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Msimamo wa Chadema haujabadilika

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by paty, Dec 14, 2010.

  1. paty

    paty JF-Expert Member

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    Msimamo wa Chadema haujabadilika
    by Dr. Wilbrod Slaa on Tuesday, December 14, 2010 at 7:29pm

    Kuna taarifa ambazo zimekuwa zikiandikwa na kuripotiwa na vyombo vya habari ambavyo zinaashiria kuwa Chadema tumebadili msimamo wetu kuhusu masuala ya uchaguzi.



    Hakuna mahali popote Chadema imebadili msimamo wake na kusema kuwa Kura hazijaibiwa au kuchakachuliwa. Taarifa niliyotoa jana kwa TBC ilieleza wazi kuwa Kamati Kuu, ilipokea na kujadili na kuridhia mapendekezo yote yaliyowasilishwa na Sekretariat ya Chama kuwa Chadema imekataa matokeo ya Uchaguzi kutokana na irregularities 15. Chadema inaamini kuwa iwapo Katiba ya nchi isingelikuwa imezuia kuhoji matokeo ya uchaguzi Mkuu wa Rais mahakamani, matokeo hayo yangeliweza kubatilishwa. Kwa vile Katiba inakataza kuhoji matokeo kuhojiwa mahakamani, basi japo Kikwete's Presidency ni Lawful it is Illegitimate.



    Chadema ilitumia maneno ya kiingereza kuonyesha tofuati kubwa kati ya maneno hayo mawili. Huo ndio msimamo wa Chadema toka mwanzo na haijawahi kuyumba, japo maneno ya kiswahili yamekuwa yakipewa tafsiri tofauti na watu mbalimbali. Ni kwa msingi huo, Kamati Kuu ikasisitiza " Kuundwa kwa Tume Huru" kuchunguza Dosari " Irregularities" hizo kubwa katika uchaguzi. Nasisitiza, Chadema ni Chama ambacho toka mwanzo ilisisitiza kuwa "Haiko Tayari kuingia Ikulu kwa kumwaga Damu ya Watanzania".



    Inawezekana wanaopenda na kufurahia vurugu, Chadema haiko tayari kwa hali hiyo. Tunasukumwa sana na wapenzi na wanachame wetu kutoka mitaani na kuandamana, na ndicho pia wanachotaka ndugu zetu akina Mwanakijiji. Maandamano, (ya amani au ya kushinikiza), kwa watu wanaojua mchakato wa demokrasia ni hatua ya mwisho kabisa baada ya njia zingine zote kushindikana. Pili, ili Tanzania isiingie katika uchaguzi mkuu ujao wa 2015 kwa Katiba na Sheria mbovu kama tuliyonayo leo, Chadema inasisitiza upatikanaji wa Katiba mpya, Shirikishi na ya Wananchi.



    Upatakanaji wa Katiba hii utakuwa na mchakato, na kama Serikali haitaki, basi Chadema kwa kushirikiana na wadau na watu mbalimbali wakiwemo wananchi itatutumia njia zote zinazoweza kuipatia nchi Katiba ya Wananchi. Yote haya ni mchakato, na kwa mtu yeyote anayoamini kuwa mchakato huchukua muda, basi atakuwa mvumilivu. Hakuna sababu ya kutumia lugha kali, kukashifiana na kutukanana japo jamvi letu ni mahali ambapo "we dare to speak". Tukivumiliana na kuheshimiana tutafika salama bandarini.



    Tukikurupuka tunaweza pia tusifikie lengo tunalotaka. Hekima na busara vikitawala na kuongoza matunda yatakuwa mazuri kwa Taifa letu. Taifa ni letu tukilibomoa hatuna pengine pa kwenda, labda tukiamua kulowea penginepo. Tukikurupuka tunaweza kuwaumiza wanaohusika na wasiohusika. Uvumilivu na Busara daima huvuta heri.
     
  2. Maria Roza

    Maria Roza JF-Expert Member

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    Bravo chadema !
     
  3. MwanaFalsafa1

    MwanaFalsafa1 JF-Expert Member

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    Hapa naona sasa watu wana taka kutumia advantage ya Watanzania kuto kujua lugha ya Kiingereza vizuri kuwa changanya. Kitu kita kuaje "lawful" at the same time "Illegitimate"? Kwa sababu kitu kikisha kuwa lawful ina maana sheria hazija vunjwa hence it means it's illegitimate.

