Is Kenya heading back to 1964?


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Is Kenya heading back to 1964?



Gibson Kamau Kuria

When Senator Murkomen stated that there is a conspiracy to cripple the Senate and have it wound up, he probably used an understatement. Probably, there is a plan to return Kenya to the constitutional order which obtained between 1960s and 1991.


J. H. Proctor Jr., in an article titled ‘The Role of Senate in the Kenyan Political System' observed that ‘a little more than a month after the meeting of the Senate on 7th June, 1963, an Opposition Member of Parliament voiced the suspicion that some Ministers had a negative attitude towards that House and that there was a rumour circulating that the Senate might be washed out'. He further says that in 1964, the Leader of Government Business acknowledged that there had been wide speculation as to whether the Senate should be scrapped.

One hopes that what Senator Murkomen said, will not prove prophetic. If it does, Kenya may be commencing a cycle of constitutional amendments which commenced in 1964 and ended in 1988. By that time, among other organs, the Police Service Commission and the Senate had been abolished.

The country was a one – party State in which the Attorney General, the Judiciary and Auditor General had lost their independence. Rule of law and constitutionalism had been greatly undermined, if not, virtually banished. The Members of Parliament have made it clear, in the course of their debates, that they consider their House to be the Superior House.

That notion is now embodied in the Bill which was assented to by the President on 10th June, 2013. One hastens to add that according to his statement, the President did not assent it because he supported its principle but rather that, he feared that there would be a government shut down if no money was approved by government before 30th June, 2013.

When Bill Clinton was the President and Professor Gingrich was the Speaker of the Lower House or which is also known as the House of Representatives, the government shut down for a few days because of lack of funds. No doubt, that was the consideration of the President.

There are some members of the National Assembly who would like the country to return to the one – party era which was banished by the referendum of 4th August, 2010 which brought in the new Constitution. Honourable Mithika's motion to nullify the Legal Notice which communicated the new salaries of MPs is based on an outdated notion of supremacy of the Parliament.

That motion disregarded the powers of the Salaries and Remuneration Commission under section 231 of the Constitution to determine the salaries of the Members of Parliament. Similarly, the disregard of the views of the Senate on the Division of Revenue Bill is based on the same outdated notion. Before 4th August, 2010, our Constitution established a single chamber Parliament and a unitary government. It had no devolved government, the one established by the 1963 Constitution having been abolished in 1965 through a constitutional amendment. If the devolved government is killed at birth, we shall return to the unitary or centralised government.

In 1966, the Senate, the second chamber of Parliament under the 1963 Constitution, was abolished through a constitutional amendment. Honourable Murkomen was hinting at this possibility or plan.

Recently, Honourable Irungu Kang'atta, the MP for Kiharu, informed the country that he will be bringing a Constitutional Amendment bill through which he will start a process of abolishing the Senate. Even if he tables such a Bill and it is passed, by virtue of Article 265 of the Constitution, it will require a referendum to become law because it is a Bill touching on "the Supremacy of the Constitution, the Sovereignty of the people, the function of Parliament, objects, principals and structure of devolved government".

The 1966 abolition of the Senate was part of a bigger project of dismantling the constitutional order which was established by the 1963 Constitution. That project was discussed by former Attorney General, Mr. C. N. Njonjo in an article titled, ‘Recent Constitutional Changes in Kenya' which he published in the 1965 Issue of the East Africa Law Journal.

To achieve that goal, the Parliament then used the very notion which is being touted today by the National Assembly, purportedly derived from the British Constitution. According to that notion, the British Parliament has the power to make whatever constitutional changes it desires. In practice, however, that does not happen. From time to time, the British government organises for referenda on issues of fundamental concern to the British people. It has been announced that a referendum will be held to decide if Britain should remain in the European Union.

