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Synod 2009 na mtizamo wake dhidi ya Afrika

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Kieleweke, Oct 18, 2009.

  1. K

    Kieleweke Member

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    Wakatoliki kuwakilishwa AU?

    Mkutano (Synod) wa maaskofu wa Kikatoliki kutoka Africa ulioitishwa na Papa Benedict XVI unaendelea huko Vatican kwenye makao makuu ya kanisa hilo. Maaskofu kadhaa wamekuwa wakitoa kauli au nyaraka nzito zinazochangamkiwa na waandishi wengi duniani wakati waandishi wa nchini Tanzania ni kama vile tukio hilo halipo.

    Moja ya waraka ambao umesomwa duniani kote ni nia ya maaskofu wakatoliki kupata kiti cha ujumbe katika Umja wa Africa (AU) kama vile Vatican ilivyo mjumbe katika umoja wa Mataifa.

    Wale wenzetu wenye kupenda kukimbilia hoja ya "kulinda umoja wa kitaifa" sijui sasa watasemaje maana hizi hoja zinatolewa huko Roma au Vatican ambako dunia yote inangalia kila kinachotamkwa. Labda sasa waje na hoja ya kusema "kulinda umoja wa kidunia" maana kilichotajwa ni bara zima la Africa.

    Soma mwenyewe hapa chini bonyeza mwenyewe kwenye website hii

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    VATICAN, October 9, 2009(CISA):

    Bishops Propose Catholic Representation at African Union

    The Catholic Church could seek formal representation in the African Union to improve the church-s work in justice and peace on the continent.


    Archbishop Berhaneyesus Demerew Souraphiel of Addis Ababa, the AU headquarters, made the suggestion at the second African Synod underway in Rome.

    -It is my hope that the Holy See appoints a permanent representative to the AU who should attend all the meetings whenever they take place and who could keep in personal contact with the Catholic members of that important institution,- Archbishop Souraphiel said.

    -This special representative preferably would have diplomatic credentials comparable to the one of an Apostolic Nuncio,- he explained.

    The idea received the support of the bishops of Southern Africa. The Southern Africa Bishops' Conference would like to endorse Archbishop Berhaneyesus Souraphiel's (Addis Ababa) suggestion that a full time Catholic permanent representative be appointed to the African Union, with more than simply observer status,- Auxiliary Bishop Barry Wood of Durban told the Synod.

    Archbishop Souraphiel said that a Catholic representative could be appointed to the AU to be fully committed and available for his mission in such a way that he may attend the meetings and meet the persons who have key influence in the decision making process.

    -The same representative at the AU is needed by a representative of the Symposium of Episcopal Conferences of Africa and Madagascar (SECAM), at least on an observer level, so that the Catholic Church in Africa has a voice in the AU and becomes an encouragement to its lay Catholic faithful working in the AU,- the prelate said.

    He reiterated the local Church of Ethiopia renewed commitment to do their -best to welcome such special representatives from the Holy See or from SECAM and, in case, they want to reside in Addis Ababa to facilitate their work and to collaborate with their mission.

    - I am sure that the AU would be willing to accept such persons and the Catholic Lay members of that body would feel particularly supported by the Catholic Church in their mission,- the archbishop said.

    According to the prelate almost 50 percent of the members of AU are of the Catholic Church and the Apostolic Nuncio in Ethiopia is invited to attend the general assemblies of the AU whenever they take place in Addis Ababa as an observer.
     
  2. PakaJimmy

    PakaJimmy JF-Expert Member

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    I personally dont see any discrepancy wityh that! Kama UN Vatican wana uwakilishi na hakuna baya lililotokea, nadhani hiyo ni just matter of application, then kama unaonekana una hoja na sababu zilizosimama, unakubaliwa!Ni ngumu sana kutenganisha dini na siasa! Hapo ieleweke kwamba Maaskofu Wakatoliki hawana machinery yoyote ya kulazimisha jambo hilo liwe kama watakavyo, lakini wanaingia kwa hoja zinaozonekana kukonga members wote, ambapo pia katiba haivunjwi!Acha tu waingie huko, huenda baraka za Kimungu zikawa zinainyemelea Africa!
     
  3. Buchanan

    Buchanan JF Diamond Member

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    Kazi yao kama walivyosema ni kutafuta amani, sasa tatizo liko wapi? Si unaona hata Papa huwa anakanyaga maeneo ya Kiarabu na anapokelewa hata misikitini wakati akina GW Bush wanarushiwa viatu?
     
  4. S

    S. S. Phares JF-Expert Member

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    These guys are smart, really smart..
     
