Kenya declares war on Al Shabaab!


Funny you are not even aware of Somali pirate attacks in Tanzanian waters:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-11437756
Somali pirates have hijacked a cargo ship with 15 Indian crew off the coast of Tanzania, a maritime watchdog said.

The MT Asphalt Venture was heading to Durban after unloading its cargo of bitumen at Mombasa, Kenya, when it was attacked about 110 miles (175km) south-east of Dar es Salaam.

Ecoterra International said the vessel turned around and began heading towards the Somali port of Harardhere.

The ship is owned by United Arab Emirates company Bitumen Invest.
 

Okay, inform us. You claim otherwise.
 

After the power of the emperor was restored after 1869, Japan began opening up more to the world and modernizing along western lines. After watching China being bullied by the western powers, Japan launched a military moderinization. They modeled their navy along British lines and their army along Prussian/German lines. The Navy and the Army both held more sway than civilians in the government and often premiers (basically like a prime minister) would be an officer in the military.
The Emperor technically was an autocrat, but the emperor, considered God-like didn't actually rule in a way like the Russian Tsars or European monarchs of the past, but in fact held councils and gave advice to his ministers.

In 1905, fighting over who would be the dominant power in Manchuria and Korea, Russia and Japan went to war and Japan's modernizing proved successful as they easily defeated and humiliated the Russians, destroying virtually the entire Russian Navy at the Battles of Port Arthur and Tsushima.

At this time, Japan was an ally of Britain and when World War I started in 1914, Japan was a member of the allies and defeated some German ships in the Pacific and took over some German colonies along the Chinese coast. At the end of the war, Japan got screwed, basically, and they felt the West had no respect for them.

In the 1921 Washington Naval Conference, Japan was a participant, but wasn't granted battleship and carrier tonnage that would be on par with Britain and the US, this further convinced the Japanese that the West had no respect for them.

By the 1930's, Japan had become an empire, a modern nation and hungry for more land, more control in East Asia and access to natural resources. So in 1937, they invaded China, which irritated the west (although not Germany and Italy), particularly the United States, who felt that most of China was in the American sphere of influence. During that period, in order to regain influence in Manchuria, they fought a brief and disastrous war against the Soviets.

All of this, especially the need for natural resources like Rubber and Oil put them on a collision course with the West, particularly Britain, the US, France (who controlled rubber in Southeast Asia), and the Netherlands (who controlled oil in Indonesia).

Therefore Japan was not the impoverished nation you claim it was. It was the strongest nation in the far east. It is worth it to know the facts before bringing anything up!!!!!!
 
Mekatilili said:
On this forum you have been fantasising about the death of Kenyans and the attack of Kenyans by the Al Shabaab and everyone on this forum can attest to that even your fellow Tanzanians have called you out on your negativity !
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This kid is really out of his mind, can you show any post(s) i fantasized about death of Kenyans?. Who (which post by a Tanzanian) called on me to stop my negativity?...Yes, this war is all wrong, if the problem is much worse at home will invading another country be a panacea???Nope, this is like signing a warrant for more trouble in the future!

If a considerable section of Kenya population don't support your war what about other nationals?. Why these days lot of Kenyan youth (with no Somali background/origin) are ready to be recruited by, and fight for the enemy (Alshabaab), is it because of hunger?...:tongue:

So far the most casualties of this war are results of your fellow Kenyan citizen (a hardcore Alshabaab member) trying to massacre his own people in Nairobi. We all still remember how your fellow Kenyan citizens (another Al Shabaab members) murdered lot of Ugandans and other foreigners in Kampala.

Below is a further solid proof of what iv said earlier, i hope you will not insult the author as usual...


Kenya: Al-Shabaab Recruits in Nairobi's Slums


Koert Lindijer 3 November 2011


John is gently kicking the ball against the wall, still a bit insecure after his long absence from the football team in Majengo, one of the many Nairobi slums. "Once recruited to fight in Somalia, you never come back to Kenya", he says. "I had already been taken by al-Shabaab to the northeastern town of Garissa and was on my way to Somalia, but after Kenya's intervention in Somalia last month al-Shabaab got nervous and sent me back."

