Gen David Sejusa has dropped the clearest hint yet that he may not return to Uganda soon.
In an interview with Peter Clottey of Voice of America television, Sejusa, better known as Tinyefuza, also went to great length to explain why he wrote the highly-critical letter that set him on a collision course with the NRM government.
Sejusa fled to the UK in April, after writing a letter demanding an investigation into an alleged assassination plot against government officials opposed to First son Brig Muhoozi Kainerugabas perceived presidential ambitions. In the revealing interview, a transcript of which is published below, also says the army coup plot that dominated public debate earlier this year was real.
He says former Chief of Defence Forces Gen Nyakairima Aronda was coerced into publicly warning the country that the army could intervene if civilians messed up. Sejusa also speaks about what was supposed to happen in case of a coup, and about alleged threats to his life.
The army has severally rejected Sejusas claims and has accused him of harbouring subversive intentions.
Below is the transcript of Sejusas interview, as captured by Siraje Lubwama and Sulaiman Kakaire.
Sejusa: Well, well, thank you for having me I think they [Ugandan government] are addressing the wrong issue. What I did raise in that letter was about investigating specific allegations and those allegations were clearly stated in the letter about plans being hatched to assassinate senior political leaders and military officers, and the portfolio which I held, I wrote in that capacity requiring the director general of internal security organisation to carry out those investigations and establish whether they were correct or false.
Therefore, for them to come out and deny before any investigations are carried out and trying to cover up by them imputing wrong motives on me who was performing my duties they should have made the comments after investigation but not to make sweeping statements of denial; that is being diversionary.
As to whether the young man (Brig Muhoozi Kainerugaba) is being prepared or not, that should be investigated but there are fillers, you would not promote a person from a private in 10 years to a general; that has never happened in the world. There is no war that young man has been fighting he has been doing course after course everyone year; without even practising what he has learnt in the previous course, the next month he is sent to another one.
He is a young man of 30 years [Muhoozi is 39-Editor]and you make him a service commander of Special Forces Command. There are laid-down procedures you follow in promotion, in training, in recruitment and in deployment.
For instance seniority, capability, discipline, intelligence, operational. You see that you must know some of these aspects of command and control. Command is not a matter of guesswork and who you love and who is related to you. So, there is no doubt that on the surface of it, everything points at something basically wrong on how the president has been handling the issues of his son, and by the way the onus is on him to clarify these issues.
You have been told by government to calm down and explain these things, why have you not gone back and explain your letter or raised concerns about it?
How was I supposed to go back and explain the contents of the letter because I was going back on Saturday (June 9) and the army was deployed around the airport you know from special forces, military forces, police, the whole of Entebbe airport to a space of 30km every inch was full of soldiers and tanks waiting for me everything was waiting for me, the plan was to arrest me at the tarmac and put me in a helicopter, fly me to a place called Nakasongola, 60 miles out of Kampala, then the next day they would make a mock attack that I was going to be rescued, then I am killed in the cross fire and then they would make a statement that those were my rebels who had come to rescue me.
So, there was already an elaborate plan to eliminate me. So, it is laughable for those gentlemen to come and pretend How do you expect me to give that story with that kind of reception? So, it was a non-starter.
Does that mean that based on your suspicion you hope not to go back to Uganda anytime soon?
These are not suspicions, there is circumstantial evidence there are circumstances that point to that because the way the government reacted initially, wanting to arrest me, preparing military units against me. I was not armed, I was coming from London. I was boarding British Airways and I was going to land like an ordinary person.
People who have no sinister motive would have allowed me to go home and thereafter arrest me or call me to headquarters or anywhere. By the way. dont think that this is an isolated incident because before that I had written strongly there had been a plot by Mr Museveni and his group to carry out a palace coup against themselves. And many generals came up, first of all it was the president who went and addressed different parties at his home and warned them.
So, he had already prepared public opinion about this because he knew that his son would not pass through a democratic mechanism. So, the only thing would be to use the military and then he started to prepare the public opinion. He went to Kyankwanzi and told MPs that a coup is possible; in fact in his first [day] of the year address of 2013, he did categorically say that the problem of Uganda was that we are civilians, and this is on record.
