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Nyerere: The Man, The Myth and the Legend

Discussion in 'Jamii Intelligence' started by Game Theory, Oct 14, 2006.

  1. G

    Game Theory JF-Expert Member

    #1
    Oct 14, 2006
    Joined: Sep 5, 2006
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    Katika wiki mbili zilizopita naona kumekuwa na pilika mbalimbali toka serikalini pamoja na media Bongo za kumuenzi Ndugu JK Nyerere lakini pamoja na hayo still kuna sumu amabayo inapandikizwa ya kumfanya Mungu mtu amabaye hakukosea kitu..State Sponsored Propaganda. Mfano iweje leo hii kuna watu wanataka kujenga SANAMU za Mwalimu kila kona wakati yeye alikataa mamabo haya wakati wa uhai wake? Iweje kila jengo la Serikali linapewa majina ya Mwalimu huku maalim ABEID KARUME hapewi jina la haya uwanja wa mpira Mafia? yote ni kwa sababu Mwalimu hakutaka hizi sifa anazomwagiwa na hawa wanaompaka mafuta kwa mgongo wa chupa

    Zaidi ya hayo Mwalimu hakuwa imortal na alikuwa na mapungufu yake ambayo yanaendelea kutu haunt leo hii kama yafuatayo:

    1-MUUNGANO kati ya Tanganyika na bara bado una kasoro nyingi tu amabzo watawala hawataki kuyaangalia au hata kuyazungumza..vitu kama memorandum za Muungano haziko katika public domain na hii kama ilikwepo wazi tika awali basi tungejua kuwa tuna ungana nini na tukiachana tunaachana vipi after all Muungano ni contract kama ndoa amabyo ikishindaka basi mwapeana talaka tu je Mwalimu alifanya nini kuliaddress hili? najua watu watakuja na ile speech aliotoa pale Kilimanjaro hotel lakini hamuoni kama Mwalimu alilea gonjwa?

    2-UDINI Hili ni moja kati ya sensitive issues amabzo wengi wanakuwa emotional kuliaddress bila kuangalia evidence zilizowasilishwa..mfano kuwa popular belief among muslims Tanzania kuwa serikali ya Mwalimu JK iliwaweka chini strategically na matokeo yake ni kuondoka kwa religious Harmony especially kati ya Waislam na Wakatoliki sasa Mwalimu kwa kweli hili alifeli kuliaddress na matokeo yake lilikuja kuwa addressed na bwana JK, Mkapa..je mnasemaje (Please hiii sio topic ya dini bali ni je Nyerere ana mkono katika hili?

    3-UCHUMI Hili naamini halina upinzani mkubwa kwani tunajua kuwa UJAMAA na AZIMIO LA ARUSHA ni one of the biggest failures katika historia ya dunia na bahati mbaya Mwalimu alistuka too late kuwa hatukuwa tayari kuwa wajamaa in other words he tried to introduce SOCIALISM in a country its people were not prepared to be socialists

    4-MILITARY ADVENTURES-
    kila kona africa Wazalendo wa Tanzania walipoteza maisha lakini je was it worth it? Je hizi nchi tulizopigania leo hii tunafaidika na nini in terms of Uchumi na mengineyo

    5-UTAWALA Post Nyerere political leaders..wengi wao hawataki kubadilika kutokana na wakati..na wengine bado wako serikalini mpaka leo kwa kuteuliwa na si kwa ridhaa ya wananchi sasa hili linakuwa kikwazo kikubwa katika suala zima la democratic deficit NA wengi wao wako huko serikalini amabko wanafanya maamuzi mengi amabayo hayalengi national interests mfano mzuri ni mikataba ya uuzaji mashirika ya umma.Hii yote bado ni product ya mwalimu ambayo haitaki kupisha damu mpya

    6-DEMOKRASIA- Still TZ bado mwendo wetu kuelekea katika demokrasia bado ni wa kusua sua kwa sababu hatuna independednt judiciary system na wanasiasa kutojua separation of powers. Hili halikupewa kipaumbele na mwalimu tangu mwanzo ndio maana mpaka leo tuna wapinzani amabo wao wanataka kupinga kila kitu na upande wa chama tawala tuna watu ambao wanawaona wapinzani kama maadui

