Rwanda: Australian Peacekeepers Go Public on 1995 Kibeho Massacre in Rwanda

[mchambawima1]

On 26 November 1981, the virgin Mary reportedly appeared at this church in Kibeho. It has been attracting tens of thousands of pilgrims ever since. But between April 19-22, 1994, Kibeho was scene of the devil at work - Hutu extremist militias killed nearly 15,000 civilians

Twenty years ago, in mid-April, as many as 100,000 of unarmed civilians had sought protection in the Kibeho Internally Displaced Persons Camp (IDP) in the south of Rwanda. It was the largest camp in the country.

Inside the camp, were hundreds of genocide militia and former government army hiding among the civilians. After they had killed Tutsis and there were no more in the surrounding villages, they moved to camps for Hutus villagers who were escaping the war. The slow massacre of civilians began on April 19th when the militias invaded the camp.

A small team of 32 Australian Defence Force personnel were the only western troops to witness the massacre. They arrived on April 21 and witnessed the massacre.

It is one the worst carnages Australian troops have been exposed to since the Second World War, according to accounts of the remaining survivors of the operation.

Australian author Paul Jordan was there. He was one of the highly trained elite SAS forces deployed in Rwanda at the time.

"We arrived as part of the second contingent in February 1995," he narrates in interview with Australian media. "We took up residence at the hospital and started providing care for those who were injured."

Kibeho was the last and the biggest Internally Displaced People's camp remaining in Rwanda after the 1994 genocide. In the midst of this carnage one would wonder whether there were any attempts to intercede.

The author Jordan says that there were numerous initiatives from Australian forces and other parties to stop the killings.

"It was coming from the UN and it was coming from our command element," Jordan said. "And we had one signaller who spent his entire time on that radio maintaining communications and reporting exactly what was going on.

"But it was also our officers within our small group who were pleading with the Rwandan Patriotic Army officers, a major in particular, that this had do stop."

But their calls fell on deaf ears.

"It was to the point where there was a set of horrible circumstances and some of the events leading up to the events where... displaced persons who knew that things were going bad and would make a run for it.

He says there were endless efforts to stop the killings but often it was too late.

"There are countless incidents that took place where innocent people were murdered and executed in front of us and you know not only myself but everybody who was involved in those couple of days stood up to Rwandan soldiers and said no.

"If we were given the opportunity we did that and often we were successful but sometimes you just weren't there on time."

Faced with mounting casualties and a situation of total helplessness there was increased pressure on the Australian Medical team to leave Kibeho altogether.

Another of the Australian soldiers on the mission was the late SAS Trooper Jon Church who the Australian military last week awarded the Medal for Gallantry.

According to accounts of his family who received the medal on his behalf, he narrated to them that Hutu militiamen, fearing they would be exposed if the Kibeho camp was cleared, began slaughtering their own people to discourage the survivors from leaving.

For reasons best known to itself, the Australian Army kept the event private. But what I can tell you is that the award was made in the presence of Owen Church and the statue is of his son, SAS Trooper Jon Church. Jon Church's sister, Sarah, had also flown in from New Zealand.

Among the recipients of the awards was Dr Carol Vaughn-Evans, the head of a medical team that saved hundreds of lives. That we know so little of these events is partly due to the horrors that make description almost impossible.

The boy Jon Church was carrying was one of many he saved under gunfire during one of the most appalling episodes ever endured by Australian soldiers.

The author Jordan says that there were numerous initiatives from Australian forces and other parties to stop the killings.

He said: "It was coming from the UN and it was coming from our command element. And we had one signaller who spent his entire time on that radio maintaining communications and reporting exactly what was going on."

The mass killings by the interahamwe militias stopped only after the Rwanda patriotic rebels had overrun the camp on April 22. More than 14,000 were dead.

Human Right organisations and many scholars believe the tally is much higher. Their figures vary between 10,000 and 15,000 people killed in a matter of four days.

Jordon has his own account.

"I recognise that by being there and bearing witness to what had taken place they would have to kill all of us ... to clear that evidence from their slate.

"Or, they had to stop what they were doing. And they didn't kill 12,000 people. I believe the count was somewhere between 4,000 and 10,000. And I would say closer to 10,000."

Source: allafrica

 

[jMali]

1. The original source ya habari feki hapo juu ni News of Rwanda, inapatikana hapa: Australian peacekeepers go public on 1995 Kibeho massacre in Rwanda News Of Rwanda – Rwanda News

2. Hii habari imeandikwa ili kupotosha the real story ya waustralia ambayo nilipost hapa:
https://www.jamiiforums.com/interna...emembered-20-years-after-kibeho-massacre.html. na ambayo ilitoka hapa: Australian bravery remembered 20 years after Kibeho massacre | SBS Radio

Bila aibu news of rwanda imeamua kudanganya umma kwa kubadili kauli za waliohojiwa kwa kukata kata maneno yao kutoka kwenye habari original na kuongeza za kwao na kubadili stori kichwa chini miguu juu, kuwasingizia interahamwe uhalifu ambao RPF ndio walifanya.

habari original inachukua maelezo ya Mu-australia paul jordan:
"Author Paul Jordan is one of the highly trained elite SAS forces deployed in Rwanda at the time. His section was tasked to support and protect a small Australian Medical Team sent to the Kibeho IDP, Internally displaced People's camp in the south of Rwanda. A camp that was about to be closed."


habari hii feki nayo inamquote paul jordan huyo huyo:
Australian author Paul Jordan was there. He was one of the highly trained elite SAS forces deployed in Rwanda at the time.


Kwa hiyo mpaka hapa tunakubaliana kuwa habari zote mbili zinatumia chanzo kimoja cha habari. Sasa tuendelee, kwenye habari original paul jordan anaweka wazi nani aliua:

"The first sign was watching the RPA clear the villages and hills around it. People being forced out and as they ran, they were made to run. They would shoot them. And they did it in a grotesque way. They'd shoot them in the leg and then they'd laugh at them and then watch them trying to get up and eventually put a bullet in their head or somewhere fatal".


"The Rwandans had machine guns, they had mortars, and all set up to mow these people down; which they did. And while this was going on, there were also people running within these poor people with machetes killing them from within as well. So these displaced persons were being hit from both sides; from the army and from militias from within the camp".


Lakini habari feki toka News of Rwanda, haijaandika yote hayo ya juu yaliyosemwa na paul jordan badala yake inasingizia habari za uongo toka kwa familia ya shujaa john church (pichani amebeba mtoto kwenye habari original) kuwa eti:

According to accounts of his family who received the medal on his behalf, he narrated to them that Hutu militiamen, fearing they would be exposed if the Kibeho camp was cleared, began slaughtering their own people to discourage the survivors from leaving.

