Monstgala
JF-Expert Member
- Aug 25, 2009
- 1,079
- 1,034
Hahaha! hii urojo inafurahia kutawaliwa na mwarabu! Kweli utumwa wa fikra ndio mbaya kabisa maishani.
Ismail Jussa amtukana Sitta, Nyerere na wa Tz Bara!
- Thread starter abdulahsaf
- Start date
Hahaha! hii urojo inafurahia kutawaliwa na mwarabu! Kweli utumwa wa fikra ndio mbaya kabisa maishani.
takashi
JF-Expert Member
- Apr 1, 2009
- 905
- 188
Wewe na Sitta wote kundi moja wapumbavu... hizo siasa zenu mlioachiwa na yule mzee wenu zimepitwa na wakati... Kwa idadi watanganyika wako wengi zaidi kuliko wazanzibar walioko Tanganyika. Muda ukifika kila mtu atatambua kwao. Tafuta kingine kwahilo humtishi mzanzibari.
Nywele za Jussa ? mzazibari haangalii hilo, cha muhimu nini kazungumza. Hamna pakushika sasa mnaangalia nywele. Huu pia upumbavu.
Ndugu Rugemeleza,
Asante sana.
Nakubaliana nawe kuhusu umuhimu wa kuwa na serikali moja. Lakini sijui unazungumzia serikali moja ya aina gani. Shirikisho au unitary state?
Tangu nchi zetu zipate uhuru, karibu viongozi wote walisisitiza umuhimu wa kuwa na unitary state. Kwame Nkrumah, Mwalimu Nyerere, Ahmed Sekou Toure, na hata jirani yetu, Mzee Jomo Kenyatta, alisisitiza sana umuhimu wa serikali ya aina hiyo.
Nakumbuka miaka ile wakati kiongozi wa upinzani nchini Kenya, Ronald Ngala, alipopinga sana Kenya kuwa na unitary state. Alisisitiza sana umuhimu wa kuwa na serikali ya shirikisho, shirikisho la majimbo, kwa sababu aliogopa makabila madogo, kwa mfano makabila katika jimbo la Pwani alikotoka, Coast Province, hayatakuwa na usemi katika serikali na nchi ambayo ni highly centralised state. Aliogopa nchi yao itatawaliwa na makabila makubwa, hasa Wakikuyu na Wajaluo.
Majimboism is a phenomenoin that bedevils Kenya unto this day, only in varying degrees, with the Coast Province again, as in the past, being a hotbed of ethnoregional solidarity; so is the Rift Valley, and so is Nyanza Province, a Luo stronghold.
Kwa upande wetu, miongoni mwa matatizo ya Muungano ni Uzanzibari wa Watanzania visiwani. Uzanzibari wao amounts to Zanzibari nationalism, which is anathema to some of us, and a threat to our national integrity.
Hata tukiendelea kuwa na aina ya serikali ambayo ni unitary state, ingawa kuna sehemu ambazo zinaoenekana kama ni federal structures with regard to Zanzibar's autonomous status, na kwahiyo siyo highly centralized state the way Tanganyika was, or the way Ghana was under Nkrumah, Wazanzibari wataendelea kulalamika. Serikali moja haiwezi kutatua tatizo hilo.
There are two solutions: Vunja Muungano kama unavyosema. Au tuwe na serikali ya shirikisho itakayo ruhusu extensive devolution of power to the regions to allay fears of Zanzibaris that they are being dominated, oppressed and exploited by "Tanganyikans."
Tatizo la serikali ya aina hiyo ni kwamba kuna uwezekano wa nchi kuanza kuvunjika pole pole kwa sababu serikali za majimbo naturally tend to fuel regionalism. There also emerges another phenomenon from regionalism, which is ethnonationalism inayotokana na umoja wa makabila katika majimbo hayo yatakayo jiona kama ni "taifa dogo," katika kila jimbo, if we have a federal government which allows extensive autonomy katika majimbo.
Sehemu yetu ya Afrika Mashariki, Kenyatta neutralised regionalism when it posed a threat to national unity. Ronald Ngala's opposition party, the Kenya Democratic Union (KADU), eventually died and its members, including Ngala himself, joined KANU. I remember those days.
Tragically, Kenyatta was not a true nationalist. He was a tribal chauvinist who promoted Kikuyu interests at the expense of others. Kenya became a highly centralised state, ruled by Kenyatta with an iron fist, to preserve, protect and promote Kikuyu interests.
Obote pia alijaribu sana kujenga taifa lenye highly centralised state ingawa alikuwa na matatizo sana na wananchi wa Buganda. Like the Ashanti in Ghana, the Baganda wanted a federal form of government, but not because they feared domination by other tribes; they wanted to preserve their "independence" under their kings and virtually secede from the countries of which they were an integral part.
Nkrumah effectively neutralised the Ashanti in central Ghana, and regionalism in northern Ghana among the Dagomba and other ethnic groups, as well as irredentism among the Ewe in the Volta Region in eastern Ghana who wanted to unite with their kinsmen across the border in Togo, although the irredentist movement among them was not as strong as regionalism was among the Ashanti. Nkrumah neutralised all that by establishing a highly centralised state. I am almost sure he would have done the same thing with Zanzibar had he been president of Tanzania. He would not have allowed Zanzibar to exist the way it does today. He would have absorbed it and would not have allowed it to have autonomy. It simply would have become another province of Ghana.
A federal form of government was not an option under Nkrumah. He ruled that out. He emphasised the imperative need for a unitary state for the sake of national unity. And he succeeded, although he continued to face strong oppositon from the Ashanti in the Central Province.