    7-EAST AFRICAN COMMUNITY-
    sidhani kama nahitaji kusema mengi haswa kuzingatia maoni ya wengi kuhusu Rwanda na Burundi kujiunga na EAC..In short Mwalimu hili nalo alifeli kwa kiasi kikubwa tangu mwanzo na wanasiasa waliomfuata ambao wanataka kutuingiza katika muungano kichwa kichwa bila kuangalia kama kuna consent ya wananchi hii yote ni kutaka kuweka Legacy on behalf of Mwalimu lakini ukweli ni kuwa kama ilikuwa ni kuweka legacy basi mwalimu angeweka Legacy wakati yuko madarakani na siyo kuyapa madaraja majina ya mwalimu

    8-AFRICAN UNION- Nadhani mnajua kama mwalimu na Nkuruma walitofautiana katika hili kwa sababu kambi ya mwalimu ilitaka muungano kiduchu kiduchu wakati kambi ya Nkuruma amabyo ma Pa-Africanist wengi walikuwa wanalitaka muungano amabyo ulikuwa more radical wa pamoja hivyo still kuna deficit kwa mwalimu katika hili

    9-UKABILA-
    hili nalo LIPO japo kuna propaganda kuwa hakuna lakini lipo na litaendelea kuwpo. Mfano angalia wizara nyeti zimejaaa makabila fulani fulani na hili lilikuwa likisemwa tulikuwa tunaambiwa kuwa watanzania hawana makabila na tumeunganishwa na lugha moja ..actually tulikuwa na muungano kabla ya mwalimu lakini divisions ziliongezeka baadaya kuja yeye ana hakufanya jitihada za kuliondoa hili..sisemi watu wasiwe na makabaila yao after all identity kwa Mwafrika ni muhimu lakini sasa kama ukabila unatumika kuwakandamiza watu basi nadhani hapo kuna mapungufu makubwa tu

    Mwisho ningependa kuweka wazi kuwa pamoja na mapungufu hayo niliyataja hapo juu still Mwalimu alikuwa moja kati ya watawala wachache Afrika amabo walikuwa sio wezi lakini alizungukwa na wezi, wadini, wakabila, wabinafsi na hakuweza kuliondoa hili na matokeo yake ndio vitu kama IPTL na kadhalika lakini pia ni vizuri kama kizazi kijacho pia kikajua kuwa Mwalimu ALIKUWA NI BINADAMU kama mtu mwengine na alikuwa na mapungufu mengi tu na wala sio MUNGU MTU kama wanayomfanya sasa hivi
     
  2. J

    Jizaledo Member

    #2
    Oct 17, 2006
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    DrWho,

    I see "bodi" members trying to avoid this thread. You know they wouldn't want the truth about Nyerere, his intentions and performance to be brought to the fore. Hypocrites they are. I promise I am digging more data and I will come back to this. The truth about anybody must be brought out.
     
  3. Mlalahoi

    Mlalahoi JF-Expert Member

    #3
    Oct 17, 2006
    Joined: Aug 31, 2006
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    Nyerere was a dreamer,and he died dreaming.His ideology of utopian socialism cant be separated from where our beloved country stands right now.Unfortunately,his successors are even worse than him,with the current president completely failing to utilize his popularity whose basis is hardly to imagine.

    This topic has not been ignored because of hypocrisy as suggested but as we all know Tanzanians are in so much suffering at present that they can hardly have time to look back.While it's worthwhile to focus in the past mistakes,it goes without saying that our present leaders have every avenue to rectify them,and put our country where it's supposed to be.
     
  4. k

    kidonge New Member

    #4
    Oct 17, 2006
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    There's no need for name calling,one can contribute when feels so.

    Mwalimu alikuwa mmoja wa viongozi wenye kipaji,lakini kumfanya untouchable nadhani hatujengi utamaduni mzuri kwa taifa letu.Utamaduni wa kutotofautisha critism na disrespect hautusaidia(kumbuka mapanki&Kikwete katuni).

