Si kweli,
While its not our intent to compare TZ and Kenya directly there are a load of things that Kenya is behind TZ,and reverse is true for Kenya.i can attribute Kenya's successful sports performances,better PR and a more open economy.
While i can also counter and credit Tanzania for out of this world Stability,to die for cultural diversity,high GDP growth rates, high FDI inflow rates, low poverty rates(28%, kenya has 46%),unwavering and abundant food(refer to our food help to Kenya just recently),strongest Tourism in EA( in numbers,moneys and high quality locations like the legendary Serengeti,the amazing Zanzibar, the super large Selous and my personal favorite Katavi national Park).
On top of That for the past 8-10 years Tanzania Economy has been performing better than Kenya's (isn't it surprising a nation you call lazy out perform you for 10 consecutive years?)
When it comes to investment, TIC has done a better job at attraction investments than any country in EA,how is Kenya Better in this regard?
Sasa madini ya TZ yanawawashia nini wakenya?even US sits one of the biggest gas reserves and it's still hydrocarbons abroad, TZ will extract when it sees fit, reason you have PSA's pending review,although some corrupt politicians are trying to get in a way.Don't reminisce about Madini ya Tanzania,Mmepewa Ardhi na Mungu mkagawa 50% of arable land to 1 family, kama sio utindio wa akili ni nini?mshukuru hata hayo madini mlinyimwa, kwani wangegawana kina Kenyatta,nyie mngeendelea kugawana chang'aa.
I wouldn't call Kenyan Human resource better than TZ, based on the few liars we have to discredit every day here in JF, you have done a good job of filling the jobs of potters,kindergatten teachers and some low paying jobs in TZ.for that we are forever grateful.
Biashara, you need to visit KKOO then go back to that wannabe soko of yours to get a gist of how far left behind Kenyans are.Tanzania is to go country for all landlocked countries in Eastern and central Africa.if you go to KKOO you would be amazed at the volume of trade conducted by Zambians,Congolese, Malawians,Burundese,Rwandese and Zimbabweans.Then go to Tunduma and see how active that border is,then come back here and yap about Kenya being ahead of TZ in trade.
Oh, there is a place Kenya is also doing better than us, it managed to elect a "suspected criminal" into power,When you see recent data of rising economies TZ is measured against Angola, Ghana etc, you know that elusive club of nations with higher than 7% GDP growth. that's our yardstick to stay in that club for as long as we can,and based on 5-10 years projections we can only go higher from the current 7.5% GDP growth rates,next year the projections are around 7.9%
please note the only place you would ever see TZ is compared to Kenya is when a Kenyan brings it up,and if this was in Kenyan side, we could probably ignore it and leave you guys to spread your nonsense in your jelousy echo chamber . you wanted attention to TZ posters so decided to bring it to international sub-forum.
go to "Jukwaa la Siasa" you will hardly see anyone discuss anything about Kenya, because NO BODY gives a F there.
Its funny that a Kenyan has to find a Tanzanian website starts to post about Kenya-Tanzania, then when Tanzanians reply he jumps to conclussion Tanzaians are obsessed with Kenya.NO body here came to your website to post misinformation each and every passing day.We keep it to ourselves and majority dont give a hoot whats going on in Kenya(gotta love that inner communicsm in TZs).
If Tanzanians were obsessed about kenya you would see them posting in your forums, you would see them creating their subsections.am not aware of any of those Kenyan Forums personally,with Tanzanians posting about kenya at a rate you guys do here in JF.
No need for condenscending posts mkuu. tunajadiliana tu so hakuna haja ya comment ndefu hivi ya kubeza wenzako. the intention of my post was just to show that there is no need for comparing Kenya and Tz, coz you guys deserve better judging from your track record.. but the problem is that you are always mark timing, I just wanted to know why. I know your education system is shity but besides that, what might be the problem lad?
Shity incomparison to what??
Alright, i will inform Obbo about this mistake. Lol!There is a need... your (I guess you r Obbo) article talks about a subset while a heading is a set... why don't you be specific to the subset so as to be precise. You know what... the heading gives a lot of expections to the readers and digesters.... unfortunately the articles has no pre stated a cut off point (scope). I think referees have to be keen on that..
