Kenya inaelekea pabaya...

[Kabaridi]

Mzalendo452,

mkuu when addressing this issue Im interested to know if you are looking at the ICC from the
context of Kenya or in totality? Hili swala la 'they have not arrested any bigfish' sikuelewi. We know
the 'guests' who have an abode over there. Some of them have even died there like kina Milosovich.
So enlighten me where you are coming from with that notion so that I dont get you wrong.

In regards to this notion.... there seems to be external pressure from ICC... where is the data to
support this claim? When you use such words like "it seems" in a sentence, then those become your
opinions and they are normally taken with a grain of salt. Remember we are separating the chaff from
wheat.

In the last paragraph you bring up the issue of bashir which is crucial when looking at this issue in its
totality. Kenya is a signatory of the Rome Statute that established the ICC so the onus fell on the
KE govt to arrest Bashir and hand him over to the ICC...but guess what?Kibaki thumbed his nose at the
international community and Kenyans at large by inviting an international fugitive as a guest of the
State. So why you wanna frag the fellows at the Hague into this yet its the member states who are
signatories of the Statute, who should arrest these fugitives. ICC has no standing army nor police to
be running around the world arresting people. They rely on governments and things like the interpol.
So what Kibaki is showing us ni kwamba he will use his impunity to achieve his selfish ends even if it
means a daliance with 'wanted fugitives'....na mta do?

A couple days ago there was a discussion on BBC titled: ICC: Is Africa on Trial....staged in Kenya with
most contributors being from KE. Very interesting discussion from the folks in attendance!.. Ukipata
nafasi you can listen in the following links:

BBC - Media Centre - BBC Africa Debate

BBCSwahili.com (Swahili)

This is an interesting set of facts I want you to digest:

Ivory Coast was not a signatory of the ICC but in 2003 Gbagbo (as President)accepted the jurisdiction
of the courts over Ivory Coast. Then in 2010 while still Preso he confirmed his country's
commitmment to working with the court. Then what happened next? Outtara comes into power
and ships him straight to the Hague...talk about impaling yourself with your own sword!

Ab-Titchaz.

@Ab-Titchaz,

First, Before we delve into a long and contentious debate we have to find out what especially on the Gbagbos case, the type of event that happened in Ivory coast. The scenario there was that the magnitude of violence was escalated by leftist opposition with the help of the military N.B. and while it is was wrong for Gbagbo to continue to cling into power, the ICC did not address the massive loss of lives and incitements caused via opposition leftists and Ivorian military dissidents aided by the UN forces(majorly of french origin) of equal magnitude. Ivory coast and their politics is deeply intertwined in french politics. Also, all principles in the ICC are European forms or models of politics and very few legal considerations are actually enforced during making key decisions. That is why the ICC's integrity in apprehension and trial is questionable.

Secondly, It was wrong for the UN to allow that disputed presidential transition to degenerate into a full-scale mutiny whilst offering the opposition logistical support. That is why precisely I have reason to believe that Gaddafi Libyan case with NATO is the same scenario and are of simmilar forces. European political empires would normally bypass the legal constitution of a African nations and the rule of law. So when we are talking about Sovereignty of a country apart from the usual cases of corruption and other ills what do we mean?

PS explain if Quattaras ascension to power has any integrity based on this events?

 

[Ab-Titchaz]

@Ab-Titchaz,

First, Before we delve into a long and contentious debate we have to find out what especially on the Gbagbos case, the type of event that happened in Ivory coast. The scenario there was that the magnitude of violence was escalated by leftist opposition with the help of the military N.B. and while it is was wrong for Gbagbo to continue to cling into power, the ICC did not address the massive loss of lives and incitements caused via opposition leftists and Ivorian military dissidents aided by the UN forces(majorly of french origin) of equal magnitude. Ivory coast and their politics is deeply intertwined in french politics. Also, all principles in the ICC are European forms or models of politics and very few legal considerations are actually enforced during making key decisions. That is why the ICC's integrity in apprehension and trial is questionable.

Secondly, It was wrong for the UN to allow that disputed presidential transition to degenerate into a full-scale mutiny whilst offering the opposition logistical support. That is why precisely I have reason to believe that Gaddafi Libyan case with NATO is the same scenario and are of simmilar forces. European political empires would normally bypass the legal constitution of a African nations and the rule of law. So when we are talking about Sovereignty of a country apart from the usual cases of corruption and other ills what do we mean?

