EA infrastructure race: Trio opening up big lead

Kimweri · Aug 14, 2014

Koba said:
Thanks... huyu Kimweri haelewi,akiona GDP 7.5% its all good,anasahau gold mining zina xport billions ambazo treasury hakuna kitu kinaingia ,gas will be the same and the worst rationing will never end,mafisadi wanamaliza nchi.

I have never said so, stop comparing mangoes to oranges, our angle was purely on numbers,if i were to compare with situation on the ground very few people beats TZ in Africa,and certainly Kenya is not one of them. We are poor in terms of GDP but people's lives are just fine in terms of having NO MONEY.

Kenya is worse than TZ if we look at percentage of growth trickling down to people's pockets.So why post shifting?if we talk about Kenya being ahead because of its bigger GDP,why get defensive when i say TZ is clossing the gap based on its GDP increase for the past 15 years?

So this GDP thing is only worthwile discussing when its on Kenya's side, when its not its a useless indicator?double standards much?

Kimweri · Aug 14, 2014

Kichuguu said:
May be we differ in our time frames. You are looking at the future while I look at the past and the present. I believe that the past is a stronger indicator for the future unless there are signficant changes in the process. Tanzanite mining started in the 90s all going to one South African company, gold mining also started in the 90s all going to one Canadian company and one Ghanaian company. All of these mining activities brought nothing rather than beefing up Swiss and Jersey accounts. We all know how the gas extraction process is going on; there is no better teacher in these matters than the past experience.

I actually really liked the Tanzania of the past, for me it was a Nation worthy of mention,Nyerere gave me every reason to be proud regardless of the economic situation, and our social welfare at the moment was one of the best in Africa.

i think we are doing different measurements rather than looking at different time frames, you talk of problems in TZ that are even bigger in Kenya, their economy is massively dominated by foreigners,past and present.Go to Nairobi posh areas and come back to Dar Posh areas you would understand this.

If the past was the indicator of the future i could go back to Nyerere Times and assume TZ will never practice capitalism, its all about the filter you decide to put before your eyes.

At the same time, i believe mistakes made in the past are key to what we will choose as a nation in the future,and some of them we have tried to correct them, albeit with limited success,cue in Zanzibar union matter and gas contracts reviews.

on the swiss accounts that is something i trully agree with you, but one key thing that most people are forgetting is TZ corruption will only grow with our increasing fortunes. These multinationals are extremely corrupt and worse the westerners have all but legalized corruption, in Washington they call them lobbyists, while in reality they are agents of corruption.

China which has recorded some of the best growth past 40 years is also a country fighting the biggest corruption battle in the world,just a few weeks ago, they opened the biggest corruption investigation against the highest official yet- zhou yongkan.

is china less developed because of corruption, debatable, is china more developed regardless of corruption, definitely.

same thing can apply to TZ or any other country.

i think the gist of this thread was someone trying to show TZ is left behind in infrastructures, which i and many posters here proved wrong based on facts on the ground.

After realizing that they brought in FDI issues, only to be proved wrong again, so i would suggest we either stick to what we started discussing or whatever diversion is created is going to be true for Kenya as well as any other for African country.

Voltaire · Aug 14, 2014

lawmaina78 said:
Usafiri wa kimataifa ni muhimu sana haswa wakati huu FDI zinaongezeka.

Sure,it is important,also in terms of boosting tourism and local produce exportation like flowers and the likes of that,but we should understand that,local roads networks plays a major role in development as far as transport is concerned and FDI,Tanzania is doing very well comparing to other EA countries as well as major Western African countries like Ghana and Ivory coast,the government of kikwete is itself in the process of finishing a road network of more than 11 thousands kilometers of tarmacked road,a four years period!it is a major step,adding to the already available 8 thousands km network,it brings us to 19 thou km...compared to Ghana which has only 12 thou km!...Kenya and other EAC members have something to learn from this!..Tanzania is now in the last stages of construction of more than 1,000 km long gas pipe line from mtwara to dsm for different uses like,power generation for cars and home use and many other different uses,Tanzania will produce more than 10000 MW of power,this will boost the fast growing industrial development as well as FDI...Bagamoyo is set to be the biggest port in East and Central Africa,the feasibility study of the project is complete and we are set to start constuction...Dar airport is also to be re built to meet the increasing growth of the sector,the tender has been awarded to the dutch company,now talking of infrastructure and growth in relation to the actual impacts on the current global economy and impact to the people,you can see how Tanzania is positioning herself and the strategies set!