Huu ni uongo ambao hata shetani mwenyewe hawezi kudanganya. John church ndio yule askari kwenye habari original ambae amebeba mtoto wa kihutu aliyemuokoa asiuawe na askari wa RPF, hapa:

Mpiga picha aliyepiga picha hiyo hapo juu kama anavyosomeka anaitwa George Gittoes. Yeye anasema yafuatayo kuhusu nini hasa kilimtokea jonh church.

"Gittoes' best-known image from Rwanda is of SAS medic Trooper Jon Church carrying an injured young victim who needed treatment.

Gittoes was with Church (who was killed in the 1996 Black Hawk training accident in Townsville) when he went out on a mission to count the dead. Instead, the pair ended up collecting babies whose parents had been killed in the massacre.

They were threatened by the RPF, who Gittoes says "pointed a gun at Jon's head and said ‘if you pick up one more baby, we will kill you'."
shujaa jon hakukata tamaa hata baada ya kutishiwa maisha yake:

A while later when they went to leave the camp, Gittoes noticed Church was quiet, sweating and very anxious.

"Once we got out he showed me he'd put a baby in his medical bag, he was worried it would suffocate," he says. "I'll never forget the look on his face when he opened that bag and a beautiful, chubby, Rwandan baby started crying."


source: Australian troops remember Kibeho massacre in Rwanda | NT News.

Ukweli ni kuwa church alipewa medali hiyo kutokana na ushujaa huo unaoelezewa na mpiga picha George Gittoes na si vinginevyo.

habari zingine zote kuhusu kibeho massacre ambazo zimetoka kwa vikosi vya australia zinaeleza wazi ukatili wa askari wa RPF. News of Rwanda iliyowahi kuripoti kuwa mtikila ni mbunge wa Tanzania, mama salma kikwete anamiliki biashara mbalimbali mikocheni, Twagiramungu anakaa ikulu na uzushi mwingine,,,haijaweka chanzo chochote cha kututhibitisha kuwa eti marehemu church aliwaambia familia yake kuwa interahamwe ndio waliua watu kibeho.
By the way vyanzo vya habari hizi ni Waustralia wenyewe, sio vyombo vya FDLR wala wapinzani wowote wa kagame. Hawa ni watu wasiokuwa na any bias kwenye migogoro ya Rwanda.
SHAME ON KAGAME NA WOTE WANAOMSAPOTI!

cc: Kibona JokaKuu NasDaz nyumba kubwa Geza Ulole JustDoItNow Ngongo beth Umslopagas Aleyn MOTOCHINI

 

[MOTOCHINI]

Hapa ndipo huwa nasema jMali unatisha ndugu yaani kwamwenye uelewa hapo anatambua ukweli upowapi, huwezi pata ukweli kupitia chombo cha serikali ambaye inatuhumiwa ktk mauaji unadhani itashindwa kupindisha! mchambawima1 njoo hapa utueleze kwanini mnatupa vyanzo vilivyo chakachuliwa? kujahuku na wenzie

 

[mchambawima1]

Hapa ndipo huwa nasema jMali unatisha ndugu yaani kwamwenye uelewa hapo anatambua ukweli upowapi, huwezi pata ukweli kupitia chombo cha serikali ambaye inatuhumiwa ktk mauaji unadhani itashindwa kupindisha! mchambawima1 njoo hapa utueleze kwanini mnatupa vyanzo vilivyo chakachuliwa? kujahuku na wenzie

we MOTOCHINI utanyweshwa sumu kutukutu bila ya kujuwa!!! the key word here is... "the mass killings by the Interahamwe militias stoped when the RPF rebels overrun the camp on April 22" I know it will be difficult for you to understand but jMali knows the truth, kuna watutsi waliokuwa wamejipakazia uhutu wakabahatika kukimbia na kina jMali bila ya kugunduliwa lakini walipofika mule kambini jamaa waliokuwa hawajatosheka damu walikuwa wanakunusa tu basi wanajuwa hadi kabila lako la ukweli na kuanza upya chinjachinja yao, hata wale walioona wamezungukwa na wazee wakazi(RPF) na kutaka kujisalimisha hata wao walipitiwa... wazee walifanya uamuzi wa busara sana na kufagia kambi kwani mtu aliyeshuhudia mambo yaliyofanywa na ndugu zao leo hii asingeweza kuishi na watu wa dunia ya leo kwa amani

 

[kamili]

1. Ninaposikia neno interahamwe najihisi kama nipo mikomoni mwa ISIS, Boko Barak, Poly Pot, Hitler au Josseph Kony. But Intarhamwe ni zaidi ya hao.

2. Inatia kichefuchefu inauzi na inakera kusikia mtu anataka kutetea shetani mla damu (Interahamwe)

3. Intarahamwe walionja nyama za watu wakipata nafasi watarudia tena ingefaa wazikwe kwenye kaburi la pamoja ( Rwanda will never be safe with existance of Intarahamwe.

1. The original source ya habari feki hapo juu ni News of Rwanda, inapatikana hapa: Australian peacekeepers go public on 1995 Kibeho massacre in Rwanda News Of Rwanda – Rwanda News

2. Hii habari imeandikwa ili kupotosha the real story ya waustralia ambayo nilipost hapa:
https://www.jamiiforums.com/interna...emembered-20-years-after-kibeho-massacre.html. na ambayo ilitoka hapa: Australian bravery remembered 20 years after Kibeho massacre | SBS Radio

Bila aibu news of rwanda imeamua kudanganya umma kwa kubadili kauli za waliohojiwa kwa kukata kata maneno yao kutoka kwenye habari original na kuongeza za kwao na kubadili stori kichwa chini miguu juu, kuwasingizia interahamwe uhalifu ambao RPF ndio walifanya.

habari original inachukua maelezo ya Mu-australia paul jordan:
"Author Paul Jordan is one of the highly trained elite SAS forces deployed in Rwanda at the time. His section was tasked to support and protect a small Australian Medical Team sent to the Kibeho IDP, Internally displaced People’s camp in the south of Rwanda. A camp that was about to be closed."


habari hii feki nayo inamquote paul jordan huyo huyo:
Australian author Paul Jordan was there. He was one of the highly trained elite SAS forces deployed in Rwanda at the time.


Kwa hiyo mpaka hapa tunakubaliana kuwa habari zote mbili zinatumia chanzo kimoja cha habari. Sasa tuendelee, kwenye habari original paul jordan anaweka wazi nani aliua:

"The first sign was watching the RPA clear the villages and hills around it. People being forced out and as they ran, they were made to run. They would shoot them. And they did it in a grotesque way. They’d shoot them in the leg and then they’d laugh at them and then watch them trying to get up and eventually put a bullet in their head or somewhere fatal".


"The Rwandans had machine guns, they had mortars, and all set up to mow these people down; which they did. And while this was going on, there were also people running within these poor people with machetes killing them from within as well. So these displaced persons were being hit from both sides; from the army and from militias from within the camp".


