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Ubepari unaporomoka, What's Next?

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Kigarama, Aug 14, 2011.

  1. Kigarama

    Kigarama JF-Expert Member

    #1
    Aug 14, 2011
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    Kwa zaidi ya Miongo miwili sasa (2 decade ) nchi zinazoendelea na maskini sana duniani ziliaminishwa kwamba kwa kufuata mfumo wa kibepari nchi hizo zitaokoka katika janga la kuangamia kiuchumi kwenye "dunia kijiji" au al maarufu Global village.

    Lakini sasa mfumo huo wa Kibepari unaporomoka kama ulivyoporomoka mfumo wa kikomunisti Urusi. Kama mbadala wa Ukomunisti na Ushoshalisti ulikuwa ni ubepari na ubepari sasa unaporomoka ni nini kitaziba ombwe litakalosababishwa na kuporomoka kwa ubepari? Tulikuwa tunaambiwa hata humu ndani tuliambiwa pia. "ujamaa ulituchelewesha kuendelea" Je sasa tuna haja ya kujivunia ubepari?

    Maneno kama vile "Austerity" "Slump" au "Crunch" pia "Recession" tumekutana na " Budget talks stalemate in US" kuna hili pia "china hold 45% of US bond" na mengineyo mengi ni dalili za kuanguka kwa mfumo wa kibepari.

    Ni mawazo tu usikasirike.
     
  2. Kigarama

    Kigarama JF-Expert Member

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    Hatari ninayoiona ni kwa nini huwa hatujadili mambo yanayogusa maisha yetu katika uchumi halafu tunawashaanga wanasiasa wetu kujadili mambo "mepesi mepesi" bungeni. Amini usiamini wabunge wetu hata wale wa CCM wanaakisi (Reflect) jinsi sisi tulivyo.
     
  3. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #3
    Aug 16, 2011
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    Tatizo ni kuwa watu hawajui kuwa ubepari umejengwa kwenye nadharia ya uongo; nadharia kuwa personal gratification and individual maximization of profit is the ultimate end of human existence. For quite sometime this fallacy has been extended to a dogma of personal wealth. Bahati mbaya.. hiyo view is unsustainable.

    Nyerere alisema "development is for men, by men"; nadharia hii leo inaonekana ni kweli kabisa kwamba maendeleo ni ya watu siyo vitu; leo hii kila kona ya US utakuna na majengo yaliyo matupu ambayo yaliwahi kuwa na makampuni ya kila namna; mengi yamekuwa boarded kwa sababu hakuna mtu wa kuyakodi tena; vikosi vya polisi vinafungwa, biashara zinafungwa kwa sababu sehemu kubwa ilikuwa ni kuendeleza vitu.

    Mgororo huu wa kiuchumi umelazimisha matajiri wa dunia hii (tumemuona Buffett jana) kujichunguza na kutambua kuwa matajiri hawawezi kuendelea at the expense of the poor na vile vile utajiri ambao unaondolewa kutoka katika context ya maisha ya jamii kubwa ni utajiri ambao unajiandaa kupewa changamoto na umma. Ndio matokeo ya Misri, Tunisia na hata sasa tunaona Uingereza na sitoshangaa kuyaona yakitokea Ufaransa au hata hapa Marekani.

    Dunia inalazimishwa kuangalia political ideologies ambazo zimejenga jamii mbalimbali for the past 50 years. Je zinaweza kuiongoza dunia for the next fifty years? NI mabadiliko gani yanahitaji kati ya mahusiano ya uchumi na utawala, watawala na wataliwa, sheria na haki, utu na nafasi na vitu kama hivyo?

    One thing is clear, the current social-economic paradigm is unsustainable and indefensible.
     
  4. SHERRIF ARPAIO

    SHERRIF ARPAIO JF-Expert Member

    #4
    Aug 16, 2011
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    Mwanakijiji, nimekupata.
    Swali: Kwa hiyo unadhani ni mfumo gani ambao ni bora na utaweza ku-replace capitalism?
     
  5. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #5
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    siyo kureplace capitalism - hatuwezi kuondoka na capitalism; tunazungumzia balancing capitalism au tunaweza tukasema ni modern capitalism in contrast to classical capitalism. In other words we need a new synthesis of a modern economic theory. We are talking about a theory that will describe a modern political system which will explain the relation between private capital and public good, foreign investment and local needs, laws and order as they relate to human rights and justice. Lakini kubwa zaidi ni theory ambyo itaangalia private property and private consolidation of wealth as they impact or relate to the needs of the large community.
     
