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Udini ulianza kipindi cha Mwinyi - CCT

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Luteni, Dec 17, 2010.

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  1. Luteni

    Luteni JF-Expert Member

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    Mwenyekiti wa CCT, Askofu Peter Kitula amesema tatizo la udini lilianza mwaka 1986 na hakuna kiongozi wa serikali aliyejitokeza kulikemea badala yake Chama Cha Mapinduzi (CCM) ilizidi kufanya makosa kwa kuingiza suala hilo katika Ilani yake ya uchaguzi ya mwaka 2005.

    "Kuanzia miaka ya 1986 kulianza kujitokeza mihadhara ya kidini na kidhehebu katika jamii ambayo hatukuwa tumeizoea lakini jambo hili halikukemewa wala kuchukuliwa hatua za kisheria".

    Ilani ya uchaguzi ya CCM 2005 ilitamka bayana kuwa suala la Mahakama ya Kadhi litashughulikiwa na kupatiwa ufumbuzi, ikumbukwe kuwa mahakama ya kadhi ni jambo la kidini na kiibada katika dini ya kisilamu, jambo hili ni kinyume cha Katiba ya nchi na sheria ya vyama vya siasa hakuna aliyeona hatari yake na kwamba litakuwa chanzo cha udini ndani ya siasa za Tanzania, "alisema.

    Kwa maneno ya Kitula umefika wakati sasa tuache unafiki tuanze kuwataja kwa majina yao wote wanaohusika kulipeleka taifa kusiko bila kumng'unya maneno, kwa kuanzia nitaanza na Mwenyekiti wa NEC anakotupeleka siko. Ni ukweli mchungu.
     
  2. Kigogo

    Kigogo JF-Expert Member

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    kazi ipo mwaka huu.hii nchi kama haijapigwa kiberiti sijui ..hebu ngoja kwanza nione mwisho wake
     
  3. Jile79

    Jile79 JF-Expert Member

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    Hakuna asiyejua kuwa kikwete ndiye anatupeleka kusikojulikana kwa kung'ang'ania dini ya kiislamu badala ya kuhangaika namna ya kulikomboa taifa......inaonesha kikwete hana mipango yoyote mizuri na nchi hii zaidi ya kuliingiza taifa ktk machafuko ya kidini na nasikia ameambiwa na waislamu wenzake kuwa lazima afanye hivyo na kwa gharama yoyote ikiwemo kumwaga damu.......kwa hiyo kikwete amekuwa kam shekh yahaya wa waislamu kwa kushabikia zaidi uislamu na ndiyo maana watz kwa kutambua hayo waliamua kutokumpa kura japo amepita kwa chakachua...............
    Kikwete ajue watz hawataki udini alioamua kufa nao na hasa kwa kuendeleza mijadala ya kijinga km ya mahakama ya kadhi na oic wakati ni mambo ya kiislamu...........kuna nchi nyingi mi nadhani waislamu wakitaka kuishi kwa ukafiri wao wa kiislamu basi wahamie kwenye nchi za kiislamu lakini hatutaki uchafu huo hapa kwetu tz
     
  4. Ng'wanangwa

    Ng'wanangwa JF-Expert Member

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    ameruhusu uhuru wa kuzungumza ili waislamu wapate upenyo wa kuzungumza pumba zao za kigaidi (oic na kadhi).

    kwa hilo tuko macho.
     
  5. Ngongo

    Ngongo JF-Expert Member

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    CCM inapaswa kulaumiwa na kulaaniwa kwa kupanda na kulea udini Tanzania kwa kipindi cha miongo miwili sasa.Kipindi cha Mzee A Hassan Mwinyi vilizuka vikundi vya imani kali ya dini ya kiislam karibu mikoa yote Tanzania bara na kazi yao kubwa ilikuwa kuutukana na kuhujumu ukristo.Makanisa na shule za madhehebu ya kikiristo yalichomwa moto na kusababisha vifo[Shauri Tanga] na hasara kubwa ya mali na miundo mbinu.Serekali iliunda tume kadhaa kwaajili ya kuudanya umma.
     