Nyerere pia alifanikiwa sana kujenga taifa lenye umoja under a unitary state, or a highly centralised state, ingawa sisi Watanganyika hatukuwa na tatizo la regionalism.
Tulipopata uhuru, tulikuwa na majimbo saba - Lake Province, Northern Province, Coast Province, Southern Province, Southern Highlands Province which was simply known as the Southern Highlands, Western Province, and Central Province. I remember those days. Lakini hatukuwa na matatizo ya regionalism, although there were some mumblings about the quest for Chagga independence. The biggest threat would have come from the Sukuma, the largest ethnic group in the country who, in terms of numerical preponderance, virtually constituted "a nation within a nation" as they still do today. But they never expressed such sentiments; nor did their kinsmen, the Nyamwezi, another large ethnic entity with whom they could have formed a federation if they seceded from Tanganyika.
A highly centralised state under Nyerere, including the abolition of chiefdoms, saved us.
Tatizo ni kwamba hata tukiwa na serikali ya Muungano ya aina hiyo, a unitary state or a highly centralised state, which is what we claim to have although Zanzibar's autonomous status makes a mockery of that, Wazanzibari bado wataendelea kulalamika na kusema tunawakandamiza na tunawanyonya ingawa ukweli ni kwamba hawana chochote in terms of natural resources which they may claim we are exploiting to the mainland's advantage. It is we, on the mainland, who have the resources in abundance, making the mainland potentially one of the richest parts of Africa in terms of minerals and arable land. We also have plenty of water, rivers
and lakes, and other resources. We don't need Zanzibar for economic reasons. Financially, it is a burden on the mainland. But they existed as a nation before. Therefore they can exist as a nation today if they were to secede. Right now, they are still a part of the Union.
Lakini Wazanzibari wanalalamika katika Muungano huu ambao ni unitary state. Wanasema tunawakandamiza. Kwahiyo, kwa upande wao, a unitary state for the United Republic is not an option. But even a federal form of government is not an acceptable alternative kwa upande wao. Bado watalalamika na kusema serikali ya shirikisho ni serikali ya Watanganyika au Watanzania bara.
Tumebakiwa na nini as a solution? Vunja muungano kama unavyosema.
Lakini tutauvunja kwa njia gani?
Uvunjwe kikatiba kufuatana na sheria. Otherwise it is treason. Lakini hauwezi kuvunjwa kikatiba kufuatana na katiba tuliyo nayo sasa kwa sababu hairuhusu secession or dissolution of the union.
But a federal form of government with extensive devolution of power to the regions may eventually lead to the dissolution of the Union.
Zanzibar is an integral part of the union. Lakini siyo mkoa. Pia siyo nchi katika Muungano. Ikiwa Zanzibar ni nchi, Tanganyika pia bado ni nchi na sisi Watanzania bara tuna haki kuwa na nchi yetu ya Tanganyika. Pande zote mbili zikisisitiza hivyo, hakutakuwa na muungano na hakutakuwa na nchi ya Tanzania. It will be a return to the status quo ante when we had Tanganyika and Zanzibar.
Tupende, tusipende, Wazanzibari watabaki na Uzanzibari wao katika Muungano hata tukiwa na serikali ya shirikisho. Wanajiona ni taifa. Wanasema na wanaamini Zanzibar bado ni nchi.
There are substantive issues concerning the Union which have not been addressed by our leaders, one of them being the structure of the union itself. Tunataka Muungano wa aina gani? A federation or a unitary state? Or a confederation?
Swali lingine ni: Je, ni kweli tunautaka Muungano?
Kuna Wazanzibari ambao hawautaki Muungano. Pia kuna Watanzania bara ambao hawautaki Muungano.
Wananchi waulizwe na waamue ikiwa wanataka tuwe na Muungano au ikiwa wanataka tuuvunje Muungano. Hasa upande wa Zanzibar, they will need an internationally supervised plebiscite to determine whether or not they want to remain in the union because they don't trust the results of any poll conducted by the union government.
But it will never happen. Muungano unaweza kuvunjwa constitutionally. But there will be no provision even in the new constitution which allows secession or dissolution of the union. May be the constitution should be subjected to a referendum ili wapiga kura wasisitize kuwa na provision hiyo, inayoruhusu kuvunja muungano au kujitenga, ikiwa hawautaki muungano.
Na kama nilivyosema katika mchangio wangu kabla ya huu, there are security concerns miongoni mwa viongozi wetu Tanzania bara. They are NOT going to allow Zanzibar to secede. Pan-African interests are irrelevant to them as to whether or not we should continue to have the union. It is nationalism versus Pan-Africanism because security is paramount.
Warioba has articulated that position with regard to the union's existence being inextricably linked with the mainland's security, even if not necessarily in his official capacity as a national leader. Ask him.
The paramountcy of the mainland's security will always feature prominently in any discussion on the future of the Union.
And to be honest with you, I share that concern. If I were in a position to make a decision, I would never allow an outpost of insecurity and instability - only a few miles from the mainland - to threaten the mainland or continue to exist as an independent entity to the detriment of our survival, stability, peace and prosperity. What if Zanzibar - kwa mfano as a result of conflict between Wapemba na Waunguja - were to degenerate into chaos and dissolve in anarchy to become another Somalia only 25 miles from the mainland? They would wreak havoc on us.
I would be equally motivated by nationalism, as some of our leaders on the mainland are, for security reasons, to maintain the Union, although more often than not, I would express my sentiments in Pan-African rhetoric to emphasise the imperative need for unity on a regional and continental scale; knowing full well that my motivation is security of the mainland, with Pan-Africanism being secondary in that context.
