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Tundu Lissu: Tunataka mafaili ya Muungano siyo picha za Nyerere na Karume

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by figganigga, Jul 6, 2011.

  1. figganigga

    figganigga JF-Expert Member

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    Kaongezea kwamba kuna maswali inabidi waulizwe watu wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar;

    1:je munahitaji muungano?

    2:je muungano aina gani munao utaka?.

    Kasema hiyo ndo itaiondoa ile zana ya kwamba huu Muungano ni wa Karume na Nyerere.mia
     
  2. k

    kibenya JF-Expert Member

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    nimeliskia jembe mkuu lissu amepasua jipu ambalo hata wanaolalamikia kerokero wameshindwa kulipasua mnyaa amebaki kuunga mkono hoja za lissu swali la mnyaa nalo zito eti kwanini Nyerere peke yake anaonekana kwenye picha anachanganya udongo na hakuna picha za karume mmh tusubiri serikali itajibuje imeshikwa pabaya
     
  3. Barubaru

    Barubaru JF-Expert Member

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    Apewe hakh yake UDSM mate wangu Engineer Habib Juma Mnyaa kwa suala zuri hilo.

    Hongera ammi.

    Ingawa Juzi aliniacha hoi sana alipozungumzia suala la Polisi miungu watu huko Geita na kuwataja bayana wapo sita na kutaka wahamishwe
     
  4. Echolima

    Echolima JF-Expert Member

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    BRAVOOOOOO Tundu Lisu umenena kweli wala hukuzunguka mbuyu kama wenye magamba wanavyofanya, Good-man call spade a spade.
     
  5. LordJustice1

    LordJustice1 JF-Expert Member

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    JK aliwahi kusema kwamba Hati za Muungano zipo!
     
  6. Bangusilo

    Bangusilo Senior Member

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    Alichosema Tindu Lisu nimekisikia, pia amegusia sababu ya kuundwa muungano 1964, na mambo mengine yeliyooongezwa kinyamela, ila kapasua jipu lingine kuwa muda mrefu muungano kuwa "hatuhitaji tena propaganda tunahitaji ukweli uwekwe hadharani".
    Maoni yangu, ikiwa ccm itaanguka upande wowote ule wa muungano katika uchaguzi, huo utakuwa mwisho wa muungano, sina matarajio yoyote ya ufumbuzi wa matatizo katika katiba mpya.
     
  7. Njowepo

    Njowepo JF-Expert Member

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    Jamani kuna majina alikuwa anayataja mwishoni nasikia hao jamaa wamepotea katika mazingira tata as walikuwa wanapinga muungano!Watu wana confidence ya kutaja mambo mazito.Big up Lissu watanzania tupo nyuma yako
     
  8. Bujibuji

    Bujibuji JF-Expert Member

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    Ccm haitadumu kwa kuwa haina watu kama Tundu Lissu
     
  9. jogi

    jogi JF-Expert Member

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    munyampaa lisu kiboko, anaonyesha sheria alisoma na kufuzu, iramba magharibi mbunge mchumi si waziri lakini anafanya kazi ya kuitetea serikali inayotufelisha uchumi wetu. hongera Tundu Lisu kwa uwakilishi sahihi, uishi muda mrefu
     
  10. dudus

    dudus JF-Expert Member

    #10
    Jul 6, 2011
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    Kweli kabisa mkuu; he was very clear and to the point. Hakumung'unya maneno; yaani ni mtu ambaye ukisikiliza maneno yake ukalinganisha na jinsi anavyoji-behave wakati anapotoa lecturer yake huna shaka kwamba ni mtu makini na anamaanisha anachokisema pasi na unafiki wowote - hata magamba wengine wakiongozwa na Sitta, Werema, Lukuvi, na Vita Kawawa niliwaona wakisikiliza lecture ya Lissu kwa umakini wa hali ya juu. Kwa uchache ameongelea yafuatayo:-

    (i) Muungano ulifanywa kwa usiri mkubwa, siku 100 tu tangu Mapinduzi ya Znz ukawa tayari.
    (ii) Hakuna chombo chochote cha uwakilishi wa wananchi kilichoshirikishwa katika kuundwa kwake.
    (iii) Uliundwa kwa dharura hasa kwa shinikizo la mataifa makubwa ya wakati huo pamoja na hali tete iliyokuwepo Visiwani mara baada ya mapinduzi.
    (iv) Mambo ya awali ya muungano (Articles of the Union - ambayo kimsingi ndio Muungano wenyewe) yalikuwa 11 lakini baadaye yakaongezwa kinyemela hadi kufikia 22 hivi sasa likiwapo suala la fedha.
    (v) Muungano sio kama suala la Musa (pengine hapa akimaanisha maandiko) ambayo hayahojiwi popote bali ni suala la Kaisari (pengine akimaanisha Sheria za nchi) ambao tuna haki ya kuhoji kila kitu na kwa uwazi.
    (vi) Mafanikio ya NYERERE na KARUME ni yetu sote vivyo hivyo na madhaifu yao hivyo tusione shaka wala aibu kuhoji na/au kukosoa.

    Sasa, ili kuondokana na kinachoitwa kero za Muungano na manung'uniko ya kila uchao; ameshauri mambo MAWILI ya msingi yafanywe kwa WANANCHI kuulizwa yafuatayo:-

    (i) JE, TUNAHITAJI MUUNGANO?
    (ii) KAMA NDIO, MUUNGANO WA AINA GANI (muundo)?

