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Diaspora inawezaje kuisaidia nchi?

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by MwanaFalsafa1, Apr 11, 2010.

  1. MwanaFalsafa1

    MwanaFalsafa1 JF-Expert Member

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    Uki zingatia kuna wanaJF wengi tu ambao ni diaspora nadhani thread hii itagusa wengi. Swala linalo endelea sasa la dual citizenship(uraia wa nchi mbili) imenifanya nikae nitafakari jinsi haswa diaspora inavyo isaidia au inavyo weza kuisadia nchi.

    Kwanza tuanze na swala moja. Mpaka sasa diaspora ya Tanzania imeisaidiaje Tanzania? Siyo kwama nasema hawaja isaidia....la hasha. Ila katika kuchunguza chunguza sija fanikiwa kujui diaspora yetu imeisaidiae mpaka sasa. Labda watu wenyewe wa diaspora wanaweza kusema hivi ndivyo diaspora ilivyo isaidia nchi mpaka sasa. Tuelimishane.

    Mimi naona kikubwa kita kacho saidia diaspora yetu kutumika ipasavyo ni kujua tuna diaspora ya aina gani. Kama unavyo jua diasporas ni tofauti katika nchi na nchi. Tunge kuwa na njia ya kujua kitakwimu kwamba diaspora yetu kuna watu wa aina hii na hii na hii inge saidia sana. Kama % fulani ya diaspora yetu ni wasomi tujue, kama % fulani ya diaspora wanafanya manual labor tujue. Mfano mzuri ni Wafilipino. Wao asilimia kubwa ya diaspora yao wanaenda kufanya kazi kama za uhousegirl na udereva katika nchi kama Japan na UAE. Ila kwa ajilini ina julikana kabisa kwamba diaspora yao ni ya aina gani imesaidia nchi na hawa mahousegirl na madereva wameliingizia taifa lao pesa nyingi za kigeni pamoja na kupunguza mzigo wa ajira.

    Kwa nionavyo kwa Tanzania, na I could be wrong. Kama nime kosea naweza rekebshwa. Majority ya diaspora yetu ina include makundi haya.
    a)Watu walio zamia nchi zingine kujaribu bahati yao
    b)Watu wanaofanya manual labor
    c)Wasomi wa Kitanzania ambao aidha walisomea huko waka amua kubaki au wasomi waliotoka Tanzania kwenda ktafuta mafau makubwa zaidi nje.
    d)Wafanya biashara wa kati(medium scale businesspeople).

    Kama kuna makundi mengine sija yaorodhesha samahani mtani samehe na kuni saidia.

    Mimi nadhani kundi linalo weza kusaidia taifa kwa haraka na impact kubwa zaidi ni kundi la wasomi na wafanya biashara wa kati. Siyo kusema hayo makundi mengine hawana nafasi ya kusaidia nchi bali ni kwa sababu kwa nchi masikini kama Tanzania nadhani ina hitaji resource kubwa zaidi ya wasomi na wazalendo wenye uwezo wa kuwekeza kwenye sekta mbali mbali.

    a)Wasomi: Nchi yoyote duniani iwe masikini au tajiri it's biggest resource ni wasomi wake. Hawa wasomi wa Kitanzania kwenye diaspora wanabidi wapewe incentives za kurudi nyumbani. Hawa wanaweza kuleta mabadiliko makubwa sana kwa sababu waakuja na elimu na pia fikra zilizo panuka zaidi kutokana na experience ya kuishi nje. Kama kweli serikali ina nia nadhani isi kazanie swala la dual citizenship bali ijikite katika kushawishi wasomi wa nchi yao waliopo nje warudi nyumbani. Wasomi hawa the can be the change!

    b)Wafanyabiashara: Wata leta nini? Capital and skills. Wata leta pesa na kuwekeza kwenye uchumi wa nchi yao kitu kitakacho wafanya wajione wana stake kubwa zaidi kwenye maendeleo ya nchi yao. Pia wataleta business skills ambazo maybe kwa Tanzania hatuna. Kundi hili siyo lazima wahamasishwe kurudi kama ilivyo kundi la wasomi ila wahamasishwe kuwekeza Tanzania kwa wingi zaidi. Pia hii itasaidia wabia wao waliopo Tanzania wawe na business connections na nchi alipo huyo diaspora. Simple exchange of capital and skills. Hawa wakipewa dual citizenship naelewa as long as they know nafasi wanazo weza kushika kwenye ofisi za nchi zipo limited.

