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Tumpatie Gaddafi hifadhi ya ukimbizi kama akiomba?

Discussion in 'International Forum' started by EMT, Sep 3, 2011.

  1. EMT

    EMT JF-Expert Member

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    Algeria bado haijaitambua NTC. Hata hivyo, kuna taarifa kuwa Rais wao Abdelaziz Bouteflika amekataa kupokea simu za Gaddafi kama njia ya kumkwepa Gaddafi anayeweza kuomba hifadhi ya ukimbizi baadae. Gazeti la Algeria kwa jina El Watan limekariri source iliyo karibu na Rais Bouteflika ikisema hii sio mara ya kwanza kwa Gaddafi na watu wake wa karibu kujaribu kuwasiliana na Rais kwa majadiliano.

    Lakini source inasema position ya Algeria iko "clear and neutral, we refuse to interfere in Libyan affairs.” Source inadai ndio maana hawajapinga bendera ya NTC kupeperushwa kwenye ubalozi wa Libya nchini Algeria kwa sababu kufanya hivyo ingekuwa ni sawa na ku interfere na mambo ya ndani ya Libya. Hata hivyo, katika negotiations, Algeria imekubali familia ya Gaddafi kuingia nchini humo.

    Kupitia Waziri wetu wa mambo ya nje, Mh Membe, amesema Tanzania inajua wazi kwamba hatima ya Gaddafi kuongoza Libya imekwishafikia mwisho. Hata hivyo, amesema Tanzania haiwezi kuitambua NTC kwa kuwa bado hawajaunda serikali. Kwa sababu hiyo, Membe amefanikiwa kuushinikiza ubalozi wa Libya Tanzania kushusha bendera ya NTC na kupandisha ile ya utawala wa Gaddafi.

    Kwa vile Tanzania inajua wazi kwamba hatima ya Gaddafi kuongoza Libya imekwishafikia kikomo na kwa kuwa Tanzania imesema haiwezi kuitambua NTC mpaka watakapoanzisha serikali, vipi kama Gaddafi akitua Tanzanzia, tunaweza kukubali au kukataa kumpa hifadhi kwa vigezo vipi?
     
  2. Mwita25

    Mwita25 JF-Expert Member

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    1.Tanzania ni signatory wa ICC
    2. Tanzania inapokea misaada mingi kutoka US, kwahiyo itaharibu mahusiano.
    3. AU wanaweza kutusaliti
    4. Mwalimu alishawahi kumuita Gaddafi gaidi
    5.Gaddafi alishaapa kutokanyaga Tanzania
    6. Mizimu ya Gaddafi haipo Tanzania
    7. Kenya wameitambua serikali ya waasi kwahiyo wanaweza kutugeuka
     
  3. kapotolo

    kapotolo JF-Expert Member

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    Mlivyo Matonya mnaogopa kuwaudhi mabwana zenu
     
  4. EMT

    EMT JF-Expert Member

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    Nafikiri Tanzazania imepokea misaada mingi toka Libya kama hii article inavyosema:

    ......The collapse of the regime in Tripoli would also raise apprehension over several projects worth billions of shillings that Gaddafi had promised to implement in several African countries, including Tanzania. The Libyan leader had pledged to establish an ultramodern complex, mosque and college in Dar es Salaam following a successful example in Dodoma. A foundation stone for the Dar es Salaam centre was laid last year by retired President Ali Hassan Mwinyi.

    One of the believers in Gaddafi's leadership is the Chief Sheikh of Dodoma Region, Mustafa Rajab Shabaan, who also doubles as the manager of the Sh6 billion Gaddafi Education Centre and Mosque located in the city. The imposing 3,000 capacity facility inaugurated last year by President Jakaya Kikwete is a picturesque architectural gem; the only one of its kind in the country and only rivalling the one Mr Gaddafi built and officially opened in Uganda over a year ago.

    The Dodoma mosque and centre is thus a constant reminder of the hitherto great efforts that went into anything that Libya and Gaddafi in particular undertook to roll out either in his endeavour to serve humanity or seek loyalty far and wide. ....... The Muslim leader said several parties, including other denominations that are benefitting from the Gaddafi facility in Dodoma and the government have been extending invaluable support.

    "What Colonel Gaddafi did here was for all humanity and the goodwill that we receive will sustain the centre," said the Sheikh, who received his four years study in Libya. He noted that the cost of running the centre was about Sh10 million every month in salaries and other expenses.

