikono yote!! hoja ya ukabila ni ya mtu aliyefilisika kifikra...ni kama wale wanaosema shule za madhehebu ya kikristo zinapendelewa wakati watoto wa watu tena wa dini zote wanakesha wanasoma na maji kwenye beseni...unataka wapate sawa na watoto wetu wanaokaa chini kwenye shule za SIKU SABA..Tena bila walimu wa kutosha..
     
  16. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #16
    Feb 23, 2007
    Joined: Mar 10, 2006
    Messages: 30,296
    Likes Received: 2,071
    Trophy Points: 280
    shule za siku saba...now there is a term I have not heard before....
     
  17. Dua

    Dua JF-Expert Member

    #17
    Feb 23, 2007
    Joined: Nov 14, 2006
    Messages: 2,483
    Likes Received: 14
    Trophy Points: 135
    mkjj We Are All Behind You. Mjadala Huu Umeishia Hapa Longolongo Za Ukabila Kwisha. Watu Waende Kusoma Kazi Zitatolewa Kwa Wale Wanaoweza Kutuongoza Bila Kujilimbikizia Mali.
     
  18. P

    Phillemon Mikael JF Gold Member

    #18
    Feb 23, 2007
    Joined: Nov 5, 2006
    Messages: 7,526
    Likes Received: 745
    Trophy Points: 280
    mjj shule za siku saba ni hizi zinazojengwa kwa siku saba katika hii operasheni ya kupokea watoto waliokosa nafasi,nyingi zinakosa sifa makini ya shule kama ,maabara,library,madawati,walimu wa kutosha ets
     
  19. P

    Phillemon Mikael JF Gold Member

    #19
    Feb 23, 2007
    Joined: Nov 5, 2006
    Messages: 7,526
    Likes Received: 745
    Trophy Points: 280
    mbona ile thread MSIBA WA MANGI MAREALLE imefutwa? ilikuwa na ubaya gani...peple would like to know whts going on since all leaders would be there for the burial which starts today and end tommorow,and ccm in moshi is doing all what it can to make the burial a ccm affair ,i think so as to seal the mass support it is about to enjoy in kilimanjaro region...
     
  20. T

    Tuipendeinchiyetu Member

    #20
    Feb 23, 2007
    Joined: Feb 18, 2007
    Messages: 27
    Likes Received: 2
    Trophy Points: 0
    Kalamu,
    Ninakubaliana nawe.
    Mkjj,
    kiujumla si kwamba ninapinga mawazo yako lakini ni kuwa hiyo elements ya ukabila kwa sasa unachipuka kwa kasi ingawa tunajifanya hatuioni kwa sababu si tunaoguswa,pengine ndiyo tunaofaidika na mfumo huo ambao unakuwa kwa kasi !.Lakini tukijifanya kama wanasiasa wa ccm ambao wanaogopa kusema kweli kwa kuogopa kuvifaidisha vyama vya upinzani si muda mrefu,tutajuliana kwa makabila!.kibaya zaidi pale ambapo taasisi ya umma inapogeuka kuwa NGO,Hivyo si dhani kama taasisi hiyo inaweza kufikisha malengo yake kwa umma wote.Pengine kwa sasa tufukie vichwa vyetu mchangani kama alivyo sema mzee kalam.
     
Loading...