    Nadhani kila Mtanzania aliyepo nje bado ana nafasi ya kuitumikia taifa lake kwa namna moja au nyingine. Ila kwa maoni yangu tu nimeona hayo makundi mawili niliyo ongelea hapo juu yana nafasi kubwa zaidi ya kuisaidia nchi kama Tanzania which is and seems to always be in a political and economic crisis. Najua kuna wengi(haswa wale wa diaspora) ambao hawata kubaliana na nilicho kiandika but ndivyo nionavyo mambo na nasimamie mawazo yangu.
     
  2. Chapakazi

    Chapakazi JF-Expert Member

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    The issue for me, is not how to help, but why bother!! Kwa nini mimi kama diaspora nisipewe incentives kama 'foreign investors'? Kwa nini nisipewe 5 years za tax holiday kama foreigners? I haven't been keeping up with this diaspora debate, labda wameanza kutoa hizi 'special offers' kwa diaspora pia. But i believe, kama unataka walio nje wachangie, wape nafasi sawa kama foreign investors!
     
  3. m

    mmakonde JF-Expert Member

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    Usijali sana na diaspora,ni ubabaishaji mtupu.
    Kwa Uk,wengi ni ulaji tu,wengi wanatafuta connection na influence,ili siku moja wakirudi nyumbani wafaidike.
    Kila mtu anajua hili,diaspora hawatasaidia lolote,sana wanaweza kutumiwa na mafisadi wetu kuremit pesa azo account ULAYA.

    Kuna mtu namfahamu yuko mstari wa mbele CCM na diaspora London,anayo mediocre MBA inayotolewa na vyuo vya wahindi London.
    Anaamini akipiga picha na elites wa CCM/Serikali wanaokuja shopping London,itamsaidia akirudi bongo kutafuta kazi.
    Hakuna ambae ni CCM damu London,wengi ni kutafuta maisha tu.
     
  4. consigliori

    consigliori JF-Expert Member

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    Mtoto, unaonekana kama umeanza kuichukia nchi yako, wewe kama ni diaspora na unamafweza ya kuja kuwekeza home njoo bana na sisi wa TZ wenzio tunaosota huku tupate japo vibarua, this is your country man you have to BOTHER.
     
  5. MwanaFalsafa1

    MwanaFalsafa1 JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu kama ulisoma post yangu yote utaona nilitaja sehemu kuhusu incentives. Ndiyo incentives ni muhimu lakini nadhani incentive kubwa zaidi ni uzalendo wa kusaidia nchi yako. Incentive kubwa ni kujua kwamba hamna maendeleo bila sacrifice. Incentive kubwa ni kujaribu kuwa part of the change instead of only preaching it. Na kama wewe ni Mtanzania sidhani kama una hitaji kupewa incentives kama za non-citizen ili kuja kuwekeza nchini mwako. Kwani mkuu Watanzania wanaoishi Tanzania na kuwekeza wana pewa incentives kama za foreign investors? Kwa nini utaki kuwa treated kama mgeni nchini mwako mwenyewe?
     
  6. MwanaFalsafa1

    MwanaFalsafa1 JF-Expert Member

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    I see your point mkuu. Lakini pia I believe kwamba kwenye diaspora hakuwezi kukosekana walau wachache wenyewe kutaka kuisaidia nchi. Hao wachache wenye nia ndiyo tunao wataka siyo lazima wote.
     
  7. s

    skasuku Senior Member

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    MwanaFalsafa1 swali na maoni yako ni mazuri. Je umejaribu kufikiria kama sisi Wa-Tanzania tunayo roho au hata nia yakusaidia nchi? Hapa ninamaanisha wa-Tanzania walio ndani ya nchi. Kwasababu ukiangalia tuna wasomi wengi ambao wapo ndani ya nchi ila wengi wao ni "selfish".

    Labda kabla yakutatua tatizo lakuisaidia nchi - from diaspora, tuangalie je kiini cha hili tatizo lipo ndani ya nchi?

    food for thought!
     