PS explain if Quattaras ascension to power has any integrity based on this events?

Mzalendo452,

I beg to turn down your challenge primarily because this is not the purpose of this thread.

The reason I introduced the Ivory Coast angle was to show you the folly of how an African
State got entangled in the tentacles of the ICC when they were prior not subject to its
jurisdiction. Thats all. I was not trying to pass judgement on the morality of the theater
of events that took place and saw the exchange of power between these two men.

Have a good day.

 

[Kabaridi]

Mzalendo452,

I beg to turn down your challenge primarily because this is not the purpose of this thread.

The reason I introduced the Ivory Coast angle was to show you the folly of how an African
State got entangled in the tentacles of the ICC when they were prior not subject to its
jurisdiction. Thats I all. I was not trying to pass judgement on the morality of the theater
of events that took place and saw the exchange of power between these two men.

Have a good day.

precisely my point, many issues and critical details are left unattended by the ICC prosecution which makes it a process that lacks credibility

 

[Ab-Titchaz]

precisely my point, many issues and critical details are left unattended by the ICC prosecution which makes it a process that lacks credibility

If this be thy point, then kindly make reference to the Kenyan case and we can proceed from there.

Also, dont you think it is prudent for the indicted to go to the Hague and argue their case out rather
than this posturing to public opinion and whipping up tribal sentiments?

Is Kibaki really in control or has he abdicated responsibility to somebody else or people?

 

[Kabaridi]

If this be thy point, then kindly make reference to the Kenyan case and we can proceed from there.

Also, dont you think it is prudent for the indicted to go to the Hague and argue their case out rather
than this posturing to public opinion and whipping up tribal sentiments?

Is Kibaki really in control or has he abdicated responsibility to somebody else or people?

If bashir was mentioned what makes you think that kibaki will not be mentioned by the prosecutors. Kibaki is not in control but the ICC is receiving stiff resistance from two fronts of Paliamenterians and the Supreme court of Kenya. now everybody is using their weapons of choice. I agree we should not debate on the ICC process, but the process not credible based on the prosecutors and the way they are conducting their business. Now the ICC is meeting a devolved system of government based on the new constitution, which I have to say they have they will have to uncover much. now those using tribal banners should go and stop politicizing the hague issue.

Now the other thing that we should ask ourselves the timing of the prosecution, the full trial was supposed to start this year & mind you what are they waiting for?! still I repeat upto december or early january will we know whether the ICC has enuff mandate.

 

[Mwembetayari]

It is advisable for Tanzanians to start minding their own business. With 82% of you people living on under $1.25 one would expect your economic issues would be on the forefront and not udaku!
Tanzania is also a signatory to the Rome Statute but all the same, please focus on your issues, wacha domo domo na udaku! :heh:

 

[Bantugbro]

Kile kitamfanya Raila Odinga awe rais wa Kenya,,baada ya uchanguzi
ujao,,niyeye mwenyewe,,niyapi ambayo amewafanyia wakenya
tangu awe PM wa Kenya, almost five years ago.

Only the people of Kenya to decide who will be the next president
of this country,,all of them,,not one tribe,,not Ocampo nor the
British,,but the people of the republic of Kenya.

Hakuna popote kubaya Kenya inapo elekea,,Kule Kenya imetoka
ni kubaya zaidi na mafunzo mengi watu wakajifunza.

Kujaribu kulinganisha wakati wa 2007 na hivi sasa,,
nikujaribu kuona karibu na sikuenda hadi katika kiini
cha ambacho kilichosababisha PEV ya 2007.

Adui wakati huo,,kwa wana siasa wengi wa opposition,,
alikua Mwai Kibaki ambaye hata simama tena na
kupigania urais wa Kenya.

Sasa mambo yamebadilika na adui ya wanasiasa
wengi nchini Kenya ni Raila Odinga,mwenyew.

Makabila ambao walikua hasa wakipigana,,
wa Kikuyu na wa Kalenjin,,wakati baadaa
ya uchanguzi wa 2007,,wako pamoja sasa
kisiasa.

Kenya iko na katiba ambayo ni the main driver
na hata hivi juzi ambapo PM Raila alipojaribu
kukosoa korti,,alijikuta matatani na kulaumu
kiswahili chake.

