Aliyeanzisha Udini Tanzania ni Nyerere

[Mrdash1]

Embu tujiulize maswali haya;
Endapo kama Nyerere angelikua mdini
1. Angetaifisha mali mbalimbali za mashirika ya kidini ya kuruhusu yatumike kwa watu wote bila kujali dini!?
2. Angei put Zanzibar under Tanganyikas' wings??
3. Angekubali kumkabidhi nchi Ally Hassan Mwinyi???
Fikiria!!

Usimtegemee Profkobayashi au watu wenye mtazamo kama wake wafikirie, wanachojua wao ni ubishi, uzushi, udanganyifu, usingiziaji na upoteshaji wa ukweli. |Kujadiliana nao ni kama kumpigia mbwa kengele, don't waste your precious time.

 

[BinMgen]

Kuna watu humu wana chuki za kutisha dhidi ya Mwalimu. Hawako tayari kukubali lolote lile zuri lililofanywa na Mwalimu wakati alipokuwa madarakani tangu tunapata uhuru mwaka 1961 mpaka anang'atuka mwaka 1985. Kwa wao hawa yaliyofanywa na Mwalimu miaka yote hiyo aliyokuwa madarakani ni mabaya tu tena ya kuwandakamiza Waislamu na pia kuyabagua baadhi ya makabila, kitu ambacho hakina ukweli wowote.

Ni kweli mkuu! Lakini sio humu tu, kuna watu hawakufurahia lolote la Nyerere ispokua kifo chake

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Nyerere aliwahi kunukuliwa kusema katika mahojiano ya 1976 kuwa Wasukuma na Wanyamwezi wangeweza kujenga taifa lao na watu wa pwani vilevile.

 

[Avatar Myg]

Hakuna kilichomsukuma kuivamia Zanzibar kama si udini.

Explain!

 

[Mrdash1]

Jee, unaweza kutupa data za Wakristo wangapi, wa katoliki wangapi na waislaam wangapi kwenye baraza la mawaziri wa nyerere?

serkali ya zanzibar na baraza la wawakilishi lina wakiristo wangapi? tupe data jinsi karume senior, na marais wengine waliomfuatia walivyoleta usawa huko zanzibar.

 

[BAK]

serkali ya zanzibar na baraza la wawakilishi lina wakiristo wangapi? tupe data jinsi karume senior, na marais wengine waliomfuatia walivyoleta usawa huko zanzibar.

Nyani siku zote haoni **********

 

[Sooth]

Huyu mtu aliyeleta hii maada si mtu makini maana kuanzia thread mpaka response kwa baadhi ya posts ame-copy na kupaste kutoka kitabu cha Mwembechai Killings, bila ku-acknowledge source (isipokuwa kwenye thread yenyewe) wala kuongeza kitu chake mwenyewe. Amejibu kana kwamba majibu hayo ni yake mwenyewe, kumbe kayatoa kwenye kitabu.

Nina heshima sana kwa walionizidi kielimu, maana naelewa nini maana ya kwenda shule. Lakini Prof. Njozi ameandika hiki kitabu kwa ushabiki mkubwa sana. Hakionyeshi kama ni mtu aliyekuwa anafanya utafiti huru, inaonekana ni mtu tayari alikuwa na msimamo fulani, halafu akaenda 'kuokoteza' data ili kuhusianisha na kile anachoamini. Kitabu kimejaa hadithi na hearsay ambazo haziwezi kuthibitishwa. Kimejaa "quote of a quoted quote", fulani alisema hivi, vile n.k. Sitashangaa kama kitabu chote kimeegemea kwenye qoutes kama "I failed! Let us admit it" ambayo haipo popote zaidi ya kwenye vichwa vilivyo kariri.

Hakuna haja ya kufanya utafiti kama tayari unajua nini unachotafuta. Kitabu kinaonyesha 'bias' ya wazi na kwa mtu ambaye amekuwa katibu wa MSAUD (UDSM) kwa miaka kadhaa, inawezekana hakuwa independent wakati anatafiti na kuandika. Kwangu mm sioni tofauti na padre akiandika kitabu kuponda imani nyingine, maana mwamba ngoma huvutia kwake. Pamoja na mambo mengine kumhusu Nyerere, kitabu hiki (Mwembechai Killings)kina element ya uchochezi. Kwa mfano, mwandishi anagusia kwamba mapanga yatumike kukabiliana na wanao 'wadhulumu' waislamu, yaani wasio wakristo na ndo maana kimefungiwa kuuzwa hapa Tanzania. Ajabu ni kwamba watu wanatumia content za kitabu hicho kuchochea watu na bado hakuna hatua inayochukuliwa.

