Membe: Malawi haiwezi kuishtaki Tanzania ICJ, Tanzania haiitambui ICJ

[Concrete]

Mkuu kwani mahakama ya kihalifu ya the hague ndiyo hii hii ICJ?

Mahakama ya kimataifa ya makosa ya jinai na uhalifu wa kivita ni sehemu tu (Section) katika mahakama ya kimaitafa(ICJ).

 

[don-oba]

nchi yoyote inakuwa convicted na ICJ, kutokuwa au kutoitambua ICJ sio kinga...ngoja nipekuwe vifungu hapa nitavimwaga humu. Hawa mawaziri wetu sijui hawaombi ushauri kabla ya kunena.

 

[Eliphaz the Temanite]

Stupid Malawians let just bombard Lilongwe then they will come to their sense.

 

[Mao ze dong]

Ngoja niende mbali kidogo
nafikiri tukijua hivi vitu ni mwanzo mzur
1.kati ya ujerumani na uingereza yupi anaongoza kwa kuchangia bajet ya nch hiz mbili na nani anachangia wapi?
Hapa nikutaka kujua ni nani ana support upande upi coz hawa jamaa wanaweza wakawa wanashinikiza haya mambo ili wapate kitu,nikijua jibu la swali hilo naweza kuendelea zaid

 

[FJM]

Tumawezaje kuwa mjumbe katika kitu tusichokitambua? Naomba nielimishwe hapa.

Nashukuru umeona!

 

[FJM]

Ngoja niende mbali kidogo
nafikiri tukijua hivi vitu ni mwanzo mzur
1.kati ya ujerumani na uingereza yupi anaongoza kwa kuchangia bajet ya nch hiz mbili na nani anachangia wapi?
Hapa nikutaka kujua ni nani ana support upande upi coz hawa jamaa wanaweza wakawa wanashinikiza haya mambo ili wapate kitu,nikijua jibu la swali hilo naweza kuendelea zaid

Waingereza ndio wanaongoza kwa kuchangia bajeti ya Tanzania. Takriban 30% ya misaada inayotolewa kwenye bajeti ya serikali yetu (General budget support) inatoka na UK. Na sasa wapo kwenye oil & gas yetu!

 

[Mtanzania]

Tumawezaje kuwa mjumbe katika kitu tusichokitambua? Naomba nielimishwe hapa.

Salama Mkuu?
Nchi zote 193 wanachama wa UN ni automatically members wa ICJ. Kwahiyo hapo Tanzania ni member wa hiyo ICJ,

Suala la pili ni jurisdiction ya ICJ. Ili maamuzi ya ICJ yafanye kazi kwenye nchi husika kuna mambo nafikiri manne ambayo atleast moja likitimia basi jurisdiction inakuwepo.

Moja, nchi husika katika sheria zake za ndani zitambue na kukubaliana na maamuzi ya ICJ. Hapa Malawi wamekubaliana na hilo wakati Tanzania hatujakubali.

Pili, wahusika kwenye ugomvi wote waende ICJ na kusema watatambua na kuheshimu maamuzi ya ICJ kwenye case husika. Kwa hapa TZ ambayo haitambui maamuzi ya ICJ kwenye sheria zetu lazima tukubali mbele ya ICJ kwamba tutakubaliana na uamuzi wao. Au sisi ndio tupeleke case huko maana kama unashitaki ina maana utakubaliana na maamuzi ya chombo hicho.

Tatu, kwenye mkataba unaohusika kuwe na section inayosema wazi wahusika watakubaliana na maamuzi ya ICJ. Hapa kumbuka case ya Richmond na Tanesco kwenye mahakama ya ICC.

 

[Azipa]

nchi yoyote inakuwa convicted na ICJ, kutokuwa au kutoitambua ICJ sio kinga...ngoja nipekuwe vifungu hapa nitavimwaga humu. Hawa mawaziri wetu sijui hawaombi ushauri kabla ya kunena.

"But Chancellor College international law expert, Dr. Mwiza Nkhata,* said in an interview soon after the talks that the world court would not* automatically decide on the matter because Tanzania did not give* compulsory jurisdiction to the court on interpretation of treaties and* questions on international law."

Mbona kauli ya Membe ipo sawa na ya huyo Mmalawi

 

[Mao ze dong]

Waingereza ndio wanaongoza kwa kuchangia bajeti ya Tanzania. Takriban 30% ya misaada inayotolewa kwenye bajeti ya serikali yetu (General budget support) inatoka na UK. Na sasa wapo kwenye oil & gas yetu!

kama muingereza ndo supporter wa tanzania sina shaka mjerumani atakua anamsapoti malawi,na kama siyo mjeruman basi muingereza anaweza akawa anaplay cotradictory role ile ya devide and rule kama wailivyoitumia Kule Libya,wanagombanisha then wanakuja kama mediators huku wakichota hayo mafuta/gas,sina shaka kuna maslah yameonekana kwenye ziwa hilo so malaw wala tanz hawakotayari kuliachia ziwa hilo,hapa tuwe makin na hii kampuni ya mwingereza iliyokua ikifanya uchunguz,theres something behind in the next door

 

[MAMMAMIA]

Tumawezaje kuwa mjumbe katika kitu tusichokitambua? Naomba nielimishwe hapa.