The notion used in Kenya is opposed to the principle in a democracy of a limited government. That absolute power is reserved to the people who can replace one Constitution with another. As long ago as 1970, in Ukunda v R, (1970) EA 453, a constitutional court held that in Kenya, we have the supremacy of the Constitution and not that of Parliament or one organ of government.

The Constitution is the expression of the will of the people. The supremacy of people is expressed in the Pre – amble of the Constitution which, inter alia, states that,
: "We, people of Kenya, …….., adopt, enact and give this Constitution to ourselves and our future generations."

The Constitution belongs to the present and future generations – not to either of the two chambers of the current Parliament.

As the two – chamber Parliament of 1964 found cumbersome the exercise of the power to amend the Constitution which required it to get the support of 75% of all Members of the National Assembly for some provisions and 90% support of all the members of the Senate for the same provisions, it persuaded the two Houses to accept an amendment whereby any amendment to the Constitution would require the support of only 65% of all the members of either House. Once this amendment was passed, the die was cast. The following Constitutional amendments were passed, thereafter:

a. to merge, in 1964, the Offices of the Prime Minister with that of Head of State and called the New Office ‘The President' who wielded more power than Presidents wield in democracies; and abolished the Police Service Commissions;
b. in 1965, to abolish the Devolved Government then known as Regionalism;
c. in 1966, to abolish the Senate;
d. in 1982, to abolish multi – partyism;
e. in 1987, to abolish the independence of the Attorney General;
f. in 1988, to abolish the independence of the Judiciary and the Auditor and Controller General.

It is the undemocratic philosophy embodied in the notion of Supremacy of Parliament being used now which caused the very suffering which led to the call for the rewriting of the Constitution. Kenyans are asking, for how long they are going to continue rewriting their Constitutions?

Conclusion

Two sad things have emerged from the debates on the salaries of MPs and the Division of Revenue Bill. The first one is that the National Assembly does not have the legal advisors it ought to have. The second thing is that the members of the National Assembly do not understand that what we have in Kenya now is the supremacy of the Constitution or People and not that of either the National Assembly or the Senate.

Kenyans should now demand that the Division of Revenue Act be repealed and that they be given better services by their Members of Parliament.

Gibson Kamau Kuria is an Advocate and Senior Counsel

Capital Blog » Is Kenya heading back to 1964?
 
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upholding or abolishing regionilsm in itself is not the root problem, it is the ammending and re-ammending the constitution in favour of the interests of few individuals mainly those in politics. The clash for resources between the senate et al has nothing to do with the upkeep of county govts IMHO.

In many counties that practice devolution. Why does the 'senate' seem to be always at logger heads with the 'house of representatives'. The reason for this conflict is a tussle over who owns policy-making over funds for devolution. I do not know whether there is any better system worldwide to prevent the senate and house of representatives from crippling operations or running the country. maybe it can give you a clue of why in 1964 the senate was wiped out from the lancaster constitution.

we hurriedly passed the constituion which has no problem....did we take time to look what we were going into? who is to blame; man or paper?
 
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While i want to believe that these are only teething problems resulting from implementing the new constitutional dispensation, i' am nevertheless not inspired by confidence going by recent developments. A few people within and without government appear hellbent on killing this devolution thing.
 
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Wangechagua RAO hayo yasingekuwepo pole kwa Prof.Kindiki na msomi Murkomen,hiyo ndio serikali yenyu ya Jubilee,na kumbukeni mnaopinga serikali ya Jubilee mkiwa upande wa Jubilee mtakiona cha mtema kuni,muulizeni bingwa wa kucheza na kambako(bull) Bonny Khalwale,hiyo ndio faida ya kufuata mambo bila kufikiri eti sababu ni mla mbuzi mwenzetu na ni mmoja wetu.
 
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President Uhuru Kenyatta, Deputy President William Ruto test as Senate digs in

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[TD] Deputy President Ruto and Ethuro in Lodwar on Saturday, [Photo: Lucas][/TD]
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By Oscar Obonyo



NAIROBI, KENYA: Pricked by President Uhuru Kenyatta's decision to assent to the Division of Revenue Bill, members of the Senate have declared a spirited political and legal battle for personal survival and to defend what they consider an assault on devolution.

