'Science-ify' the Kiswahili language first

Swahili all the way hadi kitaeleweka. Am so glad they made this brilliant decision.

Ah,I don't like the sound of it... English language is now the "Genesis 11:1" type!

It' is like wasting our time looking for fools' gold.

One can only create words when you have a need for them. We have never made any scientific strides, how could we figure out complex terminology in Swahili. It will just worsen an already complicated and degraded education system.

We are far from being a "scientific" society in that we will forever be borrowing western and by default english terminology in the field of sciences.

It would be easier to teach English in tandem with Swahili from primary education onwards in my opinion.
Our parents went through such a system, what was wrong with it?

What we have, I noticed, is a serious case of inferiority complex disguised as nationalism or patriotism.
Swahili is inadequate as a scientific language, period!

By the way, could anyone give in one word, the english word for "Tunguri"?

msemakweli said:

The government recently unveiled its new education policy which, among other things, declares Kiswahili to be the official language of instruction in schools right from Primary level to University.

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Wrong
The policy states Kiswahili will be used for Basic education. First 10 years of schooling.

Brilliant as that is, I would urge the govt of Tanzania to first 'science-ify' the language. We need to change people's mindsets and view as regards the Kiswahili language.

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Wrong
Primary education has plenty of books in Swahili in science, you type as if you were in a rock since 1950.

Make it a language of intellectual refinement both in the science and arts fields. Currently, I am not sure if all technical science terms (in Natural science (physics, chemistry and biology), Formal science (mathematics, computing, statistics), Applied Science (engineering, medicine, architecture, military etc) and Social Science (economics, law etc)) have their Kiswahili equivalents.

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Wrong, we do not teach military education in basic education, first 10 years of schooling, if you need swahili military/police words, go to Segerea,or JKT and see how swahili-fied the military/police is.

Kiswahili has only accomplished that as regards the arts.

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Wrong,
I can't begin to explain how misinformed you are.

English as we know it today was changed fundamentally thanks to the scientific revolution. We need to have a scientific revolution in Kiswahili.

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Again WRONG.

There is no such thing as scientific revolution, science has evolved since the Babylonian days. there is zero connection between science and English. Please stop making false premises, especially those you can not back up with any reasonable fact.

Kimweri

First off, I think the only terribly misinformed person here is you. Have you even been paying attention to what commentators have been saying?
I will quote for you what Prof. Kitila Mkumbo said, and this will hopefully nullify all your other arguments:

"......The policy is evasive in the language of instruction. On the one hand, the policy seems to heed to the consistent call that has been made for years by some educationists and Kiswahili zealots to use Kiswahili as a medium of teaching and learning throughout the education system.

Accordingly, policy statement 3.2.19 proclaims: "Lugha ya Taifa ya Kiswahili itatumika kufundishia na kujifunzia katika ngazi zote za elimu na mafunzo….".
(The national Kiswahili language shall be used in teaching and learning at all levels of education and training….", uk.38)....."

And about your 'no connection between English and Science', I shall give you this, which i have quoted from somewhere else;
"The main distinction between Early Modern and Modern English lies in its vocabulary - pronunciation, grammar and spelling remained largely unchanged.

Modern English accumulated many more words as a result of two main historical factors: the Scientific Revolution, which necessitated new words for things and ideas that had not previously existed; and the rise of the British Empire, during which time English adopted many foreign words and made them its own.
Most of the innovations of the Industrial Revolution of the late 18th and early 19th Century were of British origin, including the harnessing of steam to drive heavy machinery, the development of new materials, techniques and equipment in a range of manufacturing industries, and the emergence of new means of transportation (e.g. steamships, railways).

At least half of the influential scientific and technological output between 1750 and 1900 was written in English. Another English speaking country, the USA, continued the English language dominance of new technology and innovation with inventions like electricity, the telegraph, the telephone, the phonograph, the sewing machine, the computer, etc.

The industrial and scientific advances of the Industrial Revolution created a need for neologisms to describe the new creations and discoveries. To a large extent, this relied on the classical languages, Latin and Greek, in which scholars and scientists of the period were usually well versed......."

