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US Media Campaign to Discredit Iranian Election

Discussion in 'International Forum' started by X-PASTER, Jun 14, 2009.

  1. X-PASTER

    X-PASTER Moderator

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    US Media Campaign to Discredit Iranian Election

    By Charting Stock
    [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]See also:-[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Lights turned off on media after elections[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]: The AFP news agency reported that Iran's wireless telephone network was shut down at 5:30pm GMT (10:00pm in Tehran), just as incumbent president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was making a television appearance to congratulate himself on a "great victory".[/FONT]
    [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]See also:-[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Landslide or Fraud? The Debate Online Over Iran's Election Results[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]: We will bring you updates throughout the day and encourage Iranian readers to share their thoughts and experiences with us.[/FONT]
    June 13, 2009 "Charting Stocks" -- -Was
    the Iranian election a fraud? That's what our great western media sources want us to believe. While scanning through the coverage, I could not find one mainstream news article which covered the election results in an objective, unbiased manner. Either prominently displayed in the title or first paragraph, each of the articles suggest the election was a fraud. The obvious question arises - If their electoral system can't be trusted, why were they watching the results so "closely" in the first place? I'd probably find better things to do then obsess over the results of a rigged game, but hey that's just me.

    It's worth noting that Iran, unlike the US, does not use electronic voting machines which are easily tampered with. They actually have paper ballots. It's also important to point out the health of their electoral process. They had an 85% turnout! We, "the champions of democracy" turnout only a fraction of that percentage for our presidential elections. In fact 2 out of 3 American citizens find something better to do during election day.

    Reuters Iran's election result staggers analysts
    Hard-liner Mahmoud Ahmadinejad defeated moderate challenger Mirhossein Mousavi by a surprisingly wide margin in Iran's presidential election, official results showed on Saturday. Mousavi derided the tally as a "dangerous charade.'

    Fox News: U.S. Monitoring Iran's Election Results
    U.S. officials are casting doubt over the results of Iran's election, in which the government declared President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad the winner Saturday…U.S. analysts find it "not credible [Notice the usual UN-NAMED "US Officials and Analysts]

    MSNBC: Violence flares as Ahmadinejad wins Iran vote
    Riot police battled with protesters Saturday as officials announced that President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad had won a landslide election victory. His opponent denounced the results as ‘treason'….Ahmadinejad had the apparent backing of the ruling theocracy.

    CNN: Ahmadinejad wins landslide in disputed election
    Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has been declared the big winner in the country's election, but his chief rival and supporters in the Tehran streets are crying foul.

    NY Times: Ahmadinejad Is Declared Victor in Iran

    The Iranian government declared an outright election victory for President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Saturday morning, and riot police officers fought with supporters of the opposition candidate, Mir Hussein Moussavi, who insisted that the election had been stolen.

    Time Magazine: Protests Greet Ahmadinejad Win in Iran: ‘It's Not Possible!
    Iran's Interior Minister announced Saturday that incumbent president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad had won 63.29% of the vote in the nation's closely watched presidential poll. The announcement, greeted with widespread skepticism by Iranian opposition supporters and by foreign analysts, has brought thousands of people onto the streets where they have encountered a strong police presence and the threat of violence.

    Was the election stolen? According to the Iranian Interior Minister Sadeq Mahsouli, there has been no ‘written complaint' about voter fraud. He declared that the presidential elections were conducted in a manner that ruled out the possibility of voter fraud. "No violations that may have influenced the vote have been reported, and we have received no written complaint," he said in response to a question posed by an Italian reporter.

    It's also worth mentioning that contrary to what our media would have us believe, Ahmadinejad doesn't have much power in Iran. The President is not the most powerful person in the country. He is not the commander in chief and does not control the army and the intelligence and security services. He does not have the power to go to war. Those powers are reserved for the supreme leader of Iran Ayatollah Khomeini.
     
  2. MwanaFalsafa1

    MwanaFalsafa1 JF-Expert Member

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    Serikali ya Marekani siku zote haioni dhambi zake inaona za wngine. Siku zote hutaka nchi zingine zifuate mfumo wake(kisa cha "Cold War"). Unajua Marekani kupitia CIA huwa wanafanya uchochezi? Kama kura ziliibwa au la hiyo kazi wawaachie wenyewe Iran. Iran ina kiongozi wa kidini ambae ni Ayatollah na huwa ana maamuzi ya mwisho katika kila kitu na yeye kashaa muunga mkono Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Vyombo vya magharibi viseme vinavyo taka ila jamaa ndiyo wanae tena.
     
