Tundu Lissu: Tunataka mafaili ya Muungano siyo picha za Nyerere na Karume

[Msema hovyo]

Hatutaki Muungano sisi. Hautusaidii chochote. Wapeni Wazanzibar uhuru wao bwana. Watanganyika bwana, mmeshikilia koloni lakini bado maskini wa kutupwa. Sasa yanini kuitawala Zanzibar ilihali hamneemeki kwa lolote? Wapeni uhuru wao ili wajitegemee. We are tired na hizi kelele za muungano kila kunapokucha.

 

[Taso]

Unataka kuwanyima Wazanzibari watoto wa Kinyamwezi? Au unakusudia kuwanyima wasukuma watoto wa Kipemba?

Yale yale, faida ya kuoleana!

Kwani kupata demu wa kipemba lazima awe Mtanzania? Huwezi kuomba visa ya kuingia Zanzibar ukaenda kuanjia mademu wa Kipemba Pemba? This is absolutely comical.

Kuvunja Muungano sio kutukana viongozi, ni kufuta michemko yao, na wao wanakubali: ""Ikiwa watu wa Zanzibar, bila ya kuingiliwa na watu wa nje na ikiwa wana sababu zao, wakaamua kuwa Muungano umekuwa kero kwa maisha yao, na kwamba hauna maslahi na wao sitowalazimisha kubakia na Muungano huo. Muungano huu utasita pale tu NCHI shiriki itakapoamua kujitenga" by Mwalimu Julius Kambarage Nyerere.

Hatuna cha asili moja na Wazanzibar, them chaps look and sound more Arabic than Bantu to me, asili moja imetoka wapi bana? Afadhali Wakenya tunafanana nao zaidi. Basi tuungane na Kenya!

Politically strong and united Africa haina maana nchi zote ziwe moja. Hivi nani atakuwa Rais wa Afrika? Omar Bashir au Mugabe?

Kama unasema unaamini mtashinda referendum ya Muungano, sasa kwa nini mnaiogopa?

Watanganyika na Wazanzibari waulizwe, Je Mnataka Muungano? Labda huku Bara, lakini kule baharini hilo swali halikatishi, wale Wanzanzibar na mimi hatutaki Muungano!

Huyo Bob Marley na nyimbo zake to me is not the wisest guy in the world, he believed the president of Ethiopia was God! I got advice for him too, smoking causes cancer.

 

[Candid Scope]

Lissu ahoji kuhusu Muungano

MBUNGE wa Singida Mashariki,Tundu Lissu (Chadema), ameishukia Wizara ya Muuungano na kuitaka itoe majibu ya kweli badala ya porojo kuwa Muungano ni mzuri. Lissu alisema hatua hiyo inatokana na ukweli kuwa Muungano ulizaliwa katika mazungumzo ya siri na utata mkubwa kutokana na shirikizo la Tanganyika kuhofia kuingia katika vita baridi kutoka kwa Mataifa makubwa duniani.

Akichangia hotuba ya makadirio ya bajeti ya Ofisi ya Makamu wa Rais Muungano katika mwaka wa fedha wa 2011/12, Lissu alisema haiwezekani suala la Muungano kuwa siri kwa sasa na kwamba kama kutakuwa na usiri wakati utafika wananchi watakosa uvumilivu kwani wengi wanahisi kuwa wanaburuzwa. Maswali aliyotaka yajibiwe ni pamoja kama wWananchi wanaukubali Muungano na Muungano wa aina gani uwepo.

"Nasema rejeeni waraka wa Abood Jumbe Mwinyi kuhusu Muungano, unasemekana wazi kuwa Hayati Mwalimu Nyerere alimshinikiza Karume ili asaini hati ya Muungano lakini bila ya kuwashirikisha watu wengine alisema wazi yule mzee. Hii ni hatari kubwa tena hatari hii iko mbele yetu na kwa vizazi vyetu, tunahitaji kurejea hayo makabati yafunguliwe ili tuone nini kilizungumzwa," alihoji Lissu. Akizungumza kwa hisia kali Mnadhimu Mkuu huyo wa kambi ya upinzani bungeni, alisema kuwa haiwezekani kwa akili ya kawaida nchi mbili kuungana wakati mojawapo ilikuwa na siku mia moja tangu izaliwe jambo linaloonyesha kuwa ilikuwa changa na haikuwa imejitafakari. "Tukihoji juu ya Muungano mnasema kuwa tunamtukana Nyerere, hii ni ajabu sana kwa nchi hii, lakini sote ni ndugu tumeungana kwa nia njema isipokuwa hata ndoa huwa zinavunjika,"alisema Lissu.