Zanzibar should not have its own president. It is not a legal sovereign entity. It submerged its sovereignty in a larger body, Tanzania; so did Tanganyika. Neither is a country with sovereign status. Tanganyika does not exist even as a geographical region. There is Tanzania mainland, instead.
There should be only one president if Tanzania is ideed one country, not two. And that is the president of the United Republic of which Zanzibar is an integral part.
Zanzibar should have its own president and its own government only when it is an independent country and no longer a part of of the Union.
Being an integral part of the Union, Zanzibar should have only regions like mainland Tanzania whose regions don't have their own governments.
We need one government, a federal form of government although, frankly speaking, it is not my favourite, given its inherent capacity to encourage regionalism to the detriment of national unity; it can even encourage secession. But that may be the only option for us in order to save and maintain the Union. A highly centralised state is not necessarily the best in this case because of the union with Zanzibar; but it is for Tanganyika as was the case before our countries united to form Tanzania.
We should try to accommodate Zanzibaris in a federal structure equipped with mechanisms to enable them to ventilate and redress their grievances. It is an arrangement that may dampen and eventually neutralise scessionist sentiments among them.
As a last resort, try confederation, although establishment of a weak confederation may be misconstrued by Zanzibaris who harbour secessionist sentiments as an endorsement of secession.
Asante sana.
Nakubaliana nawe kuhusu umuhimu wa kuwa na serikali moja. Lakini sijui unazungumzia serikali moja ya aina gani. Shirikisho au unitary state?
Tangu nchi zetu zipate uhuru, karibu viongozi wote walisisitiza umuhimu wa kuwa na unitary state. Kwame Nkrumah, Mwalimu Nyerere, Ahmed Sekou Toure, na hata jirani yetu, Mzee Jomo Kenyatta, alisisitiza sana umuhimu wa serikali ya aina hiyo.
Nakumbuka miaka ile wakati kiongozi wa upinzani nchini Kenya, Ronald Ngala, alipopinga sana Kenya kuwa na unitary state. Alisisitiza sana umuhimu wa kuwa na serikali ya shirikisho, shirikisho la majimbo, kwa sababu aliogopa makabila madogo, kwa mfano makabila katika jimbo la Pwani alikotoka, Coast Province, hayatakuwa na usemi katika serikali na nchi ambayo ni highly centralised state. Aliogopa nchi yao itatawaliwa na makabila makubwa, hasa Wakikuyu na Wajaluo.
Majimboism is a phenomenoin that bedevils Kenya unto this day, only in varying degrees, with the Coast Province again, as in the past, being a hotbed of ethnoregional solidarity; so is the Rift Valley, and so is Nyanza Province, a Luo stronghold.
Kwa upande wetu, miongoni mwa matatizo ya Muungano ni Uzanzibari wa Watanzania visiwani. Uzanzibari wao amounts to Zanzibari nationalism, which is anathema to some of us, and a threat to our national integrity.
Hata tukiendelea kuwa na aina ya serikali ambayo ni unitary state, ingawa kuna sehemu ambazo zinaoenekana kama ni federal structures with regard to Zanzibar's autonomous status, na kwahiyo siyo highly centralized state the way Tanganyika was, or the way Ghana was under Nkrumah, Wazanzibari wataendelea kulalamika. Serikali moja haiwezi kutatua tatizo hilo.
There are two solutions: Vunja Muungano kama unavyosema. Au tuwe na serikali ya shirikisho itakayo ruhusu extensive devolution of power to the regions to allay fears of Zanzibaris that they are being dominated, oppressed and exploited by "Tanganyikans."
Tatizo la serikali ya aina hiyo ni kwamba kuna uwezekano wa nchi kuanza kuvunjika pole pole kwa sababu serikali za majimbo naturally tend to fuel regionalism. There also emerges another phenomenon from regionalism, which is ethnonationalism inayotokana na umoja wa makabila katika majimbo hayo yatakayo jiona kama ni "taifa dogo," katika kila jimbo, if we have a federal government which allows extensive autonomy katika majimbo.
Sehemu yetu ya Afrika Mashariki, Kenyatta neutralised regionalism when it posed a threat to national unity. Ronald Ngala's opposition party, the Kenya Democratic Union (KADU), eventually died and its members, including Ngala himself, joined KANU. I remember those days.
Tragically, Kenyatta was not a true nationalist. He was a tribal chauvinist who promoted Kikuyu interests at the expense of others. Kenya became a highly centralised state, ruled by Kenyatta with an iron fist, to preserve, protect and promote Kikuyu interests.
Obote pia alijaribu sana kujenga taifa lenye highly centralised state ingawa alikuwa na matatizo sana na wananchi wa Buganda. Like the Ashanti in Ghana, the Baganda wanted a federal form of government, but not because they feared domination by other tribes; they wanted to preserve their "independence" under their kings and virtually secede from the countries of which they were an integral part.
Nkrumah effectively neutralised the Ashanti in central Ghana, and regionalism in northern Ghana among the Dagomba and other ethnic groups, as well as irredentism among the Ewe in the Volta Region in eastern Ghana who wanted to unite with their kinsmen across the border in Togo, although the irredentist movement among them was not as strong as regionalism was among the Ashanti. Nkrumah neutralised all that by establishing a highly centralised state. I am almost sure he would have done the same thing with Zanzibar had he been president of Tanzania. He would not have allowed Zanzibar to exist the way it does today. He would have absorbed it and would not have allowed it to have autonomy. It simply would have become another province of Ghana.