No need for condenscending posts mkuu. tunajadiliana tu so hakuna haja ya comment ndefu hivi ya kubeza wenzako. the intention of my post was just to show that there is no need for comparing Kenya and Tz, coz you guys deserve better judging from your track record.. but the problem is that you are always mark timing, I just wanted to know why. I know your education system is shity but besides that, what might be the problem lad?
Talk is cheap bro lakini kudos for trying igawaje mengi you posted is like a feel good story.
Smatta is right; it is a painful fact that Tanzanians ought to accept no matter what. There is no reason for Tanzania to be second to any other country in the region except for our own upumbavu. We must kick out CHAMA and mafisadi and start afresh. Too much complacency based on false stability stories do not help us in any way. We have many stupid heads in our political system coupled with a massive population of illiterates in rural areas which together do not serve Tanzania. We need a forceful figure to break this terrible link even if that individual turns out to be a dicator. It is easy to fight against a forceful dictator than fighting a silent dictator like the current CHAMA.
Mkuu Kichuguu, wewe ni mkongwe tofauti na hawa vijana wa 70s and 80s.
in red there is a reason
Hivi kweli kuna siri yoyote kuhusu kwa nini TZ iko nyuma ya Kenya Kiuchumi?Kenya walipigana vita ya kagera?kenya walisaidi mamilioni ya waafrika kupata uhuru?Kenya walipingana na uchumi mkubwa Africa wa SA wakati wa Aparthreid?Kenya walipingana na Western countries wakati wa Cold war? Hizi ndio sababu kuu za TZ kuwa Nyuma.And if i were in Nyerere's shoes and asked to re-do it i would redo everything just the same, nothing beats dignity,unity and peace.for TZ this was like an investment for all those 30 years of hardship, and we are ripping our rewards now while others are infighting.
Je ukiondoa figures ambazo ziko static GDP size na existing economic infrastructures, TZ ime-perform vipi toka ilipoanza reforms?
Obvious answer is we have done better than Kenya in many regards, our GDP is among the fastest in the world, our FDI inflows are among the biggest in Africa. And we have many Multi-billion dollar projects ongoing.
All that with a government as incompetent as CCM's.
We could do more, but regardless of who is in power in TZ, our state of things is much better than what Kenya is at the moment, and that is not even with regards to comparison.
Back to your suggestion of kicking Mafisadi out, that is a dream of every Tanzanian.
May be its just me, but i have visited Kenya several times over the years,and i have found nothing world beating apart from its majestically superior athletics team. So my comment was based on the fact that, although Kenya is slightly better ahead of TZ in many areas, we are all still in the circle of poverty, and there is no need for chest beating.
In TZ we have a saying "kupanga ni Kuchagua". After independence most of the focus from our policies were based on cohesiveness and self reliance.which are things we do quite well, we have never been good capitalists,its something that is new to TZ,just recently catching up.Kenya was virtually un-hindered to develop, while Nyerere had to fight the west for a very good part of his presidency.This explains a legs up that Kenya has.We are all old enough to remember what it was like during the cold war, actually am surprised the gap with Kenya is this small given all the heads up Kenya had to dominate the EA economy. for 30+ years Tanzania's only source of reasonable economic benefits was USSR and China, which were themselves in a state of disarray, even worse we had to fight a war that bankrupted us and we had to feed and mobilize armies and freedom fighters from half a dozen sub-saharan countries,all that while fighting apartheid in SA by boycotting their products and economics ties,while Kenya was supporting it,had no war to fight,had no freedom fighters to assist.so may be the question can be reversed?what might have been the problem with Kenya that you have failed to dominate EA Economy given all the help you had?
As with what is going on in TZ, i am probably one of the biggest critic of JK government, I for one believes TZ was duped in 2005 elections. JK has underperformed given the resources at his disposal and the state of economy he inherited. we should probably have had GDP growth rate of 10-15% in the past 10 6-7 years had we a smarter president.