Lakini habari feki toka News of Rwanda, haijaandika yote hayo ya juu yaliyosemwa na paul jordan badala yake inasingizia habari za uongo toka kwa familia ya shujaa john church (pichani amebeba mtoto kwenye habari original) kuwa eti:

According to accounts of his family who received the medal on his behalf, he narrated to them that Hutu militiamen, fearing they would be exposed if the Kibeho camp was cleared, began slaughtering their own people to discourage the survivors from leaving.

Huu ni uongo ambao hata shetani mwenyewe hawezi kudanganya. John church ndio yule askari kwenye habari original ambae amebeba mtoto wa kihutu aliyemuokoa asiuawe na askari wa RPF, hapa:

Mpiga picha aliyepiga picha hiyo hapo juu kama anavyosomeka anaitwa George Gittoes. Yeye anasema yafuatayo kuhusu nini hasa kilimtokea jonh church.

"Gittoes’ best-known image from Rwanda is of SAS medic Trooper Jon Church carrying an injured young victim who needed treatment.

Gittoes was with Church (who was killed in the 1996 Black Hawk training accident in Townsville) when he went out on a mission to count the dead. Instead, the pair ended up collecting babies whose parents had been killed in the massacre.

They were threatened by the RPF, who Gittoes says “pointed a gun at Jon’s head and said ‘if you pick up one more baby, we will kill you’."
shujaa jon hakukata tamaa hata baada ya kutishiwa maisha yake:

A while later when they went to leave the camp, Gittoes noticed Church was quiet, sweating and very anxious.

“Once we got out he showed me he’d put a baby in his medical bag, he was worried it would suffocate,” he says. “I’ll never forget the look on his face when he opened that bag and a beautiful, chubby, Rwandan baby started crying.”


source: Australian troops remember Kibeho massacre in Rwanda | NT News.

Ukweli ni kuwa church alipewa medali hiyo kutokana na ushujaa huo unaoelezewa na mpiga picha George Gittoes na si vinginevyo.

habari zingine zote kuhusu kibeho massacre ambazo zimetoka kwa vikosi vya australia zinaeleza wazi ukatili wa askari wa RPF. News of Rwanda iliyowahi kuripoti kuwa mtikila ni mbunge wa Tanzania, mama salma kikwete anamiliki biashara mbalimbali mikocheni, Twagiramungu anakaa ikulu na uzushi mwingine,,,haijaweka chanzo chochote cha kututhibitisha kuwa eti marehemu church aliwaambia familia yake kuwa interahamwe ndio waliua watu kibeho.
By the way vyanzo vya habari hizi ni Waustralia wenyewe, sio vyombo vya FDLR wala wapinzani wowote wa kagame. Hawa ni watu wasiokuwa na any bias kwenye migogoro ya Rwanda.
SHAME ON KAGAME NA WOTE WANAOMSAPOTI!

cc: Kibona JokaKuu NasDaz nyumba kubwa Geza Ulole JustDoItNow Ngongo beth Umslopagas Aleyn MOTOCHINI

 

[jMali]

1. Ninaposikia neno interahamwe najihisi kama nipo mikomoni mwa ISIS, Boko Barak, Poly Pot, Hitler au Josseph Kony. But Intarhamwe ni zaidi ya hao.

2. Inatia kichefuchefu inauzi na inakera kusikia mtu anataka kutetea shetani mla damu (Interahamwe)

3. Intarahamwe walionja nyama za watu wakipata nafasi watarudia tena ingefaa wazikwe kwenye kaburi la pamoja ( Rwanda will never be safe with existance of Intarahamwe.

ndugu najibu hoja zako moja baada ya nyingine:

1. Interahamwe ni wabaya kama walivyo hao ISIS, boko haram na wengineo. Lakini sidhani kama ni busara kulinganisha uovu wa kikundi kimoja na kingine. Hawa wote ni waovu. Lakini swali langu lingine ni hili, hawa wote walioperate kwenye mazingira tofauti na malengo tofauti. ISIS wanalenga wakristo, interahamwe walilenga watutsi, hitler alilenga wayahudi...Sasa wewe unasema interahamwe wanakuogopesha, je wewe ni mtutsi? kama wewe ni mtutsi basi ondoa shaka, according to kagame, interahamwe walikuwa defeated within 100 days, na wote wameshafungwa rwanda kwa makosa yao. Leo hii hakuna interahamwe.

2. Sidhani kama kuna mtu yoyote anayetetea maovu ya interahamwe, we umemuona wapi mtu wa namna hiyo? Isije ikawa unachukulia kuwa anayepinga uongo wa serikali ya RPF juu ya interahamwe maana yake ni kukubaliana na interahamwe. Hebu fafanua vizuri ni nani anayetetea maovu ya interahamwe?

3. Interahamwe wameshahukumiwa kwa ubaya wao, na leo hawako tena. Lakini RPF iliyofanya hayo mauaji yasiyotofautiana hata chembe na yale ya interahamwe, tena zaidi ya interahamwe kwa sababu interahamwe walitumia mapanga wakati RPF walitumia automatic machine guns...BADO WAPO, HAWAJAHUKUMIWA, na bado wanaendeleza u "reverse-interahamwe" wao mpaka leo! I respectfully disagree with you because since interahamwe don't exist anymore, the only threat to Rwandan safety today is the RPF government led by Paul kagame.

They were threatened by the RPF, who Gittoes says "pointed a gun at Jon's head and said ‘if you pick up one more baby, we will kill you'."

 

[Talkandtalk]

ndugu najibu hoja zako moja baada ya nyingine:

1. Interahamwe ni wabaya kama walivyo hao ISIS, boko haram na wengineo. Lakini sidhani kama ni busara kulinganisha uovu wa kikundi kimoja na kingine. Hawa wote ni waovu. Lakini swali langu lingine ni hili, hawa wote walioperate kwenye mazingira tofauti na malengo tofauti. ISIS wanalenga wakristo, interahamwe walilenga watutsi, hitler alilenga wayahudi...Sasa wewe unasema interahamwe wanakuogopesha, je wewe ni mtutsi? kama wewe ni mtutsi basi ondoa shaka, according to kagame, interahamwe walikuwa defeated within 100 days, na wote wameshafungwa rwanda kwa makosa yao. Leo hii hakuna interahamwe.

2. Sidhani kama kuna mtu yoyote anayetetea maovu ya interahamwe, we umemuona wapi mtu wa namna hiyo? Isije ikawa unachukulia kuwa anayepinga uongo wa serikali ya RPF juu ya interahamwe maana yake ni kukubaliana na interahamwe. Hebu fafanua vizuri ni nani anayetetea maovu ya interahamwe?