His coach Ochieng has welcomed John back, but not without a stern lecture. "I have been telling all of you in my team not to listen to these recruiters for al-Shabaab here in Majengo. They are cheating you, they are brainstorming you, and they don't take care of you". Little John grumbles. "It is not true, coach. These people of al-Shabaab gave us shelter in the mosque, they gave us food and clothes, and even some pocket money".

Anti-al-Shabaab campaign

Ochieng shakes his head. "These small kids don't have brains, really", he complains. "Shabaab, Shabaab, they cheer every day. But do they know about terrorism, about grenade attacks in Nairobi? Majengo is a fertile ground for recruitment into militia like al-Shabaab, but do these kids realise they will probably die soon?"

The coach is leading a campaign in Majengo against al-Shabaab recruiters. "It is very likely Shabaab will target me because of this", he says, "because I am spoiling their business." Sources in Majengo say about 80 to 90 youths have already left for Somalia.

New generation of terrorists

"An alarming trend," said the UN in a report earlier this year about the activities of al-Shabaab-affiliated groups in East Africa. Hundreds of youths have already joined these militias.

When Kenya recently sent troops into Somalia, the government in Nairobi vowed to finish al-Shabaab's activities in the neighbouring country once and for all. But the al-Qaeda-linked Islamist militants may pose a bigger threat at home.

The Kenyan al-Shabaab groups form a close network with cells in Nairobi, Mombasa, Eldoret and Garissa, according to the UN report.

After Kenya's military offensive they came into action and, in an act of revenge, carried out several grenade attacks in the Kenyan capital. "These groups may be the new generation of terrorists in East Africa," concludes the UN report.

Holier than the pope

Many of the recruits in Kenya are not ethnic Somalis, but members of other Kenyan tribal groups. They have denounced their original religious beliefs and become ardent adherents of radical Islam. They want to be holier than the pope, or so it seems.

Robert Omolo is the father of 16-year-old 'lost son' Victor. "He was such a lovely kid, a real family person," Omolo says. But Victor changed. "He changed his religion and started visiting the mosque in Majengo. These kids spend their time in the mosque until deep in the night; sometimes they even sleep there." When Victor did visit his family, he easily flew into a temper. He did not respect his father anymore.

Bribery

One day father Omolo received a visit from Reagan, a well-known recruiter in Majengo. He offered Omolo money, if he would remain quiet about Victor joining al-Shabaab. "I refused the offer, but I am sure some other parents accepted it. The police keep their eyes closed about this recruitment."

"That is it", Omolo concludes abruptly. "I will not say anything anymore. I don't want to end up dead. It is still too dangerous to talk about al-Shabaab here." The recruiters seem to have gone underground for now; in any case they have all but disappeared from Majengo.

Source:
http://allafrica.com/stories/201111040876.html


I expect a civil discussion of the matter, particularly the above article.....:lol:
 
Lonestriker said:
Mind you it is not the economy mighty muscles that wins you a war
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If you really think that, then you have no business commenting about war because you know nothing about the topic. The determining factor in every war is economic muscle, ALWAYS! That's why the axis lost WWII because the allies had greater economic resources and the axis powers were outproduced by the allies (even though, oftentimes, they produced superior equipment). That's a shockingly ignorant statement right there!
 

So, to you, this kind of thing is something to take pleasure in?
 
kshaka said:
So, to you, this kind of thing is something to take pleasure in?
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Pleasure to who? to Kenyans Al Shabaab terrorists who are killing East Africans left right and center?.

Solve the real/actual problem at home ask yourself why more and more ethnic Kenyans of non-Somali origin feel the pleasure of joining the terrorist?. This is a typical social system breakdown!, Kenyan youths are beginning to loose hope, now it has become clearer that the Al Shabaab problem is not only about religion it is also about poverty!.

Leaders will always continue miss leading you for their own benefit. Few months ago people were dying in the north and central Kenya because of hunger your leaders told you that the government don't have enough resources right? (btw, some of them were even stealing food aid). Good Lord, now all the sudden they have all the resources to the extent of mobilizing and invasion to another country... what a joke!. By the end of this so-called war we will see more millionaires...and more poor people.
 

