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Wafuasi wa chadema na ccm wanafanana kila kitu!

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by The Analyst, Mar 15, 2011.

  1. The Analyst

    The Analyst JF-Expert Member

    #1
    Mar 15, 2011
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    Katika kusoma threads nyingi za Jukwaa la Siasa nimegundua tabia za wafuasi wa vyama hivi hasimu zinafanana sana, hasa ktk uhafidhina wao. Kuna wafuasi wa CCM ambao daima hawaoni chochote cha msingi katika thread yoyote inayojaribu kukusoa serikali yao ama kupinga ufisadi wao. Cha ajabu eti hata baadhi ya wafuasi wa CDM nao hawataki kuambiwa chochote kuhusu mambo yasiyokuwa mazuri katika upande wao. Wanataka kusifiwa na kuungwa mkono tu, muda wote pasipo kutafakari hoja za msingi japo zinatoka kwa mahasimu wao.

    Picha ninayoipata hapa ni kwamba CDM watakapokuwa madarakani itakuwa vigumu sana kuwakosoa kwa kuwa nao wata-behave kama CCM tu.

    Ingetokea tukapata kiongozi mmoja anayeipenda nchi kama nilivyo mimi ili awe dikteta (kwa mtazamo wa wana-demokrasia) lakini atumie muda mwingi atakaong'ang'ania madarakani kuijenga nchi ili walau tuweze kuwafikia wenzetu waliopiga hatua katika maendeleo.

    Hizi chaguzi za kuiga sometimes ndo zinatufikisha hapa. JK alipendwa sana lakini uwezo wake wa kuongoza 0% ya matarajio. Nani anajua Mbowe (kama atataka na kupata) atakuwa vipi akiingia madarakani?

    Wachina wamekwepa mtego huu wa Magharibi na sasa mambo yao super!

    Yote haya yananitoka kwa kuwa nimegundua; wafuasi wa vyama hivi ni kama mapacha. Tofauti yao ni ndogo tu, kwamba mmoja anataka madaraka ambayo mwenzake anaogopa kuyapoteza.
     
  2. S

    SAM wa KILUNGU Member

    #2
    Mar 15, 2011
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    I Support your idea of dictatorship...naona wa tz tunazidisha maneno neno na ujuaji usio ambatana na vitendo...we need a person like mao tsung,msollin ,hiltler etc
     
  3. The Analyst

    The Analyst JF-Expert Member

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    Nilitaka kutoa mfano wa Hitler nikahisi watu watadhani napendelea mauaji ya minorities ama yeye. Maana baadhi wanakumbuka mauaji ya wayahudi tu. Mafanikio mengine hawayaoni. Mfano ingekuwa hapa kwetu basi wahanga wa mtu wa aina hiyo wangekuwa kama Manji, RA, Jeetu Patel nk. Naamini katika Dikteta mng'ang'ania madaraka lakini anayependa kuona nchi yake inafanikiwa kiuchumi, kijamii na kiteknolojia kama alivyofanya Hitler kule ujerumani.
    Demokrasia kwa maana ya uchaguzi huru na wa vyama vingi kimsingi haina tija kwa nchi kama Tz kwa kuwa bado raia wetu wanahongwa kilo ya chumvi na doti ya kanga kumchagua fisadi na kisha kumshangilia hata pale anapowafilisi taifa zima.
     
  4. Filipo

    Filipo JF-Expert Member

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    Mar 15, 2011
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    Hatufanani hata kwa kulazimisha! Wafuasi wa ccm wapuuzi. Wanahongwa kumpa credit kiongozi huku wao wanadhalilika. Sisi (wa CDM) hatufanyi ujinga huo. Wafuasi wa ccm hawana uchungu na hii nchi. Ndio maana wanahongwa t-shirt na kofia kwenda kwenye mikutano, kiongozi wao aonekane anapendwa huku anaongea pumba! Tofauti ni nyingi mno. Na ninavyoona mimi ni kwamba, we are neither similar nor equal!
     
  5. The Analyst

    The Analyst JF-Expert Member

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    Tofauti unayoizungumzia itaonekana wazi kama wana-CDM mtaanza kuchambua hoja zinazotolewa na mahasimu wenu kwa umakini unaostahili na si kubeza kila hoja inayogusa kasoro zenu. Bora ningepata nafasi ya kuingia madarakani na kuwa rais wa nchi hii ili nitumie nafasi hiyo kukusanya mawazo ya wataalamu na wenye hekima ili kuiondoa nchi yetu na aibu hii ya umasikini.
     
  6. mbogo31

    mbogo31 JF-Expert Member

    #6
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    Toa Mfano wa Hoja amabazo wanachadema wamechangia kwa jazba walipoambiwa mapungufu yao!?
     