The problem of education is also directly linked to the kind of president we have,imagine the chap elected a lad who couldn't tell how Tanzania was formed 50 years go.
TZ education has gradually become bad because of its failure to adopt to changes and several missteps.Before i came to Europe i was educated in TZ and the only time i really had to start worrying about things getting difficult was in grad school.i literally rehearsed 4 years of Engineering school, in the 2 years of A-levels.
But in the past 10-15 years god knows what they are doing with education in TZ, this itself is a topic deserving multiple threads.
So if TZ is to deserve better it's not in comparison to Kenya or any other Nation, but rather in relation to what could have been of this great nation should we pick the right candidate to rule us, but its obvious "democracy" will never give us that.as only crooks gets to raise to the top.
that was meant to be sarcastic, jesus guys relax a little and get off your high horses. We all know that TZ is the promised land, that's why I've leaved live here for ages.
Then jibu swali langu, in comparison to what?? Unatumia vigezo gani kusema elimu ya Tanzania ni shity??
Ndiyo maana nilisema uko right, lakini hata hivyo miaka 30 baada ya vita zote tulizojihusisha nazo bado sioni mantiki ya kutumia vigezo kama hivyo kujudge maendeleo yetu ya leo. Vita yetu ya mwisho ilikuwa ni ya ukombozi wa Zimbabwe ambao walipata uhuru mwaka 1980, na vita ya uganda tuliimaliza mwaka 1979; hapo kati kati kuna nchi zilizopigana wenyewe kwa wenyewe kama Rwanda na Kenya ambao walichinjana majuzi tu, lakini unaona kuwa mambo yao yanakwenda vizuri ama sawa na sisi au wanatuzidi wakati sisi ndio tulitakiwa tuwe tunawazidi tena kwa mbali sana. Najua kuwa kweli kuna mambo mazuri yanayotokea Tanzania ila ni kwa kiwango kdiogo kuliko fair share yetu kulinganisha na ukubwa wa nchi pamoja na raslimali zetu.
(1) Elimu yetu imekuwa ni kichekesho kabisa kiasi kuwa hata tunapokuwa na wawezezajia wanalazimika kutafuta wafanya kazi kutoke Kenya. Hilo ni tatizo la mfumo wetu leo wala halitokani na historia ya tulikotoka, kwani zamani hizo tulikuwa na mfumo wa elimu imara sana.
(2) Huduma zetu za afya ni kichekesho kikubwa sana. Kukitokea tatizo tunakimbilia India, Afrika ya Kusini au Nairobi. Viongozi wetu wanakwenda kutibiwa nje, hata kufanyiwa medical check up tu. Sijawahi kusikia rais wa Kenya akienda kufanyiwa medical check up nje ya nchi.
Barabara za TZ na EA nyingi zimejengwa kwa kiwango si cha kuridhisha, refer to Kilwa road kurudiwa tena kujengwa, au madudu ya Thika road kugeuka Mto, hapa hakuna wa kumcheka mwenzake. Lufthansa and the likes kutua Nairobi instead of Dar ni cost cutting, sio kosa letu, Nairobi has always been a Hub,and as Airlines operates in Hub mode, it didn't make sense with the dar route, But since Turkish Airlines,Emirates and Qatar are now flying daily to Dar,and this will only grwo as TZ is becoming an oil and has Hub, as these people go where the money goes.(3) Infrastructure zetu ni hovyo hovyo tu; tunajenga barabara kwa gharama kubwa sana lakini tunapata substandard products ambazo huanza kuvunjika katika muda wa mwaka mmoja kutokana na mfumo mbovu wa uongozi wetu ambao huruhusu rushwa katika mikataba. Uwanja wa ndege wa JKNIA ulijengwa na kampuni ya kifaransa Coogees miaka ya 1970 na ule wa KIA ulijengwa pia miaka hiyo hiyo ya sabini, wakati tukiwa bado tuna vita ya ukombozi. Baada ya hapo kwa karibu miaka arobaini hakuna jingine lililowahi kufanyika kuhusu viwanja vyetu badala yake tumekuwa tunaviuza hovyo hovyo kama vile hatuna akili. Kenya wameweza kujenga na kupanua viwanja vyao mara nyingi sana hadi ikafikia ndege nyingi za kimataifa zikaacha kutua Dar kabisa: Nakumbuka kuwa Sabena, Lufthansa, Alitalia, Air France na British Airways zilishakataa kutua Dar, zinaishia Nairobi tu.