  6. zomba

    zomba JF-Expert Member

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    Hakuna asiyejuwa kuwa kanisa siku zote ndio linaloanzisha udini Tanzania. Inawahusu nini wao siasa? Wakijibiwa, oooohhh nongwa, nyie wadini. Wakati wao ndi huanza kuchokonowa makusudi kabisa:

    Kumbuka walicho kifanya Rwanda, tusiwape nafasi wakakileta Tanzania:

    Haya Makanisa tuyaangalie sana, ndio chanzo cha chokochoko za umwagaji damu, hata Rwanda, kanisa lilikuwa ndio chanzo cha mauaji ya kimbari, soma:

    Rwanda

    Genocide and the role of the Church in Rwanda

    What exactly was the role of the Catholic Church in the Rwandan
    genocide? NDAHIRO TOM, a Rwandan human rights commissioner, paints a picture of deep historical and political complicity and calls for the Church to restore its credibility by contributing to the process of justice.

    16 April 2005 - Ndahiro Tom (A Commissioner of Human Rights in Rwanda.)

    Source: PAMBAZUKA
    Pambazuka News

    Why do they eat my people as they eat bread? (Psalm 14)

    All over Rwandan hills, valleys and mountains, thousands of crosses
    mark mass graves of genocide victims of 1994. During the genocide, many
    Tutsis were massacred in or around places of worship, including Catholic churches – paradoxically, in a country which was the most Christianised in Africa, with Christians representing more than 80% of the population. Catholic bishops in Rwanda have sometimes claimed that all Rwandans believe in God. (Kinyamateka, No. 1614, January 2003, pg. 6) There are hundreds of churches and chapels everywhere and almost every day followers repeatedly recite the prayer, “Our Father who art in heaven”, pleading with the Father to deliver them from evil (Matthew 6:13). From where, then, did the malevolence at the root of the genocide come? How and by whom could it have been overcome? Part of the answer to these questions is the Church and its members.

    According to Jean-Pierre Karegeye, a Jesuit priest, genocide is morally hideous, an evil expressed in forgetting God, and hence a new form of atheism. Karegeye asks several pertinent questions which merit consideration: “Christians killing other Christians? How could Rwandan
    Christians who manifested commitment to their faith have acted with
    such intense cruelty? How did ordinary people come to commit extraordinary evil…? Does the sin of genocide disturb the relationship between God and the perpetrators in official Catholic Church discourse? How can we explain the strange situation of priests involved in the crimes of genocide who are still running parishes in Western countries? Why are they protected by the Vatican against any legal proceedings?” He concludes: “The Church’s attitude towards genocide seems to suggest that the hierarchy of religious values is not usually in proportion to the hierarchy of moral standards.”

    Generally, in Rwanda, the leadership of the Christian churches, especially that of the Catholic Church, played a central role in the creation and furtherance of racist ideology. They fostered a system which Europeans introduced and they encouraged. The building blocks of this ideology were numerous, but one can mention a few – first, the racist vision of Rwandan society that the missionaries and colonialists imposed by developing the thesis about which groups came first and last to populate the country (the Hamitic and Bantu myths); second, by rigidly controlling historical and anthropological research; third, by reconfiguring Rwandan society through the manipulation of ethnic identities (from their vague socio-political nature in the pre-colonial period, these identities gradually became racial). From the late 1950s, some concepts became distorted: thus democracy became numerical
    democracy or demographic.

    The philosophy of ‘rubanda nyamwinshi’ a Kinyarwanda expression, which
    politically came to mean ‘the Hutu majority’, prevailed after the so-called social revolution of 1959 ignored the basic tenets of democracy. In my view, recurrent genocides in Rwanda since 1959 were meant to maintain the ‘Hutu majority’ in power, by killing the Tutsi. Distributive justice became equivalent to regional and ethnic quotas; and revolution came to mean legitimised genocide of the Tutsis.

    Church authorities contributed to the spread of racist theories mainly
    through the schools and seminaries over which they exercised control. The elite who ruled the country after independence trained in these schools. According to Church historian Paul Rutayisire, the stereotypes used by the Hutu-dominated Rwandan government to dehumanise Tutsis, were also spread by some influential clergymen, bishops and priests, before and after the genocide. The Catholic Church and colonial powers orked together in organizing racist political groups like the Party for the Emancipation of the Hutu (Parmehutu).

    Mouvement Révolutionnaire National pour le Dévelopment (MRND) was the
    party which in the mid-1970s had introduced and institutionalised policies of racial discrimination which they termed “équilibre éthnique et régional” (ethnic and regional equilibrium, a quota system). The Church fully supported the quota system, but on 30 April 1990, five Catholic priests from Nyundo diocese broke the silence. In a letter to the Church’s bishops in Rwanda, they called the quota system ‘racist’ and urged that it was high time “the Church of Jesus Christ established in Rwanda proclaimed aloud and tirelessly” to denounce it, since it constituted “an aberration” within their Church. They maintained that the only sure justice in schools and employment was the one which only took account of individual capacities, regardless of people's origins, and that it was on this condition that the country could have citizens capable of leading it with competence and equity.