  6. SHERRIF ARPAIO

    SHERRIF ARPAIO JF-Expert Member

    #6
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    Hapo umenena na nakubaliana nawe 110%. Solution sio ku-replace capitalism na Socialism/communism
     
  7. Ndahani

    Ndahani JF-Expert Member

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    Aug 16, 2011
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    Ndio hapo sasa inakuwa ngumu kumsahau Nyerere! Aliona kule ambako wengi hawaoni
     
  8. MJIMPYA

    MJIMPYA JF-Expert Member

    #8
    Aug 17, 2011
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    Ndg haya yanayotokea yamewahi kutoke kwenye mataifa hayo hayo tena kwa kiwango kikubwa kuliko unachokiona sa hivi, na si mara moja. Mi nadhani ni mapito ya kiuchumi kama ilivyowahi kutoke nyuma. Sisemi kwamba ubepari ni 100% perfect ila huwezi kusema haraka kwa matukio haya kuwa umeshindwa maana ulishapita makubwa kuliko haya ya sasa.
    China kuwa na 45% ya US debt, hii wengi wanaiongea kisiasa, in short China export yao kubwa ni USA, so they receive a lot of USD, actually they have a very big reserve of USD. As a country (with centralised economy) they need to invest this money (which could have been done by private bsnes if it was not a centralised economy), there is no other economy (bond markt) in the world they can invest such huge amount except USA. If they stop investing in US, their currency will go up, their export will dwindle and unemployment will rise plus other economic problems.
    So China is traped, they dont have option except to invest in US, they rip interest of more than $17mil a day. Good deal!
     
  9. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #9
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    Mji mpya how do you explain the level of poverty in the US and how would you explain the role of the central and state governments in the initial and continued wealth creation in these States?
     
  10. The Boss

    The Boss JF-Expert Member

    #10
    Aug 17, 2011
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    hata sijui nyerere anaingia vipi hapa....
    au ni kwa kuwa mko in love na nyerere????????

    hiyo china aliyokuwa anaiga nyerere iko wapi leo hii?

    hivi kuna mtu anaweza kutufafanulia sweden,denmark,finland wanatumia model ipi ya uchumi??????/
     
  11. M

    Mkandara Verified User

    #11
    Aug 17, 2011
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    Samahani mkuu wangu China don't need USA bali USA need China right now than ever..Uchumi wa nchi kama India, Brazil, Germany na Asia ya kusini unazidi kukua vibaya sana na kote huko kuna Population na wanahitaji waendelea ktk sekta zote za kiuchumi. China imejipanga vema na nchi hizo kuliko USA na hata Afrika China imekamata sehemu nyingi za miradi mikubwa kuliko mataifa makubwa.

    In short baada ya miaka 20 ijayo China itakuwa super power, investment zake kona zote za dunia bila kuwa na maadui wakati USA ina poteza hata sehemu chache walizokamata kwa nguvu kuwekeza mali zao kwani haya yanayotokea Venezuela, Brazil, Iran, Misri na kadhalika yote ni kupotea kwa investment zao. Soon watagundua wanashindwa Afghanstan na Iraq na ndio imetoka kilichobakia ni Afrika nchi kama Tanzania tuliovaa mkenge...

    Ubepari Unashindwa na in times of world monetary crisis yawezekana tukarudi ktk dunia ya Adam kutumia Barter exchange system badala ya kuendeleas kuthaminisha karatasi zilzochapishwa viwandani..
     
  12. SHERRIF ARPAIO

    SHERRIF ARPAIO JF-Expert Member

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    Good analysis and well written!
     
  13. mfereji maringo

    mfereji maringo JF-Expert Member

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    nimejifuoza sana leo, asante jf.
     
  14. SHERRIF ARPAIO

    SHERRIF ARPAIO JF-Expert Member

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    Hapo kwenye dark mkuu sio sahihi na naomba ukachimbe monetary economics zaidi utapata jibu la uhakika based on facts na sio ushabiki.
    Kuwa superpower kwa namna moja ama nyingine kutaambatana na a lot of events. Let's say kesho tunaamka na tunasikia Al Qaeda wanapreach kuwa China is their enemy #1 or 2 after US.
    Do you think China will be the same country, and its economy will be the same?
     