This was the first time that a leader who came to power on a revolutionary ticket of a peoples struggle; I heard such a leader say that the problem of Uganda were the civilians and I quote him of all these problems we are having, it is not the army, it is not the military process, it is the civilians and in this coming year I will deal with civilians decisively
I will quote him and it was quite stunning that a president would say that the problem of Uganda is civilians. So, they started preparing public opinion, after that his minister of Defence went to a parliamentary committee and talked about it and said yes, the military would take over.
After that they called the Chief of Defence Forces and coerced him he didnt agree with them and he was forced and then went on TV and then warned the whole country that yes the military would take over and they had already prepared a plan which I would not want to go into now. And also within that plan they were to carry out a purge of people who did not support this project of his son and by so doing use extrajudicial means to capture power but also to fight the enemies opposed to the project. So, I wrote to warn the public about the ramifications of these plans.
One thing they have been saying is that you have been erratic and that you have not been a real army man in addressing things of the army that you have not gone through the right ranks to address this.
I was not employed, my job description was not in the rank I was head of security services, I was head of intelligence services and I was under Presidents Office, not ministry of Defence; that was my job description.
But, they are saying that the allegations you are making about the plot are too wild
No, it does not matter. I was saying this is a matter that should be investigated; it does not matter whether this is wild or not.
I am not making them as categorical; I am saying these were issues which were wrong or false. I was demanding for an investigation and what was wrong with that? So, how can you come and blame someone who is performing his duties? My statement was not categorical, what is the problem with that? I dont understand the logic.
Some of your supporters are saying that the president and his people could come after you do you fear for your life at this moment?
Of course I fear for my life. I know it for a fact [but] I dont want to go into details because the things I have told you are the things which I wrote in my letter and others are a subject of an already-ongoing debate in the country.
I have not commented about things that have happened in the course of my duty but I can tell you that these are things that have not happened on me alone but even others. But, I can tell you as a fact that it is not only my life in danger but many politicians because the political system has broken down, we are in a state of anarchy and to rein in on dissent, they are using force
General, you did work under President Museveni, why did you not go and ask him whether or not this project is true?
Okay, man to man is a different matter, if I was saying that the contents were about him, then it would have been but since it was a group, it required investigation. This was an internal communication between chiefs of intelligence. The fact that it was leaked has nothing to do with me. It was my job to say the following has come
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In an interview with Peter Clottey of Voice of America television, Sejusa, better known as Tinyefuza, also went to great length to explain why he wrote the highly-critical letter that set him on a collision course with the NRM government.
Sejusa fled to the UK in April, after writing a letter demanding an investigation into an alleged assassination plot against government officials opposed to First son Brig Muhoozi Kainerugabas perceived presidential ambitions. In the revealing interview, a transcript of which is published below, also says the army coup plot that dominated public debate earlier this year was real.
He says former Chief of Defence Forces Gen Nyakairima Aronda was coerced into publicly warning the country that the army could intervene if civilians messed up. Sejusa also speaks about what was supposed to happen in case of a coup, and about alleged threats to his life.
The army has severally rejected Sejusas claims and has accused him of harbouring subversive intentions.
Below is the transcript of Sejusas interview, as captured by Siraje Lubwama and Sulaiman Kakaire.
Sejusa: Well, well, thank you for having me I think they [Ugandan government] are addressing the wrong issue. What I did raise in that letter was about investigating specific allegations and those allegations were clearly stated in the letter about plans being hatched to assassinate senior political leaders and military officers, and the portfolio which I held, I wrote in that capacity requiring the director general of internal security organisation to carry out those investigations and establish whether they were correct or false.
Therefore, for them to come out and deny before any investigations are carried out and trying to cover up by them imputing wrong motives on me who was performing my duties they should have made the comments after investigation but not to make sweeping statements of denial; that is being diversionary.
As to whether the young man (Brig Muhoozi Kainerugaba) is being prepared or not, that should be investigated but there are fillers, you would not promote a person from a private in 10 years to a general; that has never happened in the world. There is no war that young man has been fighting he has been doing course after course everyone year; without even practising what he has learnt in the previous course, the next month he is sent to another one.
He is a young man of 30 years [Muhoozi is 39-Editor]and you make him a service commander of Special Forces Command. There are laid-down procedures you follow in promotion, in training, in recruitment and in deployment.
For instance seniority, capability, discipline, intelligence, operational. You see that you must know some of these aspects of command and control. Command is not a matter of guesswork and who you love and who is related to you. So, there is no doubt that on the surface of it, everything points at something basically wrong on how the president has been handling the issues of his son, and by the way the onus is on him to clarify these issues.