  8. MwanaFalsafa1

    MwanaFalsafa1 JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu tatizo la ubinafsi lipo hata nyumbani. Sababu kuu ya kulenga diaspora kwenye thread hii ni kwa saabu najua daispora wengi tu wanao ishia kulalamika kila siku but they do nothing to change anything(siyo wote). Utakuta mtu kakalia masters lakini anafanya kazi za "kubeba maboksi" at the same time ana lalamika kuhusu hali ya nyumbani. Ninacho jaribu kuencourage diaspora ni to stop talking the talk and start walking the walk.
     
  9. Chapakazi

    Chapakazi JF-Expert Member

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    1. The issue sio kuwa treated kama mgeni katika nchi yako. The issue ni kwamba kwa nini wao wapewe a different treatment wakati we bring the same thing on the table. Kwa nini mimi nilipe 50% tax kwenye gari wakati yeye anaruhusiwa kuingiza moja bure? What does that tell you? If the govt can afford to forego the tax income from foreigners (for 5 yrs), they shld also afford to forego the same tax for me for an equivalent time period!! Do u understand? The govt has decided to forego a certain amount of income from foreigners. There is two things they can do:
    A. Forego the same amount for me; or
    B. If they only have a fixed amount which they can forego, then they shld give priority to 'diasporas'

    2. We live in a globalised world. Mambo ya kung'ang'ania sijui Tz ni nchi yangu, so i have to sacrifice my life for it, yamepitwa na wakati! it's about time you wake up and realise kuwa i can invest my money anywhere in the world. Tz is just a country even if its my homeland. At the end of the day, it will not feed my family nor school my children. That is my responsibility. So, like a prudent investor, i will look for the best offer in the market and Tz like any other country, shld do its best to attract me. And sir (with utmost respect) stop preaching all this bull*** la uzalendo to me. Kumbuka, pesa ni yangu, na ni mimi nimetoa jasho langu kuipata! Tz didn't help while i stayed up all night studying, nor when i had to work to pay my fees. Therefore I owe nothing to Tz!! Am tired of this uzalendo bull***! Get over it! Kama sisi ni wazalendo kweli, mwambie rais ataje hela anayopata kwenye kila safari au wabunge wanaopata 100,000tsh per day huku minimum wage ikiwa 50,000Tsh per month!!. U sound like kibaraka wa CCM when u mention uzalendo! Uzalendo only works when we have a govt by the ppl which work for the ppl! I dont think we have that yet!

    3. WaTz wanaoishi Tz na kuamka asubuhi kila siku kufanya kazi...wanaibiwa! The fruit of their taxes do not account for their labour!

    4. What do u mean by there can't be change w/out sacrifice? What change are we talking about here? I thought the discussion was on diaspora helping with development of the country!! i dont see cany change required in that! There is a difference btwn developing and changing! I think your statement is wrong on this point!
     
  10. Chapakazi

    Chapakazi JF-Expert Member

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    Tz is my country only for passport matters! Lakini kwa ishu nyingine....i dont even mention it! Kuna ujinga mwingi unaoendelea kiasi ambacho kinafanya nijiulize...why bother??!! Ivi kweli kuendelea inabidi tusubiri mpk mtu wa nje aje kusaidia? Kama nchi ingekuwa 'safi', ningeweke pesa yangu yote huko. Lakini kutokana na ufisadi, ubabaishaji, na mengine mengi, siwezi kabisa! Vibarua mbona vipo, you just have to think outside the box. Usidhani kuajiriwa ndo solution!
     
  11. Mlalahoi

    Mlalahoi JF-Expert Member

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    Hoja zako ni nzito na zenye umuhimu mkubwa kwa ustawi wa taifa letu.However,kikwazo kikubwa ni ufisadi.Kama fedha za walalahoi zinafisadiwa kila kukicha I dont see why not mchango wa diaspora utasalimika.Kwa kiasi kikubwa ajira za nyumbani zinaangalia zaidi wewe ni nani/umeletwa na nani na sio input unayotarajia kuleta kwa mwajiri.It's who,and not what,you know that matters katika Tanzania yetu ya leo.
    Kewa minajili hiyo,ni vema mchango mkubwa wa watu walio nje ukabaki kuwa katika level ya mtu binafsi.Western Union or Money gram to a family member or friend,if not kutumia huduma ya wapemba.
     