With a case already filed in the Supreme Court seeking interpretation on whether Uhuru acted lawfully, the legislators on Saturday officially kicked off countrywide rallies to "sensitise Kenyans" on significance and roles of county governments.

And the venue of the first rally in Turkana County - during the homecoming party of Senate Speaker Ekwe Ethuro - couldn't have been more appropriate. Though couched as "sensitising Kenyans," the rallies are bound to be charged political platforms where venomous tirades will be directed at the Executive.

Well aware that the issue at hand is a hot potato, Deputy President William Ruto, who was initially not expected at the event, made a surprise showing in Turkana - perhaps to cool off the political heat. On Saturday, Ruto defended the Jubilee Government against claims that it wants to frustrate devolution. Ruto scoffed at a move by Senators to move to the Supreme Court over President Uhuru's move to assent to the Division of Revenue Bill making it law.

The Deputy President said the Senators' intention to push for a referendum to fight the President's move was ill-advised.

"No one is trying to kill devolution. I think we have got this all wrong. During the campaigns we made it clear that we would fully support devolution," he told guests at the Ethuro's homecoming on Saturday. They included 16 Senators and six MPs. Senators who spoke before Ruto, however, said they would push on with their plans to protect devolution. Ruto said President Uhuru just followed the law in assenting to the Bill but that did not mean flow of revenue to the counties would be curtailed. "If Senators think money to the counties is inadequate, they should just liaise with their counterparts in the National Assembly and increase it," he said.

Besides the drama, senators want to push for amendments to the Constitution. Towards this end, The Standard On Sunday has learnt of an ad-hoc meeting scheduled this Tuesday to explore avenues of the same. According to its convener, Busia County Senator and Chairman of Legal Affairs and Human Rights Committee, Amos Wako, members will pick out critical clauses for amendment through a popular initiative with a view to protecting devolution.

Quoting Article 257 of the Constitution, the former Attorney-General explains that this initiative will require the collection of at least one million signatures, to be forwarded to the electoral body. The Independent Boundaries and Electoral Commission will in turn send a memorandum to the County Assemblies for debate and determination. "If majority of the assemblies approve the amendments, then the Senate and National Assembly will ratify the same by simple majority. Failure of the same will provide that the matter is determined through a referendum," says Wako.

Crisis at hand

Nominated Senator Dr Agnes Zani points out that contrary to emerging perception, the crisis at hand is not a fight for self-survival by the Senators: "This is not about us but the country. The question, therefore, should be whether or not the President and his Deputy are committed to devolution."

Because of its key place in the democratic process, Leader of Majority in the Senate, Prof Kindiki Kithure, observes that members of the Senate across the political divide are firmly united on devolution.

"We have received all manner of attacks from our National Assembly colleagues over this matter. Sadly, many people are assuming that the Senate lacks serious politicians. In here we have the best - the finest and most experienced and when we hit the campaign trail, we shall drive our point home," says the Senator, who is allied to TNA.

That those spearheading the agenda of the Senate are mainly from the TNA and the Ruto-led URP party, is a factor that is bound to put the concerned politicians on a collision course with their principals at the Executive. Besides Kindiki and Senate Speaker Ethuro, URP's Elgeyo Marakwet Senator Kipchumba Murkomen has also been a vocal defender of devolution. He also serves as Chairman of the Committee on Devolved Government.

National obligation


"We are not acting deliberately to contradict the President and his Deputy, but rather we have a national duty to defend the Constitution. Admittedly, though, this is a situation some of us are not comfortable with," he explains.