    Mimi naona viongozi wetu wanamtumia Mwl kwa maslahi yao wenyewe rather than kumuenzi baba wa taifa.Tumeona mara nyingi wakifanya hivyo,ili mtu akipinga iwe "Mwl didn't stand for that".

    Tukitaka kufaidika na Mwl kikweli tujifunze kuwa wa wazi,alipokosea tuseme na alipofanikiwa hali kadhalika.Kukosoa mapungufu yake sio usaliti.
     
  5. Kitila Mkumbo

    Kitila Mkumbo Verified User

    #5
    Oct 17, 2006
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    Dr. WHO, you need to think carefully why people have been praising Mwalimu before leashing out your blames. I have a feeling that your blames are misplaced and are a little bit emotional! No body has ever said Nyerere was perfect or angel. All we are have been saying is that Nyerere was a selfless, patriotic and visionary leader with a specific national agenda.

    Whether his agenda worked or otherwise is debatable. The problem with our leaders today is that they are selfish and do not have any national agenda. That is why our leaders are trying to be a girlfriend of every big leader of the world. Bush and Blair on the one extreme and Gaddafi and Fidel Castro on the other. And their language ---begging.

    Whenever Mwalimu met the so called superpowers of the world he would use the opportunity to sell his ideas and vision about development.
     
  6. t

    tibwilitibwili Senior Member

    #6
    Oct 17, 2006
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    Sirikali ya Uingereza chini ta Blair wakati Mwalimu alipo fariki London alienda on Public nakusema ''Africa na Tanzania wamepoteza kiongozi mzito wa era zake''.

    Kila mmoja aliujua na anaujua uwezo wa mwalimu. Mwalimu alikuwa anaongelea Tanzania na mali za Watanzania lakini Mwinyi BM na VDG wote wanaongelea wawekezaji hadi kuwafuata na wamewema mbele matumbo yao nba kutufanyia unyama . Enzi za Mwalimu makosa yalikuwepo na yeye alisema kwamba si Malaika wa kuwa kila mahali na alikiri. Je nani tangia Mwinyi , BM na JK kakiri kwa kinywa chake ?

    Look enzi za mwalimu wenu mlikuwa vijana wadogo hapa wacha tuwaeleze. Acha chuki nk ila Nchi haikuwa na wasomi na kwa Usalama wa Nchi baadhi ya mambo yalifanywa ili kuweka sawa Nchi na sasa unasema hapa . Mwalimu angalikuwa kama Ben, ama Mwinyi na JK leo madini na wanyama wetu na mengine yangalihamia Butiama na kufa akiwa tajiri wa kutupwa.

    Lakini fika Butiana uine maisha ya Mama Maria analima. Leo kaona maisha ya Ben nama Mwingi na Sitta hata watoto wao sasa wanakuja kututawala .Jamani vijana fungueni macho acheni akili kama ile ya Ubao na kukuonyesha ****** kila mara .
     
  7. M

    Mandela Member

    #7
    Oct 17, 2006
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    Huyu Dr. Who ana yake huyu ya udini! ujahidina hapa!!


    Kuna wakati nilitoa article kuhusu maproffesor ajana na zake eti hajui kuhusu ni alichokuwa anafanya Prof. Malima!

    Nilitaja maprofessor wengi tu lakini yeye akarukia kuhusu malima, na Kapuya!

    Sasa kama hamjui Malima na Kapuya atamujua Nyerere!?

    Hatusemi kuwa Nyerere alikuwa malaika "but he did his best!
    nabii haheshimiki kwao!

    Imagine watu wanagapi walisomeshwa ndani na nje ya nchi buree!

    watu wanagapi walitibiwa buree!

    Kuwa CUF haina maana kuona 2+2=8!
    Hebu jiulize tanzania ingekuwaje kama Mkapa ndiye angekuwa raisi wa kwanza Tanzania!!?? Mwinyi!!
    Madini haya tunayoyapigia kelele yasingekuwako tena mna wala uchumi usikuwa tofauti na huu uliopo sasa hivi landa ingekuwa mbaya zaidi!!


    Eti Mkapa naye anaanza kumulaumu JK!!

    Huyu alipaswa kuwa anaongelea mahakama kama Chiluba!