Well, the way you speak about it is as if anything that goes wrong in Kenya gives you great pleasure.

We know that we have problems in Kenya and no one is more critical of us than we can be ourselves. The thing is though, we are trying to sort ourselves out. It goes slowly most of the time and can be very frustrating. Sometimes we regress a bit but, ultimately, we are trying. One of the more important things we have achieved is we have finally managed to reign in the government to prevent the arbitrary deployment of state power against the rights of the individual and make government more accountable to it's citizens. Undoubtedly, there'll be other failures before there are any successes but we are trying. We are under no illusion about the challenges ahead of us but, again, we are trying! We are attempting to tackle the greatest challenges facing our country...nowadays, even the PM can be grilled in parliament whenever a hint of corruption rears its ugly head. In the past, we wouldn't even know until years later when scandals happened, so you can see we are making progress. We really are trying! How goes it in your patch?

Back to your post, the governemnt never said that it had no resources to take care of those affected by the famine...that's a lie on your part. You can even see some of the action that the government took ato alleviate suffering here;

 
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You can also see some of the actions that Kenyans took to assist their own countrymen here;

 
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The problem with individuals like you is you are completely unaware of what you are talking of. How many Kenyans do you know of that have joined al shabaab. Give us an actual figure.

How many Kenyans died of Starvation in Central and northern Kenya???
You are completely unaware of the situation in Kenya. The only people that were suffering from the famine were in northern Kenya and these are some of the pastrolists who after the failure of the rains were promptly taken care of by the rest of Kenya and the government. These people occupy the large swathes of land in the dry north and are vulnerable to climate change.

In the rest of Kenya, their was more than enough food so your attempt to make the few people in northern Kenya that were facing a famine sound like the majority of Kenyans is indeed laughable.

Isn't it more important though to focus on Tanzanians who are more impoverished and have poorer living conditions in east Africa & a more corrupt government, the worst infrastructure and lowest educational standards in the region.

Fix your dire situation first.
 
kshaka said:
You can also see some of the actions that Kenyans took to assist their own countrymen here;

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I know this Kenyans for Kenya initiative, not only it is a smart idea but also a great show of true patriotism!. A colleague and friend of mine is a secretary of an association of Kenyans living here...So i know how much hectic it have been, i myself also contributed something.

Bwana Kshaka, the problem is not the Kenyan public the problem is your leaders, it seems they don't get they priority right who doesn't know that war is very costly affair?. Trust me, the best strategy (iv seen many Kenyans on-net and off-net who also subscribe to this!) would be to secure the borders while deal with the internal threat first. You could do the invasion thing later, but now the borders are still porous (as we read latest news of more tourist kidnappings!), yet so many disenchanted youth (who have became terrorist themselves) are roaming ready to pounce any moment someone should go back to the drawing board and improvise or re-draw the war strategy before it become too late...Guess what, they wont do that!!. Because, they are the ones who have secured tenders to supply food, fuel, groceries, even more ammo to the troops! that the truth my friend.
 
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We have a land border of 682km with Somalia, not to mention the sea....it is impossible to close. If the US has found it impossible to seal off the 300 km Texas border between Mexico and the US, what makes you think it's possible that Kenya can do the same with a much longer border. In addition, there is a veritable armada of the most advanced navies in the world patrolling off the Somali coast but they have been unable to stem piracy attacks...you think Kenya can do better than these? If people want to say that Kenya should have acted differently, they should, at least, offer feasible alternatives, no?

Look, we know that the action we have taken is expensive, but inaction would have been much more expensive. The reason that the cost of living has gone up so much in East Africa over the last few years is because of Somali piracy...it affects you too. This has already precipitated cost of living riots in Uganda and the poor in Kenya (and Tanzania, i'm sure) are badly affected by the chaos in Somalia. You say you care about the poor, but doing nothing actually affects the poor in East Africa more than it does the rich. This is not to mention the threat they pose to Kenya's future economic prosperity...and i'm not just talking about tourism here...and to the lives of Kenyans. Would you that we didn't protect ourselves and our economic interests because of a few fanatics with AK's?
 