Hii kampeni dhidi ya Nyerere imefanikiwa kwa kiasi kikubwa sana.Nyerere ana influence kwa waTZ wengi sana. Naamini strategist wa mpango huu walitaka tuwe busy kupinga hizi hoja za uongo huku tukisahau kuiwajibisha serikali iliyopo madarakani kwa kushindwa kuonyesha uongozi ktk matatizo mbalimbali yanayotukabili. Imagine, watu hawaongelei mgao wa umeme ambao sasa umeongezwa makali, wanaongelea mtu aliyestaafu 1985. Hutawasikia wakiongelea wanyama waliotoroshwa juzi juzi KIA, wala hutasikia wakipaza sauti kwa ajili ya wanafunzi wa shule za kata wanaofeli vibaya. Haya yote wanataka tusahau, na kweli wamefanikiwa.

 

[fazili]

Lakini wewe umeona wapi katika katiba ya tz mistari ya biblia au sala za Mt Fransis? Hiyo christian guidance in the political teachings iko wapi kwenye katiba? Acha religious extremism wewe utakufa bure na hata akhera utafika!

 

[GJ Mwanakatwe]

Sasa kama angepandikiza udini miaka hamsini iliyopita hilo zao la udini liko wapi mbona hatulioni, wacha fikra za udini weye.

 

[Kichuguu]

Katika maandishi yote ya Hamza (aliyesomeshwa na Nyerere), reference kubwa anayotumia dhidi ya Nyerere na kuimarisha mlengo wake wa udini ni maandishi ya Sivalon. Hamza hajawahi kuwa na reference zaidi ya hiyo. Halafu pia Hamza amekuwa ni msomi dhaifu sana kwa sababu amekuwa anachukua quotes mbalimbali out of context, hasa ukzingatia kuwa yeye ni mwalimu wa linguistics. Kwa mfano, Hamza anapodai kuwa Nyerere alijenga taifa la ukatoliki kinyume cha katiba pale alipowajibu watu wa dini kuwa siasa yake inakubaliana na mafundisho yao ya dini ni kuoneysha kuwa ama Hamza ana upeo mdogo sana wa kupambanua ujumbe au ni shabiki anayetaka kujenga hoja kinyume na ujumbe anaonukuu.

Nyerere katika hotuba zake mbalimbali aliwahi kutumia mifano ya hadithi za kufikiria ( kwa mfano aliopsema "Sintageuka jiwe "), matukio halisi ya kihistoria, hadithi za kwenye vitabu vya dini ili kufafanua hoja yake. Mifano aliyotumia siyo sera, bali ni mifano tu ya kusaidia kufafanua sera zake, na ningetegemea profsa mzima ajue hilo. Lakini Hamza haoni hilo; well hao ndio maprofesa wetu wa Dar es Salaam.

Ninawasiwasi sana kama huyu Profesa Hamza anawafundisha kwa nia njema watu wasiokuwa waislamu, hasa wakatoliki.

 

[FaizaFoxy]

serkali ya zanzibar na baraza la wawakilishi lina wakiristo wangapi? tupe data jinsi karume senior, na marais wengine waliomfuatia walivyoleta usawa huko zanzibar.

Ushasema Serikali ya Zanzibar, Zanzibar population ni 99% waislaam, what do you expect? Una compare ma apple na ndimu?

 

[Sn2139]

Nyerere mkatholic, aliyotenda na kusema yaliashiria u-Kristo wake. Nathibisha kwa kutoa nukuu chache hapo chini:

1. Serikali yangu haina dini
2. Kila mtu ana uhuru wa kuabudu dini yake na uhuru wa kutoa mawazo bila kukiuka katiba
3. Ukabila na udini ni ubaguzi kma makaburu wanavyobagua watu kwa rangi
4. alipokonya shule za wakatholic na kuzifanya za serikali
5. alikubali kuingia kwenye muungano na taifa la ki-Islam, yaani Zanzibar
6. alikuwa tayari kumpa nchi Salim A. Salim ambaye ni mu-Islam
7. alihitimisha kwa kumwachia nchi Ali Hasan Mwinyi kama rais wapili wa Jamhuri ya Muungano wa Tanzania
8. ...