  3. X-PASTER

    X-PASTER Moderator

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    Inaonekana hata hao viongozi wa Kidini wa Iran, Ayatollah na majlis yake wananzimikia jamaa.
     
  4. MwanaFalsafa1

    MwanaFalsafa1 JF-Expert Member

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    Iran Ayatollah ana nguvu zote. Je una fahamu kwamba kabla mtu hauja gombea uraisi ni lazima upate baraka za Ayatollah? Iran raisi si kitu na wala si muendeshaji mkuu wa maswala ya taifa ni Ayatollah. Kama kweli watu wana tatizo na matokeo pamoja na hao Wamarekani wakumfuata ni Ayatollah ambae ana nguvu za kukubali au kukataa matokeo. Wananchi wa kawaida hawawezi kuinua sauti kumsema Ayatollah na Marekani wanajua madhara ya kumsema Ayatollah. Ayatollah atakua na sababu zake za kumtaka Ahmadinejad aongoze na kama asingemtaka sasa hivi Ahmadinejad angejiandaa tu kuachia ngazi. IN IRAN THE ALL POWERFUL IS THE AYATOLLAH......WHAT AYATOLLAH SAYS IS LAW.
     
  5. M

    MzalendoHalisi JF-Expert Member

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    Unafiki tu,

    Hivi wanasahau Bush alivyoiba kura kule Frorida 2000??
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2009
  6. MwanaFalsafa1

    MwanaFalsafa1 JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu ilikuwa 2000 dhidi ya Al Gore na siyo 2004.
     
  7. Chapakazi

    Chapakazi JF-Expert Member

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    kweli...lakini nadhani the real power iko ndani ya Assembly of Experts. Hawa wanaweza kumtoa Ayatollah. System yao iko very interesting...Sijui sasa kama ni bora zaidi katika kuzuia corruption na unang'anizi wa madaraka kuliko system ya direct representation? What do u think?
     
  8. MwanaFalsafa1

    MwanaFalsafa1 JF-Expert Member

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    You know this system ina uzuri wake na ubaya wake. Uzuri ni kwamba kwenye system kama hiyo mambo yanaenda haraka na hamna haja ya kukaa muda mrefu bila maamuzi. Kukuwa na important decision Ayatollah ana amua imetoka. Ni kama kwenye nyumba baba ata shauriana na mama but at the end of the day, when it comes down to it baba can end the argument na mambo yana kwisha. Tatizo ni kwamba if all powers rest in one man basi akiwa corrupted there is nothing you can do about it. So i think this only works when the man with power is a great leader la sivyo umuweke JK kuwa Ayatollah mumekwisha. I think in a situation like Iran it comes down to who is the Ayatollah, if he is a wise man than this system works perfectly if not.....
     
  9. Chapakazi

    Chapakazi JF-Expert Member

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    Umejibu kama politician...Now, you personally, would you like such a system? Do you trust humans not to abuse power?
     
  10. MwanaFalsafa1

    MwanaFalsafa1 JF-Expert Member

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    We already have such a system sema it's not official and the power is not vested in one man per say but in one party. Serikali ni ya CCM, bunge 80% in CCM. Raisi tayari ana nguvu nchi which can not be challenged. Mahakama ambacho kingekua chombo cha kutetea haki za wananchi bila kuogopa viongozi nayo ina influence ya CCM. CCM has all the power in the country and whoever controls CCM is the Ayatollah of Tanzania. Nchi isipo kuwa na checks and balances jua kuna mtu mmoja au kikundi kimoja chenye all the say. Personally nataka system ya checks and balances Tanzania because history has proven us time and time again that we can't trust one man to have all the power in Tanzania.
     