MK254 · Aug 14, 2014

idaz said:
Sure,it is important,also in terms of boosting tourism and local produce exportation like flowers and the likes of that,but we should understand that,local roads networks plays a major role in development as far as transport is concerned and FDI,Tanzania is doing very well comparing to other EA countries as well as major Western African countries like Ghana and Ivory coast,the government of kikwete is itself in the process of finishing a road network of more than 11 thousands kilometers of tarmacked road,a four years period!it is a major step,adding to the already available 8 thousands km network,it brings us to 19 thou km...compared to Ghana which has only 12 thou km!...Kenya and other EAC members have something to learn from this!..Tanzania is now in the last stages of construction of more than 1,000 km long gas pipe line from mtwara to dsm for different uses like,power generation for cars and home use and many other different uses,Tanzania will produce more than 10000 MW of power,this will boost the fast growing industrial development as well as FDI...Bagamoyo is set to be the biggest port in East and Central Africa,the feasibility study of the project is complete and we are set to start constuction...Dar airport is also to be re built to meet the increasing growth of the sector,the tender has been awarded to the dutch company,now talking of infrastructure and growth in relation to the actual impacts on the current global economy and impact to the people,you can see how Tanzania is positioning herself and the strategies set!

Thanks for a sober response without getting carried away into self gratification. I know it takes a lot more than a good airpot to increase FDI, I only mentioned its importance in the chain.
We are all aware Tanzania is ahead in FDI, and majorly so because the land is huge and full of mineral resources as well as fertile. Actually you should be doing far much more than this, I was shocked to see Tanzania buying 20,000 tonnes of maize from Zambia in 2013. You guys needs to really wake up. Whatever is holding you back is only known to you, which I suspect could be because of your countrymen's obsession with using Kenya as a benchmark. Just read all the posts discussing development in Tanzania, you'll notice Kenya is mentioned far many times than any other country including Tanzania itself.
Anyway, it's agreeable president Kikwete is doing a lot, and has started so many mega projects, if only they can be pushed aggressively into maturity by whoever will come into power. Otherwise they will continue to be songs we are always lambasted here on JF with, yet none of them is out there so far. The last time I visited Dar, saw BRT lanes and booths were already wearing out before even the first bus on that road.
Bagamoyo port is a great deal, but it's more futuristic than present challenges. Dar port is still the most mismanaged, and doesn't matter how bigger the new port will be, as long as the workforce attitude is not pepped up, it will remain a one big white elephant. You must note that Mombasa port has been improved such that getting goods to as far as Kigali is a breeze, even there are so many business-people from Nothern Tanzania using Mombasa port.
It should also be noted, even in Kenya, there are mega projects underway and in ten years Kenya will never be the same again. Just to mention a few of them here
- We have plans for the northern corridor that includes oil pipeline for oil from Uganda, South Sudan as well as Kenya's discovered oil. The corridor also has a planned railway and a highway, this will also link into Ethiopia.
- We have standard gauge railway under contruction that will loop through four nations. And due to its complexity, will also see us lure Congo and Burundi.
- We are in the process of targeting to generate 5,000 MW of power from geothermal, solar and coal.
- Konza City, a $9.2 billion dollar technology and financial metropolis project located southeast of Nairobi.
- We are also building 10,000km roads
- We are irrigating a million acre in Galana that if successful, it will help the nation kiss hunger goodbye.
- Don't forget we have also discovered gas but we are at preliminary stages.
- The government is partnering with private sector to fast-track about 59 major projects.
So, those are just a few, don't forget we have a new constitution that has seen the country take major leaps.