Serengetiboy

From what i have so far gathered from various commentators, English will continue being taught in schools, but only as a single subject.
We are not a scientific society, very true. But that is not saying that something cannot be done about it. When Queen Elizabeth 1 of England ascended to the English throne, England quickly became the cornerstone of intellectual refinement throughout Europe.

We just need good policies, which i must say we have no shortage of, and a good charismatic and visionary leadership to implement them.

msemakweli

Whats good for the goose? Aesthetics out for sure.

Some subscribe to addressing problems through tools such as first principles, thi:
"The normal way we conduct our lives is we reason by analogy. With analogy we do it because it's like something else that was done, or it is like what other people are doing. With first principles you boil things down to the most fundamental truths … and then reason up from there."

In that context, what could be said to be fundamental truths with regards to "education in Tanzania"?
Consider this scenario: At a university, Lecturers are instructed to disregard how students write and give answers to exams. Instead, focus ought to aim at the purported CONTENT! Lecturers ought to "go figure"! Marking exams becomes shamefully entertaining. The combination of language hiccups in terms of very poor English language skills and low higher education potential is characteristic of many a university and college students in Tanzania. Yet, this fact alone has quite a chequered history, the sequence of destruction leading to the present juncture. Confusion reigns around the use of Kiswahili as medium of instructions and lugha ya Taifa. Why reinvent the wheel?

msemakweli said:

Kimweri

First off, I think the only terribly misinformed person here is you. Have you even been paying attention to what commentators have been saying?
I will quote for you what Prof. Kitila Mkumbo said, and this will hopefully nullify all your other arguments:

"......The policy is evasive in the language of instruction. On the one hand, the policy seems to heed to the consistent call that has been made for years by some educationists and Kiswahili zealots to use Kiswahili as a medium of teaching and learning throughout the education system.

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For many this policy is this years news,for some of us, we have know this ever since they started the working groups to set up the policy.
I am well capapble of understanding more than what Kitila could gather from the report, hence i will go on and provide my opinion based on what i read, not what Kitila thinks it means.

Kiswahili will be used for basic education, English will be used for high school onwards. Period.

And about your 'no connection between English and Science', I shall give you this, which i have quoted from somewhere else;
"The main distinction between Early Modern and Modern English lies in its vocabulary - pronunciation, grammar and spelling remained largely unchanged.

Modern English accumulated many more words as a result of two main historical factors: the Scientific Revolution, which necessitated new words for things and ideas that had not previously existed; and the rise of the British Empire, during which time English adopted many foreign words and made them its own.

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Why do you keep enforcing a wrong idea? over and over? if you meant Industrial revolution then this has nothing to do with science. Some of the world best scientific concepts were set in stone way before the industrial revolution. Do not confuse the two please.

Most of the innovations of the Industrial Revolution of the late 18th and early 19th Century were of British origin, including the harnessing of steam to drive heavy machinery, the development of new materials, techniques and equipment in a range of manufacturing industries, and the emergence of new means of transportation (e.g. steamships, railways).

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You really are very limited on your scope of history. What the brits did better was concur the world through military and influence, that does not mean they concurred everything else in terms of knowledge.

At least half of the influential scientific and technological output between 1750 and 1900 was written in English. Another English speaking country, the USA, continued the English language dominance of new technology and innovation with inventions like electricity, the telegraph, the telephone, the phonograph, the sewing machine, the computer, etc.

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Written in english and studied in english are two diffrent things. Most reports/papers/findings done by brilliant russian/german/japanese/chinese scientists will probably be translated to English for consumption, but this does not mean English was the core driver behind these discoveries. I know that because i work with all the nationalities i just mentioned and trust me when i say, English is not why they are so brilliant. Most times it just slows them down.

It's ironic you have ended up mentioning over half inventions done by people whose English was their second language.

Kimweri

You seem firm in believing your own fallacies. First, you refute the historical fact that the scientific revolution ever happened. And you further claim that there is no link between the industrial and the scientific revolution whereas in actual fact, the scientific revolution laid the foundations of modern science and set the stage for the industrial revolution.

