Who brought development in Rwanda?

murutongore said:

Pole sana kwa kupoteza one of you like minded. Najua sasa hivi umeshaanza kutafuta conspiracy theories of how Kagame killed Mtikila. Ngoja nisubiri hapa tu.

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Tayari nimeshatoa maoni kwenye thread husika. You must have missed it. https://www.jamiiforums.com/interna...ikila%92s-death-he-has-been-assassinated.html

mchambawima1 said:

lol! hata wewe umechapia jMali, eti akiniona lazima anichulie hatua? OK hayo pembeni! nakuona kwa mbaaaali jinsi unavyo jipanga utimue, na hilo ndio tatizo lako unaposhindwa ki hoja... wengi hapa huwa unatupiga ban baada ya kukupelekesha lakini hauchelewi kujirudisha na kututafuta mwenyewe pale unapo pata bahati ya kuokoteza vijireport vya kizushi kama alivyo kuja navyo ndugu yako mugizibanabi!
kukimbia ukweli ndio mojawapo ya mambo yanayokufanya usirudi kwenu jMali! haya hebu niambie hao wakenya kwani wanasemaje? hata kama wanaponda si kwa sababu yenu, BBC na media zingine ambapo mnaenda kununua airtime ya kueneza chuki zenu? ipo siku wote watawagundua... nashangaa sana kuona watu wakirubuniwa na mijitu iliyokimbia nchi kwa kuuwa/wizi?
mimi sipo Mbezi jMali ndio maana hata kiswahili nachapia kukiandika... nina miaka mingi natumia kinyarwanda zaidi ya kiswahili, nisamehe kwa hilo! kama unavyojuwa huku kwenu lugha tunazotumia kuandika officially, kiswahili hakimo... labda siku za mbeleni kwani kiswahili nacho ni lugha muhimu sana kwenye hii region yetu.
haya kimbia salama ukitaka usirudi tena kwani hakuna aliye kuomba uje hapa jamiiforum kueneza chuki zako.

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Hiyo yangu ni typo sio kuchapia. We hiyo ya kwako hata kuongea unaongea hivyo hivyo. Pili, huwa napumzika from time to time kuongea na nyinyi hivyo huwa nakuwa mstaarabu na kuwataarifu. Tatu, nimekupa link ya kwenda kusoma mwenyewe maoni ya wakenya. Sasa cha ajabu huendi ila unaniuliza mimi, sasa huo ni uvivu wa kuclick au? Anyway najua umeenda na hujapenda ulichokiona, na ni uchizi kudai dunia nzima ni interahamwe na FDLR, kwa hiyo unayeyusha tu hapa JF kwa jmali.
Nne, nadhani tukubaliane kutokukubaliana. Wewe uko convinced kuwa mimi ni mnyarwanda, i can't seem to change your mind on that. Na wewe pia itabidi ukubali tu my theory kuwa wewe ni raia wa Tanzania mwenye asili ya Rwanda. Siwezi kuendelea na mabishano kwenye uraia wakati neither of us can prove anything.
Tano, sababu pekee ya wewe kufungua hii ID ni obsession yako na mimi. Anybody can prove this by going through your archive back from when you used to call me jumali remember? :wink:. Tena nakumbuka sometimes ulikuwa unatuhumu kuwa i am also JokaKuu, ulishabadili mawazo? Sasa nimefikiria nikaona niwasaidie kwani nikiacha kuzungumza na nyie, mtafukuzwa kazi au mtanyang'anywa vischolarship vyenu. Na usishangae from now on nikawa nawakubalia tu hoja zenu kwa sababu naamini dawa imeshawaingia.

jMali said:

Hiyo yangu ni typo sio kuchapia. We hiyo ya kwako hata kuongea unaongea hivyo hivyo. Pili, huwa napumzika from time to time kuongea na nyinyi hivyo huwa nakuwa mstaarabu na kuwataarifu. Pili, nimekupa link ya kwenda kusoma mwenyewe maoni ya wakenya. Sasa cha ajabu huendi ila unaniuliza mimi, sasa huo ni uvivu au?
Tatu, nadhani tukubaliane kutokukubaliana. Wewe uko convinced kuwa mimi ni mnyarwanda, i can't seem to change your mind on that. Na wewe pia itabidi ukubali tu my theory kuwa wewe ni raia wa Tanzania mwenye asili ya Rwanda. Siwezi kuendelea na mabishano kwenye uraia wakati neither of us can prove anything.
Sababu pekee ya wewe kufungua hii ID ni obsession yako na mimi. Anybody can prove this by going through your archive back from when you used to call me jumali remember? :wink: Sasa nimefikiria nikaona nikusaidie kwani nikiacha kuzungumza na nyie, mtafukuzwa kazi au mtanyang'anywa vischolarship vyenu.