Voltaire · Aug 15, 2014

lawmaina78 said:
Thanks for a sober response without getting carried away into self gratification. I know it takes a lot more than a good airpot to increase FDI, I only mentioned its importance in the chain.
We are all aware Tanzania is ahead in FDI, and majorly so because the land is huge and full of mineral resources as well as fertile. Actually you should be doing far much more than this, I was shocked to see Tanzania buying 20,000 tonnes of maize from Zambia in 2013. You guys needs to really wake up. Whatever is holding you back is only known to you, which I suspect could be because of your countrymen's obsession with using Kenya as a benchmark. Just read all the posts discussing development in Tanzania, you'll notice Kenya is mentioned far many times than any other country including Tanzania itself.
Anyway, it's agreeable president Kikwete is doing a lot, and has started so many mega projects, if only they can be pushed aggressively into maturity by whoever will come into power. Otherwise they will continue to be songs we are always lambasted here on JF with, yet none of them is out there so far. The last time I visited Dar, saw BRT lanes and booths were already wearing out before even the first bus on that road.
Bagamoyo port is a great deal, but it's more futuristic than present challenges. Dar port is still the most mismanaged, and doesn't matter how bigger the new port will be, as long as the workforce attitude is not pepped up, it will remain a one big white elephant. You must note that Mombasa port has been improved such that getting goods to as far as Kigali is a breeze, even there are so many business-people from Nothern Tanzania using Mombasa port.
It should also be noted, even in Kenya, there are mega projects underway and in ten years Kenya will never be the same again. Just to mention a few of them here
- We have plans for the northern corridor that includes oil pipeline for oil from Uganda, South Sudan as well as Kenya's discovered oil. The corridor also has a planned railway and a highway, this will also link into Ethiopia.
- We have standard gauge railway under contruction that will loop through four nations. And due to its complexity, will also see us lure Congo and Burundi.
- We are in the process of targeting to generate 5,000 MW of power from geothermal, solar and coal.
- Konza City, a $9.2 billion dollar technology and financial metropolis project located southeast of Nairobi.
- We are also building 10,000km roads
- We are irrigating a million acre in Galana that if successful, it will help the nation kiss hunger goodbye.
- Don't forget we have also discovered gas but we are at preliminary stages.
- The government is partnering with private sector to fast-track about 59 major projects.
So, those are just a few, don't forget we have a new constitution that has seen the country take major leaps.

You know for decades now Kenya has been the centre for Eastern and Central African nations in terms of investment and development,as the wind is now changing, China emerging strongly...discoveries of oil,gas and gold in EA countries,insecurity and instability in Kenya,reforms taken by other EA nations,puts Kenya in worrying position,Ethiopia has a very good potential to take that position but lest us forget also Tanzania is capable of taking that chance given the rate of growth and attractions that we have comparing to Ethiopia,Kenya's aggressiveness is something to learn from,how they are trying to maintain at all costs what seems is in danger to be lost to its neighbors,we should understand,one thing which is very important,the growth of Ethiopia,Tanzania and Rwanda doesn't pose a threat to the power of Kenya's economy,but rather an opportunity for expansion of trade and development in the region,Tanzania has always exported maize to Kenya,currently,a licence has been issued by the government and tender awarded to a Tanzanian company to Export 200,000 Tonnes to the Kenyan government,where is this maize coming from?..not from this year's July harvests,they are from national reserves from previous year's harvests,it is not noble to look down at someone selling you food,for your own good!this is the problem we have with you Kenyans,you tend to look down at us,we definitely cannot sell maize to you if we do not have sufficient reserves for our people!..if it our rivarly..lets compete by looking at the phase of development and steps taken to help our nations...Kenya,Uganda are like brothers to us,we sell maize and other stuff to help you,then you are dissing us!....not fair!

MK254 · Aug 15, 2014

idaz said:
You know for decades now Kenya has been the centre for Eastern and Central African nations in terms of investment and development,as the wind is now changing, China emerging strongly...discoveries of oil,gas and gold in EA countries,insecurity and instability in Kenya,reforms taken by other EA nations,puts Kenya in worrying position,Ethiopia has a very good potential to take that position but lest us forget also Tanzania is capable of taking that chance given the rate of growth and attractions that we have comparing to Ethiopia,Kenya's aggressiveness is something to learn from,how they are trying to maintain at all costs what seems is in danger to be lost to its neighbors,we should understand,one thing which is very important,the growth of Ethiopia,Tanzania and Rwanda doesn't pose a threat to the power of Kenya's economy,but rather an opportunity for expansion of trade and development in the region,Tanzania has always exported maize to Kenya,currently,a licence has been issued by the government and tender awarded to a Tanzanian company to Export 200,000 Tonnes to the Kenyan government,where is this maize coming from?..not from this year's July harvests,they are from national reserves from previous year's harvests,it is not noble to look down at someone selling you food,for your own good!this is the problem we have with you Kenyans,you tend to look down at us,we definitely cannot sell maize to you if we do not have sufficient reserves for our people!..if it our rivarly..lets compete by looking at the phase of development and steps taken to help our nations...Kenya,Uganda are like brothers to us,we sell maize and other stuff to help you,then you are dissing us!....not fair!