Murkomen opines that the situation has been worsened by the myopic leadership of the National Assembly that is playing into the trap of so-called supremacy battles between the two Houses. These hostilities, he claims, have been misinterpreted to the President and his Deputy. Nairobi County Senator Mike Mbuvi Sonko, who has opted to blame the President's advisers for the current hitch, shares this view.

The Senators view the decision by the President to assent to the Division of Revenue Bill as an attempt to starve the county governments of cash and frustrate devolution altogether. The Senate wanted Sh258 billion allocated to the counties, but they have had to contend with a lower Sh210 billion.

"It is neither the National Assembly's nor the Senate's role to allocate National and County governments funds - Of course this falls on Mr Micah Cheserem's Commission on Revenue Allocation (CRA) team," argues a top official in the National Treasury Ministry, who pleaded anonymity because he is not authorised to talk to the Press.

According to the official, CRA has already concluded this process after working on its calculation based on primary factors based on county populations and the poverty index.

"When the Treasury set the figure at Sh190 billion, Deputy President Ruto arbitrated between the Treasury and CRA. The result of this was the raising of the figure from Sh190 billion to Sh210 billion. And this was within the overall budget of Sh1.6 trillion," he says. But the Senate, he points out, proposed a Sh48 billion increase - from Sh210 billion to Sh258 billion, without consulting anyone: "What is more, the counties are two months old and they will spend the next year setting up. In fact, full services will be devolved to counties after three years".

Murkomen concurs that the current friction is linked to budgetary allocation. The Senate, he explains, is basically fighting for counties' interests, which translates to reducing the budget for the national government. "We are viewed as ‘enemies' because we are denying the National government latitude to access enough resources and control the government. Naturally they are unhappy with us, but the County governments are happy," says Murkomen.

In the meantime, Senators, who are yet to establish a kitty from which to finance their activities, continue with their push. Lately, they have been holding meetings in five-star hotels, the last of which they were joined by Governors and County Speakers across the country.


Standard Digital News - Kenya : President Uhuru Kenyatta, Deputy President William Ruto test as Senate digs in
 
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Where is the line of separation of powers btwn the two houses?

Which house is more powerful?

Can national assembly make decisions that can be vetoed by the senate?
 
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Echoes from the Jaramogi Oginga Odinga, Jomo Kenyatta battles on majimbo





Updated Saturday, June 15th 2013 at 23:09 GMT +3 [TABLE]
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By Oscar Obonyo

NAIROBI, KENYA: The storm raised by some members of the National Assembly on whether or not to abolish the Senate, rekindles the post-independence machinations under founding President Jomo Kenyatta that eventually killed the devolved system of government.

Coincidentally, the current drama is unfolding under the rule of Mzee Kenyatta's son, President Uhuru Kenyatta. The script and timing may be different, but the fears and concerns over dilution of devolution are the same.

In 1963, the Kenya African National Union (Kanu) Government of Mzee Kenyatta was reluctant to execute a foreign Constitution handed over to them by the colonial Government, or the
Majimbo Constitution, as it was popularly referred to. Presently, the apparent push against devolution has been fashioned as a supremacy battle between the National Assembly and the Senate.

Assented to Bill

Last Tuesday, the President assented to the Division of Revenue Bill, which allocates Sh210 billion to county governments. The Senators see this as an attempt to starve the county governments of cash and frustrate devolution altogether. The Senate wanted Sh258 billion allocated to the counties.

Same as in the Government of the senior Kenyatta, the implementation of devolved system of government has run into fresh impediments under Uhuru's Jubilee government, following his assent to the Division of Revenue Bill.

At independence, Kenyatta found an appropriate and ardent fixer to the "majimbo" system in the person of
Jaramogi Oginga Odinga – Kenya's first Vice-President. Jaramogi has previously confessed that he was personally convinced a regional system was the worst.

Duplication of functions

"It inevitably produced duplication of functions, erratic and uncoordinated planning. There was an additional danger that money would be spent not on essential administration and services, but on politics.