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lol! wastaarabu hawaenezi chuki jMali! hiyo #tag imeshachoka ndio maana sihangaiki kwenda kuitafuta, hiyo nilishaileta hapa na tukaijadili , inakuwaje leo ndio unaikimbuka? au sumu zimekuishia?
umenimaliza kwa kunikumbusha enzi za "jumali" a.k.a Jeanmarie! sasa siku zote hizo nimekuwa nikikuletea maendeleo ya kwenu lakini bado tu haujaona umuhimu wakuja kusaidizana na ndugu zako? nnanza kushikwa na wasiwasi, labda kuna maovu uliyoyafanya...

mchambawima1 said:

lol! wastaarabu hawaenezi chuki jMali! hiyo #tag imeshachoka ndio maana sihangaiki kwenda kuitafuta, hiyo nilishaileta hapa na tukaijadili , inakuwaje leo ndio unaikimbuka? au sumu zimekuishia?
umenimaliza kwa kunikumbusha enzi za "jumali" a.k.a Jeanmarie! sasa siku zote hizo nimekuwa nikikuletea maendeleo ya kwenu lakini bado tu haujaona umuhimu wakuja kusaidizana na ndugu zako? nnanza kushikwa na wasiwasi, labda kuna maovu uliyoyafanya...

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Kumbe tag unaijua sasa wale wakenya ni wenzangu au? Halafu zile swaga za kuniita jumali aka jokakuu ziliishia wapi?

jMali said:

Kumbe tag unaijua sasa wale wakenya ni wenzangu au? Halafu zile swaga za kuniita jumali aka jokakuu ziliishia wapi?

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hapana, ni waathirika tu! ukweli uko wazi kwa kila mwenye macho kujitazamia, mi nafikiri zile articles zenu ndio zinapumbaza wengi...

mchambawima1 said:

hapana, ni waathirika tu! ukweli uko wazi kwa kila mwenye macho kujitazamia, mi nafikiri zile articles zenu ndio zinapumbaza wengi...

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Zenu na nani wakati mimi mwenyewe nasoma na kuzileta hizo hizo? Kuna hata article moja uliyoona ambayo chanzo ni mimi kama mimi?

jMali said:

Zenu na nani wakati mimi mwenyewe nasoma na kuzileta hizo hizo? Kuna hata article moja uliyoona ambayo chanzo ni mimi kama mimi?

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hapana! wewe unachofanya ni kutazama kama zinaendana na maadili yako ndio uzilete hapa

But why is this thread through jf. Rwandese are our brothers and sisters, msitugombanishe. I am a Tanzanian loving Rwanda as our neighbour and a country.

Congo said:

But why is this thread through jf. Rwandese are our brothers and sisters, msitugombanishe. I am a Tanzanian loving Rwanda as our neighbour and a country.

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Thread iko international forum. Thank you.

Bonge la post na hawawezi kutoa majibu hawa wakimbizi wanaoishi Tanzania kwa hisani yetu zaidi watatukana na kuruka ruka kama digi digi

Congo said:

But why is this thread through jf. Rwandese are our brothers and sisters, msitugombanishe. I am a Tanzanian loving Rwanda as our neighbour and a country.

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haujielewi wewe

mkuu Congo hawa jamaa achana nao hauta waweza! tuachie sisi tunaowajuwa ni watu gani na wanataka kitu gani, ukianza kuifagilia Rwanda tu juwa umekwisha, kama huamini muulize mkenya MK254

Rwanda 1994 Nursery students (0), by 2008 (145,000)
Rwanda 1994 Primary (900,000), by 2008 (2,200,000)
Rwanda 1994 Secondary (50,100) by 2008 (288,000) 475% increase as pop grew by 25%
Rwanda 1994 University (3,000) by 2008 (45,000)

By 2014 University has reached (90,000) enrollment while Primary and Secondary(6yrs) has become free and compulsory for every Rwanda Children. This is part of what Kagame did to Rwandans, he empower them as a result they drive their economy. the numbers are very small but if you analyze them closely considering the back ground it is a huge step.