A federal form of government was not an option under Nkrumah. He ruled that out. He emphasised the imperative need for a unitary state for the sake of national unity. And he succeeded, although he continued to face strong oppositon from the Ashanti in the Central Province.
Nyerere pia alifanikiwa sana kujenga taifa lenye umoja under a unitary state, or a highly centralised state, ingawa sisi Watanganyika hatukuwa na tatizo la regionalism.
Tulipopata uhuru, tulikuwa na majimbo saba - Lake Province, Northern Province, Coast Province, Southern Province, Southern Highlands Province which was simply known as the Southern Highlands, Western Province, and Central Province. I remember those days. Lakini hatukuwa na matatizo ya regionalism, although there were some mumblings about the quest for Chagga independence. The biggest threat would have come from the Sukuma, the largest ethnic group in the country who, in terms of numerical preponderance, virtually constituted "a nation within a nation" as they still do today. But they never expressed such sentiments; nor did their kinsmen, the Nyamwezi, another large ethnic entity with whom they could have formed a federation if they seceded from Tanganyika.
A highly centralised state under Nyerere, including the abolition of chiefdoms, saved us.
Tatizo ni kwamba hata tukiwa na serikali ya Muungano ya aina hiyo, a unitary state or a highly centralised state, which is what we claim to have although Zanzibar's autonomous status makes a mockery of that, Wazanzibari bado wataendelea kulalamika na kusema tunawakandamiza na tunawanyonya ingawa ukweli ni kwamba hawana chochote in terms of natural resources which they may claim we are exploiting to the mainland's advantage. It is we, on the mainland, who have the resources in abundance, making the mainland potentially one of the richest parts of Africa in terms of minerals and arable land. We also have plenty of water, rivers
and lakes, and other resources. We don't need Zanzibar for economic reasons. Financially, it is a burden on the mainland. But they existed as a nation before. Therefore they can exist as a nation today if they were to secede. Right now, they are still a part of the Union.
Lakini Wazanzibari wanalalamika katika Muungano huu ambao ni unitary state. Wanasema tunawakandamiza. Kwahiyo, kwa upande wao, a unitary state for the United Republic is not an option. But even a federal form of government is not an acceptable alternative kwa upande wao. Bado watalalamika na kusema serikali ya shirikisho ni serikali ya Watanganyika au Watanzania bara.
Tumebakiwa na nini as a solution? Vunja muungano kama unavyosema.
Lakini tutauvunja kwa njia gani?
Uvunjwe kikatiba kufuatana na sheria. Otherwise it is treason. Lakini hauwezi kuvunjwa kikatiba kufuatana na katiba tuliyo nayo sasa kwa sababu hairuhusu secession or dissolution of the union.
But a federal form of government with extensive devolution of power to the regions may eventually lead to the dissolution of the Union.
Zanzibar is an integral part of the union. Lakini siyo mkoa. Pia siyo nchi katika Muungano. Ikiwa Zanzibar ni nchi, Tanganyika pia bado ni nchi na sisi Watanzania bara tuna haki kuwa na nchi yetu ya Tanganyika. Pande zote mbili zikisisitiza hivyo, hakutakuwa na muungano na hakutakuwa na nchi ya Tanzania. It will be a return to the status quo ante when we had Tanganyika and Zanzibar.
Tupende, tusipende, Wazanzibari watabaki na Uzanzibari wao katika Muungano hata tukiwa na serikali ya shirikisho. Wanajiona ni taifa. Wanasema na wanaamini Zanzibar bado ni nchi.
There are substantive issues concerning the Union which have not been addressed by our leaders, one of them being the structure of the union itself. Tunataka Muungano wa aina gani? A federation or a unitary state? Or a confederation?
Swali lingine ni: Je, ni kweli tunautaka Muungano?
Kuna Wazanzibari ambao hawautaki Muungano. Pia kuna Watanzania bara ambao hawautaki Muungano.
Wananchi waulizwe na waamue ikiwa wanataka tuwe na Muungano au ikiwa wanataka tuuvunje Muungano. Hasa upande wa Zanzibar, they will need an internationally supervised plebiscite to determine whether or not they want to remain in the union because they don't trust the results of any poll conducted by the union government.
But it will never happen. Muungano unaweza kuvunjwa constitutionally. But there will be no provision even in the new constitution which allows secession or dissolution of the union. May be the constitution should be subjected to a referendum ili wapiga kura wasisitize kuwa na provision hiyo, inayoruhusu kuvunja muungano au kujitenga, ikiwa hawautaki muungano.
Na kama nilivyosema katika mchangio wangu kabla ya huu, there are security concerns miongoni mwa viongozi wetu Tanzania bara. They are NOT going to allow Zanzibar to secede. Pan-African interests are irrelevant to them as to whether or not we should continue to have the union. It is nationalism versus Pan-Africanism because security is paramount.
Warioba has articulated that position with regard to the union's existence being inextricably linked with the mainland's security, even if not necessarily in his official capacity as a national leader. Ask him.
The paramountcy of the mainland's security will always feature prominently in any discussion on the future of the Union.
And to be honest with you, I share that concern. If I were in a position to make a decision, I would never allow an outpost of insecurity and instability - only a few miles from the mainland - to threaten the mainland or continue to exist as an independent entity to the detriment of our survival, stability, peace and prosperity. What if Zanzibar - kwa mfano as a result of conflict between Wapemba na Waunguja - were to degenerate into chaos and dissolve in anarchy to become another Somalia only 25 miles from the mainland? They would wreak havoc on us.