On prestige spending," he says in his famous book, "Not Yet Uhuru". Then, Jaramogi believed in a unitary system of Government and viewed "majimbo" as a tool of the colonial settlers out to protect their property and balkanise the country along regions and tribal communities.

The scheme spearheaded by Jaramogi, also minister for Home Affairs in charge of the provincial administration, irked officials of opposition Kadu with former President Daniel arap Moi taking Jaramogi to court.

Coincidentally, the current drama is unfolding under the rule of Mzee Kenyatta's son, President Uhuru Kenyatta. The script and timing may be different, but the fears and concerns over dilution of devolution are the same.

In 1963, the Kenya African National Union (Kanu) Government of Mzee Kenyatta was reluctant to execute a foreign Constitution handed over to them by the colonial Government, or the
Majimbo Constitution, as it was popularly referred to.
Presently, the apparent push against devolution has been fashioned as a supremacy battle between the National Assembly and the Senate.


Same as in the current scenario where the likes of Deputy President William Ruto and allies, who campaigned against enactment of new Constitution have joined forces in Government, Kadu folded up and penetrated the Kanu Government.


Standard Digital News - Kenya : Echoes from the Jaramogi Oginga Odinga, Jomo Kenyatta battles on majimbo
 
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Where is the line of separation of powers btwn the two houses?

Which house is more powerful?

Can national assembly make decisions that can be vetoed by the senate?
As it is right now, the Parliament has more clout than the Senate.

The Senate cannot veto the National Assembly as it is a 'regional/county government.'
 
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Is Kenya heading back to 1964?



Gibson Kamau Kuria

When Senator Murkomen stated that there is a conspiracy to cripple the Senate and have it wound up, he probably used an understatement. Probably, there is a plan to return Kenya to the constitutional order which obtained between 1960s and 1991.


J. H. Proctor Jr., in an article titled ‘The Role of Senate in the Kenyan Political System' observed that ‘a little more than a month after the meeting of the Senate on 7th June, 1963, an Opposition Member of Parliament voiced the suspicion that some Ministers had a negative attitude towards that House and that there was a rumour circulating that the Senate might be washed out'. He further says that in 1964, the Leader of Government Business acknowledged that there had been wide speculation as to whether the Senate should be scrapped.

One hopes that what Senator Murkomen said, will not prove prophetic. If it does, Kenya may be commencing a cycle of constitutional amendments which commenced in 1964 and ended in 1988. By that time, among other organs, the Police Service Commission and the Senate had been abolished.

The country was a one – party State in which the Attorney General, the Judiciary and Auditor General had lost their independence. Rule of law and constitutionalism had been greatly undermined, if not, virtually banished. The Members of Parliament have made it clear, in the course of their debates, that they consider their House to be the Superior House.

That notion is now embodied in the Bill which was assented to by the President on 10th June, 2013. One hastens to add that according to his statement, the President did not assent it because he supported its principle but rather that, he feared that there would be a government shut down if no money was approved by government before 30th June, 2013.

When Bill Clinton was the President and Professor Gingrich was the Speaker of the Lower House or which is also known as the House of Representatives, the government shut down for a few days because of lack of funds. No doubt, that was the consideration of the President.

There are some members of the National Assembly who would like the country to return to the one – party era which was banished by the referendum of 4th August, 2010 which brought in the new Constitution. Honourable Mithika's motion to nullify the Legal Notice which communicated the new salaries of MPs is based on an outdated notion of supremacy of the Parliament.

That motion disregarded the powers of the Salaries and Remuneration Commission under section 231 of the Constitution to determine the salaries of the Members of Parliament. Similarly, the disregard of the views of the Senate on the Division of Revenue Bill is based on the same outdated notion. Before 4th August, 2010, our Constitution established a single chamber Parliament and a unitary government. It had no devolved government, the one established by the 1963 Constitution having been abolished in 1965 through a constitutional amendment. If the devolved government is killed at birth, we shall return to the unitary or centralised government.