    In short kwenye hili Chadema wakubali wame jichanganya. So they are saying thr president is lawful but the elections which gave the president power is illegitimate? Au wanasema the president is lawful but the elections were illegitimate? Because in both cases it does not make sense.

    Na kama sheria za nchi walikua wana zijua kwa nini wana lalamika baada ya uchaguzi ili hali wakati wanaingia kwenye uchaguzi sheria hizo zili kuwepo???
     
  4. K

    Kipre tchetche JF-Expert Member

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    Siku zote tunajua na tunaamini kuwa
    viongozi wa cdm ni watu makini hivyo
    uma wote wa wtz upo nyuma yenu
    pamoja tutafika Mungu awatie nguvu.
     
  5. T

    Tabby JF-Expert Member

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    Asante Dr Slaa kwa clarifications. Hii ni CHADEMA chama cha watz. Siku zote patience pays. Kinachotakiwa ni na ushirikishwaji wa wa tz kwa vitendo. Ni kweli katiba mpya inahitajika. Kila mtu anajua. Hata jk, kombani wanajua kwamba katiba iliyopo ni outdated lakini kwa sababu ndiyo njia pekee ya kuwalinda wanasema iendelee tu kwa kisingizio cha ukata.!

    Wito wangu kwa CHADEMA kama kiongozi kwa watz wengine wote wapenda haki na maendeleo, anzisheni mchakato maalumu wa kutoa elimu ya katiba kwa wananchi. Honestly speaking watz wengi hawajui katiba nini na inaumhimu gani katika maisha yao. Hawaelewi uhusiano uliopo kati ya ubovu wa katiba na matatizo waliyonayo ambayo hadi leo miaka 50 ya uhuru tunaambiwa tz ni taifa changa. Hawaoni uhusiano uliopo kati ya katiba ya sasa na ukosefu wa huduma za jamii, ubadhilifu wa mali za umma, uvunjwaji wa makusudi wa sheria, ugandamizwaji, ongezeko la rushwa bila udhibiti, ugumu wa maisha vizazi hadi vizazi na kutawaliwa ki mabavu hata kama hawataki n.k

    Watz wakielewa mambo ya muhimu na umuhimu wa kuwa na katiba mpya, watatoa support kubwa sana katika kudai na kushinikiza watawala kuruhusu utengenezwaji huru wa katiba mpya. Na hata wakati utakapofika wa kutaka watoe mchango wao watakuwa na upeo mzuri wa kuchangia hoja. Lakini kwa sasa, ninachelea kusema kwamba suala la katiba mpya linaonekana ni la watu wasomi wachache wenye mitazamo ya mrengo wa kulia, wapenda makuu ama vyama vya upinzani. Adui ujinga bado anatafuna taifa letu kwa kiwango kikubwa. Lakini maendeleo ni mchakato, tumeanza, tuendeleeni na jitihada na kuunganisha nguvu na ipo siku tutakuwa na taifa huru katika Tz mpya.

    MUNGU IBARIKI TANZANIA
     
  6. mshikachuma

    mshikachuma JF-Expert Member

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    Hakika umenigusa sana Rais wangu dr Slaa. Is very good sound frm u!
    Watanzania wenye uchungu na kuipenda nchi yao tupo na nyinyi daima.
    Mungu akulinde dr wa ukweli kwa faida ya watanzania walioamka kutoka
    kwenye usingizi wa mawazo mgando.
     
  7. B

    Babuyao JF-Expert Member

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    Na mimi napata shida kama wewe. Kama ni lawful basi ni legitimate. Vinginevo kama walitaka kuonesha kasoro iliyojitokeza ya wizi wa kura (kuchezewa kura) wangesema urais wake ni unlawful/illegitimate because it is not based on true facts kwa sababu ya wizi wa kura/uchakachuaji. Yaani urais wake ni sawa na urais unaopatikana kwa njia ya mapinduzi kwa vile haukufuata utaratibu wa kisheria. Unabaki kuwa ni urais lakini si urais halali (lawful/legitimate). Urais wa Jk ni unlawful kwa sababu hao waliopaswa kufuata sheria mpaka kumtangaza rais hawakuifuata sheria hiyo (hawakuwa wakweli) bali waliipindisha na kumpatia Jk urais - wakidai kwamba walifuata sheria ambapo sivyo. Maana kama kulikuwa na uchakachuaji ni alama kwamba sheria haikufuatwa. The fact kwamba chadema hawawezi kupinga matokeo mahakamani hakufanyi uchaguzi ulimpa urais JK kuwa ni lawful kwa vile tu NEC imetangaza hivyo.
     