    In conclusion, they said: “The Church should not be the vassal of the scular powers, but it should be free to speak with sincerity and courage when it proves necessary.” The authors of this letter were Fr.Augustin Ntagara, Fr. Callixte Kalisa, Fr. Aloys Nzaramba, Fr. Jean Baptiste Hategeka, and Fr. Fabien Rwakareke. All but the last two were killed during the genocide.

    Within the Catholic Church, this discriminatory policy had long been in the seminaries. According to Fr. Jean Ndolimana, the enrolment of Tutsis in the Nyundo diocese was limited to 4%. On the school card, very seminarian had to indicate his father’s ethnic group. Instead of condemning those who were against the racist system, instead of playing an important role in institutionalising injustice by convincing their congregants to accept a morally reprehensible policy, Church leaders should have spoken out against racist discrimination. Regrettably the Church took the side of the political regimes, and thus was unable to exercise its prophetic role. It did not denounce political and social injustices, nor did it condemn the first mass killings, nor those which followed.

    It is difficult to describe the position taken by the institutional Church just before and during the genocide. It is appropriate to take note of a declaration made by some “Christians” who met in London in June 1996: “The church is sick. The historical roots of this sickness lie in part with the “mother churches”. She is facing the most serious crisis in her history. The church has failed in her mission, and lost her credibility, particularly since the genocide. She needs to repent before God and Rwandan society, and seek healing from God.” This diagnosis offers a good summary of the situation. The Church lacks a sense of remorse and therefore cannot repent; hence its active involvement, in my view, is the last stage of genocide – denial.

    Twenty-nine Rwandan Catholic priests, from Goma, Zaire, wrote a letter to the Pope in August 1994, demanding that the Rwandan government hould allow all refugees home and then hold a referendum to determine the country’s political future. The authors of this letter had no good programme for the country. All they wanted was to hold in contempt the Pope’s acknowledgment of the genocide. As early as 15 May 1994, the Pope had declared that the massacres in Rwanda were indeed genocide.

    The priests wrote to the Pope: “Everybody knows, except those who do not wish to know or understand it, that the massacres which took place in Rwanda are the result of the provocation of the Rwandese people by the RPF.” These priests, contaminated by the genocidal ideology, placed His Holiness the Pope in the category of “those who did not wish to know,” to cover up their own shortcomings and those of the government they served.

    Accepting failure is a virtue. Even so, it is difficult for institutions like the Catholic Church that are known to command respect world wide – above all when such institutions, have been party to policies of racial iscrimination and genocide. The Church decided to adopt silence and slander as defence mechanisms. The question is why the Vatican has accepted or tolerated such tendencies.

    The call for remorse and repentance still seems unnecessary and roblematical for the Catholic Church. In March 1996, Pope John Paul II told the Rwandan people, “The Church... cannot be held responsible for the guilt of its members that have acted against the evangelic law; they will be called to render account of their own actions. All Church members that have sinned during the genocide must have the courage to assume the consequences of their deeds they have done against God and fellow men.”

    Had this been accepted and done, it would have helped to end a culture of impunity that has characterised Rwanda for more than thirty-five years. This could have been an established warning to anyone who harboured the archaic racist ideology. It could have acted as a deterrent to foreign mentors, warning that continuation of such politics contravenes the principle of natural justice and is liable to be punished by law. Thirdly, it offers the only premises on which durable reconciliation; rehabilitation and reconstruction could take place or be cemented.

    I chose to write about the Catholic Church and the genocide in Rwanda because I would argue it was the only institution involved in all the stages of genocide. As a layperson, it is astounding to hear about the “love, truth and trust” that the Church has achieved in a country where genocide took more than a million lives in just a hundred days, and to see the institutional Church protecting, instead of punishing, or at least denouncing those among its leadership or in its membership who are accused of genocide.

    There is no doubt that throughout the history of Rwanda, Church leaders have had ties with political power. The Church was also involved in the policy of ethnic division, which degenerated into ethnic hatred. In order to succeed in its mission of uniting people, the Church in Rwanda and elsewhere must examine its attitudes, practices, and policies that have too often encouraged ethnic
    divisions.