  11. Chapakazi

    Chapakazi JF-Expert Member

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    Sidhani kama ni sisi wenyewe. Uingereza yenyewe iligundua hili miaka ya 1200 na kuleta mabadiliko kidogo (magna carter) lakini badae miaka ya 1600 ilimpindua mfalme kabisa na kukaa kwa kipindi bila mfalme/malkia (english revolution). Nadhani kwa ujumla huwezi kuachia mtu mmoja/chama kimojo kitawale. Na hichi ndicho Marekani wanapigania. System yao imekaa kiupendeleo. Ayatollah anamkubali Ahmadinejad kutokana na msimamo wake kidini. Ukumbuke huyu Ayatollah ni mdini sana, maana hicho cheo kwanza kinatoka kwenye Quran - "The name "Ayatollah" originates from the Quran where human beings can also be regarded as signs of God, the literal translation of the title. 51:20-21 of the Quran states:
    On the earth are signs (Ayat) for those of assured Faith, As also in your own selves: Will ye not then see?"

    Nakupa Facts, usiseme ninatunga....maana huku watu wamezidi uongo.

    Anyway, sasa kutokana na hicho, yeye hawezi kumpinga Ahmadinejad.
     
  12. MwanaFalsafa1

    MwanaFalsafa1 JF-Expert Member

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    Ayatollah ni cheo cha kidini na ndiyo maana jina rasmi la nchi ni The Islamic Republic of Iran meaning nchi inaendeshwa kwa miongozo ya kidini. Mara nyingi hawa viongozi wa kidini wa Iran wanataka mtu conservative ambae hata challenge utawala wa kidini na ambao ataendeleza utamaduni uliopo. Mtu yoyote anaye onekana kutaka kubadilisha status quo anaonekana adui wa taifa.

    Wamarekani bwana tuwaseme kwa chochote but they have the best political systems in the world. Marekani hakuna mtu mmoja anaye weza kuendesha nchi na ndiyo maana hata mtu kama George Bush akiwa raisi nchi bado ina songa mbele. We need a system like that ili hata tukiwa na kiongozi kama JK nchi isi yumbe.
     
  13. Chapakazi

    Chapakazi JF-Expert Member

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    Tupende tusipende, nothing lasts forever. Tamaduni zinabadilika na hata dini zinabadilisha misimamo, nk. Kama isingekuwa hivyo mpaka leo si tungeamini jua ndo linazunguka dunia!!hahahahha
    Nchi nyingi zilizoendelea, zimeendelea kutokana na kuwa na a good political system. Lakini cha msingi zaidi ni utawala wa sheria. The rule of law, enables the people to work without fear, carry out inventions with patent rights, kuanzisha biashara bila kuwa na wasiwasi itakuja kufungwa kesho na TRA, kuweka insurance against theft and other losses, nk. Utawala wa sheria unahakikisha hakuna uonevu wowote wa mkubwa kwenda kwa mdogo. As humans, we need law to govern us, ama sivyo hatuna tofauti na wanyama wengine. Tungekuwa na sheria nzuri, watu kama Mugabe, Mkapa, huyu wa Sudan, nk wangekuwa more accountable for their actions. Sasa wenzangu Wairan...imekula kwao. Whether kura zimeibiwa au vipi, nadhani wananchi hawajafurahishwa na matokeo. Na hawana kimbilio lingine mpaka the next elections.
     
  14. MwanaFalsafa1

    MwanaFalsafa1 JF-Expert Member

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    Lakini jiulize kwa nini Iran ipo mbele yetu kimaendeleo? Ni kwa sababu viongozi wao wanaweka nchi mbele na what ever they do is what they think is best for the country and not themselves. For us the rule of law is the law of the rulers. I always say mfumo wetu mbovu lakini watu wanabisha wanasema tatizo ni viongozi. Kama mfumo ungekua mzuri hao viongozi wabovu wasinge pata nafasi na hata wangepata wasingekua na nguvu ya kuendesha kila kitu.
     
  15. Chapakazi

    Chapakazi JF-Expert Member

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    I beg to differ...Iran iko mbele kwanza kwa sababu zifuatazo:
    1. Ina historia ndefu kuliko sisi. Iran (Persia) kama wewe ni Mkristo na unajua biblia, utajua hii Falme ni ya enzi gani. Ama sivyo nadhani utakuwa umeshasikia the Persian Empire. Ni watu walio na a very rich culture. Wamekuwa Waislamu juzi tu...meaning no earlier than 500AD.

    2. Mafuta. Iran ni ya pili baada ya Saudi Arabia katika production quotas za OPEC. Hii inamaanisha kuwa wanapata kipato kikubwa sana kwenye uuzaji wa mafuta.