So the lack of rule of law is what caused
the chaos of 2007.

Mkuu mbona hii habari yako imekaa kama shairi

 

[FJM]

It is advisable for Tanzanians to start minding their own business. With 82% of you people living on under $1.25 one would expect your economic issues would be on the forefront and not udaku!
Tanzania is also a signatory to the Rome Statute but all the same, please focus on your issues, wacha domo domo na udaku! :heh:

ha ha ha Mwembetayari bana... vipi tena mbona unazima topic? International Forum, you bring the starts, the side brings ICC. let's discuss. :msela:

 

[Kobello]

Alongside the majority of Kenyans that support the ICC process, your own government and a total of 33 African states I am an embarrassment. I will go further and state a >40% dependency on the west for sustenance is barely the hallmark of your fabled break out. I rubbish the rest of your sentiments as it is obvious they are peppered with middle eastern cumin.

Go get'em then!
They ain't hard to find!

 

[ketwas]

Je, Rais Kibaki kushirikiana na Mahakama ya Kimataifa ya Mauaji ya Kimbari katika awamu ya pili ya majaribio kama baada ya uchaguzi watuhumiwa kupoteza mwisho rufaa amesimama kati yao na kesi kamili katika Hague?

Hili ni swali kubwa lurking katika vivuli ya mfululizo wa matukio na hata matendo yake mwenyewe, ambayo inaonekana kwa uhakika katika ukweli kwamba kitu inaweza kuwa katika offing, au kwa lolote, mtu ambayo inaweza kuwa na softening ya ardhi kwa wasio- ushirikiano na ICC.

kitu uvumi inaweza kuwa inaendelea kufufuka siku ya Jumanne, si kwa sababu tu ya mvurugo kwamba makazi alama juu ya mstari Hague katika Baraza la Mawaziri.

Hii pia ilikuwa ni siku hiyo hiyo ya Makamu wa Rais Kalonzo Musyoka, ambaye kwa baraka ya Rais, wakiongozwa diplomasia ya kuhamisha duniani kote kutetea au kutofautiana kwa matokeo kurudi kwa kesi ya Kenya huko The Hague na mahakama za ndani, alikuwa nchini Sudan na " maalum ujumbe 'kwa Rais Omar Al Bashir.

Sasa, Bashir ni Rais umezingirwa mashitaka na ICC na ambao harakati ni mdogo kwa sababu hati ya kukamatwa ni nje kwa ajili yake. Hata hivyo, akatoka yeye anafurahia uhusiano cozy na utawala wa Kibaki wakati mwaka 2010 alipofika Kenya bila hofu ya kukamatwa na makabidhiano ya ICC.

Ofisi ya Makamu wa Rais, hata hivyo, anasisitiza ziara alikuwa na kitu cha kufanya na ICC, ingawa kuna uwezekano wa mkutano kati ya mjumbe Rais Kibaki na ICC VIP mtuhumiwa ingekuwa mwisho bila ya majadiliano juu ya The Hague kutokana na profile ya Wakenya mapigano mbali kesi kamili.

Kushawishi

"Makamu wa Rais alikwenda kutoa ujumbe kwa niaba ya Rais Kibaki kwa Rais Bashir juu ya migogoro kati ya Kusini na Amerika ya Kaskazini (Sudan)," alisema Kaplich Barsito, msemaji wa VP.

Kama Kalonzo alikutana Bashir Kibaki reshuffled upande wake wa Baraza la Mawaziri Grand Coalition, kuhamisha wakubwa Justice waziri Mutula Kilonzo kutoka Wizara Justice, na Moses Wetangula kutoka Wizara ya Mambo ya Nje.

mabadiliko aliona mbili kubadilishwa katika Baraza la Mawaziri ndogo ya Kamati ya ICC kwa waandamizi wao katika ofisi yao ya awali - Eugene Wamalwa na Sam Ongeri.

wageni mbili ndogo ya kamati zinaonekana kuwa karibu si tu kwa Rais, lakini hata zaidi walioshirikiana na Naibu Waziri Mkuu Uhuru Kenyatta na Eldoret William Ruto, ambaye ni muhimu nguzo ya Muungano wa G7.

