What would German Tanzania have been like?

Askari Kanzu said:
Are you serious, that you are still romanticizing the colonial past?
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My friend Askari Kanzu may be we have different perceptions when it come to the issue of Colonialism. I don't have to argue much when it comes to comparison between Germany rule and British rule because even an elementary history can provide answers. But I can assure that we Africans and Tanzanians in particular have a problem with our history curricula. And I concur with Patrice Lumumba who said Africans have to rewrite our history.
The current history has not covered key African history, that is why it is not surprising to find an African with huge hatred against the whites while he/she does not know the history of his/her tribe.
The problem with our history curricula is that these curricula were prepared by the so called freedom fighters who since then they have struggled to justify their stay in power by equipping the generations with only negativity towards the colonial rule. To make sure our fellow black rulers brainwash us to the maximum, they have even come with a very shallow definition of colonialism. In fact Colonialism has been there even before the coming of the whites. Some weaker societies had to pay something to the stronger societies so that they are not invaded. For instance the Nubians had to give the Khartoumers 3oo slaves each year so that Nubians are not invaded, was that not kind of colonialism? By the way we all agree that Germans and British had bad intention to us by implication, but what convinces us that the Post independence rule has good intention with us? May be me and you Askari kanzu we are convinced because we have never been victims of the leadership. but for someone who has lost his/her beloved in the hands of the police where is the good intension of ccm? To mwangosi's family what is the diference btn ccm and the german rule? Where is the good intention to the leadership that is not ready to have members of parliament with education not below Form four? The rule that has rejected the idea of restricting leaders to have accounts out of the country. What is the good intention of the rule that does not want the leaders to be responsible to the citizens? And if so what is the difference btn the German rule and ccm rule to the people who have been suffering in their own land? I assure you there are people who do not see the difference and some few find the German rule better.
Lastly let us build the behaviour of accepting the truth even if that truth comes from our enemy. The current behaviour we have does not help us that's why all good points from opposition are always rejected even if they are vital to Tanzania's development.
 
Kibona said:
...The problem with our history curricula is that these curricula were prepared by the so called freedom fighters...
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Who are those freedom fighters that you are referring to. Were Ali Mazrui and Cheikh Anta Diop ever freedom fighters (just as an example)? What kind of African history and historians have you been reading?
 
Askari Kanzu said:
Who are those freedom fighters that you are referring to. Were Ali Mazrui and Cheikh Anta Diop ever freedom fighters (just as an example)? What kind of African history and historians have you been reading?
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I'm talking about the people in power because Ali Mazrui, Cheikh Anta Diop, Walter Rodney and the likes have gained the popularity due to the mindsets of the regimes. For example do you think the history about the 1994 Genocide in Rwanda could have been written in the same way had it not RPF been in power? Even now there are so many people have written about the other side of the coin about the Genocide but every thing has been in vein because the RPF regime has its own vision so its only those writers with matching ideas will flourish. And this happens in every circumstance where there is a change in regimes. On the other hand I'm not trying to win the debate here, and for a reasonable time here in JFs, Askari kanzu you are one of the people who can easily understand the context (that is my belief) The only thing I can observe here is even though you understand what I'm trying to say, you are not comfortable with my stand to acknowledge the positive impact of the German rule.
 
Kibona said:
.... only thing I can observe here is even though you understand what I'm trying to say, you are not comfortable with my stand to acknowledge the positive impact of the German rule.
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Yes. I am also troubled by your Germany rule positive impact towards our motherland.
 
TUJITEGEMEE said:
Yes. I am also trouble by your Germany rule positive impact towards our motherland.
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I believe every regime in the world has its negative and positive impact to the particular society. Germany rule had its positive and negative. The positive impact was the investment particularly in railways, and establishment of cash crops plantations ( even though the intention was implicitly not good to Tanganyikans), designing the roads and even the towns. Negative impacts were mainly the cruelity and possibly the interruption of our African culture by imparting their religion and suppressing our beliefs and generally interrupting our ways of life. If you agree with on this perception then it won't be a problem when I compare the two colonial regimes which had more positive impact than the other. The problem comes when someone do not want to hear any comparison in terms of positive impacts. Of course I'm not surprised because the same behaviour can also be witnessed in post independence regime; When some one is pro ccm is not ready to hear anything positive from opposition unless it is in the line with ccm and the vice versa is true also. Lastly Acknowledging the positive impact of German rule it doesn't mean I don't know its negative impact, I'm talking about positive impact due to the nature and context of the thread.
 