    Iran ilikuwa under power abuse mpaka revolution yao mwaka 1979. Utawala wa sheria ulikuwa umedorora kutokana na kuwa na dynasty (utawala wa kifalme). Nadhani ni kutokana na tradition hii ndo maana wameamua kuwa na Supreme Leader, unajua tena, huwezi kukimbia tradition zako za miaka elfu kadhaa.

    Sisi ni nchi iliyoanzishwa mwaka 1884, baada ya wazungu kuchora ramani kwenye mkutano wao Berlin. KUMBUKA: hapo ni kuchorwa kwenye ramani tu. Nyerere alijitahidi sana katika kutuleta pamoja chini ya lugha moja, nk. Hapa nampa 10/10, ama sivyo ungekuta leo tumerudi kwenye mambo ya ukabila.
    The next step ni kuleta system nzuri ya kujitiwala, maana hizi tunazofuata leo ni za kuazima. Tunahitaji something original, which caters for our tradition. But going back to my argument, sisi hatuna tradition, maana ni watu tuliokusanywa pamoja kutokana na mapenzi ya wengine. Kwa hiyo labda tubaki kutumia system ya hao waliotukusanya pamoja.
     
  16. MwanaFalsafa1

    MwanaFalsafa1 JF-Expert Member

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    1. Kama kuwepo kwa miaka mingi ndiyo kingekuwa kigezo cha kuwa mbali kimaendeleo basi nchi kama Marekani ambayo ina miaka mia mbili na ushee isingekuwa taifa kubwa kuliko yote duniani. Historia ndefu ya nchi siyo kigezo cha kuwa mbele kimaisha, Ni kama binadamu, siyo lazima mtu aliye na umri mkubwa zaidi ndiyo mwenye mafanikio zaidi....it doesn't work that way.

    2.Again the world's economic power hazi tegemei mafuta. Nchi kama Marakani haija barikiwa na natural resources zaidi yetu. Iran hata kama ina mafuta ni uendeshaji na utekelezaji ndiyo unao fanya wanufaika na hayo mafuta. Mbona sisi tuna kila aina ya madini but we have nothing to show for it?

    Like I said before I don't believe in one man holding power but it seems to be working for them. Iran had an Ayatollah even during the time when they were a kingdom. Ayatollah Khomeini protested against the king at that time and was sent to exile. When he came back the kingdomship was abolished and the Supreme leader became the spiritual and political leader. This is the history in short.

    Whether we were brought together by other people or not is besides the point now. Anyone now who is a Tanzanian is a Tanzanian by choice. Japo hatuku chagua kuzaliwa Watanzania ila ni kwa maamuzi yetu wenyewe tuna baki Watanzania. It is time we moved forward as a nation. Kama wazungu wasingeweka ramani leo hii Tanzania ingekuwa vinchi vidogo dogo vinavyo tokana na makabila kwa sababu ndiyvyo tulivyo kuwa tukiji tawala mwanzo. Lets forget about the past or what could have been. Let's talk about what can be.
     
  17. Chapakazi

    Chapakazi JF-Expert Member

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    Some few clarifications;
    1. Marekani halisi imeanza 1776, lakini je hao waliokuwa huko marekani walitokea wapi? Marekani ilikuwa koloni la nani mpaka kupata uhuru? My point: they came from a country with a rich history. Marekani as it stands today is the product of England...whether u like or not!

    2. Unanifurahisha sana kwa kusema World Economic Powers hazitegemei mafuta. Duh!!
    Inaelekewa hujui consumption ya mafuta marekani ni kubwa kiasi gani, na ni kwa nini marekani imekuwa na interest kubwa sana middle east. Nakupa facts sasa, upo tayari?
    nenda hapa utapata data za 2007: Oil consumption (most recent) by country
    Jumlisha number 2 na 3, na bado hafikii consumption ya Marekani. Unadhani kuwa world super power ni mchezo....hahaha!
    Just as a matter of common sense, kama consumption yako iko kubwa hivyo, hutakuwa na interest katika sehemu hicho kitu kinatoka?
    Nadhani Marekani ina natural resources nyingi kuliko sisi. Sijui kama unajua kitu kinaitwa gold rush.
    Pia nadhani unapotaja natural resource unasahau kuwa land ni mojawapo. The last time i checked, the US was over 10 times bigger than Tanzania. They have massive land mass, which they use efficiently. Au wewe unadhani Marekani ni LA na NY? Unasahau mashamba ya Iowa, Texas, nk, where the real production occurs!