Katika majaribio ICC, hasa kwa sababu za vifaa, ushauri na ushirikiano, Sheria na Mambo ya Nje wa wizara na jukumu kubwa, na mvuto wana ushawishi kwenye kamati ni zaidi kama nyumba kwa ajili ya mazungumzo clearing Serikali-ICC.

Kusafiri nje ya nchi

"Jimbo ni polepole gravitating kwenye uundwaji kupambana na ICC na ni kuwa kusukuma na majeshi ya kupambana na mageuzi kati yetu," alidai waziri Ardhi James Orengo, ambaye ni mjumbe wa kamati ndogo. Alilalamika kuondolewa Mutula, alikuwa amefungwa na kuathiri mafanikio yaliyopatikana katika ushirikiano na ICC.

"Mimi naona jaribio la kujiandaa kwa ajili ya hatua zisizo za ushirikiano na ICC kama kuchunguza matukio ya hivi karibuni, lakini itakuwa Boomerang," Orengo alionya.

Aliongeza: "Ndiyo, unaweza kushindwa kushirikiana na ICC lakini bado watuhumiwa ambao ni mwanakijiji ... huwezi kusafiri nje ya nchi."

Imenti ya Kati mbunge Gitobu Imanyara alisema alikuwa perturbed Serikali isingekuwa categorical juu ya ushirikiano na ICC. "Kwenda kwa nini kilichotokea moja bila ya kuwasili katika hitimisho pingamizi kwamba Serikali inaandaa ardhi kwa wasio operesheni-mwenza," aliongeza.

Pia kabla ya chama tawala cha shauku awaited juu ya rufaa ya mwisho inatarajiwa mwezi Mei, mbili maendeleo makubwa yalitokea. Katika kile anaweza kuwa alisema kuwa mtangulizi wa mabadiliko ya Baraza la Mawaziri, Ijumaa iliyopita, GEMA (ambayo inakusanya pamoja Gikuyu, Embu na Meru jamii) alipokelewa Uhuru katika Limuru kama kiongozi mkuu wa Kenya. Wao alitangaza mpango wa kukusanya saini milioni mbili ya kulalamikia ICC kuahirisha kesi Kenya mpaka baada ya Uchaguzi Mkuu.

"Serikali ina si dissociated yenyewe kutoka mkutano wa kikabila katika Limuru bado jina ya Rais pia featured kwenye mkutano," alilalamika Imanyara.

Waziri wa Uhamiaji Otieno Kajwang 'alisema kama katika hatua yoyote ya mahakama akili isiyo ya ushirikiano itakuwa kudai Mkuu wa Nchi binafsi co-kazi kwa handing juu ya watu wanaotuhumiwa.

"Kama yeye si kufanya hivyo basi kibali cha kukamatwa itakuwa iliyotolewa dhidi yake binafsi na kwamba ni asili ya sheria ya kimataifa kwani kwa sasa crafted," aliongeza.

Mapema, Mwanasheria Mkuu wa Serikali Githu Muigai kuteuliwa timu maarufu wa wanasheria kushauri Serikali juu ya majaribio ya ICC. Inaweza kuwa muhimu kwamba mvurugo na safari Kalonzo wa Sudan baada ya hawa wataalam aliiambia Serikali kwamba serikali inaweza kuwa hana chaguo lakini makabidhiano watuhumiwa kama dua zao flops na masuala ya ICC hati za kukamatwa.

Zaidi ishara ambao unaweza kusababisha swali kama huenda kuna njama za kujenga dhidi ya The Hague alikuja wakati ICC Mwendesha mashtaka Luis Moreno-Ocampo wamepinga akaunti za barua pepe ya baadhi ya mashahidi wake na washirika wao walikuwa kuwa hacked.

Kisasi mpango

Kuelekea mwisho huu, polisi mbaroni mwandishi wa habari wa ndani na kupeleka maafisa wawili waandamizi wa The Hague kufuatilia suala hilo. madai, kama kweli, ina athari kubwa kwa maisha ya mashahidi, na inaweza hata kudhoofisha kesi katika Hague kama kisha kuamua hatua chini kutoka kizimbani kwa hofu ya maisha yao.

