Porojo unazo wewAcha porojo,
Tatizo ni kuwa huelewi geo-politics za EAC, wanaoitaka sana hii reli na bandari mpya si Tanzania bali ni Uganda, ...wanataka njia iliyo-SALAMA .
.. kunapokuwa na uchaguzi Kenya huwa wanafanya vurugu hata kung'oa reli na kuzuia usafirishaji wa mizigo kwa Uganda ...
Hii thread ina mjadala mtamu sana, nakuomba tu Gezaulole; tumia lugha nzuri, ni kweli una hoja lakini maneno mengine unayotumia kujibu na kujenga hoja hayapendezi. Yanaweza kumtoa mtu nje ya hoja na akajikuta anajibu 'lugha' unayotumia badala ya hoja husika.
Kuwa muungwana.
mi ni muungwana ila hawa watu wana syndrome ya kubisha vitu ili mradi ku-discredit anything viable but not theirs (soma hapa https://www.jamiiforums.com/interna...ous-cum-hate-propaganda-against-uganda-2.html)! Kuna thread humu nilianzisha kuhusu swala hili hili na believe me or not hiyo thread ilikuwa article published in the Nationmedia na ukiangalia kulikuwa na misrepresentation of facts mpaka nikashindwa kuelewa kama hao reporters wa nationmedia hawajui geography au kuna agenda behind i.e. bad publicity on the project!Hii thread ina mjadala mtamu sana, nakuomba tu Gezaulole; tumia lugha nzuri, ni kweli una hoja lakini maneno mengine unayotumia kujibu na kujenga hoja hayapendezi. Yanaweza kumtoa mtu nje ya hoja na akajikuta anajibu 'lugha' unayotumia badala ya hoja husika.
Kuwa muungwana.
Hii thread ina mjadala mtamu sana, nakuomba tu Gezaulole; tumia lugha nzuri, ni kweli una hoja lakini maneno mengine unayotumia kujibu na kujenga hoja hayapendezi. Yanaweza kumtoa mtu nje ya hoja na akajikuta anajibu 'lugha' unayotumia badala ya hoja husika.
Kuwa muungwana.
Hodi! Hii ni mara yangu ya kwanza kushiriki mjadala wo wote ndani ya JF (kwa jina langu halisi)!
LET US LOOK AT THE CURRENT SITUATION:Thanks!
- The existing Cental Line is badly utilisied, in need of massive upgrading AND there is already an MoU to extend it to Rwanda and Burundi (via the current Dry Port of Isaka?)
- What used to be the extension link from Ruvu Station junction to Tanga Port, Moshi and Arusha (as well as Moshi - Mombasa via Taveta) was discontinued generations ago! I last used that bit when a student in the 1970's!!
- The matter at hand is a FEASIBILITY STUDY, and not actual construction - even though it would cost about US $ 450 Million! I wonder where the funds for this study are to come from......
- Already conservationists the world over are against plans by the Government of Tanzania to construct a commercial highway linking Arusha and Mara Regions, as it would cut accross a 54KM section in the SERENGETI NATIONAL PARK, specifically in the Great Annual Migration Route between Serengeti National Park (Tanzania) and Maasai Mara Game Reserve (Kenya)
- An organisation called ANAW (African Network for Animal Welfare) has petitioned the East African Court of Justice to STOP the Government of Tanzania to go ahead with the Commercial Highway connecting Arusha and Mara Regions from Mto wa Mbu - Loliondo - SERENGETI NATIONAL PARK - Mugumu - Musoma. Instead, the Government should revisit and reconsider alternative options that have been strongly recommended by both local and international communities. The matter is in court, though Tanzania Government has claimed the court has no jurisdiction on the issue, the Presiding Judge (a Tanzania) has declared that contrary to GoT's opinion - it HAS jurisdiction and proceedings will continue! In case the railway project becomes a reality - this would be another legal hurdle against both Tanzania and Uganda Governments!
- The railway link in discussion is mainly for freight/cargo purposes - and NOT local communities' passenger needs. How are the people in the vicinities going to benefit from it?
- Would it not be wiser, in the spirit of East African Community cooperation - for this matter to be discussed at EAC level instead of between just two member states?
- Would it not make more sense - to use the meagre funds that are available; to upgrade, renovate and strengthen both the road and railway infrastructure that is already in existence? The idea of extending the Central Line to both Rwanda and Burundi is highly laudable, feasible and realistic - with MASSIVE improvements in the Dar port itself!
don't bring STSH issues here! who told u the other railways won't be renovated? do u think ur conservationists will bring food on ur table? soma hii report hapa http://vijana.fm/2011/12/27/east-africas-infrastructure-deficit/ uone the reality on the ground and don't be fooled by the so called conservationists in the West tell them to stand for the same environment protection in their countries first! we need infrastructure there for sustainable development even if it means building a tunnel across the Serengeti!Hodi! Hii ni mara yangu ya kwanza kushiriki mjadala wo wote ndani ya JF (kwa jina langu halisi)!
LET US LOOK AT THE CURRENT SITUATION:
Thanks!
- The existing Cental Line is badly utilisied, in need of massive upgrading AND there is already an MoU to extend it to Rwanda and Burundi (via the current Dry Port of Isaka?)
- What used to be the extension link from Ruvu Station junction to Tanga Port, Moshi and Arusha (as well as Moshi - Mombasa via Taveta) was discontinued generations ago! I last used that bit when a student in the 1970's!!
- The matter at hand is a FEASIBILITY STUDY, and not actual construction - even though it would cost about US $ 450 Million! I wonder where the funds for this study are to come from......