    Kimsingi amepasua jipu. Asante sana Mh. Lissu.

     
  11. kinyoba

    kinyoba JF-Expert Member

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    nilisikia uwezo wa Tundu Lisu peke yake ni sawa na uwezo wa wabunge 50 wa magamba. Lol! Kumbe kweli!
     
  12. mmbangifingi

    mmbangifingi JF-Expert Member

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    Ikiwa haya ndiyo kayasema mh Tundu nampa big up yeye na wabunge wote wa upinzani hasa cdm. suala la Muungano ni zuri sana tatizo wengi (watawala-ccm) hawajawa wanalizungumzia kwa uwazi ambao kimsingi ndo utatupelekea kumaliza kabisa hadithi za muungano na kero zake
     
  13. Bangusilo

    Bangusilo Senior Member

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    Tatizo wabunge wengi wa ccm ni njaa, hawawezi kuwa bold enough kuzungumzia issue sensitive yenye malsahi kitaifa, wako wapi wakina selelii?, hivyo tusitegemee jipya katika katiba mpya.
    Ikiwa walikubali wanasiasa wawe wasimamizi wa baraza la maadili la mahakama, hiyo tu inatupa picha wabunge wa ccm ni watu wanamna gani.
    Lingine nawashangaa sana wabunge wa ccm anachangia hoja na michango wote anayozungumza anapingana na hoja, mwishoni njaa inamjia anakumbuka aaaaah mie ccm, then anamalizia anaunga mkono hoja, hao ndio wabunge wa ccm, a.k.a waganga njaa
     
  14. F

    FJM JF-Expert Member

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    Sina hakika kama ccm kupitia kwa wabunge wake wanaelewa athari ya hili bomu walilorushiwa na CHADEMA kupitia kwa mnadhimu wao Lissu. Kwa muda mrefu malalamiko ya muungano yamekuwa upande wa Zanzibar zaidi kuliko Tanzania Bara. Na kati ya vitu ambavyo wanzanzibari wamekuwa wanadai ni uhalali wa kimaandishi yaanni documents za makubaliano ya muungano, na pili mambo yaliyokubaliwa kwenye muungano (11 vs 22). Na hata matukio ya siku za nyuma za kuchoma muswada wa mchakato wa katiba mpya huko Zanzibar ulitokana na kero hizo mbili kutojibiwa (for years!)

    Sasa CHADEMA kupitia Bunge la Jamhuri wameutangazia umma wa Wanzanzibari kuwa wanaunga mkono hoja zao. Kwa wale waliokuwa wanauliza kukubalika kwa CHADEMA Zanzibar, hii hoja ya Lissu inaweza kuwa HODI ya nguvu kwa chama hiki visiwani. Je, itatibu UBUBU wake na kukubali hoja ya Lissu. Kwa upande mwingine, CCM kama wanataka KUFUTIKA Zanzibar basi WAKATAE hoja za Lissu (they will vanish).
     
  15. Pukudu

    Pukudu JF-Expert Member

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    hivi yale majina aliyoyataja ni wakinani wale! Mh anaehafahamu atujuze
     
  16. dudus

    dudus JF-Expert Member

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    Yes; ametaja kama majina matatu hivi, mawili ninayoyakumbuka ni Abdulrahman Babu na Kassim Hanga. Hawa ni kati ya watu ambao walidhaniwa kuwa tishio kwa Serikali mpya ya Mapinduzi hivyo kuwa na haja ya Muungano ili kuondoa hali tete. Angalau Babu sote tunajua mwisho wake ulivyokuwa lakini akina Hanga and et al si wote tujuao.
     
  17. Eric Cartman

    Eric Cartman JF-Expert Member

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    Muungano kama ulikuwa siri au wa uwazi it doesnt change the nature of it. Sioni sababu ya kulilia mafaili au makubaliano ya muungano hata kama kulikuwa na kikaratasi kimoja au pamphlet zima it makes no sense.

    Yeye kama ni 'pro' or 'anti' aje na sababu zake na haweke wazi sio siasa za kujificha nyuma ya pazia akiwa na agenda zake. Aseme wazi muungano ana uona vipi kabla ya kutaka kurushia watu hizi habari za kura za maoni ili kupima upepo wa fikra zake. Weka wazi msimamo toa na sababu za msingi; haitaji 'article of the union' to express his feelings on the matter. Nakupiginia kile anachokiona kwenye huu muungano.

    Siasa za kujificha ficha na kusubiri upepo ni dalili za u-coward.
     
  18. h

    hereiamnow Member

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    kweli kabisa. Hapo umenena. Ccm hamna kitu!
     
  19. Lunyungu

    Lunyungu JF-Expert Member

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    barubaru yaani mnyaa akaomba wahamishwe na kama wana makosa basi wasishitakiwe au sijakuelewa maalim
     
  20. Pukudu

    Pukudu JF-Expert Member

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    kuna mtu anakumbuka majina ya vile vitabu mh. Lissu alivyokoti kimoja ni cha Prof: Issa Shivji na kingine ni cha Abdu Jumbe Mwinyi if i'm not mistaken pls msaada anayevikumbuka anitajie
     
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