Kibona said:
...When some one is pro ccm is not ready to hear anything positive from opposition unless it is in the line with ccm and the vice versa is true also...
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Such a generalization will always limit your ability to analyze issues. Not all pro CCM or all members of the opposition think the way you do. You cannot force others to see the "positiveness" of the German rule without producing plausible arguments. Your opposition to the sitting regime should not make you lose your impartiality and revert to nostalgic romanticization of your colonial past; imho!
 
You are right no one should force someone to think the way he/she think. And actually it is you who attacked my way of thinking. And sometimes its difficult to agree each other because we perceive colonialism differently. For me even now I see some colonial features in the regime, may be I will change my thinking at a point where I start seeing the good intention of a current regime towards its people. But with this serious ufisadi backed by the rulers, the only difference I see here is black colonialists and white colonialists. However I'm not forcing any one to believe what I believe.
On the issue of 'generalization', the only research that does not apply generalization is 'Census' because it takes the whole population in the study area. Now from your argument above it implies then that the researchers are the people with the most limited ability in analysing issues; because any research that uses a sample must apply generalization so as the research to become meaningful.
 
Kibona said:
...the only difference I see here is black colonialists and white colonialists...
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I find no rationale in your exculpation. Is this the reason you think the Germans were more "positive" than the Brits in their colonization of Tanganyika? I thought that is what is the gist of the matter.
 
Askari Kanzu said:
I find no rationale in your exculpation. Is this the reason you think the Germans were more "positive" than the Brits in their colonization of Tanganyika? I thought that is what is the gist of the matter.
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No no no! this answer is related only to the above post of yours not the thread. I have answered that when you advised me not to romanticize with the colonial past; so I was trying to show that to me colonialism is not the past, I see it even now.
 
Kibona said:
...to me colonialism is not the past, I see it even now.
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I think you are mixing issues here. What is happening now can in no way be termed as colonialism per se (unless you have your own interpretation). As I pointed out earlier, belonging to the opposition does not mean romanticizing and paying homage to colonialism, quite the contrary.

Colonialism is the establishment, exploitation, maintenance, acquisition, and expansion of colonies in one territory by people from another territory. It is a set of unequal relationships between the colonial power and the colony and often between the colonists and the indigenous population. (Wikipedia)

Now is this what you are seeing happening in modern day Tanzania that make you long for the Germans and their "positive" investments to Tanganyika?
 
I hope it is you who is confusing, if you trace where the discussion came from, you will even yourself wonder how you have been mixing matters. The main issue before you jumped in was the "comparison btn German and British colonial rule" and its here I came with positive investment by the German rule. Then after a long discussion where you were picking a statement and ask me, then the topic changed from comparison the colonial regimes to the status of the current regime. However still with the wikipedia definition of colonialism I can see colonial elements in Tz. Nevertheless our elementary definition of colonialism where "colonialism is the process where one country controls the other one politically, economically, culturally, militarily and socially" can reflect what I'm saying. Politically the Tanzanian regime is more influenced externally (by foreigners) than internally (by citizens) ufisadi is flourishing due to this reality. Economically we are very far from independence, Militarily we are not independent we mainly depend technically and Technologically on Chinese, Russians, Italians, Germans, USA and Israel in a chronological order. Culturally its even worse because just know we are using the colonial language. Lastly there is a possibility for you to reject my argument depending on your perception towards colonialism. To me colonialism still exist in Tanzania others call it neo-colonialism.
 
Tanzania would have been reduced to rubble in World War II, fighting in defense of Fuhr Hilter's Axis!
 
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