  8. Nduka

    Nduka JF-Expert Member

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    Mwaka huu watawapeleka wanavyotaka, na ninyi mnawafuata kichwa kichwa.
     
  9. Mzito Kabwela

    Mzito Kabwela JF-Expert Member

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    Nitapenda kuusikia msimamo wa yule mgonjwa wa kipindupindu!
     
  10. MwanaFalsafa1

    MwanaFalsafa1 JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu Babuyao ndiyo maana lazima Mh. Dr. Slaa ahojiwe na kuulizwa ni kivipi kitu kina weza kuwa "Lawful" but at the same time "Illegitimate"? How is this possible?
    Na pia amedai kwamba wame tumia Kiingereza kuonyesha tofauti. Chama na wasomi wao wote wame shindwa kuepress msimamo wa chama kwa kutumia Kiswahili? Sasa Mtanzania asie jua Kingereza (ambao ni majority) si ndiyo utazidi kumchanganya?

    Mimi bado nashangaa kwa nini watu humu ndani hawa hoji hiyo statement ya "Kikwete's Presidency ni Lawful it is Illegitimate." unless wao wenyewe ni ushabiki tu au hawaelewi lugha.
     
  11. C

    ChiefmTz JF-Expert Member

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    Rai yangu kwa CHADEMA na Dr Slaa, ni kuwataka watambue kuwa kwa kitendo chao cha walk out na madai ya kutotambua urais wa JK, ulikuwa ni uhalifu uliokithiri dhidi ya Katiba na sheria za nchi yetu and it was a drawback to efforts against Mobjustice. Watuombe radhi watz kwa yaliyotokea bila ya kujali chochote.
     
  12. G

    Gad ONEYA JF-Expert Member

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    HR alisema: Hatuwezi kumuachia nguruwe...
     
  13. m

    moma2k JF-Expert Member

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    Wewe Mwanafalsafa ni mwanafasafa fake! You don't think logically! Kwa sisi tuliosoma somo la Philosophy for 3yrs(degree) tuko sentensi yako ya kwanza tunagundua kabisa kuwe wewe umekodi jina, lakini hujaingia darasa la falsafa. Philosophy a greek word which means LOVE OF WISDOM.(Philos-Love,Sophia-Wisdom) . From the point of law, the terms Lawful and illegitimate are quit different. An act can be lawful in the eye of the law, but not legitimate(illegitimate). Most of the contractual deals which the Government of TZ enters with second parties are lawful, but illegitimate.eg Richmond. The same applies to the status of the current president, that his presidency is lawful as per constitution, but his means to the presidency is illegitimate(according to Chadema). Pholosophia ancilla Lecis(Lex)-Philosophy is a maiden(assistant,helper)of Law.
     
  14. Susuviri

    Susuviri JF-Expert Member

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    Tokea jana nimesema na ninarudia CDM hawajbadili msimamo wao ni SPIN tu!
    Kwa wale wanaotaka kujua tofuti
    Lawful ina maana inayofuata to the word of the law
    Legitmate looks more to the spirit of the law. nadhani wanasheria wetu wanaweza ku-define vyema. Na kwa kweli ni vigumu kuleza such technical nuances kwa Kiswahili.
    Kama mtu ataendelea kuelewa basi hana dhamira ya kuelewa.
     
  15. Susuviri

    Susuviri JF-Expert Member

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    Moma2k, nashukuru kwa ufafanuzi mzuri. Mi nadhani kuna watu ambao makusudi hawataki kuelewa lkn ufafanuzi wako unazdi kuwanyima nafasi..
     
  16. SMU

    SMU JF-Expert Member

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    Ni kweli maneno hayo mawili yanachanganya kwa kiingereza na hata kwa kiswahili...lakini yana tofauti. Nadhani 'Lawful (-a kisheria)' ni uhalali wa kisheria zaidi...wakati 'legitimacy (-a haki)' ni uhalali unaotakana na misingi ya haki na watu pia watu kuona/kukubali kweli haki imetendeka (perception). Kitu/mchakato unaweza kuwa legitimate hata kama hakuna sheria. Mara nyingi watu wakisema 'fulani anatafuta 'legitimacy'..wanakusudia kusema anatafuta 'uhalali' au 'kukubalika' na watu.