I would be equally motivated by nationalism, as some of our leaders on the mainland are, for security reasons, to maintain the Union, although more often than not, I would express my sentiments in Pan-African rhetoric to emphasise the imperative need for unity on a regional and continental scale; knowing full well that my motivation is security of the mainland, with Pan-Africanism being secondary in that context.
Zanzibar should not have its own president. It is not a legal sovereign entity. It submerged its sovereignty in a larger body, Tanzania; so did Tanganyika. Neither is a country with sovereign status. Tanganyika does not exist even as a geographical region. There is Tanzania mainland, instead.
There should be only one president if Tanzania is ideed one country, not two. And that is the president of the United Republic of which Zanzibar is an integral part.
Zanzibar should have its own president and its own government only when it is an independent country and no longer a part of of the Union.
Being an integral part of the Union, Zanzibar should have only regions like mainland Tanzania whose regions don't have their own governments.
We need one government, a federal form of government although, frankly speaking, it is not my favourite, given its inherent capacity to encourage regionalism to the detriment of national unity; it can even encourage secession. But that may be the only option for us in order to save and maintain the Union. A highly centralised state is not necessarily the best in this case because of the union with Zanzibar; but it is for Tanganyika as was the case before our countries united to form Tanzania.
We should try to accommodate Zanzibaris in a federal structure equipped with mechanisms to enable them to ventilate and redress their grievances. It is an arrangement that may dampen and eventually neutralise scessionist sentiments among them.
As a last resort, try confederation, although establishment of a weak confederation may be misconstrued by Zanzibaris who harbour secessionist sentiments as an endorsement of secession.
Wakuu zangu nadhani ni vizuri sana tusikie somo hili kutoka kwa wataalam kama Marehemu Profesa Haroub Othman.. Hizi habari nyingi za kulalia upande mmoja bila kuwa neutral ni vigumu sana mtu kuelimika maana tujiulize hivi ZNP ilipoundwa ni nani alikuwa amekalia kiti cha IKULU?.. na chama hiki kilikuwa cha nani?.Je ASP ilizaliwa lini na kuna tofauti ya miaka mingapi baina yao..Nini zilikuwa tofauti zao na kadhalika.
Hata hivyo ktk mahusiano ya Tanganyika na Visiwani nadhani Profesa kayazungumzia vizuri sana ingawa sii yote yaliyomo..Nawaomba someni kipande hiki kisha tutaendelea na mjadal. nawaomba someni with an open mind halafu tutaendelea na mjadala wa Jussa...Bofya
Hata hivyo ktk mahusiano ya Tanganyika na Visiwani nadhani Profesa kayazungumzia vizuri sana ingawa sii yote yaliyomo..Nawaomba someni kipande hiki kisha tutaendelea na mjadal. nawaomba someni with an open mind halafu tutaendelea na mjadala wa Jussa...Bofya
mkomatembo
JF-Expert Member
- Dec 17, 2011
- 1,477
- 818
Mnamchokoa FAizaFoxy, kwa sababu anawatingisha ! WaTAnzania ni wajinga hilo halina ubishi! tuwaangalie wenzetu waKenya walivo na msimamo! nani atawachezea ! sisi kitu kikipanda tupo kimya! keshokutwa tutashuhudia TANESCO wakipandisha bei za umeme kwa asilimia 155 sisi tutakaa kimya ! kama sio ujinga kitu gani ??? FAiza amezema kweli !
Watu wanapiga kelele halafu kimya! angalia nchi za kiarabu watu ambao walikuwa siku zote wakidharaulika na kuonwa wajinga! wamesimama kidete!
Nawashangaa sana Wazanzibar! Zanzibar kiuchumi bila Tanganyika ni Zero Uchumi wa Zanzibar in mdogo kuliko wa wilaya ya Tarime, na kelele zao hazishi simple answer wajitoe kwenye muungano tunaipose taxi regime tuone. Waarabu hawatakuja kuwasaidia wana matatizo kwao.
Mgalanjuka 
sie twaona raha kweli kutawaliwa na muarabu ambae alikua na nia njema kabisa kuliko utawala Nyerere ambao ulikua na nia mbaya!! Afu sisi urojo tulokuwa soft tumewatawala wabara mpaka yule mbunge wa chadema alishindwa kuvumilia, Shein ana mamlaka sawa na kikwete lol!! Nani wajinga sasa? Mgalanjuka umefuliaaaaa, 2015 saiv tunalilia rais wa muungano atoke visiwani, haya weeeee!!!!!