    He said any help that they received was not from the Libyan leader personally, but through the World Islamic Call Society (WICS) that was established in that country to work with many other people around Africa and elsewhere to reach out to the needy. The WICS Secretary General Dr Muhammad Ahmed Sharrif was among those who witnessed the opening of the Dodoma mosque and conveyed a congratulation message from Col Gaddafi. "The society is stable because it is a reputed Islamic institution worldwide and it is our hope that God willing we will continue working together. It is through this organ that many outstanding mosques and learning centres have been built to serve."

    ........ Other than the mosque, the Gaddafi Centre in Dodoma has enrolled nearly 300 students in various courses, including Arabic language, tailoring, computer skills and studies in the Muslim doctrines. A Libyan national and Arabic language professional, Mr Khamis Ali Barawa has been seconded to the Centre. The construction of the premises that also comprises a dispensary began in 2007 and was completed in January 2010. However Sheikh Shabaan said services at the dispensary had not begun due to incomplete preparations.

    In Dar es Salaam, officials of the National Muslim Council of Tanzania (Bakwata) did not wish to comment on the fate of the planned ultra modern complex and college in view of the uprising in Libya. The multi-billion project that would also serve as Bakwata headquarters was expected to kick off any time.

    Gaddafi
     
  5. WAHEED SUDAY

    WAHEED SUDAY JF-Expert Member

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    Viongozi wetu waoga wanahisi wakimkaribisha huyu bwana anaweza kufanya mapinduzi kwa jinsi wananchi wanavyoteseka kuliko wa nchini kwake
     
  6. D

    Dopas JF-Expert Member

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    Ghadafi si ndiye aliyemsaidia Idd Amini wakati wa vita ya Tz na Uganda?
    Kama sio yule rubani aliyeelekeza ndege iliyotoka Libya kutua Dar badala ya Nairobi si tungezungumza mengine kuhusiana naye? Any way hata kama tulimsamehe, tusimpokee.
    Wenye tamaa ya madaraka ndicho kiwapatacho. Ona mobutu, Iddi Amin na wengine, mwisho atazikwa kama mbwa pamoja na kutawala miaka zaidi ya 40. Na mali alizojikusanyia itakuwa ya nani? Italiwa na mchwa.
     
  7. mshikachuma

    mshikachuma JF-Expert Member

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    Hivi kumbe una akili timamu ila huwa unajichetua makusudi tu? anyway nimependa comment yako mkuu!
     
  8. Arafat

    Arafat JF-Expert Member

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    EMT, watawala wetu ni zaidi ya popo! hata hatuwezi kujuwa wanachoweza kufanya maana siku zote tunaishi kwa matakwa yao binafsi na hatuna mjadala wala jinsi, kama alivyofanya Membe kuingiza nchni na wananchni wote katika sakata la kushusha bendera ya NTC kana kwamba hayo ndiyo matakwa ya nchni ndivyo wanavyoweza kufanya lolote ilimradi muhusika ni yule aliyefaidi kiasi gani na mwenye maslahi binafsi kiasi gani na Qadhaffi.

    Swala la kuitambua au kuikana NTC ninge iunga mkono angalao kama Bunge lingehusishwa kufikia maamuzi maana Membe ajue hata hakifa leo NTC na Walibya wameweka katika record zao kuwa Watanzania wameshusha bendera yao, hawasemi Membe ndio kashusha au Kikwete wanasema Watanzania, na kama ni chuki yoyote katika medani ya kimataifa kila mwana Libya kila akimwona mtu yeyote anayejiita Mtanzania hisia ya kwanza itakayo mwijia ni kuwa hawa ndio walioshusha Bendera yetu. Ukiangalia swala la Libya lilivyo hakuna nchni yeyote yenye viongozi makini wanaoweza kusema na kufanya kosa alilofanya Membe adharani, maana lilikuwa jambo la UN na organs zake zote.

    Hawa watu wavivu kufikiri watatuletea matatizo mengi sana, maana wanaangalia mwisho wa upeo wa meza zao ofisini kana kwamba ndio ncha ya dunia. Walipaswa kuweka misamamo yao wazi tokea mwazo na hata kama vipi basi wangeenda kupambana vitani. NTC siyo watu wa kuuza katika medani ya Kimataifa, ni watu ambao UN inawatambuwa na wamepata full support ya UN hatua kwa hatua hivyo mtu anaye wapuuza anaonyesha yeye mwenyewe alivyo mpuuzi, hii dunia ya leo huwezi kufanya lolote bila Jumuiya ya Kimataifa.

    Wajiadae kulipa fedha za Libya najuwa ndio kitakacho fuata hapo, baada hao watu kuunda serikali lazima UN na NATO itawasaidia kuakikisha kila nchni ambayo inafedha za Libya izirudishe, record this waliokuwa adui wa NTC ndio watakaolambishwa pilipili kali kwanza.