And as for the policy....Mr. Kitila quoted a given line in the policy statement word for word. I am therefore inclined to take his word over yours. Sorry!
And wouldn't it be absurd to subject learners to such a sudden change in language-of-instruction well into their education?

msemakweli said:

You seem firm in believing your own fallacies. First, you refute the historical fact that the scientific revolution ever happened. And you further claim that there is no link between the industrial and the scientific revolution whereas in actual fact, the scientific revolution laid the foundations of modern science and set the stage for the industrial revolution.

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There has never been a revolution in science, until you realize your mistake, you will keep repeating it.Modern science advancement which you refer to, happened way after the British industrial revolution more precisely at the end of it. Actually 150 years ago, Maxwell, would go on to propose the basis of electromagnetism,which because of the difficulty in which he arrived to his conclusion, took scientists and mathematicians a few decades to fully simplify them in what each and every scientist like me can remember so vividly even before we pronounce our names.
I would stay away from scientific referrals and history if i were you.

And as for the policy....Mr. Kitila quoted a given line in the policy statement word for word. I am therefore inclined to take his word over yours. Sorry!
And wouldn't it be absurd to subject learners to such a sudden change in language-of-instruction well into their education?

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Think about it,

Teaching a student a English as a subject for 10 consecutive years, while focusing on making sure he understands the core principles of the subjects in the language he understands,then ,after that transition them into learning advanced knowledge of the principles and concepts they already have good grasp of.

OR

Teaching these students in English from the get go, not even sure they are getting the core principles, but proceed anyway because they have to learn how to speak English.in the end you end up with students who can barely speak English because,they never had time to grasp core language skills,and whose knowledge of subjects is shaky at best their focus was on cramming.


Which of the two scenarios looks absurd?

The new policy is out there, it public for public consumption. Why don't you get and read it for yourself and see if what you are arguing is true or false? No body should read for you.

According to the policy, Kiswahili is now the medium of Instruction in all levels of education system in Tanzania. Nevertheless, the full implementation of the policy may take at least 20 years. At the sametime (for time being) both Kiswahili nad English shall continue to be used in our education system.

There has never been a revolution in science, until you realize your mistake, you will keep repeating it.Modern science advancement which you refer to, happened way after the British industrial revolution more precisely at the end of it. Actually 150 years ago, Maxwell, would go on to propose the basis of electromagnetism,which because of the difficulty in which he arrived to his conclusion, took scientists and mathematicians a few decades to fully simplify them in what each and every scientist like me can remember so vividly even before we pronounce our names.
I would stay away from scientific referrals and history if i were you.

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Kimweri
To answer this i shall shamelessly refer you to wikipedia: Scientific revolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The scientific revolution did happen, unless you are just trying to sound smart and deep.

Teaching a student a English as a subject for 10 consecutive years, while focusing on making sure he understands the core principles of the subjects in the language he understands,then ,after that transition them into learning advanced knowledge of the principles and concepts they already have good grasp of.

OR

Teaching these students in English from the get go, not even sure they are getting the core principles, but proceed anyway because they have to learn how to speak English.in the end you end up with students who can barely speak English because,they never had time to grasp core language skills,and whose knowledge of subjects is shaky at best their focus was on cramming.

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I would prefer teaching a student English as a subject for 10 consecutive years, whilst focusing on making sure he/she understands the core principles of the subjects in Kiswahili. Throughout. PERIOD.
I am schooling with some of these people that were 'made to grasp concepts in a language they understand best' and i can tell you it is excruciating listening to some of them present their oral or written reports. I often catch myself recoiling in my seat.
I mean if you are going to use Kiswahili, do so. It is a very graceful language. It beats trying to use English and ending up sounding like a class A fool!
Which is why I am all for using either English or Kiswahili throughout, while learning the other as a side language. No transition.

DoubleOSeven said:

Some subscribe to addressing problems through tools such as first principles, thi:
"The normal way we conduct our lives is we reason by analogy. With analogy we do it because it's like something else that was done, or it is like what other people are doing. With first principles you boil things down to the most fundamental truths … and then reason up from there."