3. Interahamwe wameshahukumiwa kwa ubaya wao, na leo hawako tena. Lakini RPF iliyofanya hayo mauaji yasiyotofautiana hata chembe na yale ya interahamwe, tena zaidi ya interahamwe kwa sababu interahamwe walitumia mapanga wakati RPF walitumia automatic machine guns...BADO WAPO, HAWAJAHUKUMIWA, na bado wanaendeleza u "reverse-interahamwe" wao mpaka leo! I respectfully disagree with you because since interahamwe don't exist anymore, the only threat to Rwandan safety today is the RPF government led by Paul kagame.

Interahamwe kilikuwa nikikundi kinachoeneza anti Tutsi propaganda, these people still exist so huwezi kusema Interahamwe no longer exists, the good thing ni kwamba hizo campaign haziwezi kufanyikia Rwanda, either mnazifanyia online, au kwenye mapoli ya DRC:
Issue ya Kibeho isha jadiliwa sana, hata kwenye hizo habari zako you are showing that kulikuwa na militias ndani ya kambi, hawa ndio walikuwa waki warushia risasi askali wa RPF:
Unadhani RPF ingefanya nini ingekaa kimya as if Kibeho was not part of the liberated Rwanda?
There may be some innocent casualities lakini makosa niya Interahamwe waliojichanganya na raia,yet wakiendeleza vitendo vyao vyaku ua na kushambulia majeshi ya RPF:

 

[jMali]

Interahamwe kilikuwa nikikundi kinachoeneza anti Tutsi propaganda, these people still exist so huwezi kusema Interahamwe no longer exists, the good thing ni kwamba hizo campaign haziwezi kufanyikia Rwanda, either mnazifanyia online, au kwenye mapoli ya DRC:
Issue ya Kibeho isha jadiliwa sana, hata kwenye hizo habari zako you are showing that kulikuwa na militias ndani ya kambi, hawa ndio walikuwa waki warushia risasi askali wa RPF:
Unadhani RPF ingefanya nini ingekaa kimya as if Kibeho was not part of the liberated Rwanda?
There may be some innocent casualities lakini makosa niya Interahamwe waliojichanganya na raia,yet wakiendeleza vitendo vyao vyaku ua na kushambulia majeshi ya RPF:

I respectfully disagree, ingawa wewe huna respect juu yangu. Interahamwe kilikuwa kikundi cha vijana wa chama tawala wakati huo, kama ambavyo kulikuwa na vikundi vingine vya vyama vingine. Interahamwe were not the only people waliokuwa na anti-Tutsi ideology, wahutu wengi walikuwa na anti-tutsi ideology, watutsi wengi walikuwa na anti-hutu ideology. Hizi ideologies zilikuwapo kabla hata ya mapinduzi enzi za mkoloni. Wahutu na watutsi walikuwa maadui toka wakati huo. The only thing ni kwamba kwa sababu wahutu walikuwa in power in 1994, interahamwe ndio wakawa face of anti-tutsi ideology. Thats why majority ya wahutu ambao wako jela leo for genocide acts against tutsis hawakuwa members wa interahamwe at all. Waliua kwa sababu ya chuki ambazo zilikuwapo toka enzi na enzi.
Interahamwe as interahamwe are gone, but anti-tutsi sentiments? hizo bado zipo, anti-hutu sentiments? hizo bado zipo. Until there is a true national dialogue what ever peace there is in Rwanda is superficial. That's why mpaka leo kagame anaendelea kufunga watu akidai wana "ideology" this and that. lakini huyo huyo anasema hakuna wahutu au watutsi ila kuna banyarwanda. Sasa which is which?
Kuhusu kibeho massacres, nadhani sina cha kuongeza, waliokuwapo ni waustralia na wao ndio wenye true account of what happened. Maswali ya msingi ni haya:

1. Kibeho ilikuwa ni camp ya wakimbizi, kwa nini RPF hawakuheshimu hilo. In fact RPF haikuheshimu makambi mengi tu ya wakimbizi.

2. Interahamwe walijulikana vipi tofauti na Rwandans who simply didn't want RPF/kagame to take over their country? Kumbuka RPF walikuwa ni waasi wasioungwa mkono na majority ya rwandans. Ndio maana walianzisha guerilla warfare iliyodumu miaka minne. Kama wangekuwa wanaungwa mkono ingefanyika revolution. Mhutu aliyekuwa anti-RPF haimaanishi kuwa necessarily alikuwa interahamwe. argument yako assumes kuwa ilikuwa ni kosa kwa mnyarwanda kupambana na RPF. This is not true, RPF didn't "liberate" anyone. Tutsis had rebel forces like RPF toka enzi za mapinduzi, refer to the INYENZI attacks by aloys ngurumbe na waasi wengine.

3. Kama kweli lengo lilikuwa kuondoa interahamwe, what was the score, ni militias wangapi waliuawa vs innoncent collateral victims? Jibu ambalo halipingiki ni kuwa hakuna hesabu yoyote ile ambayo RPF wanayo, they simply killed as many hutus as they could get away with. Do you honestly say hawa watoto ambao RPF haikutaka mr church awaokoe nao ni "interahamwe"?

"They were threatened by the RPF, who Gittoes says "pointed a gun at Jon's head and said ‘if you pick up one more baby, we will kill you'."




source: Australian troops remember Kibeho massacre in Rwanda | NT News

Mwisho: tatizo la Rwanda leo ni kuwa RPF/kagame na supporters wake mnataka wahutu kama huyo mtoto aliyebebwa pichani ambao leo ni watu wazima, wasahau kinguvu, jinsi walivyo-survive mauaji ya RPF, lakini hapo hapo waadhimishe mauaji ya watutsi by interahamwe, ambao also killed the hutus as well...., tena kana kwamba haitoshi wa-apologize to the survivors of genocide, wawalipe fidia (i think you read the thread on this) na vitu kama hivyo.......when will their dead be remembered?

 

[Hute]

I respectfully disagree, ingawa wewe huna respect juu yangu. Interahamwe kilikuwa kikundi cha vijana wa chama tawala wakati huo, kama ambavyo kulikuwa na vikundi vingine vya vyama vingine. Interahamwe were not the only people waliokuwa na anti-Tutsi ideology, wahutu wengi walikuwa na anti-tutsi ideology, watutsi wengi walikuwa na anti-hutu ideology. Hizi ideologies zilikuwapo kabla hata ya mapinduzi enzi za mkoloni. Wahutu na watutsi walikuwa maadui toka wakati huo. The only thing ni kwamba kwa sababu wahutu walikuwa in power in 1994, interahamwe ndio wakawa face of anti-tutsi ideology. Thats why majority ya wahutu ambao wako jela leo for genocide acts against tutsis hawakuwa members wa interahamwe at all. Waliua kwa sababu ya chuki ambazo zilikuwapo toka enzi na enzi.
Interahamwe as interahamwe are gone, but anti-tutsi sentiments? hizo bado zipo, anti-hutu sentiments? hizo bado zipo. Until there is a true national dialogue what ever peace there is in Rwanda is superficial. That's why mpaka leo kagame anaendelea kufunga watu akidai wana "ideology" this and that. lakini huyo huyo anasema hakuna wahutu au watutsi ila kuna banyarwanda. Sasa which is which?
Kuhusu kibeho massacres, nadhani sina cha kuongeza, waliokuwapo ni waustralia na wao ndio wenye true account of what happened. Maswali ya msingi ni haya:

1. Kibeho ilikuwa ni camp ya wakimbizi, kwa nini RPF hawakuheshimu hilo. In fact RPF haikuheshimu makambi mengi tu ya wakimbizi.