  12. MwanaFalsafa1

    MwanaFalsafa1 JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu calm down sikuwa na nia ya kukukwaza. Nisamehe because maneno yako ya mwishoni yanaonyesha hasira mno na emotions. Kumbuka watu tuna different experiences. I do not know what yo went through. So nikisema something that personally touches you, there is no need to say my words a bull**** or kwamba mimi ni kiaraka wa CCM. I just give my opinions. Now turudi kwenye mada. Ngoja nijibu point zako. Hope this time your reply will be more relaxed.

    1. You are right. I think the government should aim at attracting "foreign investments" and not "foreign investors". What is the difference between the two?
    a)A foreign investment is any money that comes from outside the country be it from a Tanzanian or non Tanzanian.
    b)Foreign investors is a non citizen who comes to invest in another country.

    Maybe for a long time most of our foreign investments have been coming from foreign investors that is why that is the group they aim to attract. On that part the government needs to change they focus.

    2.Now this is the part where you talk with a lot of emotions. I do not know our experiences so you have every right to be emotional about anything that touches you. By talking about uzalendo I did not question your own patriotism. Now you talk as a diaspora but I'm not sure. If you are one remember we are talking about diaspora in general so do't take anythings as a personal attack on you. If you feel you owe nothing to your country that's understandable. For me I owe a lot to my country that is why I want to see it move forward. That is why I feel indebted to it. If it has done nothing for you it is understandable you feel that way. Again it is the issue of personal experience.

    3.I can't argue with you here it does happen. But with that said people do make it and have made in in Tanzania. I feel that corruption is just a stage a country passes through on it's way to moving forward. If you look at the infant stage of many countries, including European countries, you find that at one stage corruption was a problem but it took it's people to stand up to the establishment and force changes to the status quo. We are that change.

    4.Now here mkuu ndiyo nakupinga kwa nguvu zote. There is no development without change. The definition of change is transformation or when something passes from one phase to another. So how can you say change has nothing to do with development? Just the fact of going from poor to comfortable is a change. Hapa naona kama your emotions got the better of your judgement or you just disagreed for the sake of disagreeing with me. Au mkuu kwako what is the definition of change?

    Again thank you for your opinion mkuu. For the most part I got the points you were trying to make. I agree with some and disagree with others but that's the beauty of discussion.
     
  13. MwanaFalsafa1

    MwanaFalsafa1 JF-Expert Member

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    I see your point mkuu. Lakini unajua pia hata nchi zilizo endelea it's not necessarily what you know but who you know? I think hili tatizo lipo kila sehemu it's just that wenzetu walioendelea are more subtle about it. About mchango mkubwa ubaki kuwa katika level binafsi hapo nime kusoma vizuri mkuu na you raise a good point.
     
  14. babalao

    babalao Forum Spammer

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    Hawa Diaspora unategemea watasaidia nchi? Kwanza wamekimbia nchi wengine hawana hata mpango wa kurudi bongo.Kama wapo wenye nia ni wachache tunawakaribisha warudi kujenga nchi sisi tupo tunakomaa na nchi yetu. Hata huko walipokimbilia kwenye maziwa na asali kuna watu waliopinda mgongo kuitengeneza hiyo nchi. Tanzania itajengwa na watanzania wenye moyo.
     
  15. Chapakazi

    Chapakazi JF-Expert Member

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    Sorry mh, didn't mean to sound angry! But am just tired of this 'uzalendo' business. I believe we live as individuals and strive as individuals. I belive u r an international person, and by this i mean u have lived and worked abroad. With such international exposure, I think u would understand what i mean by being tied down to one country. For me at least, i believe a country only offers a citizenship status. By the way, aren't they all imaginary?
    I like you 1st point. We definately have to differentiate between foreign investment and foreign investors. But again, the govt needs to attact me, not the other way round. Think of it as a recruitment process. I believe we all have an element of uzalendo inside us. I don't know why, but i guess we all need a sense of belonging to somewhere. So the govt shld use this element to attact diaspora, as they would be best catalists of 'change' (according to u).