Murrah naomba unitajie Bara inaisaidia vipi zenji kiuchumi? Acheni kujidanganya, Bara kazi yenu kuchukua hela zetu afu mwajisifu kuwa mnatusaidia!! Ngoja nkupe habari, Bandari ya zenjy imejengwa kwa pesa za zenjy hakuna shilingi ya bara ilotumika, tunapanua uwanja wa ndege kwa hela zetu wenyewe, kila cha zanzibar kinafanywa na wazenjy, tena bila bara sisi tutapata shida vipi wakati hamtusaidii chochote? Hebu yatajeni ambayo bara wanasaidia zenjy
sie twaona raha kweli kutawaliwa na muarabu ambae alikua na nia njema kabisa kuliko utawala Nyerere ambao ulikua na nia mbaya!! Afu sisi urojo tulokuwa soft tumewatawala wabara mpaka yule mbunge wa chadema alishindwa kuvumilia, Shein ana mamlaka sawa na kikwete lol!! Nani wajinga sasa? Mgalanjuka umefuliaaaaa, 2015 saiv tunalilia rais wa muungano atoke visiwani, haya weeeee!!!!! Murrah naomba unitajie Bara inaisaidia vipi zenji kiuchumi? Acheni kujidanganya, Bara kazi yenu kuchukua hela zetu afu mwajisifu kuwa mnatusaidia!! Ngoja nkupe habari, Bandari ya zenjy imejengwa kwa pesa za zenjy hakuna shilingi ya bara ilotumika, tunapanua uwanja wa ndege kwa hela zetu wenyewe, kila cha zanzibar kinafanywa na wazenjy, tena bila bara sisi tutapata shida vipi wakati hamtusaidii chochote? Hebu yatajeni ambayo bara wanasaidia zenjy
Masanja
JF-Expert Member
- Aug 1, 2007
- 4,844
- 8,953
Wengi wa wale wanaotaka kuvunja muungano ni wale wajukuu wa Sultan waliotelekezwa. Bado wanakumbuka tende! Umeshaona wabantu akina Karume na wengineo wakitaka kuvunja muungano?
Hao dawa yao ni moja..wale wanaojifanya kulalamika sana kwamba tuvunje muungano tunawapa madaraka..uwaziri..au ubalozi in those countries...located in the middle of nowhere......uenyekiti wa TANAPA..etc...si unaona Maalim Seif kapiga kelele weee....where is he now?
Endeleeni hivo hivo...we know how to handle you..hamtusumbui....
Kama alivyosema Mkandara na wengine humu: Zanzibar ikiwa nchi huru haitatawalika...maana wale wenye sura za kihindi na kiarabu wanajiona superior race kwa wenzao wabantu......so they always think they are Arabs more than Arabs themselves! Muungano udumu na udumu! I am a strong supporter of this Muungano. Narudia kama kuna tatizo lilekebishwe..siyo hizi kelele za kutuletea waarabu wa Oman hapa!
Hata kama Magamba siwakubali..ila kwa hili la Muungano..Pamoja sana!
Hao dawa yao ni moja..wale wanaojifanya kulalamika sana kwamba tuvunje muungano tunawapa madaraka..uwaziri..au ubalozi in those countries...located in the middle of nowhere......uenyekiti wa TANAPA..etc...si unaona Maalim Seif kapiga kelele weee....where is he now?
Endeleeni hivo hivo...we know how to handle you..hamtusumbui....
Kama alivyosema Mkandara na wengine humu: Zanzibar ikiwa nchi huru haitatawalika...maana wale wenye sura za kihindi na kiarabu wanajiona superior race kwa wenzao wabantu......so they always think they are Arabs more than Arabs themselves! Muungano udumu na udumu! I am a strong supporter of this Muungano. Narudia kama kuna tatizo lilekebishwe..siyo hizi kelele za kutuletea waarabu wa Oman hapa!
Hata kama Magamba siwakubali..ila kwa hili la Muungano..Pamoja sana!
Masanja
JF-Expert Member
- Aug 1, 2007
- 4,844
- 8,953
Mgalanjuka
Murrah naomba unitajie Bara inaisaidia vipi zenji kiuchumi? Acheni kujidanganya, Bara kazi yenu kuchukua hela zetu afu mwajisifu kuwa mnatusaidia!! Ngoja nkupe habari, Bandari ya zenjy imejengwa kwa pesa za zenjy hakuna shilingi ya bara ilotumika, tunapanua uwanja wa ndege kwa hela zetu wenyewe, kila cha zanzibar kinafanywa na wazenjy, tena bila bara sisi tutapata shida vipi wakati hamtusaidii chochote? Hebu yatajeni ambayo bara wanasaidia zenjy
On this I have no problem. Kama mnataka raisi wa Muungano mmpewe! I have no problem kabisa na nitampigia kura (as long as ana quality za kuwa kiongozi wa nchi yetu). Ila kuondoka humu kwenye hii ndoa hamuondoki ng`o! We know your motives! Africa tuna matatizo ya kutosha...hatuhitaji mengine sasa ya kuletewa waarabu! Let them remain in their countries. Tutashirikiana nao kama any other country.
FairPlayer
JF-Expert Member
- Feb 27, 2006
- 4,145
- 716
Hapa ngoja nipite tu. Maana hawa watu wavivu wanaotaka mtambo wa shira na mwarabu akikopwa hasilipwe hawa.....
Masanja kwanini wataka muungano ubaki? Mana wenzako wengi wa kibara wataka kuuvunja! Kama una chuki na mwarabu ungewatoa egypt, algeria, libya na wengine walioko Africa, wewe inakuuma nini zenjy pakiwa na sultan? Kwani atakuja kuwaongoza wabara ama wa visiwani?
Na imeongea about Seif, kwa uloyasema ata mimi nakubali kwamba alikua anapiga kelele kwa saaana, lakini Seif huyo kapewa sifa na mataifa ya nje kwa kuhakikisha Amani ktk visiwa hali yakuwa uchaguzi ulichakachuliwa,,,,,, mambo kidogo kidogo, kashaingia madarakani baada ya miaka kadhaa urais utapokonywa kutoka kwa CCM kisha apo ndo mtaona!
Visiwani tayari tumetatua matatizo ya siasa sasa yamekuja Bongo, CHADEMA na CCM! mapigano makali!