The biggest problem I've had with Tanzanians is inferiority complex. You keep on thinking Kenyans are out there to demean you and this causes you to be always on defensive even when a Kenyan is simply trying to strike up a conversation. I remember my first time in Tz, before coming there, I never had any issues with Tanzanians, they are here in Kenya and in their thousands, we used to interact a lot such that I even reached to a point of not noticing they were foreigners, but just some next door neighbors. But when I visited Tanzania, I noticed something new, guys were always apprehensive whenever they discerned I was a Kenyan.

They seemed to have this notion that I was looking down on them, there was so much mistrust such that I had to perfect my Swahili and shaped my accent in order to make them feel at ease and relax whenever I was around. I managed several projects and at first fell into collisions with most because here in Kenya we are used to being hard and tough on deadlines and milestones.....not a laughing matter. Being dropped and fired from a project is as easy as swapping a fly. But sorry to say this, in Tanzania I noticed some sluggishness, and couldn't act tough enough. I
had to relax and used tricks to get things done. Believe me, we lost a certain multi-million project because of this behavior. The client was fed up.

One thing I noticed too, Tanzanians are very patient people. We would be given a project and while I pushed hard, we would surpass the deadline and go into more months without any punitive measures taken on us. There are points I just couldn't fathom this as you can't try such a thing in Kenya. Here as soon you get a contract to deliver, you'll be hunted down by competitors who failed to get the contract, they will monitor your every move and as soon you depict any signs of failure, they will be all over you like a pack of hyenas.

Otherwise, we don't look down on you and trust me, people will treat you the way you want. There are excellent Tanzanians I met who worked so hard, some with zeal and confidence I've never even seen in Kenya. I remember a few guys I worked with who are very intolerant to laziness, they were very sharp, punctual, fast and assertive, I loved working with them so much. They got things done and were very agitated at any sign of delay.

Voltaire · Aug 16, 2014

lawmaina78 said:
The biggest problem I've had with Tanzanians is inferiority complex. You keep on thinking Kenyans are out there to demean you and this causes you to be always on defensive even when a Kenyan is simply trying to strike up a conversation. I remember my first time in Tz, before coming there, I never had any issues with Tanzanians, they are here in Kenya and in their thousands, we used to interact a lot such that I even reached to a point of not noticing they were foreigners, but just some next door neighbors. But when I visited Tanzania, I noticed something new, guys were always apprehensive whenever they discerned I was a Kenyan.

They seemed to have this notion that I was looking down on them, there was so much mistrust such that I had to perfect my Swahili and shaped my accent in order to make them feel at ease and relax whenever I was around. I managed several projects and at first fell into collisions with most because here in Kenya we are used to being hard and tough on deadlines and milestones.....not a laughing matter. Being dropped and fired from a project is as easy as swapping a fly. But sorry to say this, in Tanzania I noticed some sluggishness, and couldn't act tough enough. I
had to relax and used tricks to get things done. Believe me, we lost a certain multi-million project because of this behavior. The client was fed up.

One thing I noticed too, Tanzanians are very patient people. We would be given a project and while I pushed hard, we would surpass the deadline and go into more months without any punitive measures taken on us. There are points I just couldn't fathom this as you can't try such a thing in Kenya. Here as soon you get a contract to deliver, you'll be hunted down by competitors who failed to get the contract, they will monitor your every move and as soon you depict any signs of failure, they will be all over you like a pack of hyenas.

Otherwise, we don't look down on you and trust me, people will treat you the way you want. There are excellent Tanzanians I met who worked so hard, some with zeal and confidence I've never even seen in Kenya. I remember a few guys I worked with who are very intolerant to laziness, they were very sharp, punctual, fast and assertive, I loved working with them so much. They got things done and were very agitated at any sign of delay.

Actually there was such a tendancy,it is now changing,we see a vibrant,energetic and ambitious graduates coming out strongly ready to wrestle...a number of graduates has in recent years increased,Tz was lagging behind for so many years comparing to our neighbors,the number of students studying in both kenya and uganda from primary to secondary level has sharply dropped,I am a living witness of this,i went to Uganda for my O'level education,back then we were so many,but now there are even better schools here that can compete,the trend is changing....i like the atmosphere,there are some areas where our people are still lagging behind,but life is dynamic,market economy is taking toll in TZ faster than expected,we shall witness a lot more to these changes!..our people are obsessed with Kenya and are always setting it as a benchmark,i think it s just for now,Kenya doesn't have the major competitive elements to compare with TZ if we operate at full capacity,looking at: size,population,resources like;water bodies,cultivatable land,minerals like,gold,Tanzanite,coal,ruby,iron ore,uranium,gas and PEACE!..I look at Kenya as a business partner who is smaller but had some comparative advantages before and utilised it,but now we both agree,China and US are in economical war,US is ahead,but China has comparative advantages against US,they will surpas them eventually!..it is inevitable,it is a hard to swallow truth,we are there coming!