  15. M

    Mkandara Verified User

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    Listen mkuu wangu economics ya vitabu haifanyi kazi tena.. Sisi toka Mwinyi tulianza na SAP hadi MKUKUTA over ten strategies, nchi ndio inazidi kuzama na ukisoma vitabu vyote vinakwambia nchi maskini inahitaji wawekezaji sijui kubinafsisha!.. Mbona tunazidi kuadhirika hakuna hata nafuu..
    China haiihitaji US amini maneno yangu na sababu ni cheap Labour kisha sasa hivi vitu vyote Original vinatengenezwa China imefikia hadi magari, viwanda na vifaa vyote vya nyenzo kwa matumizi ya dunia nzima kwa sababu China wana wasomi ktk fani zote.. Vumbua kitu lete blue print kesho wanakutolea vile vile at the lowest cost hakuna siasa. Maisha kweli yanapanda hata China lakini kumbuka China has 1.5 billion people with over 200,000 living outside China na majority are doing well hata nje.. And besides all hardly uses (buy) foreign commodities - Utapata wapi taifa kama hilo wanajiingiza kila kona ya dunia na wanakubalika tena, USA pekee wameshika miji yote kuna ChinaTown na wanafanya biashara zote huku mali zao (almost all) comes from China. nenda Europe na sasa wanavamia Afrika, yaani mkuu wangu China kitu kingine kabisa ni kama mchwa..Hawa hawana mahesabu ya kiuchumi hata kidogo.
     
  16. Sungi

    Sungi Senior Member

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    Aug 17, 2011
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    Ubepari maana yake nini Kigarama? Uchambuzi wako juu ya kuporomoka kwa ubepari ni rahisi mno (too simplistic). Vitu unavyorejea kama ushahidi wa kuporomoka havitoshi kuashiria kuporomoka kwa ubepari bali ulafi wa baadhi ya wahodhi mali hasa Marekani, kama vile kutoa mikopo ya kununua nyumba kwa watu ambao wakuwa na uwezo wa kulipa madeni yao, vita mbili za Iraq na Afghanistan ambazo zilinakula madhuhuli ya walipa kodi hapa Marekani. Sera za kibepari za masoko huru na ushindani ndizo zilizoifanya China ifike hapa ilipo. Ubepari bado upo hai na utakuwa kama mfumo kwa muda mrefu sana.
     
  17. SHERRIF ARPAIO

    SHERRIF ARPAIO JF-Expert Member

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    Unajua soko kubwa la bidhaa za China liko wapi?
     
  18. H

    Hofstede JF-Expert Member

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    Mwanakijiji, this theory is already in place, but capitalists are trying to demagoge it as it reduces their concentration of wealthy(They now term it as spread the wealth). They use political spectrum via the rightwing ideology to kill it. As you have mentioned there will be no harmone between society and the corporate if the earlier are exploited. People are arguing that regulations hurt jobs creation and business development but it is party of the theory, the resistance to tax increase on the wealthy is part of the strategy, untill the poor realises that they are manipuated for exploitation, they would not vote for anyone who opposes the new model. If you look at the US political debate, it is clear that the coporate society is using Republicans to strengthen thier resistance to the new model.

    This model is known as Corporate Social Responsibility (CSR, also called corporate conscience, corporate citizenship, social performance, or sustainable responsible business) is a form of corporate self-regulation integrated into a business model. CSR policy functions as a built-in, self-regulating mechanism whereby business monitors and ensures its active compliance with the spirit of the law, ethical standards, and international norms. The goal of CSR is to embrace responsibility for the company's actions and encourage a positive impact through its activities on the environment, consumers, employees, communities, stakeholders and all other members of the public sphere
     
  19. Kobello

    Kobello JF-Expert Member

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    Mnachoshindwa kuelewa China ni mabepari kuliko US...jumla ya bidhaa made in China zinazonunuliwa US ni merely 2.7%.Na ni upotoshaji mkubwa ukisema China inahodhi 45% of US DEBT,ukweli ni only 8%,wamarekani wanahodhi asilimia kubwa ya deni lao.
    Uchumi wa marekani unakua vizuri waki-implement socialistic policies,kuliko wakikumbatia capitalists policies.I got facts,ukiona uvivu kufuatilia I will be more than happy to copy and paste them.
     
  20. yutong

    yutong JF-Expert Member

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    Tutarudi kwenye ujamaa
     
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