    ...will talk about the issue of change badae. Got run
     
  16. Chapakazi

    Chapakazi JF-Expert Member

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    Okay mh, twende taratibu. Nimeweka extracts za conversion nzima kusudi tuelewe tunazungumzia nini hasa.

    1. Change na development sio kitu kimoja. Kumbuka hapa tunaongelea 'economic development'. Definition yake:


    Economic development refers to social and technological progress. It implies a change in the way goods and services are produced, not merely an increase in production achieved using the old methods of production on a wider scale.

    The word change used in this context (in the definition) is different from the way you used it in your writing. Change refers to mabadiliko, lakini development sio mabadiliko in such, lakini ni kupiga hatua. For development, the right word to use is transition, na sio transformation - neno ambalo pia umetumia. Change infers a a complete transformation, while in a sense development sio a complete transformation, but a transition from one stage to another.

    Taking this point further, development requires no sacrifice on anyone's part. This is what you said in your first statement. Change may require sacrifice, but development requires non whatsoever!! Kwa mfano, wewe leo una heka 5 za mpunga. Katika hizo, unaweza kulima gunia 10. Baada ya kupata maendeleo (labda kulima kwa kisasa zaidi), umeweza kutumia kilimo cha kisasa kupata magunia 20. Would that require any sacrifice from you? Kumbuka development is brought through an improvement of factors of production. Haya mambo ya sacrifice ni political speech tu! But in reality it requires non whatsoever! Hapo ulitaka kutudanganya. And that is what why i disagreed with you.
     
  17. consigliori

    consigliori JF-Expert Member

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    I understand that our system is corrupt, and when you say you dont care about TZ I also understand your frustrations. Lakini tusisahau kuwa hata huko uliko, si kila citizen anafurahishwa na jinsi mambo yanavyoendeshwa, but they dont QUIT. Ndo maana nchi zao zipo hivyo zilivyo mpaka na wewe ukavutiwa kukaa huko, it came with citizens' efforts to change things.

    I believe the reason most of us have joined JF is because we want to learn from other members and share whatever little we have so that Tanzanians can understand why things are the way they are and what we should be doing individually and collectively to bring the required change.

    Kwa hiyo mkuu, with due respect, I urge you to be part of the efforts to bring change. Bringing social and economic change is not an event, it is process, let us all be part of this process.
     
  18. J

    Jekyll+Hyde Member

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    "Kuna wengine wanazo za Oxford ??? n.k na wengine wanazo za kununua so called themselves elites??!!!! na ni mabogus wa kutupwa" na bado wanamwaga matapishi yao hapa tuwaweke kwenye kundi gani? mhhh!! "mediocre"
     
  19. Chapakazi

    Chapakazi JF-Expert Member

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    True, but at the sametime, dont make it a must! I am a free individual, and i can decide where to put my money. I am not obligated to invest nor help Tanzania in anyway! I repeat...the govt has to offer me certain incentives in order to attract me. Kama vile ua linavyo vuta nyuki, hivyo hivyo ndo serikali ya Tz inabidi ifanye kunivuta! Otherwise....imekula kwetu! Alafu hii ya kudai hizi nchi zimekuwa kwa kupitia wananchi wake, is not the whole truth. Kumbuka at one stage (especially during the industrial revolution) England relied heavily on foreign imports. Na hizi zilikuja free kutoka colonies zake. America depended on the slave trade too. Japan depended on America aid! Kwa hiyo usi-distort history kwa kuwapa sifa wasizo stahili!
     
  20. consigliori

    consigliori JF-Expert Member

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    Yor signature reads "CHANGES BEGINS WITH YOU", I thought this is another way of saying we should not wait for other people to bring change, I am suprised that you dont believe in this! Once a former US President J.F Kennedy said "ask not what America will do for you, but what You will do for America" On the contrary I can see that you are asking Tanzania to do something for you, but you are not ready to do anything for Tanzania, what a pity.

    I agree that you a free individual, certainly we are all free individual but there are social responsibilties which we as citizens feel obliged to attend to. Sina hakika kama Tanzania haijakusaidia kabisa, if you serach your heart carefully, you will find that TZ has hepled you in one way or another and probably it is still helping you.

    Mungu Ibariki Tanzania.
     
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