MK254 · Aug 16, 2014

One thing I also want to make clear, Kenyans don't have any problem being overtaken by Tanzania (save for our JF taunts). We all know this is bound to happen sometime in the future. But it's my every prayer that you overtake us while both of us are at full amphetamine, but not like have seen many Tanzanians here praying for some calamities to slow us down. You can't wish your competitor to fall down so you can take the lead, that won't be a sweet victory.

Trust me, by the time Tanzania overtakes Kenya, you guys will be in a haven, this is because Kenya is also working extremely hard to get better. Lest you forget, a fully explored Tanzania is of benefit to Kenyans too, we are always down there too tapping into the opportunities albeit the attitude from your countrymen bit wanting.

msemakweli · Aug 20, 2014

Koborer said:
Meaning it is false?

the east african newspaper tulishazoea ni all about kenya. everything else kwao ni unnecessary detail. the only truly east african newspaper ni "the east african business week". lakini ni vizuri. waache wakenya wajisifusifu, they won't see us coming!

msemakweli · Aug 20, 2014

Koborer · Aug 21, 2014

ralphtz said:
the east african newspaper tulishazoea ni all about kenya. everything else kwao ni unnecessary detail. the only truly east african newspaper ni "the east african business week". lakini ni vizuri. waache wakenya wajisifusifu, they won't see us coming!

You expect that Kenya will fall asleep for you to come and overtake?

MzalendoHalisi · Aug 21, 2014

I will always remain a Tanzanian and be proud of this name! Nimeenda pengi in Africa na pia Ihabe visited in Kenya many times... but not convinced yet!

msemakweli · Aug 21, 2014

Koborer said:
You expect that Kenya will fall asleep for you to come and overtake?

Of course Kenya will also be moving, only at a far slower pace than Tanzania, allowing Tz to catch up. it is clear that Tz is the next big thing in EA, from various indicators. our economy is growing at over 7% while yours can barely make it to 5%. our tourism sector has now surpassed kenya in terms of revenues, the gas is set to earn the gvt $2.5billion annually for up to the early 2060s (mark you more and more gas is being discovered. and we havent even brought in the oil! a $20billion petrochemical park is being developed in mtwara that will host a refinery and an LNG plant), we have double your size of arable land, east africas largest city is now dar es salaam (in terms of population, or market size depending on how u look at it), we are soon to produce double the amount of soda ash u produce from lake natron etc. the list just goes on and on......

Koborer · Aug 21, 2014

ralphtz said:
Of course Kenya will also be moving, only at a far slower pace than Tanzania, allowing Tz to catch up. it is clear that Tz is the next big thing in EA, from various indicators. our economy is growing at over 7% while yours can barely make it to 5%. our tourism sector has now surpassed kenya in terms of revenues, the gas is set to earn the gvt $2.5billion annually for up to the early 2060s (mark you more and more gas is being discovered. and we havent even brought in the oil! a $20billion petrochemical park is being developed in mtwara that will host a refinery and an LNG plant), we have double your size of arable land, east africas largest city is now dar es salaam (in terms of population, or market size depending on how u look at it), we are soon to produce double the amount of soda ash u produce from lake natron etc. the list just goes on and on......

You wish, okay let's wait and see. You have been saying the same thing for years.

Kibona · Aug 22, 2014

Askari Kanzu said:
Why can't you just stick to your mother tongue?

Achana nae huyo. Size yao Al shabab sio sie. Muda sio mrefu watakubali kushindwa.

Kibona · Aug 22, 2014

MzalendoHalisi said:
I will always remain a Tanzanian and be proud of this name! Nimeenda pengi in Africa na pia Ihabe visited in Kenya many times... but not convinced yet!

Mkuu hapo ulitaka kuandika "Ich habe" nini? au ni typing error.

EA infrastructure race: Trio opening up big lead

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