2. Interahamwe walijulikana vipi tofauti na Rwandans who simply didn't want RPF/kagame to take over their country? Kumbuka RPF walikuwa ni waasi wasioungwa mkono na majority ya rwandans. Ndio maana walianzisha guerilla warfare iliyodumu miaka minne. Kama wangekuwa wanaungwa mkono ingefanyika revolution. Mhutu aliyekuwa anti-RPF haimaanishi kuwa necessarily alikuwa interahamwe. argument yako assumes kuwa ilikuwa ni kosa kwa mnyarwanda kupambana na RPF. This is not true, RPF didn't "liberate" anyone. Tutsis had rebel forces like RPF toka enzi za mapinduzi, refer to the INYENZI attacks by aloys ngurumbe na waasi wengine.

3. Kama kweli lengo lilikuwa kuondoa interahamwe, what was the score, ni militias wangapi waliuawa vs innoncent collateral victims? Jibu ambalo halipingiki ni kuwa hakuna hesabu yoyote ile ambayo RPF wanayo, they simply killed as many hutus as they could get away with. Do you honestly say hawa watoto ambao RPF haikutaka mr church awaokoe nao ni "interahamwe"?

"They were threatened by the RPF, who Gittoes says “pointed a gun at Jon’s head and said ‘if you pick up one more baby, we will kill you’."




source: Australian troops remember Kibeho massacre in Rwanda | NT News

Mwisho: tatizo la Rwanda leo ni kuwa RPF/kagame na supporters wake mnataka wahutu kama huyo mtoto aliyebebwa pichani ambao leo ni watu wazima, wasahau kinguvu, jinsi walivyo-survive mauaji ya RPF, lakini hapo hapo waadhimishe mauaji ya watutsi by interahamwe, ambao also killed the hutus as well...., tena kana kwamba haitoshi wa-apologize to the survivors of genocide, wawalipe fidia (i think you read the thread on this) na vitu kama hivyo.......when will their dead be remembered?

mzee you have a pot, true peace and unity in rwanda will come after a real truth and reconciliation, kwasababu wahutu waliua na watusi waliua pia, hakuna wa kumnyoshea mwenzie kidole, watu wanaowaita interahamwe wauaji wamesahau kuwa kuna muuaji mkubwa kuliko wanyarwanda wote yupo madarakani hadi leo na huyo ndiye aliye trigger genocide yote, huyu ndiye kagame aliyetungua ndege na kusababisha hasira wahutu wakajua hapa tusipofanya mauaji tutauawa sisi. sitaki kuhalalisha mauaji lakini ninachotaka kuwaambia ni kwamba, both tribes are victims hivyo kinachotakiwa kufanyika ni kile kilichofanyika south africa, truth and reconciliation, ila kagame akiendelea kuwawinda wahutu, kuna siku atawindwa yeye.

 

[Kiyoya]

kuna baadhi ya wachangiaji wananifanya niamini Kagame aliingia madaraka kwa nyimbo na mapambio na kwamba interahamwe ilianza miaka ya 80 na wameua watutsi tangu hapo

 

[kamili]

Nashukuru kwa kukubaliana na mimi kwa kipengele cha kwanza ulichaandika hapo chini. But kwa niliyotia alama nyekundu sitaki kujadiliana na wewe maana nywele zinanisisimka ninapooana unawatetetea Intarahamwe inderectly.
Kwa kifupi RPF waliua wakati wanaikomboa Rwanda, na walilenga hao shetani wanywa damu. Kama kuna mtu aliyeuwawa ambae hakuwa shetani basi ilikuwa si kwa makusudi. Tena nisisitize hawakuwalenga wahutu bali walilenga Intarahmwe, maana ipo toufauti kati ya wahutu na intrahamwe maana sio wahutu wote ni intarahamwe.
Intarahamwe wapo wanasubiri the right time kuanzisha mauaji tena.

ndugu najibu hoja zako moja baada ya nyingine:

1. Interahamwe ni wabaya kama walivyo hao ISIS, boko haram na wengineo. Lakini sidhani kama ni busara kulinganisha uovu wa kikundi kimoja na kingine. Hawa wote ni waovu. Lakini swali langu lingine ni hili, hawa wote walioperate kwenye mazingira tofauti na malengo tofauti. ISIS wanalenga wakristo, interahamwe walilenga watutsi, hitler alilenga wayahudi...Sasa wewe unasema interahamwe wanakuogopesha, je wewe ni mtutsi? kama wewe ni mtutsi basi ondoa shaka, according to kagame, interahamwe walikuwa defeated within 100 days, na wote wameshafungwa rwanda kwa makosa yao. Leo hii hakuna interahamwe.

2. Sidhani kama kuna mtu yoyote anayetetea maovu ya interahamwe, we umemuona wapi mtu wa namna hiyo? Isije ikawa unachukulia kuwa anayepinga uongo wa serikali ya RPF juu ya interahamwe maana yake ni kukubaliana na interahamwe. Hebu fafanua vizuri ni nani anayetetea maovu ya interahamwe?

3. Interahamwe wameshahukumiwa kwa ubaya wao, na leo hawako tena. Lakini RPF iliyofanya hayo mauaji yasiyotofautiana hata chembe na yale ya interahamwe, tena zaidi ya interahamwe kwa sababu interahamwe walitumia mapanga wakati RPF walitumia automatic machine guns...BADO WAPO, HAWAJAHUKUMIWA, na bado wanaendeleza u "reverse-interahamwe" wao mpaka leo! I respectfully disagree with you because since interahamwe don't exist anymore, the only threat to Rwandan safety today is the RPF government led by Paul kagame.

 

[jMali]

Nashukuru kwa kukubaliana na mimi kwa kipengele cha kwanza ulichaandika hapo chini. But kwa niliyotia alama nyekundu sitaki kujadiliana na wewe maana nywele zinanisisimka ninapooana unawatetetea Intarahamwe inderectly.
Kwa kifupi RPF waliua wakati wanaikomboa Rwanda, na walilenga hao shetani wanywa damu. Kama kuna mtu aliyeuwawa ambae hakuwa shetani basi ilikuwa si kwa makusudi. Tena nisisitize hawakuwalenga wahutu bali walilenga Intarahmwe, maana ipo toufauti kati ya wahutu na intrahamwe maana sio wahutu wote ni intarahamwe.
Intarahamwe wapo wanasubiri the right time kuanzisha mauaji tena.