In 1966, the Senate, the second chamber of Parliament under the 1963 Constitution, was abolished through a constitutional amendment. Honourable Murkomen was hinting at this possibility or plan.

Recently, Honourable Irungu Kang'atta, the MP for Kiharu, informed the country that he will be bringing a Constitutional Amendment bill through which he will start a process of abolishing the Senate. Even if he tables such a Bill and it is passed, by virtue of Article 265 of the Constitution, it will require a referendum to become law because it is a Bill touching on "the Supremacy of the Constitution, the Sovereignty of the people, the function of Parliament, objects, principals and structure of devolved government".

The 1966 abolition of the Senate was part of a bigger project of dismantling the constitutional order which was established by the 1963 Constitution. That project was discussed by former Attorney General, Mr. C. N. Njonjo in an article titled, ‘Recent Constitutional Changes in Kenya' which he published in the 1965 Issue of the East Africa Law Journal.

To achieve that goal, the Parliament then used the very notion which is being touted today by the National Assembly, purportedly derived from the British Constitution. According to that notion, the British Parliament has the power to make whatever constitutional changes it desires. In practice, however, that does not happen. From time to time, the British government organises for referenda on issues of fundamental concern to the British people. It has been announced that a referendum will be held to decide if Britain should remain in the European Union.

The notion used in Kenya is opposed to the principle in a democracy of a limited government. That absolute power is reserved to the people who can replace one Constitution with another. As long ago as 1970, in Ukunda v R, (1970) EA 453, a constitutional court held that in Kenya, we have the supremacy of the Constitution and not that of Parliament or one organ of government.

The Constitution is the expression of the will of the people. The supremacy of people is expressed in the Pre – amble of the Constitution which, inter alia, states that,
: "We, people of Kenya, …….., adopt, enact and give this Constitution to ourselves and our future generations."

The Constitution belongs to the present and future generations – not to either of the two chambers of the current Parliament.

As the two – chamber Parliament of 1964 found cumbersome the exercise of the power to amend the Constitution which required it to get the support of 75% of all Members of the National Assembly for some provisions and 90% support of all the members of the Senate for the same provisions, it persuaded the two Houses to accept an amendment whereby any amendment to the Constitution would require the support of only 65% of all the members of either House. Once this amendment was passed, the die was cast. The following Constitutional amendments were passed, thereafter:
a. to merge, in 1964, the Offices of the Prime Minister with that of Head of State and called the New Office ‘The President' who wielded more power than Presidents wield in democracies; and abolished the Police Service Commissions;
b. in 1965, to abolish the Devolved Government then known as Regionalism;
c. in 1966, to abolish the Senate;
d. in 1982, to abolish multi – partyism;
e. in 1987, to abolish the independence of the Attorney General;
f. in 1988, to abolish the independence of the Judiciary and the Auditor and Controller General.

It is the undemocratic philosophy embodied in the notion of Supremacy of Parliament being used now which caused the very suffering which led to the call for the rewriting of the Constitution. Kenyans are asking, for how long they are going to continue rewriting their Constitutions?

Conclusion

Two sad things have emerged from the debates on the salaries of MPs and the Division of Revenue Bill. The first one is that the National Assembly does not have the legal advisors it ought to have. The second thing is that the members of the National Assembly do not understand that what we have in Kenya now is the supremacy of the Constitution or People and not that of either the National Assembly or the Senate.

Kenyans should now demand that the Division of Revenue Act be repealed and that they be given better services by their Members of Parliament.

Gibson Kamau Kuria is an Advocate and Senior Counsel

Capital Blog » Is Kenya heading back to 1964?
Ukiashaingia kwenye huo Uhanithi wa "democracy" hautoki tena, sasa hao Wakenya cha moto watakiona, Mfumo wetu tu ndio Mzuri kwa Nchi maskini za Kiafrika, hayo mambo ya Democracy ni ya Wazungu hata wao pia hiyo democracy inawasumbua lkn wao wameshaendelea!