    JK amewekwa madarakani kisheria (NEC yenye mamlaka ya kisheria ilimtangaza mshindi wa uchaguzi na baadae akaapa mbele ya Jaji Mkuu kushika madaraka ya urais). Hivyo urais wake ni lawful. Lakini 'sote' tunajua yaliyojiri kwenye uchaguzi na pengine 'tunahisi' JK hakushinda na hivyo hatukukubaliani matokeo yaliyotangazwa na tume. Kwa mtizamo 'wetu' JK 'lacks legitimacy' ya kuwa rais.

    Kutoka wikipedia:
     
  17. Jay One

    Jay One JF-Expert Member

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    Thanks Dr Slaa. u r our President, best clarification, it is clear, logical, readable & hakuna kitu kimejificha, tunaimani kubwa kwa CDM, aendelea na
    harakati tupate Katiba mpya na NEC huru, na usisahau operation sangara, watu tunaamini uongozi wa CDM ni dhabiti, imara na si wa kuyumbayumba, na wa kutumia akili, Thanks Dr. Slaa
     
  18. Plato

    Plato JF-Expert Member

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    sasa shule ndo inaanza.hongera Dr.
     
  19. Bams

    Bams JF-Expert Member

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    Kujichanganya kupo wapi? Kwani kitu kuwa lawful ina maana ni legitimate? Nini kinafanya kitu kuwa legitimate, ni sheria au kuna kitu kingine zaidi? Nadhani tafsiri sahihi kwa kiswahili ni kuwa 'kisheria Kikwete ni Rais lakini siyo Rais halali'. Kwa nini kisheria Kikwete ni Rais, ni kwa sababu ametangazwa na Tume ya uchaguzi, na sheria inasema tume ya uchaguzi ikishamtangaza mgombea kuwa ni mshindi wa nafasi ya Urais hakuna chombo cha kuhoji, bila ya kujali kuwa ameshinda kwa kura halali au hapana.

    Kikwete siyo Rais halali kwa sababu kura zilizompa ushindi, kuna maeneo imedhihirika kuwa zilitengenezwa na tume na wala siyo kura alizozipata kwa kupigiwa na wapiga kura. Ili uweze kuwa Rais halali unatakiwa uchaguliwe upate kura halali zilizopigwa na wapiga kura halali.
     
  20. Ngolinda

    Ngolinda Senior Member

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    Hapo na mimi nimekupata vyema, ILA bado uko ugumu katika kutofautisha maneno legitimate na lawful kwa tafsiri ya kawaida.
    neno legitimate linaweza kutumika katika maana tofauti-tofauti lakini kwa msingi wa mada yetu linaweza kuwa defined kama: Authorized, sanctioned by, or in accordance with law. Wakati mwingine maneno legitimate, lawful na licit hutumika kama "synonyms" yaani yanabeba maana moja na huweza kutumika interchangeably. Neno Legitimate is similar to legal. For anything to be legal it should conform with the law and hence lawful, and for anything to be legitimate it should have legal rights. HOWEVER, in a very strict sense, anything legitimate is lawful BUT not everything lawful is legitimate or legal.

    Pamoja na ufafanuzi wote huu, bado maneno lawful na legitimate yana ugumu kuyatofautisha kwa uelewa wa kawaida.
    USHAURI:
    CHADEMA bado hawajakwepa mkanganyiko kwa kutumia maneno haya ya Kiingereza. Binafsi naelewa mantiki ya CDM katika hili la matokeo ya uchaguzi, na hakika naunga mkono. Ila tatizo ni namna ya kulieleza katika lugha nyepesi ya Kiswahili ili watanzania wote waelewe. Pengine anayetakiwa kuelewa zaidi hili ni yule Mtanzania wa kawaida pale Kahama, Biharamulo, Nachingwea, Kisangara, Nyumba ya Mungu, Lemkuna n.k. kuliko mimi na wewe hapa JF, pengine mm na ww hata kura hatukupiga.

    CDM go public, visit the villages and tell the people why the presidency of Kikwete is lawful but not legitimate, let people know that the need for a better constitution is necessary, urgent and can no longer wait. They will understand as we do and will shut the bowls of the media that wants to lead your standing stray.
     
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