1.Utakuwa mtu wa ajabu (kwangu mimi) kama maneno hayo uliyoweka red kwako maana yake ni kuwatetea interahamwe, especially baada ya kukubaliana na maneno ya kwanza ambapo nimeweka wazi msimamo wangu juu ya interahamwe ni upi.

2. Nadhani hufahamu historia ya RPF. RPF walianza kushambulia nchi huru ya Rwanda mwaka 1990, wakati huo wakiitwa RPA. Vikundi vya waasi wa kitutsi vilianza immediately baada ya mapinduzi ya wahutu kwenye miaka ya mwishoni mwa 50, baada ya ufalme wa kitutsi kupinduliwa. RPF hawana tofauti yoyote na vikundi vile, ni muendelezo wake tu. Mwaka 1994 mapigano yalisimama kupisha utekelezaji wa mkataba wa amani wa Arusha. Ndege ilipotunguliwa mapigano kati ya RPF na serikali ya Habyarimana yalianza upya. Sio kweli kuwa RPF walilenga interahamwe pekee, ingalikuwa hivyo, baada ya kuwashinda interahamwe mkataba wa Arusha ungetekelezwa. Lengo la RPF lilikuwa ni lile lile la toka mwaka 1990. Ndio maana baada tu ya kuingia waliwafukuza askari wa UN, wakiwatishia kuwapiga risasi!, walidai kuwa interahamwe wote wamemalizwa wakati kumbe bado walikuwapo, na matokeo yake watutsi zaidi wakafa bila sababu. RPF sio malaika kama unavyodhani.

3. Sio kweli kuwa RPF haikuua watu wasiohusika makusudi. Ushahidi wote unaonyesha kinyume chake. In fact kwa aibu baadhi ya askari wa RPF walifungwa kwa makosa ya mauaji ya watu wasio na hatia, makosa ambayo serikali ya RPF inaita "revenge killings". Kama hilo limetokea wewe unadiriki vipi kusema RPF haikuua kwa makusudi?
Tukio hili la Kibeho kwenye hii thread ni moja tu, yapo mengine mengi. Tofauti ni kuwa hili la kibeho wako waustralia ambao serikali ya RPF haiwezi kubishana nao juu ya ushahidi wa nini hasa kilitokea. Matukio mengine kwa bahati mbaya hayana mashahidi "weupe" kama unanielewa. Wote watakaohadithia kwa vile ni wahutu wataambiwa wao ni wapinzani, wafuasi wa interahamwe, wafuasi wa FDLR na mengine mengi.

4. Interahamwe kilikuwa kikundi cha vijana cha chama tawala cha MNRD, kulikuwapo pia na vikundi vingine vya vijana wa vyama vingine as well. hata bongo wapo red brigade, wako green guard, wako uvccm, wako bavicha etc. Logically, kama Chadema ikifa hakuwezi kuwa na bavicha, CCM ikifa hakuwezi kuwa na UVCCM. Hao interahamwe we umewaona wapi ilihali MNRD haipo? Interahamwe wote kama wapo ni fugitives, unayo orodha ya interahamwe wanaotafutwa? Interahamwe is gone. Nakutahadharisha tu kuwa sheria ya cybercrime imesainiwa, ulivyoandika kuwa " Intarahamwe wapo wanasubiri the right time kuanzisha mauaji tena" nadhani unatakiwa kuwa na uthibitisho....

 

[Umslopagas]

1.Utakuwa mtu wa ajabu (kwangu mimi) kama maneno hayo uliyoweka red kwako maana yake ni kuwatetea interahamwe, especially baada ya kukubaliana na maneno ya kwanza ambapo nimeweka wazi msimamo wangu juu ya interahamwe ni upi.

2. Nadhani hufahamu historia ya RPF. RPF walianza kushambulia nchi huru ya Rwanda mwaka 1990, wakati huo wakiitwa RPA. Vikundi vya waasi wa kitutsi vilianza immediately baada ya mapinduzi ya wahutu kwenye miaka ya mwishoni mwa 50, baada ya ufalme wa kitutsi kupinduliwa. RPF hawana tofauti yoyote na vikundi vile, ni muendelezo wake tu. Mwaka 1994 mapigano yalisimama kupisha utekelezaji wa mkataba wa amani wa Arusha. Ndege ilipotunguliwa mapigano kati ya RPF na serikali ya Habyarimana yalianza upya. Sio kweli kuwa RPF walilenga interahamwe pekee, ingalikuwa hivyo, baada ya kuwashinda interahamwe mkataba wa Arusha ungetekelezwa. Lengo la RPF lilikuwa ni lile lile la toka mwaka 1990. Ndio maana baada tu ya kuingia waliwafukuza askari wa UN, wakiwatishia kuwapiga risasi!, walidai kuwa interahamwe wote wamemalizwa wakati kumbe bado walikuwapo, na matokeo yake watutsi zaidi wakafa bila sababu. RPF sio malaika kama unavyodhani.

3. Sio kweli kuwa RPF haikuua watu wasiohusika makusudi. Ushahidi wote unaonyesha kinyume chake. In fact kwa aibu baadhi ya askari wa RPF walifungwa kwa makosa ya mauaji ya watu wasio na hatia, makosa ambayo serikali ya RPF inaita "revenge killings". Kama hilo limetokea wewe unadiriki vipi kusema RPF haikuua kwa makusudi?
Tukio hili la Kibeho kwenye hii thread ni moja tu, yapo mengine mengi. Tofauti ni kuwa hili la kibeho wako waustralia ambao serikali ya RPF haiwezi kubishana nao juu ya ushahidi wa nini hasa kilitokea. Matukio mengine kwa bahati mbaya hayana mashahidi "weupe" kama unanielewa. Wote watakaohadithia kwa vile ni wahutu wataambiwa wao ni wapinzani, wafuasi wa interahamwe, wafuasi wa FDLR na mengine mengi.

4. Interahamwe kilikuwa kikundi cha vijana cha chama tawala cha MNRD, kulikuwapo pia na vikundi vingine vya vijana wa vyama vingine as well. hata bongo wapo red brigade, wako green guard, wako uvccm, wako bavicha etc. Logically, kama Chadema ikifa hakuwezi kuwa na bavicha, CCM ikifa hakuwezi kuwa na UVCCM. Hao interahamwe we umewaona wapi ilihali MNRD haipo? Interahamwe wote kama wapo ni fugitives, unayo orodha ya interahamwe wanaotafutwa? Interahamwe is gone. Nakutahadharisha tu kuwa sheria ya cybercrime imesainiwa, ulivyoandika kuwa " Intarahamwe wapo wanasubiri the right time kuanzisha mauaji tena" nadhani unatakiwa kuwa na uthibitisho....

