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Speed of Light 'May Have Been Broken'

Discussion in 'Tech, Gadgets & Science Forum' started by simplemind, Sep 23, 2011.

  1. simplemind

    simplemind JF-Expert Member

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    Reseachers at CERN have made an astounding 'discovery' with potential to upheaval theoretical physics. In series of experiments the travel time of neutrino particles over a known distance was measured. The computed speed of particles was found to be significantly greater than speed of light and hence contradicting Einsteins theory of relativity which states that the speed of light is the ultimate speed and that no particle can surpass the limit. Naturally the reseachers are baffled and termed the results as ' crazy' cause the consequences for theoretical physics are pretty serious. Time will tell.
     
  2. Steve Dii

    Steve Dii JF-Expert Member

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    Speed-of-light experiments give baffling result at Cern

    Puzzling results from Cern, home of the Large Hadron Collider, have confounded physicists because subatomic particles seem to have beaten the speed of light. Neutrinos sent through the ground from Cern toward the Gran Sasso laboratory 732km away in Italy seemed to show up a tiny fraction of a second early.

    The result - which threatens to upend a century of physics - were put online for scrutiny by other scientists.
    In the meantime, the group says it is being very cautious about its claims.

    [​IMG]

    They will be discussing the result in detail in a conference at Cern on Friday afternoon, which can be viewed online.
    "We tried to find all possible explanations for this," said report author Antonio Ereditato of the Opera collaboration.
    "We wanted to find a mistake - trivial mistakes, more complicated mistakes, or nasty effects - and we didn't," he told BBC News.
    "When you don't find anything, then you say 'Well, now I'm forced to go out and ask the community to scrutinise this.'"
    Caught speeding?

    The speed of light is the Universe's ultimate speed limit, and much of modern physics - as laid out in part by Albert Einstein in his theory of special relativity - depends on the idea that nothing can exceed it.

    Thousands of experiments have been undertaken to measure it ever more precisely, and no result has ever spotted a particle breaking the limit.
    But Dr Ereditato and his colleagues have been carrying out an experiment for the last three years that seems to suggest neutrinos have done just that.

    Neutrinos come in a number of types, and have recently been seen to switch spontaneously from one type to another.
    The team prepares a beam of just one type, muon neutrinos, sending them from Cern to an underground laboratory at Gran Sasso in Italy to see how many show up as a different type, tau neutrinos.

    In the course of doing the experiments, the researchers noticed that the particles showed up 60 billionths of a second sooner than light would over the same distance - a tiny fractional change, but a consistent one. The team measured the travel times of neutrino bunches some 15,000 times, and have reached a level of statistical significance that in scientific circles would count as a formal discovery.

    But the group understands that what are known as "systematic errors" could easily make an erroneous result look like a breaking of the ultimate speed limit, and that has motivated them to publish their measurements.

    "My dream would be that another, independent experiment finds the same thing - then I would be relieved," Dr Ereditato said.
    But for now, he explained, "we are not claiming things, we want just to be helped by the community in understanding our crazy result - because it is crazy". "And of course the consequences can be very serious."


    Source: BBC Science News. BBC News - Speed-of-light experiments give baffling result at Cern
     
  3. i411

    i411 JF-Expert Member

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    dunia hii inamaajabu da sasa vitabu vinatakiwa viandikwe upya tena
     
  4. Steve Dii

    Steve Dii JF-Expert Member

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    Yeah, itatubidi turudi madarasani kuchimbua kwa tafsiri nyingine tena Abbotts na Nelkon zetu... lol
     
  5. X-PASTER

    X-PASTER Moderator

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    Sep 24, 2011
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    Speed of Light 'May Have Been Broken'

    [​IMG]
    The Super Proton Synchrotron (SPS) tunnel, located at the Cern particle research centre near Geneva. Photograph:
    Cern-INFS/Reuters


    An international team of scientists said last night they had recorded sub-atomic particles travelling faster than light - a finding that could overturn one of Einstein's long-accepted fundamental laws of the universe.

    Antonio Ereditato, spokesman for the researchers, said measurements taken over three years showed neutrinos pumped from Cern near Geneva to Gran Sasso in Italy had arrived 60 nanoseconds quicker than light would have done.

    "We have high confidence in our results. We have checked and rechecked for anything that could have distorted our measurements but we found nothing," he said. "We now want colleagues to check them independently."