You have been told by government to calm down and explain these things, why have you not gone back and explain your letter or raised concerns about it?
How was I supposed to go back and explain the contents of the letter because I was going back on Saturday (June 9) and the army was deployed around the airport you know from special forces, military forces, police, the whole of Entebbe airport to a space of 30km every inch was full of soldiers and tanks waiting for me everything was waiting for me, the plan was to arrest me at the tarmac and put me in a helicopter, fly me to a place called Nakasongola, 60 miles out of Kampala, then the next day they would make a mock attack that I was going to be rescued, then I am killed in the cross fire and then they would make a statement that those were my rebels who had come to rescue me.
So, there was already an elaborate plan to eliminate me. So, it is laughable for those gentlemen to come and pretend How do you expect me to give that story with that kind of reception? So, it was a non-starter.
Does that mean that based on your suspicion you hope not to go back to Uganda anytime soon?
These are not suspicions, there is circumstantial evidence there are circumstances that point to that because the way the government reacted initially, wanting to arrest me, preparing military units against me. I was not armed, I was coming from London. I was boarding British Airways and I was going to land like an ordinary person.
People who have no sinister motive would have allowed me to go home and thereafter arrest me or call me to headquarters or anywhere. By the way. dont think that this is an isolated incident because before that I had written strongly there had been a plot by Mr Museveni and his group to carry out a palace coup against themselves. And many generals came up, first of all it was the president who went and addressed different parties at his home and warned them.
So, he had already prepared public opinion about this because he knew that his son would not pass through a democratic mechanism. So, the only thing would be to use the military and then he started to prepare the public opinion. He went to Kyankwanzi and told MPs that a coup is possible; in fact in his first [day] of the year address of 2013, he did categorically say that the problem of Uganda was that we are civilians, and this is on record.
This was the first time that a leader who came to power on a revolutionary ticket of a peoples struggle; I heard such a leader say that the problem of Uganda were the civilians and I quote him of all these problems we are having, it is not the army, it is not the military process, it is the civilians and in this coming year I will deal with civilians decisively
I will quote him and it was quite stunning that a president would say that the problem of Uganda is civilians. So, they started preparing public opinion, after that his minister of Defence went to a parliamentary committee and talked about it and said yes, the military would take over.
After that they called the Chief of Defence Forces and coerced him he didnt agree with them and he was forced and then went on TV and then warned the whole country that yes the military would take over and they had already prepared a plan which I would not want to go into now. And also within that plan they were to carry out a purge of people who did not support this project of his son and by so doing use extrajudicial means to capture power but also to fight the enemies opposed to the project. So, I wrote to warn the public about the ramifications of these plans.
One thing they have been saying is that you have been erratic and that you have not been a real army man in addressing things of the army that you have not gone through the right ranks to address this.
I was not employed, my job description was not in the rank I was head of security services, I was head of intelligence services and I was under Presidents Office, not ministry of Defence; that was my job description.
But, they are saying that the allegations you are making about the plot are too wild
No, it does not matter. I was saying this is a matter that should be investigated; it does not matter whether this is wild or not.
I am not making them as categorical; I am saying these were issues which were wrong or false. I was demanding for an investigation and what was wrong with that? So, how can you come and blame someone who is performing his duties? My statement was not categorical, what is the problem with that? I dont understand the logic.
Some of your supporters are saying that the president and his people could come after you do you fear for your life at this moment?
Of course I fear for my life. I know it for a fact [but] I dont want to go into details because the things I have told you are the things which I wrote in my letter and others are a subject of an already-ongoing debate in the country.
I have not commented about things that have happened in the course of my duty but I can tell you that these are things that have not happened on me alone but even others. But, I can tell you as a fact that it is not only my life in danger but many politicians because the political system has broken down, we are in a state of anarchy and to rein in on dissent, they are using force
General, you did work under President Museveni, why did you not go and ask him whether or not this project is true?
Okay, man to man is a different matter, if I was saying that the contents were about him, then it would have been but since it was a group, it required investigation. This was an internal communication between chiefs of intelligence. The fact that it was leaked has nothing to do with me. It was my job to say the following has come
[email]slubwama@observer.ug[/EMAIL]This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
skakaire@observer.ugThis e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