    Ebu jiulize kama serkali yetu kwa sasa inakataa kuosemesha wanafunzi chuo kikuu tena 1200 tuuu!! na wakati kila sikua tunachimaba madini!

    Je wakati huo wa amamu ya kwanza tulikuwa hatuchimbi madini na watu walisoma tena bureeeeeeeee
    Leo ndio hap hao wanshiriki kutuibia!!

    Mwl aliwahi kusema a poor person can be potentially Capitalist and vice versa!

    Eti mwl alikuwa mdini!! are you serious?

    Unaona hadi wanyarwanda wanamlilia eti tu kwa kuwa watu wanasema muda wa kuwaingiza kwente EAC bado!

    Hapa sisi ni watanzania anayejiona ni mwarabu aende uarabuni mapema!
    Tanzania siyo waraabu hata kidogo!
     
  8. Z

    Zanaki JF-Expert Member

    #8
    Oct 17, 2006
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    Dr Who mi nadhani ungekuja na mifano mizuri zaidi ya kuweza kuwa convince watu.Hio mifano au facts ulizotoa hapo juu zote ndio almost zilezile na zimeshakuwa crashed zamani tu:

    MUUNGANO...wanaoukubali muungano leo ni wengi kuliko wanaoukataa,ofcoz kuna marekebisho ambayo yangefanyika yangeufanya kuwa imara zaidi,lakini kwa ulivyokaa sasa unaonekana ni muhimu zaidi upande mmoja kuliko mwingine.Cha msingi nadhani ingekuwa ni bora kudiscuss mapungufu yake

    UDINI..suala la kutokuwa na religious harmony kati ya wakatoliki na waislamu kwa kweli ni geni kwangu,sijawahi kulisikia,ila najua wakati wa utawala wa Mwinyi, waislamu wachache walianzisha tabia ya kuikashifu dini ya kikristo kwa mihadhara,na likafikia pabaya sana.Pia ndio kipindi hicho ambacho waislamu waliandamana na kuvunja bucha zinazouza nyama ya nguruwe.Hicho ndio kipindi pekee ninacho jua mimi ambacho kweli kulikuwa kuna tension.

    UCHUMI....Ujamaa na Kujitegemea hauku-fail kama unavyosema.Wamerekani ambao ni ma-capitalist waliunga mkono sera za ujamaa na kujitegemea.Kwa nchi changa kama ya kwetu na ambayo wakoloni hawakuipendelea kama Kenya,that was the only way out.

    Leo hii,hizi nyumba za NHC wangekuwa wanakaa wahindi tu,hio NBC(wakati huo Barclays) wengi tusingeweza hata kufungua accounts.Kumbuka kuwa wengi wetu tulisoma bure shule ya msingi mpaka chuo kikuu pia tulitibiwa bure,kulikuwa na elimu ya watu wazima ambayo at the time ikafanya 85% ya watanzania kuwa literate,hata marekani haikuwa hivyo...

    Hapa alichofanya ni kuweka msingi wa maendeleo,ambao ulikuja kuvurugwa sana na viongozi waliomfuata na pia ukizingatia watendaji wake wakuu wakati huo nao walivurunda sana,na matokeo yake na kuonekana ni failure,lakini kama watendaji wangekuwa na watu makini sasa hivi tungekuwa tunaongelea mambo mengine kabisa,tatizo halikuwa policy bali watendaji.

    Madini yale hayakuchimbwa wakati ule na zikawekwa kambi za jeshi juu yake kuyalinda kwa sababu watanzania tulikuwa hatuna knowhow wala technology ya kuchimba.Lengo lilikuwa ni kuwasomesha watanzania wapate ujuzi na kuchimba wenyewe kwa faida ya taifa lao.Matokeo yake viongozi waliokuja wakaona ni upuuzi,na kuwapa makampuni ya kigeni kuchimba kwa faida zao binafsi na makampuni ya nje.Ni miaka zaidi ya kumi sasa,lakini hata ukitembelea maeneo yanayochimbwa haya madini,maendeleo hakuna,tungechimba watanzania wenyewe ingekuwa hivyo?Baada ya miaka kumi na tano maeneo mengi yatakuwa ni mashimo tu na maendeleo duni.