  7. M

    MsandoAlberto JF-Expert Member

    #7
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    I would have agreed with you except for the following;

    1. You seem to be drawing a conclusion based on the followers present in JF.

    2. Your conclusion generalizes the followers in JF.

    3. Your conclusion is based on whom you have called followers and not CDM members. In any social grouping there are followers and these will do and say anything to support what they are following. It is for the one who is followed to lead the way and always make sure that he doesnt loose his bearings because of the noise and voices made behind by the followers. That is leadership.

    4. Your mention of Mh. Mbowe (MP) makes him a follower rather than a leader. Ask yourself, has he proven himself a hard neck? Does he not accept criticism? And may be, does Dr. Slaa accept criticism? Would they have come this far if they never accepted criticism?

    At least now you should be able to see the diffference. I am a CDM member not a follower. Lets talk brother.
     
  8. LordJustice1

    LordJustice1 JF-Expert Member

    #8
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    Wafuasi wa cdm wamekuwa wakiwapinga viongozi wao (eg Zitto, Shibuda, nk)!
    Tatizo kuu la ccm ni kukosa uchungu na nchi hii! Wamekuwa wakijinadi juu ya "utulivu na amani" huku wakipandikiza chokochoko zinazopelekea kuvuruga amani kisha hukimbilia majukwaani kudai kwamba ni cdm ndio wanaovunja amani! Kiukweli CCM haina jipya, it is dying slowly!
     
  9. Najijua

    Najijua JF-Expert Member

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    Naona umetumwa wewe na kutaka kupotossha watu, au mwenzetu ni wale wa CCM 'B'?????????????
     
  10. Kurunzi

    Kurunzi JF-Expert Member

    #10
    Mar 15, 2011
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    Habari yako imekaa ki assuption zaidi kwani nilitegemea as Analyst ungeonyesha mambo ya msingi wanachadema hawataki kukosolewa. Pili huwezi kuchukulia wanaotoa hoja hapa JF ndiyo kigezo kuwa wanachadema au ccm wote tanzania nzima wapo hivyo Jf ina member elf 20 tena vyama tofauti sasa ikiwa umetumia kigezo cha hapa jf tu namashaka na analyst yako.
    Tatu tatizo si mfumo wa kipindi cha kuingia madarakani na kutoka ndiyo kinafanya tusipate maendeleo ikiwa wewe hukuona udhaifu wa JK awali basi kuna wale waliouona na walisema bayana kuwa JK hana sifa ya kuongoza zaidi ya kuuza sura kwani hakuwa cha kujivunia alipokuwa waziri, pia kumbuka mabutu pamoja na kuwa alikuwa dikteta lakini hakuna cha maana alicho kifanya kwa hiyo hoja yako ni dhaifu.
     
  11. The Analyst

    The Analyst JF-Expert Member

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    I am not so good at using the language you have chosen but I'll do my best to clarify my point.
    As you noticed, my problem was with followers, not Great Leaders of the Party and I have taken JF members as my sample.
    Firstly, I respect these leaders especially Slaa, Mbowe, Zitto, Mnyika, Mdee, Lissu, Marando and all others I couldn't mention because, up to the time being they have done what non of the other politicians has ever done to our beloved country. So I have no problem with that, in case you misunderstood me.
    Secondly, I mentioned Mbowe(MP) as a possible future president and asked who knows for sure, if he would behave differently. My point is that; with such uncritisizable followers who would be able to critisize (by then) the president. Do you get my point now?
    Another thing I would like to bring to your attention (as a member) is about what happened when Hon. Zitto Kabwe declared his intention to contest for Chairmanship against Hon. Mbowe. To me, things were settled so undemocratically that when I came to see what this Kabwe guy has been behaving recently, acting contrally to the party almost all the time I get worried that things are not cool enough in the party I've voted for, for 2 consecutive elections.
     
  12. M

    MsandoAlberto JF-Expert Member

    #12
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    The Analyst,

    Tunaweza kutumia kiswahili pia ambacho wote tuko sawa nacho.

    Nakubaliana nawe kwa haya uliyoyasema baada hoja yangu. Kabla sijaendelea zaidi niseme kwamba tumekuwa na tabia ya kuandika vichwa vya habari vya kusisimua au vyenye uhasi (negativity) ili wengi wasome na kuchangia.

    Hii imetokea mara nyingi na imekuwa ni kawaida. Matokeo yake wale unaowaita wafuasi wanafanya kazi yao ya ufuasi. Kupinga kwa nguvu zote lolote watakaloliona au kuhisi ni baya kwa wanachofuata. Ni sawa na kugusa imani yao.

    Jaribu kuangalia tone ya waliokujibu. Inakuwa kama unagombezwa na kuonekana msaliti ingawaje umeweka wazi kwamba unaipenda Chadema na umeichagua.