    If confirmed, the discovery would undermine Albert Einstein's 1905 theory of special relativity, which says that the speed of light is a "cosmic constant" and that nothing in the universe can travel faster.

    That assertion, which has withstood over a century of testing, is one of the key elements of the so-called Standard Model of physics, which attempts to describe the way the universe and everything in it works.



    The totally unexpected finding emerged from research by a physicists working on an experiment dubbed OPERA run jointly by the Cern particle research centre near Geneva and the Gran Sasso Laboratory in central Italy.

    A total of 15,000 beams of neutrinos - tiny particles that pervade the cosmos - were fired over a period of three years from Cern towards Gran Sasso 730km away, where they were picked up by giant detectors. Light would have covered the distance in around 2.4 thousandths of a second, but the neutrinos took 60 nanoseconds - or 60 billionths of a second - less than light beams would have taken.

    "It is a tiny difference," said Mr Ereditato, who also works at Berne University in Switzerland, "but conceptually it is incredibly important. The finding is so startling that, for the moment, everybody should be very prudent."

    Mr Ereditato declined to speculate on what it might mean if other physicists, found that Opera's measurements were correct. "I just don't want to think of the implications," he said. "We are scientists and work with what we know."

    Much science-fiction literature is based on the idea that, if the light-speed barrier can be overcome, time travel might theoretically become possible.

    The existence of the neutrino, an elementary sub-atomic particle with a tiny amount of mass created in radioactive decay or in nuclear reactions such as those in the Sun, was first confirmed in 1934, but it still mystifies researchers.

    It can pass through most matter undetected, even over long distances, and without being affected. Millions pass through the human body every day, scientists say.

    To reach Gran Sasso, the neutrinos pushed out from a special installation at Cern - also home to the Large Hadron Collider investigating the origins of the universe - have to pass through water, air and rock.

    The underground Italian laboratory, some 120kmto the south of Rome, is the largest of its type in the world for particle physics and cosmic research.

    About 750 scientists from 22 different countries work there, attracted by the possibility of staging experiments in its three massive halls, protected from cosmic rays by some 1,400m of rock overhead.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 4, 2016
  6. String Theorist

    String Theorist JF-Expert Member

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    KAMA HIYO EXPERIMENT IKIWA PROVED, basi mambo yatakuwa hivi.
    1. E=MC[SUP]2 [/SUP] where c now is not equal to the speed of light.
    2. the speed of gravitational field is not equal to the speed of light(hapa einsten alisema speed of gravity=speed of light).
    3. now calculations involving nuclear energy/physics must de rechecked.
    4. calculations of binding energy of nucleus must be corrected.
    5. einsten both special and general theory of relativity should be discarded, or modified.
    6. the picture of how gravity is, and how it work is not true as proposed previously by einsten.
    7. there must be a degree of truth for those who criticized E=MC[SUP]2 (INCLUDING HANS OHANIA)
    [/SUP]9. THE mitakes done by Einsten explain why its very hard to unify physics into a single equation.
    10. the equations that shows time deletion,length contraction and the increase of mass when an object travel with speed approaching that of light is not correct.

    TATALY NAONA EINSTEN ANABAKI na EQUATION MOJA TUU.....==PHOTO ELECTRIC EQUATION.
     
  7. Azimio Jipya

    Azimio Jipya JF-Expert Member

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    Sep 24, 2011
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    OMG!! What a*magnificent*news... I have been in both research institutions ... this guys worked day and night!!!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 4, 2016
  8. Azimio Jipya

    Azimio Jipya JF-Expert Member

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    ST,

    Indeed, if this proved independently means a lot! A*revolution*in*physics*and the origin of the universe!!

    There was this guys few years come with ..GRAVITY IS NOT PULL ITS A PUSH and everybody was like ..whhhhatt?
    I think will have to*recheck*with him.. everything must objectively be re examined......

    http://www.fhu.com/gdu.html


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  9. X-PASTER

    X-PASTER Moderator

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    Shock As Einstein 'May Have Been Wrong'
    Amazement As Particles 'Beat Light Speed'

    Scientists from all over the world are examining the results of an experiment that seems to disprove one of the cornerstones of modern physics.

    Experts at the European Organisation for Nuclear Research (Cern) in Switzerland believe they have clocked particles called neutrinos travelling faster than the speed of light.