Alifafanua kuwa suala la kuukubali Muungano liliingizwa bungeni kwa hati ya dharura Juni 10 mwaka 1965 katika kikao cha 17 cha Bunge na aliyekuwa Waziri Mkuu, Rashid Kawawa na kwamba baadhi ya wabunge waliotaka kuhoji juu ya Muungano huo walinyamazishwa kutokana na misimamo ya viongozi waliokuwapo madarakani.

Kwa upande wake Mbunge wa Mkanyageni Habib Mnyaa (CUF), alisema kwa hali ilivyo, serikali inalazimisha Muungano wakati ikijua kuwa kuna matatizo makubwa ambayo yanafanya sura nzima ya Muungano isionekane.Hata hivyo mbunge huyo alihoji kama Muungano ni halali na kwamba picha ya Karume iko wapi wakati wa kuchanganya udongo Aprili 26 mwaka 1964. Mnyaa alisema kuwa serikali imekuwa ikiwachangaya wananchi kusema kuwa kuna kero za Muungano bila ya kujua wananchi walishagundua kuwa hiyo ni danganya toto kwani kilichopo si kero za Muungano bali ni matatizo ya Muungano.

Mwananchi

 

[Fuehrer]

Taso na Msema Ovyo

Inawezekana kuwa faida za kuwa na Muungano hamuzioni. Sasa, hebu tuelimisheni faida za kutokuwa na Muungano.

Dr Slaa nasema YES Muungano
Maalim Seif anasema YES Muungano
Mrema Anasema YES Muungano
JK Anasema YES MUUNGANO.

Wewe unaesema no, tupe hoja zako.

Huoni kwamba Viongozi wa Watanzania wote, wanaukubali Muungano?

Ushauri wa Bob Marley ni Mzuri; unaweza mfuata huko alipo ukampatie; ila he will remain a Legend and his art work contributed to the liberation struggle. We did not seek for liberalization so that we stand apart and scattered. We have to consolidate ourselves. HALAFU kuna comentator moja amesema eti Wazanzibari hawaonekani kama Wabantu; Wanaonekana kama Waarabu. Naomba nimuelimishe yafuatayo:-

1. Tanzania sio nchi ya Wabantu Peke yao. Kuna Nilotes, Cushites and Semites.
2. Utanzania wa mtu sio rangi ya mtu, dini ya mtu, kabila ya mtu au eneo analotokea katika Tanzania. Hakuna ubaguzi. Tanzania bara kuna greater ARAB, SOMALI and INDIAN population than ZANZIBAR. Na comment ya namna hio inaonyesha jinsi alivyokuwa haelewi mazingira.

 

[Taso]

...suala la kuukubali Muungano liliingizwa bungeni kwa hati ya dharura Juni 10 mwaka 1965 katika kikao cha 17 cha Bunge na aliyekuwa Waziri Mkuu, Rashid Kawawa na kwamba baadhi ya wabunge waliotaka kuhoji juu ya Muungano huo walinyamazishwa kutokana na misimamo ya viongozi waliokuwapo madarakani.

Hili tumelisema sana humu, Nyerere alikuwa anamtuma Rashidi kwenda Karimjee kuzima hoja huru za wabunge, alijitungia sheria. Lissu ahsante kwa kuona na kulisema hilo.

Mnyaa alisema kuwa serikali imekuwa ikiwachangaya wananchi kusema kuwa kuna kero za Muungano bila ya kujua wananchi walishagundua kuwa hiyo ni danganya toto kwani kilichopo si kero za Muungano bali ni matatizo ya Muungano.

Hili nalo tumeshalisema sana, kero ni pale nzi anapokuzunguka zunguka usoni au kelele za mbwa anaebweka bweka dirishani wakati umelala. Wabunge wanapopinga uhalali wa Muungano hiyo si kero, ni heck of a crisis. Muungano umetikisika, mnajifariji eti "kero," na tunauvunja!

... na kwamba picha ya Karume iko wapi wakati wa kuchanganya udongo Aprili 26 mwaka 1964.

hahahahaa..... watu wameamka sasa, tume grow up siku zote tunaonyeshwa picha mbili, ya kuchanganya mchanga na kusaini makaratasi, well, yako wapi hayo makaratasi? Hivi unawezaje kuwaficha wananchi document kama hati ya Muungano? Sasa tumechoka na tumeamka, tunauvunja!