In that context, what could be said to be fundamental truths with regards to "education in Tanzania"?
Consider this scenario: At a university, Lecturers are instructed to disregard how students write and give answers to exams. Instead, focus ought to aim at the purported CONTENT! Lecturers ought to "go figure"! Marking exams becomes shamefully entertaining. The combination of language hiccups in terms of very poor English language skills and low higher education potential is characteristic of many a university and college students in Tanzania. Yet, this fact alone has quite a chequered history, the sequence of destruction leading to the present juncture. Confusion reigns around the use of Kiswahili as medium of instructions and lugha ya Taifa. Why reinvent the wheel?

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True.
But there are two ways to deal with that 'language hiccups' problem. We just need to figure which side we are on. Either we fully adopt the Kiswahili language as the medium of instruction whilst keeping the other language as a lingua franca, or vice versa. I honestly do not see the need to transition from one language to the other. It is an unnecessary inconvenience that we are subjecting our scholars to.

QUOTE=msemakweli;12000101]Kimweri
To answer this i shall shamelessly refer you to wikipedia: Scientific revolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The scientific revolution did happen, unless you are just trying to sound smart and deep.

[/QUOTE]

What you call a revolution i call a process, as evidenced by over 400 years gap in your ever unreliable Wikipedia link. But lets just agree to disagree,and i will rest my case.

I would prefer teaching a student English as a subject for 10 consecutive years, whilst focusing on making sure he/she understands the core principles of the subjects in Kiswahili. Throughout. PERIOD.

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ok

I am schooling with some of these people that were 'made to grasp concepts in a language they understand best' and i can tell you it is excruciating listening to some of them present their oral or written reports. I often catch myself recoiling in my seat.
I mean if you are going to use Kiswahili, do so. It is a very graceful language. It beats trying to use English and ending up sounding like a class A fool!
Which is why I am all for using either English or Kiswahili throughout, while learning the other as a side language. No transition.

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I understand your point.
which is what am also coming from, give or take 99% of Tanzanians will end up interacting with fellow Tanzanians, mostly in Kiswahili, why make 99% suffer for the 1% who will talk to foreigners or who will go abroad?if someone wants to be seen fluent in English they might as well make more efforst learning the language in itself.

One day you will school or work with empty heads whose only achievement is speaking better lingua whilst with very thin knowledge.

I would rather take my time to listen to someone who knows what they are doing, but wwith troubles explaining it. that listening to someone who bullshit his way through stuffs.

Do we have capacity to have all primary schools in Tanzania, teach kids in English only?

msemakweli said:

True.
But there are two ways to deal with that 'language hiccups' problem. We just need to figure which side we are on. Either we fully adopt the Kiswahili language as the medium of instruction whilst keeping the other language as a lingua franca, or vice versa. I honestly do not see the need to transition from one language to the other. It is an unnecessary inconvenience that we are subjecting our scholars to.

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Willy nilly! As if we have no priorities. Could anyone translate for me this one -USWAHILI?

msemakweli

Yes there is equvalent swahili words and that is why our late mwalimu Nyerere introduced BAKITA,those guys are working tirelessly to expand our swahili language and one of their main goal is to work on scientific term and and put them in kiswahili, for example Nuclia reactor they call it, tanuri la nucklia simple as that so dont tell me that we are stuck on most advanced scientific terms Mzee Kambarage saw this long time ago,and that is why today we have things like bakita baraza la kiswahili la taifa led by Mr Mohammed Mwinyi to whom i know personaly and i know the work he has been doing regarding promoting kiswahili.Mr Murage Msherwampamba.

Mmmh!...it's my hope they meant "swahili as a language of instruction" not as in writing and studying univesity books in "swahili"...Sina nia mbaya but I think we should start first outside with our daily products and demands to be in "Swahili" before we really put it in practice...can't see through if I will read in swahili only to find out the softwares at the offices, or services are typically offered in English.
We should make an effort to our investors to consider swahili in everyday life product and practice they induce,it's a shame that Kenyans are well employed when it comes to a demand of swahili translations in abroad activities such as media platform than us.
Some companies like Microsoft and Google are always open when it comes to expanding a language,we have already Google swahili but not that inviting(my opinion!)...but I will still like to see,say Microsoft word swahili,Windows 10 swahili,Android swahili,swahili printer,and so on...
Tutafika tuu!

I got u bro!!