    Church leadership should both be on the side of and be perceived to be
    on the side of justice and the victims of injustice rather than on the
    side of genocide perpetrators and deniers. The Church must remember
    what Dietrich Bonhoeffer said in his April 1933 essay, “The Church and
    the Jewish Question”.

    As he wrote, one way in which Churches could fight political injustices was to question state injustices and call the state to responsibility; another was to help the victims of injustice, whether they were church members or not. To bring an end to the machinery of injustice, he said, the Church was obliged not only to help the victims who had fallen under the wheel, but also to fall into the spokes of the wheel itself.

    Since justice is an unavoidable integral element of the process of
    reconciliation, the Church should be among those asking that the perpetrators of genocide be brought to justice. If the Church contributes to the process of justice, unity can be re-established among Rwandans, in general, and among Christians, in particular. It is the only way that the Church can restore its credibility, and thus be what it is called to be: a witness to faith, hope and love, to truth and justice. Only in this way will the Catholic Church in Rwanda be able to help save the people of Rwanda –all the people - from future suffering and bloodshed.

    Source: Genocide and the role of the Church in Rwanda
     
  7. Jile79

    Jile79 JF-Expert Member

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    na umekolezwa zaidi kipindi hiki cha kikwete huyu kiongozi dhaifu
     
  8. Jile79

    Jile79 JF-Expert Member

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    Ndiyo maana makundi ya kigaidi ni ya kikristo hata kwenye nchi za kiislamu

     
  9. Luteni

    Luteni JF-Expert Member

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    Unaweza kutuambia ni ki vipi kanisa lilianzisha udini Tanzania, ukifananisha Tanzania na Rwanda kuna watu watakuja na mifano mingi duniani ikiwamo Afghanistan, Iran, Yemen nk kote huko kunasababishwa na kanisa?, tuzungumzie nchi yetu.
     
  10. Ng'wanangwa

    Ng'wanangwa JF-Expert Member

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    so kama leo mtakuwa msktin mtakuwa mnazungumza habari za rwanda na kanisa tu badala ya kuswali.
     
  11. Jile79

    Jile79 JF-Expert Member

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    Ccm wanamchango mkubwa sana wa 96% kwenye kuleta udini tanzania?
     
  12. t

    tufikiri Senior Member

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    Wewe unaonekana kukosa maarifa kabisa, unasema Kikwete analazimishwa na Waislam kushabikia Uislam ndio maana WTZ hawakumpa kura.Then who are WTZ? Do u mean Wakristo. Then, unasema Waislam wakitaka kuishi kwa UKAFIRI wao wahamie nchi za Kiislam. Mm nafikiri wewe ungeanza kuhamia ROMA kwa sababu huridhishwi na mambo yanvyoenda, hasa baada ya PADRE kukosa Uongozi wa nchi. Makala yako imekosa CRTITICAL ARGUMENTATION, imesawili uLAYMAN wako na ushabiki wako wa KIDINI.
     
  13. Safari_ni_Safari

    Safari_ni_Safari JF-Expert Member

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    Sikujua kuwa vita ya Rwanda ilikuwa ya kidini....
     
  14. Matola

    Matola JF-Expert Member

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    Msaada tutani wakuu, naomba kuuliza tu, hivi kule somalia kuna kanisa vile? zile mahakama za kiislamu pale mogadishu wanachofanya unakijuwa, wanayofanya al qaeda, al shabab, islamic Jihad, je tuwafungamanishe waislamu wote kwenye kazia hiyo? au je ni haki conclude na tuiite dini ya kiislamu ni dini ya kigaidi? yaani exis of envil.
    Ni lini uliwahi kusikia Christian Jihad? kule Darful Sudan ninani anaewauwa waafrika weusi wenzetu?
    umaskini wa mawazo ndio umaskini mbaya zaidi kuliko ule umaskini wa mali, nadhani inabidi tuanze kwanza kupiga vita umaskini huu wa mawazo hapo ndipo tutafanikiwa kuuwondoa umaskini wa mali.
     
  15. Jackbauer

    Jackbauer JF-Expert Member

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    nani kakwambia huyo jamaa ni mkatoliki???hivi udini wa nchi hii ni ukatoliki vs uislamu.fikra zako ni finyu na unaonekana mwenye chuki za wazi dhidi ya ukatoliki.mimi ni mtoto kutoka familia ya mkatoliki+muislamu,sijawahi kuona chuki ya kidini kwenye familia yangu,uroho wenu(wanasiasa) wa madaraka uishie huko huko msihusishe wananchi.
    Onyo:siku mambo yakiharibika panga langu ntalielekeza kwa viongozi wanaohubiri udini,kamwe sitamuua jirani yangu.
     