    Leo hii matanzania mwenye degree ya geology atalipwa less than $1000,lakini mu-australia ambaye hana hata diploma atalipwa $4500 na marupurupu kibao,huku watoto wake wakisomeshwa International school!

    MILITARY ADVENTURES..natumaini kutokuendelea kuwepo kwa Idi Amin Uganda ni sababu moja tosha ya kwa nini vita kama ile ilikuwa haikwepeki.Kumbuka kwamba Idi Amin alituvamia mara mbili,na mwishowe akajikatia KAgera salient na kusema ni sehemu ya Uganda.Wamarekani na waingereza wali-argue kuwa ilikuwa majeshi ya Idi Amin yapigwe kuondolewa kwenye ardhi ya Tanzania tu,lakini pia walipinga kitendo cha kuivamia Uganda.Tanzania a the time ilipata support kutoka Zambia Cuba na Algeria.Lakini mwaka 91 tukaona haohao waliotupinga wakiivamia Iraq(tena dunia nzima iliivamia Iraq),na baadae wakarudi tena 2003 ambapo wameivuruga Iraq kabisa!

    Faida zake zinaokena kwa sababu Uganda ni rafiki kwetu sasa.Msumbiji,Angola haya yalikuwa ni masuala ya kuzikomboa hizi nchi.Ule ulikuwa ni wakati wa Ukombozi wa bara la Africa...huu wa sasa ni wakati tofauti,viongozi wa sasa wanatakiwa ku-reep hayo matunda ya wakati ule,lakini hilo halifanyiki kama watu wanavyotegemea,badala yake watu wamebaki kumlaumu mtu aliyeacha uongozi miaka ISHIRINI iliyopita!

    DEMOKRASIA....well,ilikuwa ni mwalimu ndie aliyesema,nanukuu..'mtoto huyu sasa kishakuwa,nguo za wakati ule hazimtoshi na sasa anahitaji nguo mpya!' akimaanisha kuwa huu ni wakati wa TAnzania kuchukua mwelekeo mpya na hii nchi kuwa multi party democracy.Kumbuka kwamba 80% ya watanzania hawakutaka multipartysm.Suala kwamba wapinzani kazi yao ni kupinga tu na CCM kuwaona wapinzani ni maadui,hili haliwezi kuusishwa na mtu mmoja,maana MWalimu huyo huyo,aliiwaambia watu wa Musoma 1995 wasimpigie kura mgombea wa CCM kwa sababu ni mwizi na yeye mwenyewe alimpigia mgombea wa upinzani.

    EAST AFRICAN COMMUNITY...MWalimu alisema Kenyan society is a man eat man society,na Njonjo akasema Tanzania ni Man eat nothing society! Hio ndio tofauti kubwa iliyokuwepo wakati ule kwani Kenya kiuchumi walikuwa mbali,na waliathirika sana kuliko sisi baada ya shirikisho kufa maana viwanda vyao vilipoteza soko kubwa sana.Sasa sijui alifeli vipi hapo,maana kwakweli waliofaidika na shirikisho hilo walikuwa ni wakenya kuliko sisi.

    AFRICAN UNION....zile zilikuwa ni ndoto tu,ni kitu ambacho kisingewezekana.Kwanza kulikuwa na nchi nyingi sana ambazo zilikuwa hazijapata uhuru,mwalimu aliona ni bora kuwa na miungano midogomidogo,na alitaka kuuchelewesha uhuru wa Tanganyika ili upatikane pamoja na wa Kenya na Uganda ili tuungane.Tena yeye alisema alikuwa tayari kuwa waziri mkuu na Kenyatta awe rais

    UKABILA...kwa kweli ukabila hatuna,ukitaka kujua kuwa hatuna muulize mkenya yeyote!

    Nobody is saying that he was perfect,lakini compared to the rest during his time na sasa...he was close to being one!
     