Hapana shaka Mwlimu Nyerere alikuwa mdini na alikuwa akilipendelea sana kanisa lake na dini yake ya u-Katholic.

My opinion:
Kwanza, dini za Ukristo na Uislam, kimsingi ni tofauti toka wakati wa kuanzishwa kwake na mafundisho yake.
Pili, wafuasi wa dini hizo automatically, wanatofautiana.
Tatu, hakuna hata siku moja watakuja kufanana, hata baada ya kiyama hawataweza kufanana
Nne, hakuna hata siku moja itatokea dini moja kuangamiza dini nyingine

Kwahiyo, itabidi tujifunze kuvumiliana, ili tuweze kuishi kwa amani na tuweze kuendelea kutumikia imani zetu na kumwabudu Mungu wa kila dini yetu. Hukumu ya nani anamwabudu Mungu katika haki na kweli, ni ya Mwenyezi Mungu peke yake. Binadamu hasitahili kutoa hukumu yoyote kwasababu hana ule utimilifu wa ki-Ungu katika matendo na ufahamu.

Kuhusu Nyerere, nashauri tumwache huyu mzee wetu apumzike kaburini mwake na siku ya kiyama atafufuliwa na kuhojiwa makosa yake. Ataulizwa kwanini ulidhalilisha Uislam wangu Tanzania? Kwanini ulipendelea Ukatholic zaidi katika siasa zako? Kwa nini ..... Ama ataambiwa vema mtumwa mwaminifu, ulitumikia taifa lako kwa haki na uadilifu, sasa ingia katika raha ya milele ya mbinguni. Hapo hakuna cha Faizafoxy kutoa comment au Sungura kupotosha hukumu. Ikitamkwa inatekelezwa. full stop.

 

[Gamba la Nyoka]

in 1970 nyerere invited to the state house the then secretary general of the tanzania episcopal conference, fr. Robert rweyemamu and the pope's representative to tanzania mgr. Giovano cerrano. among other things nyerere told his guests that he was doing every thing in his power to strengthen catholicism in the country. he also requested them to go and inform the bishops that he had established a department of political education in tanu (the ruling and only political party at that time), and that he had appointed a christian reverend to head that department, not because of his competence as a political analyst, but because of his strong faith as a christian. His responsibility was to guide and control the political direction of the party. He also informed them that in the party's national executive committee (nec) two members were reverends. he said he believed that was the best way of ensuring that the party got good people(van bergen, 1981:333-336). It is quite obvious that by "good people" mwalimu nyerere meant christians in general and roman catholics in particular. it is not surprising therefore that sivalon (1992:49) reports that in the same year 1970 roman catholics could boast that they constituted 70% of the 75% elected christian members of parliament. Out of the 108 elected members of parliament, 23 were muslim, 5 traditionalist and 80 christian. throughout his rule nyerere was both president and chairman of the ruling party. His promise to strengthen catholicism was not an empty one. Catholics could now use parliament to promote their religious interests if they so wished.

why should he use everything in his power to strengthen catholicism in the country?. Did the constitution of the country mandate him to do so?. Im trying to imagine if kikwete had uttered those kinds of words, that " i am using everything in my power to strengthen islam in a country.....guess how loud an outcry that would follow then...!!"

 

[SAM wa KILUNGU]

Hivi ni lazima kuandika thread yoyote hata kama huna la kueleweka mbele ya watu? Profkoyabash ni mzushi, mjinga na mdini hatari ambaye anaweza kuvumiliwa na serikali ya kimagambamagamba tu kama hii tuliyonayo.
Amebuni mada ambayo kashindwa kabisa kuitetea. Ni aibu kwake, na aibu kubwa kwa waliomtuma.
Mimi mwenyewe ni muislamu lakini kwa kweli nashindwa kabisa kuuona udini wa Nyerere zaidi ya porojo za watu wasio na data zozote za ati alikuwa mdini. Ikumbukwe kwamba ni Nyerere huyo huyo tunayemnanga leo hii aliyethubutu kuzitaifisha shule zote za Kikatoliki ili wote tusome sawa, na wakati wa utawala wake wote sikusikia wala kuona dalili za mtu kubaguliwa kwa dini iwe shuleni, Hospitali au asasi yoyote. Ni viongozi wa sasa na haswa Kikwete aliyeuasisi huu unaoitwa udini ambao natabiri utalisumbua taifa hili kwa miango mingi ijayo. Historia itamuhukumu kwa uroho wake wa madaraka uliompelekea kupandikiza mbegu za udini.