    Pia nadhani umeshindwa kunielewa niliposema sisi tumeanzishwa 1884. My point is we lack a common tradition/culture, which we can use to create a system. Normally u base ur political system, laws kutokana na tradition na culture yenu. Mfano mzuri ni Uingereza - kuwa na Parliamentary System. Anyway...lets hope for the betterment of our system.
     
  18. MwanaFalsafa1

    MwanaFalsafa1 JF-Expert Member

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    Nilipo sema Marekani haitegemei mafuta nili maanisha hawauzi mafuta kama wakina Iran na Saudi Arabia meaning siyo lazima nchi iwe na mafuta kuwa tajiri. nadhani kwenye hili we were lost in translation.

    Ndiyo Wamarekani wametoka England lakini ni wakina nani haswa walitoka England? Waingereza waliotoka England kwennda Marekani walikuwa wale ambao ni peasants au commoners. Hawa ndiyo walikuwa the lowest class. Kisa cha kuondoka Uingereza ni kwa sababu Uingereza kwa wakati huo uki zaliwa class fulani utakufa class fulani. Kulikuwa hamna njia ya kuzaliwa masikini halafu utajirike.

    The Parliamentary system was a compromise. Watu walichoka mfalme/malikia kuwa na nguvu zote. Ndiyo maana bunge lao kuna House of Lord-hawa hawa chaguliwi na wananchi na ni watu wanaotoka kwenye nobility na House of Commons ambao ndiyo walikuwa commoners wanao chaguliwa na wananchi wa kawaida.
     
  19. Chapakazi

    Chapakazi JF-Expert Member

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    No...no i did understand u kwenye la mafuta. My reply was meant to show you that, Oil is a key product katika maendeleo kwa era hii tunayoishi. Katika kukuonyesha consumption ya Marekani, kusudi langu lilikuwa kukuonyesha jinsi utumiaji wake ulivyo mkubwa, na hii ina-link back to success ya Iran. Sijui umenielewa. Yani ukiangalia hapo, they both share a common denominator...OIL. Mmoja consumer, mwingine producer. Sisi tunashare a common denominator na nani? On one hand, we are just a very ordinary country, with nothing special to offer.
    Am glad point ya marekani umeielewa vizuri na kui-expand. Na ndio maana ukiangalia marekani, hawana classes sana, na wana a written constitution inayozungumzika haki sawa kwa kila mtu, kitu ambacho Uingereza hawana. Hili linatokana na hizo classes walizozikimbia uingereza. Hichi ni kitu ambacho founding fathers wa marekani walihakikisha kinakuwepo.

    Back to the point of debate, Unaweza kunipa nchi iliyopo katika nchi zilizoendelea ambayo haina a history of at least 400+years? Maana kama sikosei unasema historia haina nafasi katika maendeleo. Au nimekosea?
     
  20. MwanaFalsafa1

    MwanaFalsafa1 JF-Expert Member

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    Ok la mafuta we are on the same page right now.

    Kuhusu historia ya nchi. Unajua nchi yoyote haiwezi kubaki juu siku zote. Kuna
    Wamisri na falme za West Africa ambao ndiyo walikuwa watu wa kwanza kuwa na vyuo vikuu na watu walikuja mbali kupata elimu mfano Timbaktu. Kukaja Wagiriki na Warumi waka tawala dunia na kuwa mataifa yenye nguvu mwishoni yakafa. Persia which includes hiyo Iran chini ya Alexander the Great wali tawala 1/3 ya dunia. Wakaja Uingereza wakawa na territories zinazo fikia 2/3 ya dunia lakini nayo ika pungua nguvu na kuipisha Marekani.

    Kama nilivyo sema mwanzo Marekani kama Marekani ime zaliwa miaka 200 na iliyo pita. Kuna nchi kama Canada iliyo zaliwa 1867. Kuna nchi pia kama Australia ambayo Waingereza waliitumia kutupa wahalifu wao huko.
     
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