  9. q

    quarz Member

    #9
    Oct 17, 2006
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    Guys,
    Mwalimu Alikuwa Moto Wa Kuotea Mbali,
    Hivi Naandika Hapa Nipo Europe Na Nimetoka Kwenye Restaurant Moja Kupata Msosi,hiyo Restaurant Ilikuwa Imejaa Wazungu Tupu, Baada Ya Kuchukua Chakula Na Kwenda Kukaa Kwenye Meza Moja,nikamkuta Mzungu Mmoja Hapo Over 40 Years,
    Bila Shaka Akaanza Kunizungumzisha, Na Mazungumzo Yetu Yakawa Kama Ifuatavyo...
    Mzungu: How Are You?
    Mimi: I Am Fine And What About You?
    Mzungu: Thank You I Am Fine
    Mzungu: Where Do You Come From?
    Mimi: I Come From Tanzania
    Mzungu: Ohh Tanzania, I Know Tanzania, This Is Where Nyerere Come From.
    Mimi: Mshangao!!
    Mzungu: Nyerere Was The Great Man,very Great...
    Mimi: Indeed
    Mzungu: I Remember When I Visited Africa Some Years Back,tanzania Was Better In Comparison To Other Countries Like Kenya,
    In Tanzania All People Were Living In Same Condition Not Like Kenya Were Few People Were Very Reach And Majority Were Very Poor.
    Mimi:yes Your Very Right But Things Are Defferent Know,nowadays Tanzania Ressembels Congo,
    Mzungu:eek:hh Realy?
    Mimi:smile And My Time Was Up And Goodbye.
    Guys Julius Was Exceptional
     
  10. n

    neno New Member

    #10
    Oct 17, 2006
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    Mandela hizo ndio jazba ambazo mtu aliyeenda shule hatakiwi kuwa,we're discussing yasiyosemwa about Nyerere,sasa udini na ujahiduina vinatokea wapi?

    Nyerere kafanya mengi na yanatajwa kila siku,nadhani anachojaribu kusema Dr Who ni kuwa tutazame pande zote za shilingi.Yes alikuwa selfless,patriotic,nk lakini na aliyokosea yapo yatajwe!Cha msingi ni kwamba kuna mapungufu ambayo tunataka iwe uhaini mtu akiyasema. Hapo ndo umungumtu unakuja
     
  11. Lunyungu

    Lunyungu JF-Expert Member

    #11
    Oct 17, 2006
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    DrWho anavyo jiita kwangu namuona kama ni mtu wa msituni tu na anakurupuka . Kaanza kuijua Tanzania baada kukaa Ulaya siku chache zilizo pita .Bado ana ubwa bwa wa shingo huyu maana huwa hajui mambo muhimu ya Nchi hata hamju Marehemu Prof Kighoma Malima wala Juma Kapuya .Huyu anahitaji msaada mkubwa na haya naamini si maneno yake atakuwa katumwa ama nadhamira yake chafu ama ujinga tu ama utoto na kutokujua . Mwalimu ni mtu pekee ambaye hadi anakufa kule London anasema watanzania wangu ninawa acha nani.
     
  12. J

    JokaKuu Platinum Member

    #12
    Oct 17, 2006
    Joined: Jul 31, 2006
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    Dr.Who,
    Jumuiya ya EAC wakati wa Nyerere ilikuwa na matatizo. Moja ya sababu za Tanzania kuanzisha BOT ni athari za kiuchumi zilizokuwa zikitokana na mfumo wa sarafu moja wakati huo. Jumuiya ilikuwa inatudumaza watanzania na hiyo ndiyo sababu ya msingi ya kuvunjika kwake.

    Viwanda vingi tunavyovibinafsisha sasa hivi vilianzishwa baada ya kuvunjika kwa Jumuiya. Kipindi cha Mwalimu tulikuwa na mpango wetu wenyewe wa kujenga viwanda, mpango uliobuniwa na kuongozwa, na watanzania.

    Binafsi, nadhani tatizo la Nyerere na CCM lilikuwa kushindwa kubadilika na wakati. Baada ya hali ya uchumi kuanza kutetereka, Mwalimu naye alianza kuserereka, asijue nani anayempa ushauri mzuri. Katika mazingira yale, Nyerere alichukua ushauri mbovu kuhusu njia za kukabiliana na matatizo ya kiuchumi yaliyojitokeza.