Mpango wa Jimbo la upya umri wa files 5000 baada ya uchaguzi pia yalisababisha mjadala kama haikuwa ama tishio kimya au mpango kisasi dhidi ya baadhi ya wanasiasa ambao alitoroka ICC rada, au hata jaribio la kumshawishi Kenya Hague umefika wa umri na hawawezi kuaminiwa kujaribu kesi zote ghasia baada ya uchaguzi.

Ubavu na hii ilikuwa nyingine curious action wa taarifa za kurekodi kutoka kwa baadhi ya watuhumiwa wa ICC na Idara ya Mauaji ya Kimbari ya Uchunguzi. Hii ilionekana kama jaribio la kumshawishi ICC kwamba Serikali inaweza kweli kuwa 'kuaminiwa' ya kushughulikia kesi zinazohusu samaki kubwa pia.

Lakini tena na tukio hilo kama Serikali iliajiri wataalam wa Uingereza kisheria kupambana na kesi yake huko The Hague kupitia mfululizo wa rufaa na hoja jurisdictional.

Pamoja na madai ya Hacking ya akaunti ya barua pepe alikuja kinachojulikana kama 'Uingereza Makala', kufukuzwa kazi kama bandia na Uingereza. ripoti ya purported kuonyesha kwamba Kibaki, pia, wanaweza kushitakiwa kwa kustaafu, na kwamba Waziri Mkuu Raila Odinga anaweza kuwa na jukumu katika kesi Hague, na pia ni mgombea preferred kwa ajili ya nchi za Magharibi.

Mbunge wa Yatta Charles Kilonzo ambaye ripoti iliyowasilishwa bungeni hakutaka kuzungumzia suala hilo, wakisema: ". Mimi marufuku kujadili suala vile wakati ni chini ya uchunguzi kwa hiyo hebu kwa kusubiri na kuona nini kamati ingekuwa kuja na"

Mabadiliko ya akili

Wajir West Mbunge Adan Keynan, ambaye ni kuongoza probe ubunge katika ripoti, alikataa kutoa maoni juu yake mpaka uchunguzi ni juu.

mwisho muhimu action juu ya suala hili alikuwa Rais Kibaki wa baadhi ya mabadiliko ya akili juu ya msaada kwa ajili ya tarehe ya uchaguzi wa Desemba 2012 hadi Machi 2013, ambayo inatoa uwezekano wa yeye kuwa katika nguvu hadi Mei kuzunguka katika kesi kutakuwa na uchaguzi wa kukimbia-off.

Kajwang 'alisema Kenya amefungwa mikono yake wakati ule iliridhia Sanamu Roma. "Kama kulikuwa na jaribio lolote la kufanya yoyote ya haya basi Serikali itakuwa kosa kubwa ya kimataifa ya uhalifu," alisema.

 

[mfianchi]

Kile kitamfanya Raila Odinga awe rais wa Kenya,,baada ya uchanguzi
ujao,,niyeye mwenyewe,,niyapi ambayo amewafanyia wakenya
tangu awe PM wa Kenya, almost five years ago.

Only the people of Kenya to decide who will be the next president
of this country,,all of them,,not one tribe,,not Ocampo nor the
British,,but the people of the republic of Kenya.

Hakuna popote kubaya Kenya inapo elekea,,Kule Kenya imetoka
ni kubaya zaidi na mafunzo mengi watu wakajifunza.

Kujaribu kulinganisha wakati wa 2007 na hivi sasa,,
nikujaribu kuona karibu na sikuenda hadi katika kiini
cha ambacho kilichosababisha PEV ya 2007.

Adui wakati huo,,kwa wana siasa wengi wa opposition,,
alikua Mwai Kibaki ambaye hata simama tena na
kupigania urais wa Kenya.

Sasa mambo yamebadilika na adui ya wanasiasa
wengi nchini Kenya ni Raila Odinga,mwenyew.

Makabila ambao walikua hasa wakipigana,,
wa Kikuyu na wa Kalenjin,,wakati baadaa
ya uchanguzi wa 2007,,wako pamoja sasa
kisiasa.

Kenya iko na katiba ambayo ni the main driver
na hata hivi juzi ambapo PM Raila alipojaribu
kukosoa korti,,alijikuta matatani na kulaumu
kiswahili chake.

So the lack of rule of law is what caused
the chaos of 2007.