  5. Bluray

    Bluray JF-Expert Member

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    Kiti cha Vatican UN kinaweza kusemwa ni cha kutokana na Vatican kuwa a sovereign nation in the world.Sasa hawa wanaotaka kiti AU wanataka kwa minajili gani wakati nijuavyo mimi Vatican haiko Afrika?

    Tukiwapa kesho waSaudi nao wakitaka kiti? Tutawakatalia? Tukiwakatalia tutakataa kwa msingi gani? Tukikubali hii itakuwa AU au UN ya pili?
     
  6. PakaJimmy

    PakaJimmy JF-Expert Member

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    Be specific YEBOYEBO, which guys are smart!Talk something to be understood by the intended audience c`mon!
     
  7. PakaJimmy

    PakaJimmy JF-Expert Member

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    Get to a very simple understanding Bluray! Hapa haikusemwa Vatican inataka kuweka uwakilishi AU, bali maaskofu wa Africa walitoa taarifa ya nia yao kushawishi wawe na uwakilishi katika AU, wakiwa kwenye mkutano(synod) uliofanyika Vatican! Simple!
     
  8. K

    Kisanduku Member

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    Vatican haina kiti katika UN japo ni sovereign country. Kule UN wanenda kwa sovereignity ya Holy See yaani uongozi wa Kanisa Katoliki. Hilo lilishajadiliwa na mmoja wetu humuhumumu JF siku zilizopita. Usione ajabu Vatican nayo ikaomba kiti hicho na hata ubalozi kwani balozi zilizopo si za Vatican kama inavyozoeleka isipokuwa ni za Holy See.
    Hivyo UN inawezekana kabisa Hole See ikaendelea na membership yake na ikaomba membership ya Vatican City State pia.
    Msingi ni kwamba Holy See na Vatican ni vitu viwili tofauti. Moja ni sovereighn county nyingine ni sovereigny state.

    Kwa sababu ndiyo wameanza kuleta hoja basi tusubiri tuone watakuja na hoja gani. Kwani Holy See mliyozoea kuiita Vatican iko katika agency nyingi tu kM vile Nuclear Non-Ploriferation Treaty nakadhalika. Hivyo haitakuwa ajabu Holy See kuomba na hata kuruhusiwa kuingia kwenye AU.

    Suala la wengine kuomba hili si la msingi sana. Wamejaribu sana kuomba UN membership wakitanguliza hoja kwamba mbona Holy See imo lakini hoja hizi zikawa finyu na zikakataliwa.
     
  9. Tumain

    Tumain JF-Expert Member

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    Wakaeneze ukatoliki africa siyo? hakuna la maana wanataka ku-christinize africa...through startegic influence/
    wanasaidia nini common man in the street wale waleeeeeeeeee
     
  10. PakaJimmy

    PakaJimmy JF-Expert Member

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    Chizi jamvini...huh!
     
  11. Bluray

    Bluray JF-Expert Member

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    Mimi nafikiri viti vya AU viwe reserved kwa African sovereign nations.Hata other African institutions zisiruhusiwe, ama sivyo litakuwa bonge la zoo ambapo kila muuza vitumbua na chama chake atapata precedent ya kuomba uanachama, halafu zitazuka issues za types za uanachama zikaleta first and second class members.

    Hivi chama cha waganga wa mitishamba wa kiafrika chenye members worldwide kinaweza kuomba uanachama/ uwakilishi EU?
     
  12. Tumain

    Tumain JF-Expert Member

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    Mwehu jamvini kh!
     
  13. t

    tibwilitibwili Senior Member

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    Bora sasa tukae kimya tuone nini kina endelea . Ufanunuzi wa nini Vatican na Holy Sea tafadhali upeleke magomeni kuna watu pale hawaelewi hili.
     
  14. Balantanda

    Balantanda JF-Expert Member

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    1.St.Augustine University of Tanzania-Mwanza&Iringa

    2.St.Joseph College of Engineering Mbezi,Dar

    2.Bugando Referal Medical Centre,Mwanza

    3.Peramiho Hospital,Songea

    4.Igogwe Hospital,Tukuyu,Mbeya

    5.Mwambani Designated District Hospital,Chunya,Mbeya

    6.Kijiji cha Matumaini,Kisasa,Dodoma

    7.Centre For Mentally Retarded Children – Ifakara

    8.Dispensaries za na Vituo vya Afya Tanzania nzima.Soma hapa chini :- http://www.rc.net/tanzania/tec/hdsm.htm

    http://www.rc.net/tanzania/tec/hsongea.htm

    http://www.rc.net/tanzania/tec/hmwanza.htm

    http://www.rc.net/tanzania/tec/harusha.htm

    9.Shule za msingi na Sekondari na huduma nyingine za jamii(hii ni taarifa ya siku nyingi kidogo):-
    he Catholic Church has contributed highly in the social service sector. From the start of evangelization the missionaries insisted on both education and health. In 1968 when the Church was celebrating the first centenary of evangelization, it was running 1378 primary schools, 44 secondary schools, 8 teacher training colleges, 15 trade schools and 48 homecraft centers. The Church had then 25 hospitals, 75 dispensaries, 74 maternity clinics and 11 medical training schools.