 
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Ukiashaingia kwenye huo Uhanithi wa "democracy" hautoki tena, sasa hao Wakenya cha moto watakiona, Mfumo wetu tu ndio Mzuri kwa Nchi maskini za Kiafrika, hayo mambo ya Democracy ni ya Wazungu hata wao pia hiyo democracy inawasumbua lkn wao wameshaendelea!

Wewe ndio umeongea, nilishasema kwa nchi zetu masikini za Afrika hatuhitaji demokrasia, bado sana, hatuna maendeleo tunawezaje kuhubiri demokrasia? wazungu weneywe wamefika hapo sio kwa demokrasia ila wanataka sisi tuwe na demokrasia wakati wanajua kabisa hatutafika popote.
 
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Wangechagua RAO hayo yasingekuwepo pole kwa Prof.Kindiki na msomi Murkomen,hiyo ndio serikali yenyu ya Jubilee,na kumbukeni mnaopinga serikali ya Jubilee mkiwa upande wa Jubilee mtakiona cha mtema kuni,muulizeni bingwa wa kucheza na kambako(bull) Bonny Khalwale,hiyo ndio faida ya kufuata mambo bila kufikiri eti sababu ni mla mbuzi mwenzetu na ni mmoja wetu.
We can't be sure either that Raila would not have done the same. People just change when they ascend to that high office. I think it is all about wielding power.
 
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Wewe ndio umeongea, nilishasema kwa nchi zetu masikini za Afrika hatuhitaji demokrasia, bado sana, hatuna maendeleo tunawezaje kuhubiri demokrasia? wazungu weneywe wamefika hapo sio kwa demokrasia ila wanataka sisi tuwe na demokrasia wakati wanajua kabisa hatutafika popote.
Watu wengi wasichokielewa ni kwamba Nchi zote za Ulaya hazijajengwa na Demokrasia, zilijengwa na Wafalme ambao hawakufwata mfumo wa kidemokrasia, hata Nchi za Asia kama Japan na ambazo zimeendelea hivi karibuni pia hawakufwata huu mfumo kwa mfano Korea Kusini, Taiwan, Singapore, na sasa China lkn sisi watu wetu wengi hata kuandika neno Demokrasia hawawezi achilia mbali kuelewa maana yake ndio wanahubiriwa kuhusu Demokrasia kila siku!

 
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Watu wengi wasichokielewa ni kwamba Nchi zote za Ulaya hazijajengwa na Demokrasia, zilijengwa na Wafalme ambao hawakufwata mfumo wa kidemokrasia, hata Nchi za Asia kama Japan na ambazo zimeendelea hivi karibuni pia hawakufwata huu mfumo kwa mfano Korea Kusini, Taiwan, Singapore, na sasa China lkn sisi watu wetu wengi hata kuandika neno Demokrasia hawawezi achilia mbali kuelewa maana yake ndio wanahubiriwa kuhusu Demokrasia kila siku!

Kweli kabisa, look at the likes of China. The west wants to force us to be where they are without bothering that it took them quite a while to get there. I wonder why the countries in the Eastern block do not insist on this monster called democracy.
 
The Monk

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The Monk

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Kweli kabisa, look at the likes of China. The west wants to force us to be where they are without bothering that it took them quite a while to get there. I wonder why the countries in the Eastern block do not insist on this monster called democracy.
Yaani inashangaza sana, tunataka tuwe kama China na tunawaomba msaada lakini hatutaki kujifunza wamefikaje hapo. Mambo ya gavana, katiba mpya sijui serikali tatu... yana umuhimu wake lakini hayatatutoa kwenye changamoto zetu. Nisiongee sana ntachakachua thread!