    Ulipoandika mawazo yako umeyatoa kama mtu wa pembeni, sio mfuasi wala mwanachama wala mpenzi (mshabiki) wa CDM. Umeonekana sio mwenzetu. Kama si mmojawapo wa hao wote wewe ni nani? Si mwanachama, si mfuasi, si mpenzi, si shabiki wa CHADEMA. Wewe ni nani kama sio wao (CCM, CUF, NCCR etc)?

    Lazima tufike mahali tukosoe na tujikosoe. Kuna kelele zitapigwa kwamba tukosoane chamber au kwenye vikao. Ni upuuzi. Ndicho wanachofanya CCM na sisi tufanye? Hapana.

    Kama mwanachama wa CDM au kiongozi huwezi kukubali open criticism hufai kuwa kiongozi au mwanachama. Ni muda wa kufanya maamuzi magumu. Maamuzi ambayo sio desturi.

    Tutaijenga Chadema kwa kufanya hivyo. Tutakuwa na wanachama makini. Tutapata viongozi bora wa chama na nchi yetu.

    Nikirudi kuhusu hali ya chama kwa sasa na wakati Zitto alipoamua kugombea. Kuna mapungufu yalikuwepo kwa pande zote mbili husika na kwa chama. Mapungufu hayo yalifanyiwa kazi na yanaendelea kufanyiwa kazi.

    Kuna wengine waliona Zitto kugombea ni ishara kwamba Mbowe ameshindwa kazi. Kuna wengine waliona kama Mbowe ni mroho wa madaraka. Kuna wengine waliona Zitto ametumwa. Wapo walioona chama kitadumaa na kusambaratika.

    Zaidi, media ilitumika sana kukuza mambo ambayo yalikuwa ndani ya uwezo wa chama kurekebisha.

    Wakati huo mimi na wewe hatukuwepo. Tungetoa mchango wetu. Tusingetumiwa na baadhi ya watu au media.

    Tukubali pia, siasa iliachwa kwa watu fulani kwa muda mrefu. Kama sio tajiri anayetaka kuficha dhambi zake basi ni masikini anayetaka kujikwamua kimaisha. Hao ndio wamekuwa wanasiasa wetu. Hali lazima ibadilike. Tuibadilishe.

    Nakubali kukosolewa in day light. Mchana kweupe. Kama mwanachadema na kama kiongozi wa wananchi.

    Albert G. Msando - Wakili.
    Diwani Kata ya Mabogini (CHADEMA).
     
  13. The Analyst

    The Analyst JF-Expert Member

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    Nilitarajia Kurunzi uweze kusoma vizuri topic kabla hujatoa mawazo yako. Wafuasi ni watu wengi na si lazima wote kuingia katika orodha ya wanachama. Ndiyo maana hata katika michezo tuna wanachama na mashabiki katika vilabu. Mashabiki ni pamoja na wanachama lakini wapo washabiki wasiokuwa wanachama. Tatizo lingine wana JF makini kama wewe hamtaki kusoma Threads zinazoanza na Topic ndefu lakini makini na muhimu hata kama ina heading serious kiasi gani. Badala yake mko busy kujibizana na viji-topic njaa kwa kuwa tu vinawatia kero haraka kwa heading zake na ufupi wa maandishi. Rai yangu ni kwamba zikiandikwa mada makini zisomwe na kujibiwa hata kama ni ndefu. Angalia kazi nyingi za Mwanakijiji zipo makini kwa kuwa zimechambuliwa vizuri na si fupi kama mnazopenda wenzangu na mimi. Wapo wengine kadhaa wenye kazi nzuri pia.
     
  14. Mwanamageuko

    Mwanamageuko JF-Expert Member

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    teh! Teyari!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  15. The Analyst