    In 1970, all primary, secondary and Teacher Training schools were nationalized. When the situation allowed, the Church started again building schools. In 1991 the Church had 413 kindergartens, 82 secondary schools including 23 junior seminaries, 73 technical and vocational schools, 48 homecraft centers for girls, 2 Teacher Training Colleges and 6 schools for the handicapped.

    In the medical sector the Church runs 36 hospitals including a 850-bed consultant hospital of Bugando Mwanza, and 223 heath centers and dispensaries.

    The religious women, both missionaries and local, play a big rote in running these social service institutions. Partner Churches in Europe and America, particularly Germany, Holland and Italy have helped much in building and maintaining these institutions.

    To strengthen their social services sector, the two Church bodies that is the Protestants under the Christian Council of Tanzania (CCT) and the Catholics under the Tanzania Episcopal Conference (TEC), in 1992 assisted by the German partner Churches negotiated a "Memorandum of Understanding" with the Tanzania government. In this memorandum the government recognized the important role played by the Churches in the social services sector of the country, pledged to help the Churches by sharing with them grants from foreign government and promised never to nationalize the church institutions again. The "Memorandum of Understanding" authorized the forming of the "Christian Social Services Commission"(CSSC). TEC and CCT are each represented by the General Secretary and four bishops. The Commission has two executive organs, the Christian Medical Board of Tanzania (CMBT) and the Christian Education Board of Tanzania (CEBT) for health and education respectively. This commission formulates common policies for the Education and medical Services of the Churches and negotiates with the Tanzania government in the name of the churches. The two executive organs run common programs. The churches together run more than 50% of the Medical Services and secondary schools in the country.

    Tumain,punguza UDINI ndugu yangu,hausaidii hata kidogo.Sana sana unapandikiza MBEGU mbaya ya CHUKI miongoni mwa jamii.Matunda ya hili ni ukosefu wa AMANI
     
  15. Tumain

    Tumain JF-Expert Member

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    Balatanda,
    Anza kupunguza wewe kwanza ..ndio useme wengine...kwahiyo..ndio wapewe uwakilishi kwenye political organ (AU)?? does it make sense?
    Hayo yote ulioweka kuna dini zingine nazo zina shule na universities kibao....after all tukianza kujadili hapa source of income ya hizo services ni "TRA" meaning kodi za kila mtu hata mimi utasema udini kwasababu "UKO PROGRAMMED"
    kwako wewe udini ni kama ukiwa na mtazamo nje ya askofu lakini pro-askofu siyo udini...kazi kwelikweli...
     
  16. K

    Kieleweke Member

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    (Source: Vatican)

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    Wengi kwa kutokuwa watafiti walidhani waraka ule wa Kanisa Katoliki ni tamko kali. Kingunge na wenzake walidhani maaskofu watasita. Baadhi walienda mbali hata kutaka kuwazuia maaskofu wasitoe nyaraka au kauli zile. Leo maaskofu wakatoliki wanakutana huko Vatican wakiwa wamekaribishwa na Papa kwenye Synod. Ndipo hapo unapoona ugumu wa kuwazuia maaskofu kutoa kauli zao. Tunaweza kujifanya tunawazua kuzitoa hapa nyumbani. Lakini je, tutawazuiaje kuzitoa nyaraka zao pale Vatican mbele ya Papa na mbele ya dunia nzima. Ni nani hapa mwenye uwezo wa kuzuia nyaraka za Askofu wa Tanzania anayeutoa waraka huo huko Roma na ukaenenea dunia nzima achilia mali Tanzania tu.
    Mfano mzuri ni waraka wa Mhashamu Nobert Mtega askofu Mkuu wa Jimbo Kuu la Songea alioutoa juzi huko Vatican/Roma kwenye Synod.


    Yeye anasema wazi kama ifuatavyo kwamba:

    -viongozi wa serikali za Africa ni wale ambao wanaodhani "amani na utulivu" ni mazingira matulivu yanayowatuhusu kufanya ufisadi kadiri wawezavyo huku wananchi wakiwatizama tu.

    -Viongozi wa Africa wanadhani uchaguzi huru ni ile hali ya wananchi kufika kwenye vituo vya kupiga kura bila kujua haki zao za msingi kama elimu ya uraia.