Mekatilili said:
The problem with individuals like you is you are completely unaware of what you are talking of. How many Kenyans do you know of that have joined al shabaab. Give us an actual figure.
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The record speaks for itself, so far Kenyans have participated in all major terrorist attacks by AlShabaab in East Africa. I wont be surprised to hear that KDF will encounter more enemy of their own blood deeper in the Jungle of Samalia...

Mekatilili said:
How many Kenyans died of Starvation in Central and northern Kenya???
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I value life and i suppose you also do, are you of opinion that that few deaths (which can be easily avoided) is good for you???


It is has been a norm for you to turn the problem/discussion at hand into an opportunity to stage beauty contests...:tongue:. Perhaps you are diverting the real issue deliberately because one of your family member is a corrupt politician who stand to benefit from the so-called war on terror????
 

I hear you, but lets be honest to each other here. For ages the Kenyan economy particularly Nairobi's (look at the construction boom!) has benefited from the ill gains of piracy business. Not long ago there was so much money circulating in your economy that Finance Minister bwana Kenyatta mdogo couldn't explain where it came from!...In-fact pirates didn't want to mess with Kenya because this is where they were laundering their money....they mounted an attack in Kampala and elsewhere but not in Nairobi, things have only changed now because of this invasion.

Btw, are we certain sure that the kidnappings that led to an invasion were carried out by AlShabaab? aren't you fighting the wrong enemy? are the Pirates and AlShabaab one and the same group????

Occasional kidnappings of European/American tourists happens everywhere, in the world in Egypt, South Africa, Morocco etc... but these countries still attract large numbers of tourists.....

If it it was about the anticipated new port infrastructure at Lamu then i think the donors/backers have given you a wrong advice. The war is a guarantee of future hostilities in those facilities as you know terrorists organizations are attracted to large infrastructure.

I'm sure the GOK could do what the Americans always do, infiltrate the organization and install some people who you can work with in order to secure some relative peace (no matter how short it may be...). There is an article i will post about the immunity of Somali pirates from the Americans....
 
[video=youtube_share;kb654V2INE8]http://youtu.be/kb654V2INE8[/video]
 
[video=youtube_share;WSOuMgYA39k]http://youtu.be/WSOuMgYA39k[/video]
 

We can go back and forth with this all day but it doesn't really serve any purpose. The long and short of it is that we, Kenyans, have found ourselves in a situation where the chaos and instability in the neighbouring country is having a negative effect on our wellbeing. As such, our government has decided, in conjunction with the Somali government, to take steps to rectify the situation. You might think that we have been "badly advised" but, personally, I don't think that our political and military strategists are morons...they know what they are doing and they'll have thought this through.
 

Brother please do more research first before displaying your ignorance in writting!For your information there was famine only in NORTH EASTERN KENYA which borders somalia(check your map brother)but other parts of the country especialy CENTRAL KENYA is very fertile all the way to the RIFT VALLEY AND WESTERN REGIONS!learn more about kenya before commenting.
 
US Senate withholds funding for Kenya military
By BMJ Muriithi


The United States Senate has passed a Bill imposing conditions on military assistance to Kenya.


In its 2012 fiscal year report, the Supreme US law-making organ states that the foreign military and economic support funds will not be made available to Kenya until the Government establishes "thorough and credible investigations of alleged crimes by the Kenyan Military in Mt Elgon in March 2008″.


But in a swift reaction, Kenya's ambassador to the United States Elkanah Odembo said the action of the Senate was ill advised as it was taken without seeking the position of the Kenyan government on the issue.


Speaking to The Standard On Saturday in his office in Washington DC, the envoy said it was wrong for the US legislature to embed an accusatory clause in the Bill without consulting the Kenyan Government.....

Never trust the Americans my friend....:lol:
Mekatilili said:
[video=youtube_share;WSOuMgYA39k]http://youtu.be/WSOuMgYA39k[/video]
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