Afu masanja Znz hakuna hayo uloyasema kuwa watu wajiona waarabu na kuzarau wabantu wa znz, si kweli, hujui kitu, waznz saiv lao 1 wote, muungano uvunjwe, na kamuulize Sitta je maoni ya uvunjwe muungano ni waarabu watupu walochangia!!! Usidanganye watu, znz watu hatubaguani kisa rangi ama kabila, kila 1 anaelewa kuwa znz ni mchanganyiko wa different culture na ndo kitu unique kulichopo visiwani umo na ndio kinachowafanya waipende nchi yao!
Na imeongea about Seif, kwa uloyasema ata mimi nakubali kwamba alikua anapiga kelele kwa saaana, lakini Seif huyo kapewa sifa na mataifa ya nje kwa kuhakikisha Amani ktk visiwa hali yakuwa uchaguzi ulichakachuliwa,,,,,, mambo kidogo kidogo, kashaingia madarakani baada ya miaka kadhaa urais utapokonywa kutoka kwa CCM kisha apo ndo mtaona!
Visiwani tayari tumetatua matatizo ya siasa sasa yamekuja Bongo, CHADEMA na CCM! mapigano makali!
Afu masanja Znz hakuna hayo uloyasema kuwa watu wajiona waarabu na kuzarau wabantu wa znz, si kweli, hujui kitu, waznz saiv lao 1 wote, muungano uvunjwe, na kamuulize Sitta je maoni ya uvunjwe muungano ni waarabu watupu walochangia!!! Usidanganye watu, znz watu hatubaguani kisa rangi ama kabila, kila 1 anaelewa kuwa znz ni mchanganyiko wa different culture na ndo kitu unique kulichopo visiwani umo na ndio kinachowafanya waipende nchi yao!
FP wewe ukituita wavivu, urojo ama ubuyu sisi hatujali. Kilicho muhimu kwetu ni kuhakikisha tunafanya mambo yetu wenyewd bila kusumbuliwa, na tutabakisha undugu na ustaarabu wetu pamoja na imani, wakristo na waislam visiwani wana ustaarabu na imani na watu wote wanaishi kama ndugu haswa linapokuja suala la Uzanzibari! Tofauti na bara, hakuna ustaarabu wala heshima, na ndio maana wengine waja zanzibar
Hilo deni kateni kwenye mamilioni ya dola za kimarekani mulizozichukua Zanzibar wakati wa vita vya Kagera na baada ya vita (ile miezi 18 Nyerere aliposema itakuwa migumu), kama hazitoshi munaweza kukata katika mchango wa Zanzibar katika kuundwa kwa BOT, kama hazitoshi basi tukae chini tupigiane hesabu (with interest) na tuone nani anadaiwa
Papa hajasoma shule maskini!! Hivi dubai itashindwa kuibeba Tz yenye watu 43m? kwani idadi ya watu ndio yenye kuwezesha ubebaji? Mbona watu wengine machizi humu!
Kuhusu ilo deni la bilioni 50, itabidi sasa tukae tuanze kupigiana hesabu tu azodaiana, naona kama bajeti yenu ya tanganyika tutaichukua sisi ili itulipe, tunatakiwa tujue muungano wa mkataba uliisha lini halafu tukae tupige hizo hesabu sasa, tutawalipa lakini msije kushindwa nyinyi tu kutulipa
Btw just imagine kama serikali ya SMZ ingetaka kui sue TANESCO for 3 months without power, tupige hesabu serikali imepoteza pesa ngapi, wafanyabiashara nao then serikali itoe compensation, i think Tanesco ingefilisika! Huo umeme wa kutoka bar kuja visiwani tumetumia hela zetu wenyewe! Hivi mnataka kututisha katika suala la pesa? Mshatumia hela nyingi za visiwani nyinyi!
kwani idadi ya watu ndio yenye kuwezesha ubebaji? Mbona watu wengine machizi humu! Kuhusu ilo deni la bilioni 50, itabidi sasa tukae tuanze kupigiana hesabu tu azodaiana, naona kama bajeti yenu ya tanganyika tutaichukua sisi ili itulipe,
tunatakiwa tujue muungano wa mkataba uliisha lini halafu tukae tupige hizo hesabu sasa, tutawalipa lakini msije kushindwa nyinyi tu kutulipaBtw just imagine kama serikali ya SMZ ingetaka kui sue TANESCO for 3 months without power, tupige hesabu serikali imepoteza pesa ngapi, wafanyabiashara nao then serikali itoe compensation, i think Tanesco ingefilisika! Huo umeme wa kutoka bar kuja visiwani tumetumia hela zetu wenyewe! Hivi mnataka kututisha katika suala la pesa? Mshatumia hela nyingi za visiwani nyinyi!
Black Devil
Member
- Mar 16, 2011
- 58
- 8
Yaliyomo katika hiyo ripoti yanaanza kumwagwa hadharani.