But do you believe kuwa ndani ya Makambi yote ya Wakimbizi wakati huo yalikuwa na idadi kubwa ya Interahamwe na Askari wa Habyarimana na wote walikuwa na Siraha ambazo ziliwafanya washikilie mateka raia wasiokuwa na hatia? Si Kibeho, Si Benako, si Mugunga etc. unaelewa kuwa ndani ya Kambi zote hizo mauaji yalikuwa yanaendelea yakiendeshwa na Askari walioshindwa na hata Interahamwe. Unafahamu story za kufukuza mashetani ndani ya hizo kambi kwa kupiga madebe kwa wingi saa za jioni? Hizi Kambi zote zilikuwa lazima zivunjwe kwani zilikuwa zinahatarisha usalama wa nchi, na hata usalama wa raia wema within the Camps who wanted to go home. hakukuwa na jinsi ya kuzivunja bila kutumia nguvu na ikibidi nguvu ya ziada kwani ndani mlikuwa bado na shehena za siraha, na still Wafaransa walikuwa wanaingiza siraha zingine through operation tourquise, so ulitegemea RPA iangalie tu huku raia wakiteseka, huku adui anajiimarisha no way, any country in such situation would have done the same.

Halafu rafiki yangu JMali acha kupotosha, Ufalme wa Rwanda uliishi kwa zaidi ya karne saba, hapajawahi kuwa na ufalme wa Kitusi, Mfalme alikuwa wa watu wote kama kawaida ya ufalme wowote, unarithiwa na familia moja tu na all people were subject of the King, Wafalme wa Rwanda waliwapenda raia wote sawa kwa sawa kwani hizo ndio zilikuwa nguvu zake, ndio maana wafalme hao wa Rwanda waliwalinda raia wote. na walitoa hukumu iliyokuwa just kama ufalme wowote Duniani kwa wakati huo. Unataka kutufanya tuamini theory za mataifa mawili tofauti, ambapo moja linawahutu na jingine lina watusti na Taifa la Kitutsi kuvamia na kutawala taifa la kihutu???hahahahah :becky::becky:
Kama unayoyasema yangekuwa kweli mbona baada ya kuvunja hizo kambi zote hizo RPA iliwapokea na kuwasindikiza hadi makwao? kwanini haikuendelea kuwaua? kilichokuwa kikifanyika ilikuwa kutenganisha wakosaji na raia wema, raia wema walisindikizwa hadi makwao, wauaji walikamatwa na kupema waliyoyapanda.

 

[jMali]

But do you believe kuwa ndani ya Makambi yote ya Wakimbizi wakati huo yalikuwa na idadi kubwa ya Interahamwe na Askari wa Habyarimana na wote walikuwa na Siraha ambazo ziliwafanya washikilie mateka raia wasiokuwa na hatia? Si Kibeho, Si Benako, si Mugunga etc. unaelewa kuwa ndani ya Kambi zote hizo mauaji yalikuwa yanaendelea yakiendeshwa na Askari walioshindwa na hata Interahamwe. Unafahamu story za kufukuza mashetani ndani ya hizo kambi kwa kupiga madebe kwa wingi saa za jioni? Hizi Kambi zote zilikuwa lazima zivunjwe kwani zilikuwa zinahatarisha usalama wa nchi, na hata usalama wa raia wema within the Camps who wanted to go home. hakukuwa na jinsi ya kuzivunja bila kutumia nguvu na ikibidi nguvu ya ziada kwani ndani mlikuwa bado na shehena za siraha, na still Wafaransa walikuwa wanaingiza siraha zingine through operation tourquise, so ulitegemea RPA iangalie tu huku raia wakiteseka, huku adui anajiimarisha no way, any country in such situation would have done the same.

Halafu rafiki yangu JMali acha kupotosha, Ufalme wa Rwanda uliishi kwa zaidi ya karne saba, hapajawahi kuwa na ufalme wa Kitusi, Mfalme alikuwa wa watu wote kama kawaida ya ufalme wowote, unarithiwa na familia moja tu na all people were subject of the King, Wafalme wa Rwanda waliwapenda raia wote sawa kwa sawa kwani hizo ndio zilikuwa nguvu zake, ndio maana wafalme hao wa Rwanda waliwalinda raia wote. na walitoa hukumu iliyokuwa just kama ufalme wowote Duniani kwa wakati huo. Unataka kutufanya tuamini theory za mataifa mawili tofauti, ambapo moja linawahutu na jingine lina watusti na Taifa la Kitutsi kuvamia na kutawala taifa la kihutu???hahahahah :becky::becky:
Kama unayoyasema yangekuwa kweli mbona baada ya kuvunja hizo kambi zote hizo RPA iliwapokea na kuwasindikiza hadi makwao? kwanini haikuendelea kuwaua? kilichokuwa kikifanyika ilikuwa kutenganisha wakosaji na raia wema, raia wema walisindikizwa hadi makwao, wauaji walikamatwa na kupema waliyoyapanda.

1. Rafiki yangu umslopa, kibeho na makambi mengine yalitambulika kama makambi ya wakimbizi kwa sheria za kimataifa, ndio maana kulikuwa na vikosi vya kimataifa kama hao Australians. Hivi inawezekanaje kwa vikosi vya kimataifa kulinda kambi ya wakimbizi ambao eti wanashikiliwa mateka na interahamwe? Tena kwa mwaka mzima?

Operation tourquise ambayo by the way ilifanyika chini ya mandate ya UN, iliisha August 1994, wewe hiyo ya kwako ya 1995 unayotumia ku-justify mauaji ya wahutu wasio na hatia umeitoa wapi!? Sometimes nyinyi "cheerleaders" wa kagame mnachekesha, so unataka kusema the french walikuwa bado Rwanda for a whole year wakiingiza silaha wakati kagame tayari ameshakamata madaraka? By the way mandate ya operation tourquise haikuruhusu ufaransa kuingilia mgogoro! Thats why Kagame alidiriki kuteka askari wa Ufaransa akishinikiza wafaransa wabadili utendaji wao kazi ili aue zaidi! Kuwa mshabiki wa kagame sometimes unahitaji kuwa chizi (with all due respect), hivi hujisikii aibu kupotosha mambo ambayo mtu yoyote anaweza ku-google?