Be blessed
 
Kijakazi

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Kijakazi

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Kweli kabisa, look at the likes of China. The west wants to force us to be where they are without bothering that it took them quite a while to get there. I wonder why the countries in the Eastern block do not insist on this monster called democracy.
The west knows what it wants, ndio maana wana insist tufwate Democracy so that we spend all our arguing about the Senate, Bunge and the stupid Katiba thing, like in TZ now tunapoteza muda mwingi kubishania jina la Tanzania na Tanganyika while they taking our resources, they could not do that in Irak thats why they killed Sadam Husein, they could nt do that in Libya that's why they killed Gadaffi and now they imposed democracy na kuanza kuchukua Mafuta ya Irak na Libya!
 
Kabaridi

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Kabaridi

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Kweli kabisa, look at the likes of China. The west wants to force us to be where they are without bothering that it took them quite a while to get there. I wonder why the countries in the Eastern block do not insist on this monster called democracy.
China is a dictatorship! or what name can we give it..china dictatorship has graduated to a very sosphisticated level. Dicatorships cannot guarantee to hear all voices. In china and the eastern blocs as we speak there are still human rights violations being done..as a country we have travelled miles reach the promised land.
And given the fact it is an african country Kenya, it still buffles critics how a bellittled country can try to atain self sufficiency without bowing and bootlicking the west to beg for assistance.
 
Koborer

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Koborer

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China is a dictatorship! or what name can we give it..china dictatorship has graduated to a very sosphisticated level. Dicatorships cannot guarantee to hear all voices. In china and the eastern blocs as we speak there are still human rights violations being done..as a country we have travelled miles reach the promised land.
And given the fact it is an african country Kenya, it still buffles critics how a bellittled country can try to atain self sufficiency without bowing and bootlicking the west to beg for assistance.
Well, but can't we be allowed to practice the sort of democracy that best suits us as Africans? Who said that the western form of democracy is necessarily the best? Look at what it is doing to many African nations, conflict after conflict. In my view, African democracy should be a blend between communism and capitalism, the kind of thing practiced by our forefathers. This western thing is just too strange for us and breeds selfishness.
 
Kabaridi

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Kabaridi

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Well, but can't we be allowed to practice the sort of democracy that best suits us as Africans? Who said that the western form of democracy is necessarily the best? Look at what it is doing to many African nations, conflict after conflict. In my view, African democracy should be a blend between communism and capitalism, the kind of thing practiced by our forefathers. This western thing is just too strange for us and breeds selfishness.
hehe

First, there is nothing wrong with western democracy. Infact, it is good when there is a situation everyone can speak-out without fear. then there is no way ills committed by mankind can go unnoticed or unchallenged. This aspect is good for whisleblowers because they do not have to run around the globe in fear of paying through their dear life. though the irony; there is only ideological hypocracy that is killing the democracy. western democracy is viewed as a bacon of hope where, even former african genocide ochestrators escape justice and seek refuge.

there have been plenty of musings on partriachy and capitalism, and not everyone is able to accomodate them, but on the senate, we should ask ourselves what benefit it does offer. there was this thought that the old system where a strong centralized governement was the root of all our problems as a nation, but it is being proved wrong at every inch of devolution. should we expect worse problems than those encountered during the old system, to take place depending on the type of people being elected into office. You remember mzee kenyatta when wanted to achieve a unity of the people of kenya but was easily castigated by allegations of nepotism, tribalism from oppostion. Nothing seemed to have changed 50 years down the line....

when one clearly traces the roots of watergate-scandal in the us, it emerges that they sprung up from such challenges of devolution, being the components that led to the fateful demise of John kennedy!

...Why are governeors fighting to inflate the powers of the senate? are they keen to create a stone-walling device in the name of the 'senate' that effectively blocks an 'heavy hand' of the executive or judicial systems from challenging issues of corruption at the county. Judicial mechanisms have shown vulnerabilty, from the pressure and whims of mass-physchology targetting them from populists. This is another challenge our judicial systems are facing...how strong or autonomous are they??
 

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