Uchangiaji katika gharama za Muungano na mgawanyo wa mapato yanayotokana na Muungano
Je,mtu anaposema Zanzibar haichangii gharama za uendeshaji wa vyombo na taasisi za Muungano kwa sababu tu Serikali ya Zanzibar haitoi fungu la fedha na kuliingizakatika Serikali ya Muungano, Tanganyika ambayo hata Serikali haina inachangiavipi na kiasi gani? Ikiwa mchango wake unatolewa na Serikali ya Muungano, kwani hii siyo serikali ya shirika ambapo Zanzibar ni mbia? Vipi basi Zanzibar itakiwe ichangie mara mbili kwa kutumia hadhi mbili tofauti? Na ikichangia(iwapo itachangia), ina uhakika upi kwamba itakachotoa hakitatumiwa na Serikaliya Muungano kwa shughuli za Tanganyika zisizo za Muungano ikitumia mamlaka yake kwa madhumuni hayo? Vivyo hivyo kwa mapato yatokanayo na vyombo na taasisi zaMuungano, tunajua Zanzibar inapata mgao wake na kiasi chake kimewekwa wazi (ingawa kwa sasa ni mapato ya TRA yanayokusanywa Zanzibar; na pia gawio kutoka Benki Kuu(BOT) ambalo nalo kiwango chake hakikubaliki kwa Wazanzibari). Zipo mamlaka nyengine za Kimuungano zinazoingiza mapato na ambazo Zanzibar haipewi chochote kutoka kwake zikiwemo TCRA, TCAA, TPC, TTCL, na TPDC kwa kutaja chache. Masuala zaidi yanakuja: Yale mapato yanayobaki katika Serikali ya Muungano, kuna kipicha kuonyesha mpaka wa matumizi yake kwa Muungano na kwa shughuli za Tanganyika zisizo za Muungano? Uadilifu na uwajibikaji wa matumizi yatokanayo na mgao huu wa mapato utaonekana vipi?
Ukweli hasa kuhusiana na suala la uchangiaji katika gharama za Muungano na mgawanyo wamapato yanayotokana na Muungano ulipatikana kufuatia kuundwa kwa Tume ya Pamojaya Fedha (Joint Finance Commission) ambayo iliajiri wataalamu (consultantskutoka taasisi inayoheshimika duniani ya PriceWaterhouseCoopers kuangalia sualahilo. Ripoti ya Wataalamu ilitolewa Agosti 2006 na kufanyiwa kazi na Serikaliya Mapinduzi ya Zanzibar lakini hadi leo imekaliwa na Serikali ya Muungano bilashaka baada ya kutoa picha isiyopendeza kwa upande wa Tanganyika kuhusiana nahali halisi ya vipi uendeshaji wa Muungano ulivyo. Wataalamu wa Kampuni yaPriceWaterhouseCoopers walifanya uchambuzi halisi wa mambo yepi ni ya Muunganona yepi ni ya Tanganyika na yepi ni ya Zanzibar na gharama za uendeshaji wakila moja. Baada ya orodha kupatikana, watafiti wakatafuta matumizi halisi yabajeti ya vifungu hivyo kwa muda wa kiasi cha miaka 10 iliyopita. Watafiti hao walikwenda mbali zaidi ya hapo na kukusanya mapato yote kwa kila kifungu cha mambo ya Muungano halisi. Mwishowe, wakalinganisha iwapo mapato yanakidhi matumizi au yana nakisi (upungufu)?
Kilichojitokezani kwamba kwa mwaka wa fedha 2003/2004 pekee, matumizihalisi kwa vifungu vya Muungano yalikuwa Shs. 537,258.4 bilioni ambayo ni asilimia20 tu ya bajeti yote ya Serikali ya Muungano kwa mwaka huo. Mapato halisi yavyanzo vya mapato vinavyotokana na mambo ya Muungano kwa mwaka huo yalikuwa niShs. 1,030,826.1 bilioni. Tofauti ya vifungu hivyo vimetoa ziada ya Shs.493,567.7 bilioni kwa mwaka huo. Ziada hii haiingizi mapato yanayotokana na misaada kutoka nje au mikopo. Ziada hii hutumika kwa shughuli za Tanganyika zisizo za Muungano.
Ukweli huu unaonyesha hata kama kungekuwa na Serikali tatu kusingekuwa na haja yoyotekwa Serikali ya Zanzibar na ile ya Tanganyika kulipia fedha za ziada kamawahusika watatunza na kuweka kumbukumbu sahihi za mapato na matumizi ya mamboya Muungano halisi badala ya yale ya Tanganyika kuchanganywa na ya Muungano.Mambo yasiyokuwa ya Muungano ya Tanganyika yalipotengwa nje ya yale ya Muungano, gharama za mambo ya Muungano zimejidhihirisha wazi bila ya kujificha na kuonesha kwamba zinaweza kulipiwa kupitia mapato ya mambo ya Muungano pekee na ziada kubaki. Lakini hili limekuwarahisi kwa kukubali ukweli kwamba kuna mafungu matatu ya mapato na matumizi katika Serikali zetu mbili. Mafungu hayo ni la SMZ kwa mambo yake yasiyo mamboya Muungano, la Serikali ya Muungano kwa mambo ya Muungano, na la Serikali ya Muungano inayofanya kazi za Tanganyika kwa mambo yasiyokuwa ya Muungano.
Inapatikana yote hapa ZanziNews : Warka wa Maalim Seif kwa tume ya kuratibu maoni ya katiba
Msomaji kama unaweza kuipata hiyo ripoti, au kama kuna mtu /invisible ataipata aimwage hapa JF, hii itasaidia kuona hali halisi ya muungano wa mazingaombwe unavyoendeshwa na tutaacha kutegemea ushabiki na jazba tunapojadili suala nyeti la Muungano wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar na kiini macho/ mazingaombwe/ usiri na ubabaishaji,usanii na ujanja kilichodumu kwa miaka.
Jamani haka kazanzibar si tukaache tuone hata kama katafika hata mwaka mmoja na hawa wahindi na waarabu wanaowadanganya kuwa nao ni matajiri. I know Jussa in personal, thus am confident to suggest that he is a populist and simple minded young/amateur politician whose sight cant go beyond one centimeter in thinking. Interestingly am just wondering a kind of degree of the so-called LAW he posseses (Amesoma wapi? uarabuni? India? km UDSM lazima ana PASS degree, trust me pls)
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