    The Analyst JF-Expert Member

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    Imekuwa vizuri kupata nafasi ya kuwasiliana na mtu wa ndani zaidi. Sina hakika kama naweza kupata nafasi ya kutoa maoni yangu moja kwa moja ndani ya Chama lakini napenda tufanye kazi moja. Tujitahidi kuwasihi viongozi wetu hawa kuwa makini zaidi ya hivi walivyo sasa na kuondoa kabisa uwezekano wa viongozi wakubwa kutofautiana au kurumbana katika juhudi za kuikomboa nchi. Tusiporekebisha tofauti hizi ndogondogo ama tutashindwa kabisa kuikomboa nchi au tutaikomboa muda mfupi tu na kisha kuirejesha kwa mafisadi.
    Watu wengi tumejitokeza kumchagua Dk. Slaa kwa kuwa utendaji wake Bungeni na katika majukwaa umewafumbua macho wananchi wengi. Nakumbuka wakati anazungumzia kashfa kubwakubwa za ufisadi kwa mara ya kwanza baadhi ya watu walimpinga. Sikumbuki vizuri (kwa uhakika) lakini hata Samwel Sitta alikuwa mmoja wapo. Unaweza kuamini jinsi walivyogeuka (Sitta na wenzake) na kuwa wapambanaji baada ya kuona wenzao (Mafisadi wakuu) wanakula zaidi?. Inawezekana hata wao hawakujua kitu kabla Slaa na Chadema kwa ujumla hawajatangaza hadharani.
    Mh. Zitto Kabwe pia amejijengea heshima kubwa sana Bungeni na majukwaani kwa kujitahidi kuwa makini na ukakamavu wake katika kupigia kelele ufisadi mkubwa. Sote tunakumbuka alivyoyafurumua ya Buzwagi ambapo Mzee Lowasa na Karamagi walionekana moja kwa moja kuhusika japo unajua tena "sheria inatusaidia kutafuta haki lakini haituhakikishii upatikanaji wake" au siyo mkuu? Wanasema hupati haki isipokuwa kwa kile unachoweza kukithibitisha mahakamani tena kwa kutoa ushanidi usiopingika. Jamani sheria ngumu!
    Nakumbushia uzito na ufuasi wa viongozi wetu wa kitaifa kupitia mifano ya watu hawa wawili ili nijaribu kujenga hoja yangu ya msingi. Hawa watu wakiamua kukisaliti chama ujue wataondoka na watu wengi wanaoweza kupunguza nguvu yetu dhidi ya maovu ya watawala. Ninachoshauri ni kwamba ni vizuri chama kikawa na mfumo mzuri wa kuzuia viongozi wa aina hii kujichanganya na mafisadi kiasi cha kuhadaiwa kwa ahadi za kufanikiwa zaidi wakiasi chama chao na kuwatetea mafisadi.
    Sina chuki na mheshimiwa Zitto lakini nyakati fulani ananisababishia hofu kama vile RA ameshamweka sawa. Wakati wabunge wanaamua kumsusia rais na hotuba yake yeye alikwepa, vyombo vya habari vikadai haoni kwa nini ashiriki kumsusia rais aliyeisaidia Kigoma kuliko rais yeyote aliyetangulia (Nilidhani rais kwa wajibu wake na mafao anayopata, analazimika kuiendeleza nchi hasa pale palipo na tatizo zaidi. Kumbe kwa Mh. Zitto ile ilikuwa hisani ambayo ilipaswa kurejeshwa kwa namna fulani pasipo kujali chama kitaathirika vipi). Mtazamo wangu huyu jamaa ama abadilike na kuacha hii tabia ya kutu-surprise kila mara, aondoke katika chama mapema ili tuangalie namna ya kuziba mapengo atakayoyaacha au atueleze ukweli kama kuna chochote kachukua kutoka Igunga. Pia kama chama kimemkosea mahala ambapo yeye alikuwa sahihi basi na wamwombe msamaha ili akiukubali nchi irejeshewe yule Zitto wake "wa Buzwagi Issue" na si huyu wa TISS tuliyenaye hivi sasa.
    Mapambano yaliyopo mbele ya CDM ni makubwa na muhimu sana kiasi kwamba, kupotezeana muda kwa maswala ama ya tamaa tu au umaarufu hasi wa mtu mmoja ni hatari sana kwa nguvu inayohitajika katika chama.
    Nakutakeni radhi wana-Chadema wote endapo kuna mahala nitakuwa nimeeleweka vibaya. Nia yangu ni kuona nchi inakuwa na Chama imara wakati wa kuikomboa na si kumwudhi mtu. Sipendi Surprises mbaya kama ya Kiongozi kutangaza anahama chama dakika ya mwisho kabisa na kuanza kukashifu wenzake.
     
  16. Loly

    Loly JF-Expert Member

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    Mar 15, 2011
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    Nakuunga mkono ndugu yangu wewe una akaili sana Kama mimi hii nchi bila dictator haitabadilika ng'o maana mimi mwenyewe sijaona tofauti kubwa sana kati ya CDM na CCM issue yao ni moja madaraka tuu kwa mtazamo wangu bado hakijatokea chama cha kuleta mabadiliko Tanzania na wale wafuasi wa CDM wenye akili ni kwamba hawana chama tuu cha kukimbilia ndio maana ila naamini kikitokea chama chenye uchungu wa kweli na hii nchi nafikiri chadema itabakia jina tuu wadau <p>
    </p>
    <p>&nbsp;</p>
     
  17. The Son of Man

    The Son of Man JF-Expert Member

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    ukisema wanafanane KILAKITU halafu ukawatofautisha waka majina yao basi argument yako inakuwa fallacious!
     
  18. The Analyst

    The Analyst JF-Expert Member

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  19. Waberoya

    Waberoya JF-Expert Member

    #19
    Nov 23, 2011
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    aisee!
     
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