    Mwalimu alikuwa mwanasiasa, hakuwa mchumi.
     
  13. M

    Mkira JF-Expert Member

    #13
    Oct 17, 2006
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    Japokuwa tuna mengi muhimu ya kujadili!
    Anyway, kwa mtizamo wangu. Labda kosa lingine kubwa alilofanya mwl JKN ni 1995 alipoamua kumkingia kifua bwana Mkapa ili awe rais bila kujua kuwa "People have different sides to different people!

    Bahati mbaya amekufa na hataweza kuona maovu zaidi ya BMW!!

    Japo nina imani alishayajua mengine kabla hajafa.

    Je haya yatatusaidia kupunguza matito yanatukabili sasa?
     
  14. M

    Mkira JF-Expert Member

    #14
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    "People have different sides to show to different people!
     
  15. G

    Game Theory JF-Expert Member

    #15
    Oct 17, 2006
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    @Kitila Mkumbo

    I wrote a pretty long reply but lost it

    You made some interesting points but wouldnt you be emotional if you were a product of an African version of GULAGS ?..which came in form of AZIMIO LA ARUSHA which resulted to OPERESHENI VIJIJI?

    You mentioned a good point on LEADERSHIP. As much as as Tanzanian's are forgiving people but lets not forget the current leadership is just a product of NYERERE and this can be seen by the number of threads in here that complain about TANZANIAN LEADERS . I am sorry to say this but this generation of Tanzanian leaders for the most part are pygmies in every sense and more interested in tribal politics or the small fish bowl mentailty and what they can gain for themselves and their clique. They have no vision of consequence because you need to be of consequence to have it. They lack shame or pride at the appropriate level because they are nothing but grubby hustlers and crooks

    Imagine these leaders cant even read small print when they sign a Water privatization with foreign companies such as BI WATER or IPTL ...yes they are a a product of Mwalimu who never taught them being accountable to their people..be it those in the power or opposition
     
  16. J

    Jasusi JF-Expert Member

    #16
    Oct 17, 2006
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    drWHO,
    My parents lived in Ujamaa village. It never was a Gulag. So if you do not want people to get emotional do not use labels that cause emotion.
     
  17. G

    Game Theory JF-Expert Member

    #17
    Oct 17, 2006
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    I give him credit for not being a thief lakini he was surrounded by those who were not honet na hii ndio iloiomtia doa kubwa
     
  18. G

    Game Theory JF-Expert Member

    #18
    Oct 17, 2006
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    You are entitled to have an opinion but that doesnt mean that UJAMAA VILLAGES were characterised by gross human rights violations and they were a failure


    Even one of the leading left wing bible newspapers in UK (THE GUARDIAN) didnt have a favourable opinion on one of the pioneers of UJAMAA in Africa..and more interesting the another piece was written by AHMED RAJAB....errm he is a Tanzanian btw

    here is the link:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/obituaries/story/0,,258647,00.html
     
  19. Gigo

    Gigo JF-Expert Member

    #19
    Oct 17, 2006
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    SAWA SAWA!!!-MZEE!
     
  20. G

    Game Theory JF-Expert Member

    #20
    Oct 17, 2006
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    Kama nilivyosema hapo awali hii thread siyo ya KUMKADNIA nyerere lakini wlau tupate nafasi ya kuangalia upande wa pili ambao watawala wana taka wananchi wajue

    Imagine kikazi kijacho kikijagundua kuwa kimefundshwa Propaganda?

    Mfano Mwalimu alipo retire in 1985 hautaka zawadi alizopewa lakini leo hii kuna kamatai za kurename kila kitu NYERERE na kujenga sanamu amabzo mwali alizikataa wakati wa uhai wake sasa kama si unafiki ni nini?

    Lakini hiyo haizuii hoja kuwa Mwalimu alitaka kuretire kijijini kwake Butiama lakini ma tax payers bado waligharamia maisha yake pale msasani apart from nyumba aliyojengewa kule Butiama Mwanza..lakini its a small price to pay kwa mtu kama Mwalimu lakini ugomvi uko kwa hawa waliomfuata
     
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