All in all if someone questions what Kagame did to Rwandans he or she must be insane, he/she is letting his hatred towards the Man blind him. And am sure nothing can be done to such person he is beyond normal discussion. every institution in the world appreciate what has been done by the Man, the facts are there for every one to see the safest country where one can move around even at night in the World (Top 5) and many many accolades courtesy of the Man.
I can go on and on, but Empowerment of your people is the Best Infrastructure.

Umslopagas said:

Rwanda 1994 Nursery students (0), by 2008 (145,000)
Rwanda 1994 Primary (900,000), by 2008 (2,200,000)
Rwanda 1994 Secondary (50,100) by 2008 (288,000) 475% increase as pop grew by 25%
Rwanda 1994 University (3,000) by 2008 (45,000)

By 2014 University has reached (90,000) enrollment while Primary and Secondary(6yrs) has become free and compulsory for every Rwanda Children. This is part of what Kagame did to Rwandans, he empower them as a result they drive their economy. the numbers are very small but if you analyze them closely considering the back ground it is a huge step.

All in all if someone questions what Kagame did to Rwandans he or she must be insane, he/she is letting his hatred towards the Man blind him. And am sure nothing can be done to such person he is beyond normal discussion. every institution in the world appreciate what has been done by the Man, the facts are there for every one to see the safest country where one can move around even at night in the World (Top 5) and many many accolades courtesy of the Man.
I can go on and on, but Empowerment of your people is the Best Infrastructure.

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There is no doubt that there has been tremendous progress in Rwanda from 1994, however, i have a problem crediting Kagame for any progress given the role he played in destabilizing/breaking down Rwanda. When he took over Rwanda in 1994, he and his group was largely responsible for the backwardness state it was. For four years since 1990 he had been ruining Rwanda. For him to now take credit for building it again is just wrong. It's like ISIS, having reduced Syria to rubble, starts to take credit for building schools, children enrollment numbers, life expectacy and all that "development" using year 2014 as benchmark!

Taking this for instance:

"According to investigations done by Human Rights Watch and the International Commission on Human Rights Abuse in Rwanda, mentioned above, the RPF was responsible for a number of serious human rights violations in the early years of the war in Rwanda. Between 1990 and 1993, RPF soldiers killed and abducted civilians and pillaged property in northeastern Rwanda. They attacked a hospital and displaced persons' camps. They forced the population of the border area to flee either to Uganda or to displaced persons camps further in the interior of the country. While professing a policy of openness and commitment to human rights, the RPF hindered the investigation of the International Commission and made it impossible for its members to speak freely and privately with potential witnesses in areas under RPF control. The commission gathered most of its information from victims of RPF abuses who had sought refuge at camps in the zone controlled by the government.33" source: Human Rights watch report

Poor school enrollment in 1994 was due to the fact that Kagame and his RPA had displaced entire villages. How could children go to school then? Maybe life expectacy was low because he was killing Rwandans? How could Habyarimana's government do "development" while managing internally displaced camps caused by Kagame? in 1993, over 1.5 million Rwandans had been displaced from their homes and became refugees in their own country, due to Kagame's attacks on Rwanda (which targeted civilians by the way) How then can you use figures from 1994 to measure "achievements"? A fair assessment/comparison of his administration's success should use the years when Rwanda was peaceful. For example instead of using a very large span of 14 years (1994 to 2008) like you, i've used a sample of years within Kagame's timeline. i.e Kagame vs Kagame.

Under Kagame:
In 2012 primary school enrollment was 2,394,674, in 2013 it was 2,402,164, an increase of: 7,490 pupils.

Under Habyarimana:
In 1975 it was 386,719, in 1976 it was 401,521, an increase of: 14,802 pupils.