Sababu ya mauaji ni hii: Kagame hakukubalika na wanyarwanda wote, especially wahutu. Ndio maana wakimbizi wa kihutu waliokimbia atrocities za RPF hawakutaka kurudi nyumbani kwa sababu kagame hakuwa kiongozi halali, RPF walikuwa ni waasi wasio na support base yoyote ile serious ndani ya Rwanda. RPF waliona kuwa kuwapo kwa idadi kubwa ya wanyarwanda ambao hawataki uongozi wao ni aibu, hio ndio sababu iliyowafanya kuvunja kwa nguvu makambi ndani na nje ya Rwanda ili kujenga picha kwamba mapinduzi yao yanakubalika. Huwezi kusema ume "liberate" nchi ambapo wananchi majority walikukimbia during the so called liberation na wanaishi kwenye makambi ya wakimbizi yanayotambuliwa na UN! Ndio maana hata nikiku challenge ulete idadi ya hao "interahamwe" na askari wa habyarimana waliokuwa wanatafutwa humo kibeho HUWEZI KULETA! kwa sababu ingawa obviously walikuwapo, RPF huwa haipendi kuongea statistics, hivyo inaacha idadi ya interahamwe, FDLR, FAR na maadui wengine wote iwe OPEN-ENDED/INFINITY, ili kila mpinzani asingiziwe kuwa ameuawa kwa sababu alikuwa mwanachama wa kimojawapo, which begs the question hawa interahamwe/ex-FAR/FDLR HAWAISHI? WALIKUWA WANGAPI JUMLA?
Hadi leo wako wakimbizi over 100,000 toka Rwanda ambao UNHCR ikitaka kufuta ukimbizi wao ili warudi Rwanda, wao wanakataa na kutoa ushahidi unaobadilisha maamuzi ya UNHCR! Na hawa sio wale wa DRC ambao utakuwa na haraka ya kudai wanashikiliwa mateka na FDLR, NO! hawa wako zambia, uganda, malawi, SA etc. Na hawa nao wanashikiliwa mateka?

Mi nadhani turudi kwenye specifics za habari, hilo ndilo la msingi. Maelezo kama haya hapa chini wewe una-justify vipi? au wewe unadai hawa waustralia kina Paul ni waongo? Did the below happened or not? Hiyo picha ya mtoto aliyebebwa ni ya interahamwe au ex-FAR?

"The first sign was watching the RPA clear the villages and hills around it. People being forced out and as they ran, they were made to run. They would shoot them. And they did it in a grotesque way. They'd shoot them in the leg and then they'd laugh at them and then watch them trying to get up and eventually put a bullet in their head or somewhere fatal".
"The Rwandans had machine guns, they had mortars, and all set up to mow these people down; which they did. And while this was going on, there were also people running within these poor people with machetes killing them from within as well. So these displaced persons were being hit from both sides; from the army and from militias from within the camp".

"They were threatened by the RPF, who Gittoes says "pointed a gun at Jon's head and said ‘if you pick up one more baby, we will kill you'."

sources: Australian troops remember Kibeho massacre in Rwanda | NT News

Je hawa watoto RPF illikuwa inawaua kwa sababu ni interahamwe au kwa sababu ni watoto wa kihutu?

2. Kila mtu anaweza ku-google na kujionea mwenyewe kama ufalme wa Rwanda haukuwa wa kitutsi au la, kama Mhutu aliruhusiwa kuwa mfalme au la, halafu akaamua mwenyewe ni nani kati yangu mimi na wewe anapotosha.

3. Kwa lugha za Rwanda, "raia wema" ni wale wanaokubali kuwa Kagame ni mtawala halali na hawampingi. "wakosaji" ni wale wapinzani wa aina yoyote ile. Ndio maana muanzilishi wa FDLR alikuwa "mkosaji" aliyeunda kikundi cha magaidi walioua watutsi, leo hii baada ya kununuliwa na serikali amegeuka kuwa "raia mwema" hana kesi hata moja! Interahamwe na ex-FAR toka lini ilijumuisha wanawake na watoto? Maana hao ndio majority ya wahanga wa kibeho massacre.

 

[alubati]

Nashukuru kwa kukubaliana na mimi kwa kipengele cha kwanza ulichaandika hapo chini. But kwa niliyotia alama nyekundu sitaki kujadiliana na wewe maana nywele zinanisisimka ninapooana unawatetetea Intarahamwe inderectly.
Kwa kifupi RPF waliua wakati wanaikomboa Rwanda, na walilenga hao shetani wanywa damu. Kama kuna mtu aliyeuwawa ambae hakuwa shetani basi ilikuwa si kwa makusudi. Tena nisisitize hawakuwalenga wahutu bali walilenga Intarahmwe, maana ipo toufauti kati ya wahutu na intrahamwe maana sio wahutu wote ni intarahamwe.
Intarahamwe wapo wanasubiri the right time kuanzisha mauaji tena.

Kuna mauaji mengine ya kimbari dhidi ya watutsi yatakuja tena.time will tell...

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[Mr Putin]

ndugu najibu hoja zako moja baada ya nyingine:

1. Interahamwe ni wabaya kama walivyo hao ISIS, boko haram na wengineo. Lakini sidhani kama ni busara kulinganisha uovu wa kikundi kimoja na kingine. Hawa wote ni waovu. Lakini swali langu lingine ni hili, hawa wote walioperate kwenye mazingira tofauti na malengo tofauti. ISIS wanalenga wakristo, interahamwe walilenga watutsi, hitler alilenga wayahudi...Sasa wewe unasema interahamwe wanakuogopesha, je wewe ni mtutsi? kama wewe ni mtutsi basi ondoa shaka, according to kagame, interahamwe walikuwa defeated within 100 days, na wote wameshafungwa rwanda kwa makosa yao. Leo hii hakuna interahamwe.

2. Sidhani kama kuna mtu yoyote anayetetea maovu ya interahamwe, we umemuona wapi mtu wa namna hiyo? Isije ikawa unachukulia kuwa anayepinga uongo wa serikali ya RPF juu ya interahamwe maana yake ni kukubaliana na interahamwe. Hebu fafanua vizuri ni nani anayetetea maovu ya interahamwe?

3. Interahamwe wameshahukumiwa kwa ubaya wao, na leo hawako tena. Lakini RPF iliyofanya hayo mauaji yasiyotofautiana hata chembe na yale ya interahamwe, tena zaidi ya interahamwe kwa sababu interahamwe walitumia mapanga wakati RPF walitumia automatic machine guns...BADO WAPO, HAWAJAHUKUMIWA, na bado wanaendeleza u "reverse-interahamwe" wao mpaka leo! I respectfully disagree with you because since interahamwe don't exist anymore, the only threat to Rwandan safety today is the RPF government led by Paul kagame.

Even you! You are interahamwe because you spread the interahamwe ideology. Kama ideology yako sio ya kuunga watu k unity watu,unachuki,ubaguzi basi we ni nterahamwe maana ukipewa uwezo u can do what interahamwe did.na kuandi kiswahili it doesn't mean we mbogo No!wapo interahamwe walio achiwa na mahakama pale arusha wakaomba hifazi may be you are the one!