Tumekusikia mwana GEMA,naona wale wenye jigger na wanaopigwa na wake zao kwa ulevi/wanakaa nyumba za full suite(nyumba za mabati} watakusikiliza na U GEMA wako,hata Ruto naye ana Wakalenjin wake hiyo ndio Kenya nombea mujipotezee tena kwa ujinga wenu wa kuendekeza ubinafsi na ukabila

 

[Ab-Titchaz]

It is advisable for Tanzanians to start minding their own business. With 82% of you people living on under $1.25 one would expect your economic issues would be on the forefront and not udaku!
Tanzania is also a signatory to the Rome Statute but all the same, please focus on your issues, wacha domo domo na udaku! :heh:

Mwembetayari,

Please be advised you do not dictate what members should post on this forum.

 

[livefire]

Mwembetayari,

Please be advised you do not dictate what members should post on this forum.

MOD chill on the gag,lol. He is only expressing an opinion as the majority of JF members here

 

[Kabaridi]

Tumekusikia mwana GEMA,naona wale wenye jigger na wanaopigwa na wake zao kwa ulevi/wanakaa nyumba za full suite(nyumba za mabati} watakusikiliza na U GEMA wako,hata Ruto naye ana Wakalenjin wake hiyo ndio Kenya nombea mujipotezee tena kwa ujinga wenu wa kuendekeza ubinafsi na ukabila

Hatutaruhusu kamwe shughuli zetu za kisiasa zibatilishwe na wazungu kutoka Uingereza. Wakenya watafanya shughuli zao iwe ni za kisiasa au kuendesha sera zao bila kugubikwa na kushurutishwa na wazungu na vijipeni vyao kusukumia wakenya wameze mapendekezo yao. Ndio tunaona hata watu kama marekani wanawashwa sana na hawalali usingizi wanapoona Uchina ikipaa kiuchumi. Hivi sasa Obama anatuma majeshi yake korea Kaskazini kwa madai ya uzinduzi wa roketi humo ni silaha. Wingu jeusi la ubeberu wa Kisiasa umeanza kuvuma. Waliokuwa wawindaji sasa ni wao wanawindwa huku wajinga wameerevuka. Tena isitoshe viongozi waafrika na ubinafsi wao wamebaki kuinamia serikali za magharibi ili wapate ufadhili wa fedha na mengine mengi kutoka ulaya na kawaida hiki ndicho huchangia viongozi wafisadi na wasiojali hatma ya nchi na maskini wake kueneza siasa mbaya........................................Hatutaacha kamwe Fikra za MRC ziharibu amani tumekuwa nayo tangu UHURU!

 

[FJM]

Hatutaruhusu kamwe shughuli zetu za kisiasa zibatilishwe na wazungu kutoka Uingereza. Wakenya watafanya shughuli zao iwe ni za kisiasa au kuendesha sera zao bila kugubikwa na kushurutishwa na wazungu na vijipeni vyao kusukumia wakenya wameze mapendekezo yao. Ndio tunaona hata watu kama marekani wanawashwa sana na hawalali usingizi wanapoona Uchina ikipaa kiuchumi. Hivi sasa Obama anatuma majeshi yake korea Kaskazini kwa madai ya uzinduzi wa roketi humo ni silaha. Wingu jeusi la ubeberu wa Kisiasa umeanza kuvuma. Waliokuwa wawindaji sasa ni wao wanawindwa huku wajinga wameerevuka. Tena isitoshe viongozi waafrika na ubinafsi wao wamebaki kuinamia serikali za magharibi ili wapate ufadhili wa fedha na mengine mengi kutoka ulaya na kawaida hiki ndicho huchangia viongozi wafisadi na wasiojali hatma ya nchi na maskini wake kueneza siasa mbaya........................................Hatutaacha kamwe Fikra za MRC ziharibu amani tumekuwa nayo tangu UHURU!

Wachina na mataifa ya Magharibu = tofauti ni iko kwenye mechanisms za unyonyaji. Mmoja anakuja na arrogant face, mwingine anakuja na face inayosema 'mutual benefit' but the truth is Africa inanyemelewa na jinamizi lile lile - unyonyaji. HQ za African Union kule Addis ni zawadi ya wachina kwa entire continent! Kuanzia jengo hadi furniture. Hivi kweli Afrika nzima hatuna uwezo wa kujenga HQ yetu? Inaudhi!