Source: Rwanda - Primary education

Of course there some omitted variables like population growth etc, but my point is, what Kagame has achieved is largely seen as miraculous based on a false starting benchmark. You see there was progress way before Kagame and RPA started wrecking havoc to the extent of almost doubling some figures like i've shown. Like this post has said, all these universities of which Kagame talks of increasing enrollment in, were actually built by Habyarimana! Having said that, i would agree that the man is really working hard trying to rebuild Rwanda...which he destroyed, at least i congratulate him on that. cc: Niwemugizi

mchambawima1 said:

you real need prayers dear Niwemugizibanabi! so since the independence in 1962 until 1994(before you fled the country to DRC) you think it was not your government duty to build those basic infrastructure? you will find them everywhere in the world, even Somali which is at war for almost 3 decades to date, I can guarantee you, they have all those you mentioned... "bread today, freedom tomorrow?" what about "bread tomorrow and freedom tomorrow?" remember this is what was happening to Tutsis back then! a million of them never seen that "tomorrow" Mr Niwemugizibanabi... help me please, you mean freedom of the people to kill others? no thanks!
the problem is; most of you don't dare to Rwanda and see the real developments, listening to jMali's propaganda will keep you in the hiding while here in Rwanda we forgive even people like Rwarakabije if they properly ask for forgiveness... talking of achievements? here we go #250Achieved...

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Kwa mtu ambae ni msomi ama mpenda Rwanda nilitegemea uje na fact siyo blabla zako hapa.Nilitegemea utetezi wako uwe hivi
.From 1994 when RPF captured the country we have managed to build 10 major inter-provincial roads
.From 1994 when RPF took power we have managed to build three major stadiums
. From 1994 up to now we have added five major hospitals in Gitarama, Cyangugu etc etc
.From 1994 we have not managed to build new airport though we have added 10 runways at the current Kanombe airports in Rwanda
.From 1994 to date we have 7 new military barracks save the need of RDF
Atleast ungekujaa na facts za namna hiyo ningekusikiliza la sivo naona unanipigia makelele tu hapa

Dj-kobo said:

Bonge la post na hawawezi kutoa majibu hawa wakimbizi wanaoishi Tanzania kwa hisani yetu zaidi watatukana na kuruka ruka kama digi digi

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Hawa jamaa kazi yao ni propaganda tu ila ukija kwenye ukweli hamna kitu ni watu wanaoishi kwa matumaini tu kama wengine sema sasa sisi tunajichaanganya sana tunapoaminishwa na vyombo vyao vya propaganda kwamba eti Kigali imekuwa kama Geneva, hahahaha Geneva my foot

mchambawima1 said:

aksante Mkuu! hizo demokrasia za kizushi zikiambatanishwa na chuki, zilipelekea watu wetu million 1 kuuwawa eti kwa sababu "majority rules" yaani miafrica inafikiria eti democracy ni kujiamlia lolote atakalo, jMali sasa sijui sheria zinatungwa kwa nini kama kila kitu ni ruksa? really democracy comes with responsibilities and accountability Cc: jMali, MOTOCHINI, JustDoItNow, bona

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ambia kuwa TZ kuna demokrasia za kizushi, ni mwanasiasa gani wa Tanzania amepotezwa ama amefungwa maisha simply because anataka kugombea uraais,pole sana
Nani aliku

Niwemugizi said:

ambia kuwa TZ kuna demokrasia za kizushi, ni mwanasiasa gani wa Tanzania amepotezwa ama amefungwa maisha simply because anataka kugombea uraais,pole sana
Nani aliku

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lol! mugizibanabi noneho uranyihe pe! naomba Mungu haya mambo uwe unayaandika kutokaa na ujinga... na tena na wewe uombe sana Mungu akusaidie uutokemo! kumbe huko ukimbizini wanawambia eti huku Rwanda ukiwa mpinzani lazima ufe? kwa kifupi huku hakuna upinzani? wote wapo makaburini? duh! hii kali, ila wacha turudi kwenye kipimo chako cha demokrasia... shamba la bibi kwako linamaanisha demokrasia eh? kweli dunia inatofautiana! kule china viongozi legelege na wala rushwa kama hao unaowafagilia huwa wananyongwa, je kuna chochote mnachowazidi? hivi wewe kama unaipenda demokrasia na kukufanya uifagilie saaaaana mbona haiwasaidii ku impeach hao viongozi wenu(ukimbizini) wanao fanyia uhanithi nchi zilizo wapokea?wee ukitaka rudi kwenu tu! huku tuko civilised, hatuna hukumu za vifo ila kila kosa utakalo fanya lina hukumu yake labda tu upate upenyo wa kukwepa mkono wa sheria kama Nyamwasa

Duh kumbe Kagame hajafanya kitu Rwnda sana sana kabadilisha majina ya vitu alivyokuta vimeshajengwa.