    ,
     
  9. Mwita25

    Mwita25 JF-Expert Member

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    <br />
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    Sasa hapo umenisifia au umeniponda kiaina
     
  10. Biohazard

    Biohazard JF-Expert Member

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    Vizuri sana ni wachache wanatambua hilo
     
  11. EMT

    EMT JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu Uganda imeonyesha kukubali kumpatia Gaddafi hifadhi ya kisiasa kama ataomba. Najaribu kufikiria mixed feelings watakazokuwa nazo Waganda ukizingatia alimsaidia Idd Amin.
     
  12. Somoche

    Somoche JF-Expert Member

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    Mijitu mizima haiwezi kujisimamia mara ohh Misaada, ohh tutabaki wenyewe ooh Ghadaff alipiga bukoba ooh hili bla blaa kibao the issue here is western colonialist are desperately in need of Libyan Oil!!! na wote mnajua hivi nyie mnaosema Ghadaff mbaya si na nyie mna dhahabu?!! mbona hata vitanda tu kwenye hosptali halkuna?!!! Africans must stand against the new colonisation of this Continent otherwise we are done!!

    You must feel the sense of being black African and be proud of it come rain/ sun!! this is our Continent and we thank GOD for being here!! wake up you people how can u allow this to happen before your eyes!!! i Support the Libyans..i support Muamar Ghadaff...
     
  13. Mwita25

    Mwita25 JF-Expert Member

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    <br />
    <br />
    Hata sijaona kitu kimoja chenye uhusiano na swali la mleta mada zaidi ya makelele mengi yaliyochanganyika na harufu ya chibuku+konyagi+dengelua+wanzuki
     
  14. Petiro

    Petiro JF-Expert Member

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    Tanzania kamwe isiwe kimbilio la madictector kama ghadafi na hiyo misaada yake hatuitaki. Wakati wa vita ya Kagera aliua ndugu zetu na kutusababishia uchumi kuporomoka hadi leo hii tunaona madhara yake. Misaada ya kujenga misikiti hatuihitaji kwani waislamu na waTZ wote kwa pamoja tuna maadui watatu Umaskini, Ujinga na Maradhi na sio dini. Sasa atavuna kile alichopanda
     
  15. MwanaFalsafa1

    MwanaFalsafa1 JF-Expert Member

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    Sioni faida ya kumhifadhi Gaddafi. Aende kwenye nchi ambazo zina utawala kama wakwake ulioangushwa.
     
  16. Mtazamaji

    Mtazamaji JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu mimi naomba nitofautiane na wewe kidogo katika maelezo yako

    Kwanza Tanzania kupitia membe hajasema haiwezi kamwe uitambua NTC. yale maneno yanaenda na muda na events. Membe alisema hawatumbui NTC kwa kipindi hiki amacho bado sitution ni volatile. Hiyo haimaanishai kwamba mamb yakistabilise hata wao waasi wakawa stable basi eti hatutawatambua. Japo nchi yetu ni ndogo na haina role kubwa kwenye mambo ya kimataifa hatutakiwi tu kufuata mkumbo tu . So mpaka hapo membe alikuwa sawa.

    Kitendo cha kuwaagiza washushe bedera ni sahihi. Sabau hata hao NTC jina lao linajieleza....... Wht if
    • baada ya mwezi ai miezi adhaa waasi wakigawanyika kila mmoja akawa na bendera yake. ?
    • Mwezi au miwli ijayo libya inagwanyika kunakuwa na libya tripoli na libya benghazi? Balzi ya Tanzania itaiwa ni ya libya ipi?
    Kuhusu kumpa Gadaffi hifadhi inakuwa ngumu sababu ya ICC. Lakini kwa njia moja au nyingine Kumpa Gaddfai hifadhi kwa vigezo na masharti fulani kunawea kustabilize zaidi sitution ya libya.

    Mfano Algeria Tanzania au nchi yeyote ya africa. wanaweza kuwasiaid walibya kama wakikubali umuhifadhi gadaffi. Mradi gadaffi akubali akiingia tu hatojiuhusiha na siasa za libya tena .Then hata hao NTC wanaweza kukubalina na algeria au nchi yeyote .kwa manufaa ya pande zote mbili.......... . lakini issue inabaki ni ICC.

    Anachokabiliwa nacho gaddfi ni kama alichokuwa nacho Chalres taylor. Winigeria walikubalikumpa hifadhi lakini masharti ya ICC na wafadhili yakawaidi nguvu.