 

[Ab-Titchaz]

Hatutaruhusu kamwe shughuli zetu za kisiasa zibatilishwe na wazungu kutoka Uingereza.

Hahahahaha!!!!......:heh:...!!!!

Mazee you made me laugh so hard I almost peed my pants.

Did you just say the words I highlighted above?....hehehehe...morio acha utani.

...one of the Ocampo quartet said the exact same words you are saying yet his own legal counsel
was made up of 'white jungus' as you would call them. Not forgetting that the business ties this
'big family' has, is in one way or another tied to the mzungu....Do I smell a racist?...hahaha..Mzalendo
please bring another angle. Hii ya kusema wazungu sijui mbaazi na pojo...mara kunde...will not wash.

Oh before I forget, what are those Irish, British or Scottish soldiers doing in Kenya? The other day they
were fighting against each other at some hotel and one was flung out of the window? Have you ever
been to Kahawa garrison?

Mazee dont get me started on this one.

Have a Happy Easter (oops thats one of those mzungu things that the man uses to control us!...:heh:..)

 

[Ab-Titchaz]

MOD chill on the gag,lol. He is only expressing an opinion as the majority of JF members here

Dont get this one twisted...its him that is gagging us by telling us not to post topics on the beloved Jamhuri.
And I called him out on it.

Kamata nyama choma na tusker baridi....heri ya pasaka kwako!

 

[Kabaridi]

Hahahahaha!!!!......:heh:...!!!!

Mazee you made me laugh so hard I almost peed my pants.

Did you just say the words I highlighted above?....hehehehe...morio acha utani.

...one of the Ocampo quartet said the exact same words you are saying yet his own legal counsel
was made up of 'white jungus' as you would call them. Not forgetting that the business ties this
'big family' has, is in one way or another tied to the mzungu....Do I smell a racist?...hahaha..Mzalendo
please bring another angle. Hii ya kusema wazungu sijui mbaazi na pojo...mara kunde...will not wash.

Oh before I forget, what are those Irish, British or Scottish soldiers doing in Kenya? The other day they
were fighting against each other at some hotel and one was flung out of the window? Have you ever
been to Kahawa garrison?

Mazee dont get me started on this one.

Have a Happy Easter (oops thats one of those mzungu things that the man uses to control us!...:heh:..)

I did not mean that I am rasicst I said we will not allow any foreigner to control what is good for kenya politically, and any white man can come and stay because we do not need to be controlled. Laikipia has a heavy presence of military personnel from all over the globe especially from UK. There has been what we call bilateral military partnerships, training, and intelligence gathering especially with the British army for decades in kenya. So this is not anything new in kenya.

As per kahawa garrisons, what about it?!

 

[Bukyanagandi]

Nairoberry,

I believe you are barking at the wrong tree and be advised not to do it for long.

Nowhere in this thread am I talking or insinuating anything about GDP and please do
not derail this thread from the jump. I believe you are intelligent enough to see what
this thread is about and contribute appropriately.

Ishu za Arumeru peleka Jukwaa la Siasa/Chaguzi ndogo utakutana na wachangiaji kibao tu huko.

Enjoy your day.

Ab-Titchaz.

Bravo Ab-Titchaz, I hope this serves him right - alafu anajifanya eti MTz, huku yuko hell bent to bash eveything TANZANIAN, would you believe IT!

 

[Ab-Titchaz]

I did not mean that I am rasicst I said we will not allow any foreigner to control what is good for kenya politically, and any white man can come and stay because we do not need to be controlled. Laikipia has a heavy presence of military personnel from all over the globe especially from UK. There has been what we call bilateral military partnerships, training, and intelligence gathering especially with the British army for decades in kenya. So this is not anything new in kenya.

As per kahawa garrisons, what about it?!

That right there is what makes the 'mzungu' have a hand in your affairs...whether you like it or not.

Those people are not just there to train KDF but in actual essence to protect the investments of the
Brits and the West in Kenya. The 'whiteman' doesn't do anything for free and I know you know that.
So it is hypocritical for Kenyans to say they dont want the West determining their affairs yet the same
West have colossus amounts of investment in the Jamhuri....which props up the Kenyan economy in
one way or another.

Thus you can't have your cake and it eat it too...so goes the saying.