  16. Mwanajamii

    Mwanajamii JF-Expert Member

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    Jambo linalonifanya kuwa na furaha ni kwamba vita ya kidini ikianza hata sisi tunaoshabikia suala hili hatutasalimika,

    wapo wataokufa,
    wapo watakapata vilema vya maisha,
    wapo wataokimbia nchi,
    wapo watakaopoteza ndugu zao wawapendao,
    wengi wetu tutakosa mahali pa kuabudu

    Wakati huo wale makuhadi wa propaganda za ubaguzi wa kidini watakuwa wamekaa pembeni kutuangalia tunavyouana kwa misingi ya kidini.

    Vita ya kidini daima haina mshindi bali baada ya kupita miaka mingi ya vita ya kidini waathirika wanakubali kukaa meza moja kuzungumzia amani. hapa ni baada ya kila mtu kuathirika vibaya

    Shiriki kwa nguvu zako zote kuzuia vita ya kidini kabla haijaanza. Ni kwa faida yako na kizazi chako kijacho.
     
  17. BONGOLALA

    BONGOLALA JF-Expert Member

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    Hembu tuangalie kwa sasa elimu,afya,ajira ni kundi lipi lipi lipo katika hali bora ukilinganisha na jingine?ni wazi kuwa waislam wapo nyuma katika mambo yote yaliyotajwa,mpaka mkapa kuwaonea huruma kuwa chuo walau kimoja morogoro.Hivyo udini kanisa unaolalamikia ni kejeli,kebehi,kuwasanifu waislam wajione wanafaidi na matunda ya uhuru walioupigania toka kwa muingereza na kumkaribisha nyerere kuongoza na baadae kuachwa solemba kwa kuundiwa chombo kisicho na tija kwao bakwata.
     
  18. Luteni

    Luteni JF-Expert Member

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    Nakuunga mkono; fikra zetu finyu ndizo zinazosababisha haya yakichochewa na viongozi kwa faida yao. Mawazo haya maovu akipewa mtu asiyefikiri sawasawa anaweza kuchukua panga na kumkata jirani yake bila sababu zozote. Sisi akiwemo Dar Es Salaam akichochewa na kuambiwa hata vita vya Rwanda vilisababishwa na kanisa anaweza kulichukia kanisa na inawezekana hata jirani yake akacha kusalimiana naye kama hatafikiri vizuri chanzo chake.
     
  19. Mwiba

    Mwiba JF-Expert Member

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    Nenda kasome Deuteronomy 17:12 ,mnaouwa vibibi vikongwe ndio nyinyi bible inawambia hivyo ,embu kasome Exodus 22:17 NAB na huyo aliesema eti tusilete mambo ya kuuwana na kupiga mawe aende akasome Leviticus 20:13 NAB ,naona hadi leo hamjamuuwa Shee Yaaya si mnaambiwa muwauwe embu kasome Leviticus 20:27 NAB ,wakiristo kibao wanawapiga baba zao ,hao mmeambiwa muwauwe Exodus 21:15 NAB kama haitoshi ,nikiongezea All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT.

    Na nyie msioijua dini yenu inasema hukumu gani fumbeni midomo yenu mkae kimya If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT) ,Hapa Uislamu unakosa gani ukitekeleza hukumu hiyo ??? Mkiambiwa mnaburuzwa na mahubiri ya uongo mnapiga makelele ,ni wapi katika dunia hii hukumu hiyo Wakirsto mmeitekeleza >Mnaona kosa Waislamu wakitekeleza ?

    Kubwa zaidi ni hili ambalo halimo katika dini yetu tukufu ya Uislamu pale msemamo kuwa wengine wote wasio sisi wanafaa kuuliwa embu soma uone ukatili ulio ndani yenu (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
     
  20. zomba

    zomba JF-Expert Member

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    Umeona mada ngapi zimeanzishwa hunu JF jana na leo zikinukuu kanisa kujiingiza kwenye siasa? Hizo kama si chokochoko za udini ni nini?

    Yes, nimenukuu ya Rwanda kwa kuonyesha kuwa hili kanisa ndio chanz cha balaa lote huko.

    Na hizo nchi nyingine zote ulizozitaja nadhani unaelewa ni nani alienda kuzivamia huko, sina haja ya kukufundisha hilo, ikibidi, ntakupa somo.
     
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