 

[Brutus]

I'm just curious.. hivi wananchi wa Alaska, Texas or Louisiana wangeulizwa kama wangependa wawe part ya USA wangesemaje?

 

[Marytina]

Nyerere kwa Unyama wake na Chuki kwa Wazanzibari alizokuwa nazo ndio aliamua kwa Makusudi kumpeleka Hanga Zanzibar akijuwa kuwa anakwqenda Kuuliwa, ni yakusikitisha na hayatosahaulika haya ya Ushenzi alioyafanya Julius Nyrere kwa Wananchi wenzake, ilikuwa ni unyanyasaji wahali ya juu sikuile pale mnazi mmoja alipoletwa Abdalla Kassim Hanga akiwa na pingu mikononi Nyerere akimsusuika na Kumlaani katika Mkutano ule huku hanga akiwa uso chini, ilikuwa ni Unyonge wa hali ya juu kabisa, kisa ni Hanga kuwa ni rafiki wa KAMBONA.

acha ujinga!
Hanga aliuliwa vipi na Nyerere?
kama Karume alimpenda Hanga kwa nini asimtunze huko zenji bali kukimbilia kumuua?
karume aliwaandama sana wasomi wa zanzibar alizuia wazanzibar kusoma nje ya zanzibar.Karume hakuwa msomi jambo ambalo lilimpa wasiwasi sana

 

[Marytina]

Na ukisoma kwa makini sana kijitabu kuhusu muungano kilichoandikwa na Sheikh Aboud Jumbe kimebainisha wazi kuwa JK Nyerere ndio alilazimisha muungano kwa maslahi binafsina nchi yake Tanganyika lakini vile vile ukisoma kijitabu kuhusu muungano cha Prof Issa Shivji kimeweka wazi kabisa Muungano huu wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar hauna uhalali kwa aina yoyote iwe kisiasa au kisheria. Hivyo muungano huu ni batili. Na aliendelea zaidi kwa kusema Muungano huu si Muungano bali ni Mvutano.


Sasa Mimi nashauri WaTanganyika hapo mna nafasi kubwa kudai utaifa wenu na hilo litapelekea kuwe na taifa huru la Tanganyika kama ilivyo Zanzibar ndipo mengine yafuatwe.

Sioni sababu kuona aibu kuu discuss huo muungano kwa uwazi na upana wake wote ili kuondoa malalamiko ya pande zote.

Ahsantum Sana Tundu Lissu kupasua jipu. Wengine kazi kwenu

Be blessed
Kuna wazanzibar wanadhania wabara tunaupenda huu muungano kwa namna ulivyo na sasa watajua kuwa hata bara hatutaki aina hii ya Muungano.
Ukisoma posts za hapa JF utaona kuwa wabara wanajf wengi hawataki huu muungano so yale maneno ya muungano kwa matakwa ya bara yamepata majibu.

 

[Evergreen]

Muungano kama ulikuwa siri au wa uwazi it doesnt change the nature of it. Sioni sababu ya kulilia mafaili au makubaliano ya muungano hata kama kulikuwa na kikaratasi kimoja au pamphlet zima it makes no sense. Yeye kama ni 'pro' or 'anti' aje na sababu zake na haweke wazi sio siasa za kujificha nyuma ya pazia akiwa na agenda zake. Aseme wazi muungano ana uona vipi kabla ya kutaka kurushia watu hizi habari za kura za maoni ili kupima upepo wa fikra zake. Weka wazi msimamo toa na sababu za msingi; haitaji 'article of the union' to express his feelings on the matter. Nakupiginia kile anachokiona kwenye huu muungano. Siasa za kujificha ficha na kusubiri upepo ni dalili za u-coward.

Kama Muungano ulikuwa wa Siri au wa Uwazi does matter a lot! Kitu kinachofanyika kwa siri lazima kitakuwa kinafanywa kwa misingi isiyo ya haki,its absurdity to make such a conclusion that it doesnt make any difference,Ooh yes It does!!! I dont blv that Lissu insists on Opinion Polls ili kupima upepo wa Fikra zake,Lissu has proven over and over again that he has a fine mind,intelligent and patriotic and for that matter he doesnt need to hide anything!!! Now,stop this gimmick once and for all!!!

 

[AZIMIO]

Dah!kweli upinzani unafanya kazi yake safi sana CDM,bomu lingine baada ya kushinda la posho na hili litawaongezea pont kwa upande wa zanzibar.