ni kweli muweka thread hana data na ameshauri wasio na data wasiongee kitu,ingawa yeye ameongea,still hukupaswa kumtukana bwana huyu kiasi hicho...kwani huwezi kujibu hoja mpaka matusi yatangulie? any way nawe umedai ni mwislam na kusema kikwete ana lete udini,ana wapendelea ninyi waislam eti eenh? weka data basi za udini wa kikwete ili nawe usitukanwe kama kama ulivo mtukana bwana Profkoyabash alipo shindwa kuweka data.

 

[KAMALELA]

Nyerere as a human being and a leader did what he thought was best for his nation, whether alifanya vizuri au alifanya vibaya is secondary right now, la muhimu kwangu ni je, nyie mlio hai mnafanya nini? mlichaguliwa kuongelea mapungufu ya Nyerere? Na kwa nini Nyerere peke, kwani hatujawa na marais wengine? Kama ajenda ni kuangalia mapungufu ya marais waliotanguli jwa kwa nini msieleze mapungufu ya hao walio hai ili wawajibu badala ya kumshambulia marehemu? Kwa nini wewe mtoa mada hujasema Mwinyi na Mkapa waliongozaji? waliwekezeje kwenye udini?

Na kama Nyerere alifanya vibaya, then shows us the right way!

...Daah, nimependa jinsi ulivyoandika, sina kama kuna haja ya kuendelea kumjibu mleta mada ni CRAP! Nashindwa kuwaelewa hawa akina kikwete kuleta mambo kama haya mbona mnamwacha B.W.MKAPA na MWINYI aliyoifisilisi nchi hii? Thanxs FJM.

 

[Revolutionist]

Kama huna data tafadhali kuwa msomaji tuu ...hii ni data based thread.

Mimi nitatumia kitabu cha Mwembechai ambacho kimesheni kwa data na ambacho tangu kiandikwe hakuna hata mtu mmoja aliyejitokeza kuandika kitabu cha kipinga ushahidi uliowekwa mle.

kwenye chapter 1 kinasema hivi:

In an interview with the Christian Century of March 1, 1972, Mwalimu Nyerere was quoted as saying that his efforts to build African socialism in Tanzania represented his determination to translate in practical terms the teachings contained in The Gospel of Jesus Christ.......What is wrong with that? I do not think there is anything wrong with implementing the political and economic teachings of Jesus Christ at a national level, so long as those teachings are consonant with the aspirations of the nation. In this particular case, like in the case of adapting the prayer of St. Francis above, the problem lies in the principle employed not in the details. It is wrong to use the Christian Gospels to guide the political and economic course of an avowedly secular state, even if in many instances the aspirations of the two may coincide. I am not saying it is inherently wrong to use religious books to guide the nation, I am only saying that at present it is constitutionally wrong to do so.

-Njozi, Hamza M.Mwembechai killings and the political future of Tanzania

Nashkuru sana "profkobayashi" nimekipata hicho kitabu (Mwembechai Killings) katika "HTML" kwenye hii link Mfumo Kristo: Mwembechai Killings

 

[Nyamburi]

Sasa kama angepandikiza udini miaka hamsini iliyopita hilo zao la udini liko wapi mbona hatulioni, wacha fikra za udini weye.

Majibu mafupi sana lakini yaliyojitosheleza mkuu!wapi zao la udini?waislam wenzangu msiwe watu wa kulalamika na kutaka kubebwa always,piganieni maisha yenu,piganieni elimu maana ndio msingi kwa watoto wetu,tukiendelea kua watu wa kulalamika tunaonewa wakati wenzetu wanazidi kuwekeza kwenye elimu basi tutazidi kuambukiza vizazi na vizazi ujinga huu

 

[Nyamburi]

Mods ondoa hii kitu please

 

[kakakuona40]

Mods ondoa hii kitu please

Hojaless guys, unakimbilia kuomba mada iondolewe!

 

[zomba]

Siwashangai waislam wenye msimamo mkali kwa saba hawaamini binadam ni mwislam,asiyekuwa mwislam ni kama mbwa vile i.e khaffirr.SO let say what their asses direct them

Nani aliokuambia kuwa mbwa ni kafir? labda mbwa wako huyo.