I agree, but so is Kenyan Economy, this shouldn't be a stick to beat TZ with regards to Kenya,Tanzanian's living below poverty line are just 28% while kenyan's have 45%.Kenya is a much more divided country income wise.(4) Hata kama ni kweli kuwa uchumi wa Tanzania unakua kwa kasi sana, ni lazima tukubali kuwa uchumi huo hauwanufaishi watanzania walio wengi. Ni uchumi wa Tanzania kwa faida ya watu wa nje iwapo makampuni yote makubwa ni ya nje na yameajiri watu wa nje tu wakati hawalipi kodi.
(5) Ni kweli kuwa kuna mambo mengi ambayo ama tunalingana na Kenya au tunawazidi, lakini katika mcho ya kimataifa ni dhahiri kuwa Kenya wanatuzidi sana. Angalia kitu kidogo kuwa ATC imekufa kabisa na imekuwa inakodi ndege mbovu tena kutokea huko huko huko Kenya wakati Kenya Airways yenyewe inanunua dreamliners mpya kabisa kutoka kiwandani Seattle. Kwa eneo lote la Afrika ya Msharaiki, ni Tanzania tu ambao hatuna shirika letu la ndege; hata Rwanda iliyofufuka miaka michache iliyopita baada ya kuchinjana kama wanyama nao wana Dreamliner na ndege nyingi tena sa kisasa kuliko Tanzania.
My point exactly, I dont honestly understand why you are going around in circles and we are supporting the same thing. TZ shouldn't be compared to the likes of Kenya lol. you are the future of Africa, especially with your policies on mining.. the future is yours
Well, this sounds like an exaggeration. I am yet to see an African country that is performing above her level!Kimweri, it seems that you fully agree that Tanzania is not performing at the level it should be, while Kenya is doing at and above its level...
Kimweri, it seems that you fully agree that Tanzania is not performing at the level it should be, while Kenya is doing at and above its level. The defense that you have outlined might be correct, but it does not eliminate the harsh reality on Tanzania's poor performance.
Yes and NO.
Tanzania is performing below the level it should, and Kenya is outperforming TZ in the PR sector, which makes everything you hear about them rosy, while reality is not. This is a country where falks are eager to lie for many years that they are EA biggest investors while their FDI outflows are lingering around 0.0% of their GDP at miniscule $6M usd in 2013,it's the same country accused by its own people of cooking data to make it look good (refer to tourism data row).
As i Have said many times before, TZ performance is well below what it can achieve,but tat the moment we are leaps and bounds ahead of Kenya performance wise. I could do a Viva if i were to go down each and every indicator in UNCTAD report 2013 and world bank data for the past 5 years.
Tragedy of the Commons
May be we differ in our time frames. You are looking at the future while I look at the past and the present. I believe that the past is a stronger indicator for the future unless there are signficant changes in the process. Tanzanite mining started in the 90s all going to one South African company, gold mining also started in the 90s all going to one Canadian company and one Ghanaian company. All of these mining activities brought nothing rather than beefing up Swiss and Jersey accounts. We all know how the gas extraction process is going on; there is no better teacher in these matters than the past experience.
Unataka nani akuamini? Na kama unataka tukuamini tafadhali weka uthibitisho kwamba hakuna kitu kinaingia. Hebu tuanze hapo kwanza!Thanks... huyu Kimweri haelewi,akiona GDP 7.5% its all good,anasahau gold mining zina xport billions ambazo treasury hakuna kitu kinaingia ,gas will be the same and the worst rationing will never end,mafisadi wanamaliza nchi.