 

[Bongolander]

kuna mtu anakumbuka majina ya vile vitabu mh. Lissu alivyokoti kimoja ni cha Prof: Issa Shivji na kingine ni cha Abdu Jumbe Mwinyi if i'm not mistaken pls msaada anayevikumbuka anitajie

Mkuu bila kujali Jumbe alisema nini au Karume alisema nini. Au bila kujali wanazuoni kama Prof Shivji au marehemu Prof Haroub walisema nini, inaonekana kuwa kwa sasa muungano una mahitaji mapya. Inawezekana kuwa wakati ule kulikuwa na haja ya kuwa na muungano, na kuna uwezekano kuwa kwa sasa kuna haja ya kuuvunja. Lakini swali la kujiuliza ni kweli wazanzibar wanataka muungano uvunjwe? ni wazanzibar wepi hao wanaotaka uvunjwe? wanaosema uvunjwe wanataja sababu gani? wanajua ni sababu zipi zilizotuunganisha?

Kuna notion kuwa Wazanzibar wanaojiona watakuwa better nje ya muungano, maana wanaona kuwa bara ni kikwazo cha maendeleo yao. Kuna wengine wanaona kuwa Zanzibar itajengwa kwa msingi wa misaada, na misaada haiwezi kupatikana kwa wingi kwa kuwa sehemu kubwa wanachukua bara. Kwa hiyo bara ni mzigo kwao na ni kikwazo cha maendeleo, wanaona kuwa Zanzibar itakuwa na maendeleo ikijitenga. Siamini kama wazanzibar wote nmi watu wa kutegemea misaada (matonya), au wanaona kuwa misaada ndiyo itawaletea maendeleo.

Kuna mtu pia aliwaongopea "wazanzibar" kuwa Zanzibar hasa pemba kuna mafuta, kwa hiyo wanasema wanataka wananufaike na mafuta yao bila kuingiliwa na bara, kwa kuwa bara wananufaika na dhahabu yao bila kuingiliwa. Ukweli ni kuwa ukichimba sehemu yoyote ile kwenye ardhi ya mwambao hata mita 200 kwenda chini unaweza kupata mafuta. lakini hawajui kuwa mafuta yanahitaji massive investment ambayo hakuna anayeweza kukubali kuwekeza bila kuirudisha( for sure there is no free lunch). Je waliowaahidi wazanzibar (kama kweli wapo) kuwa watawasaidia kuchimba mafuta hayo walifanya utafiti kuhusu uwepo wa mafuta hayo lini, au ndio hear say, ya mtu mmoja wa ulaya alisema yapo, au mtu mmoja wa Marekani alisema yapo!! na wanajua kuwa yatakuwepo kwa muda gani? yatalipa na kuendelea kulipa kwa miaka 10 ijayo? Kuna wanaofikiria hili?

Sasa hivi bara tunaonekana kama tunaishi kwa kuwategemea zanzibar, wakati ukweli ni kuwa muungano upo kwenye msingi wa usawa fulani, na kiundani zaidi ni kuwa Tanganyika ni kama imekufa.

Lakini kama sisi wabara ni kikwazo ni heri tuwaache ndugu zetu wajiendeleze kwa njia wanayotaka. hakuna ubaya Sudan kusini hao wanajitenga, naona Zanzibar wakijitenga itakuwa poa sana. Maana wapemba wote watakuwa foreigners, kule kariakoo wachanga wanaweza kuchukua ziloe biashara, na tunaweza kupata source ya forex kama Zanzibar wakipenda kununua kitu kutoka bara, itakuwa heri tu.

 

[CAMARADERIE]

Yes; ametaja kama majina matatu hivi, mawili ninayoyakumbuka ni Abdulrahman Babu na Kassim Hanga. Hawa ni kati ya watu ambao walidhaniwa kuwa tishio kwa Serikali mpya ya Mapinduzi hivyo kuwa na haja ya Muungano ili kuondoa hali tete. Angalau Babu sote tunajua mwisho wake ulivyokuwa lakini akina Hanga and et al si wote tujuao.

Aliyejua yalowapata marehemu OTHMAN SHARRIF na ABDALLAH KASSIM HANGA(Waziri Mkuu wa mwisho Zanzibar) ni marehemu KANALI SEIF BAKARI ambaye magamaba wa zamani walikuwa wanamuogopa mno

 

[Mwanajamii]

mmmmh mjadala huu wa muungano ni makali

 

[Sungi]

While I like the debates going on in parliament, I do not know, for example, this question of the 1964 Union being forcibly raised has any significance to wananchi. The nation has, I think, dire issues at end, the power crisis, the rise of the cost of living, and the general well-being of common people. So what if Mwl arbitrarily orchestrated unilaterally the Union of Tanganyika and Zanzibar, how does this shape the world view of the Tanzanians youth who the majority were not even born in 1964?