    But they cannot quite believe it themselves, they say, because according to Einstein's famous 1905 equation, E=mc2, it is simply impossible.
    "The feeling that most people have is this can't be right, this can't be real," said James Gillies, a spokesman for Cern.

    According to Einstein, the speed of light, 186,282 miles per second (299,792km per second) is a "cosmic constant" and nothing in the universe can travel faster, because physical objects have a mass, whereas light does not.

    Cern says a neutrino beam fired from a particle accelerator near Geneva to a lab 454 miles (730km) away in Italy arrived 60 nanoseconds faster than the speed of light.

    The claim has been met with a range of responses from scientists, with some expressing amazement while others dismissed it as a mistake.
    "The feeling that most people have is this can't be right, this can't be real," said James Gillies, a spokesman for Cern.
    He said the readings have so astounded researchers that they are asking others to independently verify the measurements before claiming an actual discovery.

    "They are inviting the broader physics community to look at what they have done and really scrutinise it in great detail," he said.
    Dr David Whitehouse, a space scientist and author, said that if the experiment is proved to be true then it would be a revelation on a par with Einstein's own theories.

    "It is an earthquake, a revolution in physics," he said.
    "As soon as you are arrogant enough to think you understand the universe, the universe comes along and shows you are not right."
    Dr Whitehouse said the findings technically meant that time travel might be possible.

    "Everything is now open - because time, speed and the speed of light are all linked."

    However, one physicist based in Melbourne, Australia, concluded that the startling claim was simply the result of an error.
    Dr John P Costella said the group at Cern had made an "embarrassing gaffe" by miscalculating the experiment's statistical uncertainty.
    "One must conclude that (the team) has simply made a mistake, albeit a highly embarrassing one which has gathered international media coverage," he said.

    University of Maryland physics department chairman Drew Baden called it "a flying carpet", something that was too fantastic to be believable.
    Scientists at the competing Fermilab in Chicago have promised to try to replicate the results.

    "It is a shock," said Fermilab head theoretician Stephen Parke, who was not part of the research in Geneva.
    "It is going to cause us problems, no doubt about that - if it is true."

    The Chicago team had similar faster-than-light results in 2007, but those came with a giant margin of error that undercut its scientific significance.
     
  10. B

    Bukyanagandi JF-Expert Member

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    Sep 25, 2011
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    Haya mambo ya watafiti hawa kusema kwamba chembe za neutrino zina kasi ya kushinda mwanga, mimi nafikili haya ni mambo ya kutafuta publicity STUNT tu za baadhi ya wana sayansi, siamini kama kuna particle yoyote inaweza kushida mwanga kwa kasi; hii inanikumbusha claims abazo ziliwahi kutolewa huko nyuma wakati baadhi ya wanasayansi walipodai kwamba wameweza kufanikiwa katika mahabara kuzalisha nishati kwa kumia 'COLD FUSSION" basi dunia nzima ikashangilia kwamba wamepata a breakthrough kuweza kuzalisha nishati kwa kutumia njia ya Cold Fussion - baadae ikaja gundulika kwamaba claims zao siza kweli.

    We mtu atasemaje kwamba theories/tatafiti za Einstein zime-collapse kwa sababu ya mwendo kasi wa sijuhi nuetrino/pion/muon, how? Kwa mfano take this formula E=mc^2, it has been proven over the years that this formula is dead accurate - proof, nuclear and thermonuclear BOMBS yeild zake za equivalent na tons/Megatons za TNT huwa ni sahii kabisa, hivi wanataka kutwambia kwamba waki-switch spidi ya mwanga kwa spidi za nuetrino hiyo nishati itakayo zalishwa itakuwa na kiwango equivalent na TNT za uvumbuzi wao mpya kwa kutumia mwendo kasi wa nuetrino?
     
  11. Azimio Jipya

    Azimio Jipya JF-Expert Member

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    Sep 25, 2011
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    .... AND IN THAT CASE ... The particle which goes faster than Light ... is not Mass and isnt particle but here is called nuetrino ...Interesting indeed!!!
     
  12. B

    Bukyanagandi JF-Expert Member

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    Sep 26, 2011
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    Hello Azimio Jipya may I ask you a million dollar question if I may "Is light a particle or a wave" oh yes don't go looking at Shrodinger's equation for a CLUE, gooluck.
     
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