    -serikali za Africa zinadhani kuchaguliwa ni tiketi ya kuwanyonya wananchi kwa ufisadi.


    Ndiyo maana nauliza ni nani sasa atamgusa Askofu Mtega? Hadi sasa sijaona gazeti lolote duniani likimshambulia. Tena amefanya vizuri kuitoa kauli hiii hukohuko Roma. Angeitolea hapa nyumbani mngeleta kelele kama mlizozileta kwenye waraka. Mara bungeni mara kwa Kingunge mara mumpigie Rais simu siku ya kuzungumuza na watanzania! Synod inasha Octoba 25. Je mtamsubiri pale airport? Je ni nchi gani duniani yenye hatimiliki ya kumkemea Askofu Mtega kwa aliyoyasema mbele ya Papa na dunia nzima.

    Kuhusu nyaraka ilisemwa eti serikali ikutane na taasisi za dini ili kupoza mambo. Ok, kwa Tanzania mtasema mnakutana na Baraza la Maaskofu (TEC). Je kwa kauli hii ya Askofu Mtega ambayo ni kali kuliko kauli zote mtakutana nani? Mtakutana na maaskofu wa Tanzania pekee au maaskofu waafrika wote? Je mtakutana na Papa aliyekubali na ubariki kauli za maaskofu wake wote walioko kwenye Synod huko Roma/Vatican.

    Hapo inatosha kabisa kuona kujaribu kulizuia Kanisa Katoliki kutoa nyaraka au kauli ni sawa na kuziba tundu la maji kwa kutumia udongo. Mnawazuia kutoa kauli zao hapa nchini kesho wanapanda ndege hadi Roma na kisha wanatoa kauli ambayo hukutegemea ingetoka tena ikitoka kwenda dunia nzima, afadhali na ule waraka ulisambaa Tanzania tu.


    Someni kauli ya Askofu Norbert Mtega hapa chini au bonyeza kwenye website hii yenye kauli za maaskofu waliotoa kauli zao juzi tarehe 15 Octoberwengi na yake ikwemo

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    VATICAN, October 15, 2009
    Presenter: Archbishop Norbert Wendelin Mtega of Songea, Tanzania.
    Topic: Ethnicity is a Cancer which Torments Africa

    Many of our people are tortured, harassed and assassinated simply due to unfounded malicious suspicions fomented by sorcery and witchdoctors. There are no laws to defend them, governments do condone, some leaders do conspire with the witchdoctors, some governments do legalize. Many leaders do believe in sorcery, superstition and occultism. Required: Deeper evangelisation, advocacy and prophetic voice to our governments.

    The survival of our farmers is precarious. Often their plight does not feature in the budgets of our governments and very often they are cheated. The Church in Africa must fight for farmers and pastoralists: That they must get their right share in the Budget that basic infrastructures and basic needs for their work and products are guaranteed, that arrangements be made for stable and good markets, that internal markets be protected, and that they be initiated to saving and lending micro-finance cooperatives.

    For our politicians peace means `a quiet atmosphere which allows them to rob and enjoy the money of their countries'. For them, free and fair elections means ` success to bring people to the polls in total ignorance of their inherent rights' and of the malicious maneuvers by the candidates. Politicians believe that being elected means being given the ticket to rob the country.

    We love Moslems. It is our history and culture to live with them. But the danger which threatens Africa's freedom, sovereignty, democracy and human rights is first the Islamic political factor, i.e., the intended plan and the clear process of `identifying Islam with politics and vice versa' in each of our African countries. Secondly it is the Islamic monetary factor whereby huge sums of money from outside countries is being poured in our countries to destabilize peace in our countries and to eradicate Christianity.

    Ethnicity is a cancer which torments Africa. We must immediately inculcate reconciliation as our spirituality and life as well as our immediate action.

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  17. Bluray

    Bluray JF-Expert Member

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    The AU charter says this about membership

    Sasa hao wa Vatican / Holy See wataomba membership kwa minajili gani wakati wao si African state?
     
  18. S

    S. S. Phares JF-Expert Member

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    Duh...ama kweli tuna kazi sana...yaani mkuu kweli huoni ambacho Katoliki wanamsaidia "common man"?

    Usiangalie hoja hii kwa misingi ya kidini, utaielewa vizuri tu.
     
  19. S

    S. S. Phares JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu kwani wamesema wataona uanachama kama State?
     
  20. Balantanda

    Balantanda JF-Expert Member

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    Nimekujibu Swali lako ulilouliza Wakatoliki wanasaidiaje A common man in the street,wala sikulenga kuonesha ni DINI(DHEHEBU????) gani lililo bora katika kutoa huduma za jamii
     
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