[h=2]Open Articles of Union to public, demand MPs[/h]


By Judica Tarimo



8th July 2011

Singida East MP Tundu Lissu



Some legislators debating the 2011/2012 Budget estimates of the Vice President’s Office have appealed to the Union and Zanzibar governments to make public all documents related to the formation of the April 26, 1964 Union between then Tanganyika and the Isles for their perusal and digestion.
The estimates were tabled in the national Assembly by Samia Suluhu Hassan, Minister of State in the Vice President’s Office (Union Affairs).
The MPs said had come for the two governments to unveil the said documents in a move to end controversy over the circumstances under which the Union came into being.
“Displaying the documents relating to the Union ‘contract’ is the only solution to the current complaints and outcries over the pact as signed by founding fathers Mwalimu Julius Kambarage Nyerere and Sheikh Abeid Amani Karume,” said Opposition Chief Whip and Singida East MP Tundu Lissu said as he contributed to the debate on Tuesday.
Discussions by legislators, politicians, academicians and ordinary citizens on the Union have run on for long, with many people pointing to what they saw as serious weaknesses in implementation.
Lissu urged the two governments to publicly disclose Union documents “to enable Tanzanians to scrutinise them, with a view to rectifying existing shortfalls and reshaping the modalities of implementing the Union agreement”.
The MP, a lawyer, submitted that the governments had failed to solve what he referred to as 22 critical problems in the 47-year old Union and that time had come to address the matter more seriously by making the relevant documents public.
“We need documents of the Union contract and not photographs of Nyerere and Karume mixing soils. Tanzanians need to understand how the two leaders reached the agreement so as to go on and think of how to move ahead with this Union in next 50 years,” he added.
He said both governments need to display the documents and ask the people of both sides of the United Republic of Tanzania “if they are still interested with the Union and the shape they would like it to take”.
Suggesting that the Union was secretly formed within 100 days after the Zanzibar Revolution (January 12, 1964), Lissu told a visibly puzzled House: “The secrecy in forming this Union did not allow representatives of the people to participate in its formation.”
He said the Union was formed under a certificate of emergency in the wake of pressure from big nations because of “the tense situation in the wake of the Zanzibar Revolution”.
According to the MP, the Union contract initially comprised only 11 Union matters, “but, surprisingly, 11 other matters were secretly added to the list - one being Finance, which has raised long-running complaints from Zanzibaris”.
CUF legislator (Mkanyageni) Mohamed Habib Mnyaa, concurred, wondering why Sheikh Karume is not seen in the photograph showing
Mwalimu Nyerere mixing soils from both sides of the United Republic in symbolic confirmation of the formation of the Union.
“I need the relevant minister to explain this issue. Why doesn’t Karume, a key partner in the formation of the Union, appear in the photograph? My children have been asking me this question for many years: Why is it only Mwalimu Nyerere who is seen in the photograph?” he queried further.
Ubungo legislator John Mnyika and several other MPs also pointed to perceived weaknesses in the structure of the Union, urging the Union and Zanzibar governments to work urgently on them and set the record straight in response to public outcries.



SOURCE: THE GUARDIAN

 

[JokaKuu]

..documents za nini?

..vunjeni tu muungano.

 

[Jasusi]

..documents za nini?

..vunjeni tu muungano.

Tumechoka na maneno mengi!

 

[galus saanane]

muungano wa tanganyika na zanzibar ni kuwnchi moja ... Toka lini NCHI MOJA IKAWA NA RAISI WAWILI?

 

[Fredrick Sanga]

JK aliwahi kusema kwamba Hati za Muungano zipo!

Zipo wapi leteni tuzisambaza kwa watanganyika.

 

[Utingo]

MUUNGANO=Nyerere kutaka ujiko wa kuiunganisha afrika (ndoto) + Wasiwasi wa karume kufanyiziwa na wenzake baada ya mapinduzi hivyo lazima apate ulinzi kutoka bara kwa Nyerere.

 

[Fredrick Sanga]

Hii iliwaliza akina Msekwa na Malecela. Walishesema serikali tatu au mmoja. Huu muungano haueleweki kabisa. two states forming one state and one cetral goverment. hebu angalia muungano wa USA.