- Already conservationists the world over are against plans by the Government of Tanzania to construct a commercial highway linking Arusha and Mara Regions, as it would cut accross a 54KM section in the SERENGETI NATIONAL PARK, specifically in the Great Annual Migration Route between Serengeti National Park (Tanzania) and Maasai Mara Game Reserve (Kenya)
- An organisation called ANAW (African Network for Animal Welfare) has petitioned the East African Court of Justice to STOP the Government of Tanzania to go ahead with the Commercial Highway connecting Arusha and Mara Regions from Mto wa Mbu - Loliondo - SERENGETI NATIONAL PARK - Mugumu - Musoma. Instead, the Government should revisit and reconsider alternative options that have been strongly recommended by both local and international communities. The matter is in court, though Tanzania Government has claimed the court has no jurisdiction on the issue, the Presiding Judge (a Tanzania) has declared that contrary to GoT's opinion - it HAS jurisdiction and proceedings will continue! In case the railway project becomes a reality - this would be another legal hurdle against both Tanzania and Uganda Governments!
- The railway link in discussion is mainly for freight/cargo purposes - and NOT local communities' passenger needs. How are the people in the vicinities going to benefit from it?
- Would it not be wiser, in the spirit of East African Community cooperation - for this matter to be discussed at EAC level instead of between just two member states?
- Would it not make more sense - to use the meagre funds that are available; to upgrade, renovate and strengthen both the road and railway infrastructure that is already in existence? The idea of extending the Central Line to both Rwanda and Burundi is highly laudable, feasible and realistic - with MASSIVE improvements in the Dar port itself!
Porojo unazo wew
e unayeamini kuwa TZ hatutaingia gharama kwenye huo
mradi, gharama ziko wazi sana.
Waamini Kenya watapigana kila uchaguzi na Tz waendelee kuchekeana kila uchaguzi?
bantugbro, lemmie be submissive uncharacteristic of me. If your plan sees the day of light, trust me that new trade wars between Tz and Kenya will def be hatched to the adv of Uganda(they now have the bargainin power). am so waiting to see how this plays out, alot of hurdles in ua plan despite ugandas oil wealth (not yet mined) plus everything is still on paper. Be sure to expect some Kenyan twist to this.
don't bring STSH issues here! who told u the other railways won't be renovated? do u think ur conservationists will bring food on ur table? soma hii report hapa East Africa's Infrastructure Deficit uone the reality on the ground and don't be fooled by the so called conservationists in the West tell them to stand for the same environment protection in their countries first! we need infrastructure there for sustainable development even if it means building a tunnel across the Serengeti!
Kwa kawaida kwenye miradi mingine ya miundombinu serikali ya nchi miundombinu hiyo inakojengwa ndio huwa mgaramiaji mkuu. Lakini kwa mradi huu hakuna tofauti na ule wa TAZARA ambapo serikali yetu na Zambia kwa pamoja zilipewa mkopo (au kwa maana ingine ziligharamia kwa pamoja) na serikali ya China, kipindi hicjo walioutaka sana ule mradi walikuwa ni Zambia. Nimesema Uganda wanautaka sana huu mradi kutokana na sababu fulani za muhimu, sijasema kuwa hatutaingia gharama....:A S-coffee:
Kupinga matokeao ya uchaguzi sio kibali cha kuharibu miundo mbinu inayohudumia nchi za jirani (especially land locked ones). Yaani wewe kwa akii yako unataka watanzania wanaopinga matokeo ya uchaguzi waende wakang'oe reli ya TAZARA au wabomoe madaraja ya barabara kuu kuelekea Rwanda au Malawi unafikiri hizo nchi jirani zitawaamini tena?. Hii ndio sababu kubwa ya Uganda kutaka sana hii relli na bandari ya Tanga.:hat:
Haya, pamoja na mapungufu yote ya bandari ya Dar bado Rwanda na Burundi wanataka sana ule mradi mwingine wa kuikarabati reli ya kati ili watumie bandari ya Dar na wako tayari kuchangia pesa pia....:lol:
don't bring STSH issues here! who told u the other railways won't be renovated? do u think ur conservationists will bring food on ur table? soma hii report hapa East Africa's Infrastructure Deficit uone the reality on the ground and don't be fooled by the so called conservationists in the West tell them to stand for the same environment protection in their countries first! we need infrastructure there for sustainable development even if it means building a tunnel across the Serengeti!
That's why the infrastructure and the ecosystem should co-exist along a 50 km stretch across the Serengeti, a WIN-WIN situation! I simply disagree the STSH stand simply cause they only push for a pristine Serengeti something neither of their countries have managed to demonstrate! we need an infrastructure that will do least damage to the Serengeti ecosystem at the same time competitive enough (distance-wise) with other corridors! a tunnel can solve the puzzle we have just like the way the Alps Mts are having tunnels and part of the Mt is a Heritage site!Conservation and infrastructure development are not mutually exclusive. It doesn't have to be one or the other but one should not be sacrificed for the other. And they both have economic benefits for current and future generations.
Wale ndugu zetu wa bandari ya Mombasa lazima povu litawatoka maana wanataka kila kitu.
halafu cha ajabu wakti serikali yao iko njiani kuharibu Marine ecosystem at Lamu on the proposed port wako kimya wakihangaika na mambo ya Serengeti! hawa jamaa ni wanafiki na wivu unawasumbuaWameshaanza kuchonga, eti wanatetea Mbuga ya Serengeti!
That's why the infrastructure and the ecosystem should co-exist along a 50 km stretch across the Serengeti, a WIN-WIN situation! I simply disagree the STSH stand simply cause they only push for a pristine Serengeti something neither of their countries have managed to demonstrate! we need an infrastructure that will do least damage to the Serengeti ecosystem at the same time competitive enough (distance-wise) with other corridors! a tunnel can solve the puzzle we have just like the way the Alps Mts are having tunnels and part of the Mt is a Heritage site!