    BInafsi naona if it was not for ICC na kama kumhost Gaddfi kutasaidia amani zaidi ya libya na gddafi anakubalinaa na mahsarti tutayompa basi ni wazi hata Tanzania inatakiwa kumfikiria. ....
     
  17. EMT

    EMT JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu stance yetu sidhani kama ina reflect what is going on the ground. Tayari members 78 wa UN wameitambua NTC. NTC umeomba kuchukua kiti cha Libya UN. Japokuwa mpaka mwanzoni mwa mwezi huu technically bado UN inautambua utawala wa Gaddafi kama serikali inayotambuliwa kisheria, website ya Mission ya UN Libya imeweka sio tuu bendera ya NTC bali pia statements toka kwa NTC.

    NTC wamekutana na UN officials mara nyingi. Mwakilishi wa UN kwenye Libyan Contact Group amesema the UN would work with "Libyan authority" to help Libya transition toward democracy. Sidhani "Libyan authority" alikuwa akimaanisha utawala wa Gaddafi.

    Nafikiri UN General Assemby inakutana mwezi huu na itakuwa njia nzuri kwa Tanzania na nchi nyingine zinazopinga NTC kusimama kidete kutetea sera zao za nje kwa kukataa NTC kuchukua kiti cha Libya UN. Yasiishie humu ndani tuu.
     
  18. Arafat

    Arafat JF-Expert Member

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    EMT Museven anajuwa jinsi ya kuchanga karata zake siku zote naweza kusema ni mtu ambaye anatizama nyuma na mbele. Kumbuka kuwa kabla ya Qadhaffi kupatwa na dhahama hiyo alikuwa na mivutano ya mara kwa mara na Qadhaffi na hata walikuwa hawa aminiani kabisa lakini sasa ujuwe Museven siku zake zimefika hivyo nadhani naye anatafuta jinsi na stahili ya kuondoka nayo, kumbuka aliibuka na ile issue ya Migingo lakini halikumsaidia sasa bado lazima atafute sababu nyingine maana baada ya Qadhaffi kama haifuati Uganda basi Tanzania lazima wasaidiane maana mwisho wao upo pamoja. Tanzania kitakacho kutusaidia ni kuwa Tatizo ni la Kichama siyo mtu, hivyo wakipanga vyema wanaweza kuruka ila Museven havuki laima sasa ni zamu yake na yeye anajuwa hilo.
     
  19. Arafat

    Arafat JF-Expert Member

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    Kwanini hawakufanya hivyo kabla ya Qadhaffi kudhoofishwa kivita?

    Mbona hawakusimama kidede kupinga hiyo vita kwa uwazi na kuweka misimamo yao wazi?
     
  20. EMT

    EMT JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu suala langu ni kuwa position tuliyochukua ni ngumu kama Gaddafi akitua Tanzania sasa hivi na kuomba hifadhi. On one hand, tumesema tunajua wazi kwamba hatima yake kuongoza Libya imekwishafikia mwisho. On the other hand, hatuitambui NTC kwa kuwa bado hawajaunda serikali. Kwa hiyo kwa sasa (sio baadae) tunatambua "authority" ipi kama Libyan legimate authority? Au kwa kusema hivyo Membe alikuwa na maana kuwa kwa sasa hakuna "authority" inayoongoza au ku- represent the Libyan people? Do you really think this is what he wanted to convey?

    Akija sasa hivi wakati hali ikiwa bado viotale kama ulivyosema, tutampokea kama kiongozi mkuu wa Libya wakati tumekwishasema hatima yake ya kuongoza Libya imekwishafikia mwisho? Kama tutampokea kama kiongozi wa sasa Libya, tutaweza kumpa conditions za kutojihusisha na siasa za Libya? Lakini kwa vile tayari tumekwishasema hatima yake ya kuongoza Libya imekwishafikia mwisho, si tutampokea kama kiongozi wa zamani wa Libya? Kama tutampokea kama kiongozi wa zamani wa Libya na kumpa masharti ya kutojihusisha na siasa za Libya, bado tutaendelea kulazimisha ubalozi wa Libya kupeperusha bendera ya utawala wa zamani wa Gaddafi?

    Kuhusiana na suala la ICC sijui linaingiaje hapa wakati Tanzania ni moja ya mataifa 53 ya Kiafrika ambayo kwa pamoja chini ya the African Union walipitisha uamuzi wa ku regard Gaddafi arrest warrant issued by the ICC as a hoax? Kwa hiyo leo akitua Tanzania tutampeleka staright to the ICC wakati tulishasema we don't recognise Gaddafi warrant kwa vile ICC inaonekana kama chombo kinacho target Waafrika tuu? Huoni kama huku ndio Tanzania kujichanganya kabisa?
     
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