Nchi inaweza kuwa mwanachama wa shirika lolote la kimataifa kama mwangaliaji tu lakini sio mshiriki wala kuwa na kura ya kutoa maamuzi. Mfano mzuri ni taifa la Vatican na Palestina ambazo zimo kwenye baadhi ya mashirika kama wahudhuriaji tu.

Hata hivyo, hili tusilichukulie kijuu juu. Nadhani sheria za kimataifa kwa upana wake ni kama sheria za nchi. Mwananchi hawezi kusema siwezi kushitakiwa kwa sababu sitambui mahakama ya nchi. Hivyo Tanzania au viongozi wake wasijipe moyo kuwa wanaweza kufanya makosa (sikusudii katika mgogoro wake huu na Malawi) baadaye wakakwepa mkono wa sheria kwa sababu tu hawaitambui mahakama. Mtu anaweza kumkataa jaji, lakini sio sheria wala hukumu kosa likigundulika.

 

[Manyi]

tunavyong'ang'ania huo mpaka na hayo mafuta kama tuna nia nayo nzuri?

Wewe kweli ndevu!

 

[R.B]

Tanzania on Saturday denied that they have deployed military vessels on the Lake Malawi (known in Tanzania as Lake Nyasa) and also dismissed its security organs were harassing Malawian fishermen.

Malawi President Joyce Banda announced this week that her government would take Tanzania to the International Court of Justice (ICJ) over the border dispute in the Africa's third largest lake which is said to have oil deposits. Malawi awarded oil exploration licenses to UK-based Surestream Petroleum to search for oil in the lake.
Lilongwe has also accused Dar Es Saalam of provocation by releasing new map that shows the border line passing in the middle of the disputed lake.

Malawi Foreign Affairs Minister, Chiume (left) Tanzania Foreign Affiars Minister Membe (right) : Deadlock on lake border


But Tanzania's foreign affairs minister, Bernard Membe, speaking at news conference on Saturday denied that Tanzania had stationed military vessels on Lake Nyasa, explaining that the country was carrying out "normal" patrols on the water body.
"It's true that several fishermen, including two Malawians, were found fishing illegally on the Tanzanians side of the lake. This, however, does not mean that we have been actively targeting Malawians," Membe said as quoted by The Citizen newspaper of Tanzania.
"We have only been carrying out routine patrols on the Tanzanian side of the lake," Membe said adding that Tanzania would continue to pursue diplomatic means, including seeking mediation, to end the dispute.
He however challenged Malawi President on her decision to take Tanzania to the International Court of Justice (ICJ), saying Tanzania, despite being a member of the court, was not a signatory to the compulsory jurisdiction declaration.
On the new map that shows the border line passing in the middle of the disputed lake,, Membe said the map was needed for administrative purposes and reflected the "actual boundary".
The minister said he did not believe the new map was the only reason that prompted Malawi to pull out of the talks because the country could raise the matter during the discussions.
Membe said Tanzania will propose a mediator "even if Malawi does not return to the negotiations."
Tanzania wants an international mediator to be appointed from among former African presidents from the 15-nation trade bloc Southern African Development (SADC). Both Tanzania and Malawi are members of SADC.
Last year Malawi, an impoverished southern African country, in Lake Malawi, as it hopes to join the regional oil and gas bonanza.
In July, Tanzanian authorities asked Surestream Petroleum to postpone any planned drilling on the lake. The company has not yet started to drill.

 

[ITEGAMATWI]

Mahakama ya kimataifa ya makosa ya jinai na uhalifu wa kivita ni sehemu tu (Section) katika mahakama ya kimaitafa(ICJ).

Shukrani kwa ufafanuzi mkuu!!

 

[mharakati]

Angalau Membe amenifurashisha katika majibu yake: Doria ziendelee kama kawaida, maana si jambo geni! Pia hizi ramani zinazoonesha mpaka kuwa katikati ya Ziwa letu Nyasa nazo si ngeni, why kuzigomea sasa kwa Serikali ya Malawi?

wanasemaga watu wafupi wana matatizo, nafikiri na vinchi vidogo vina inherent sovereignty complex haswa vikiwa vimezingirwa na nchi kubwa kila upande...

lazima wawe vocal na wabishi wabishi kwenye issue genuine na za wazi kama hii. How can two states geographically share a large water body btn them and one dont let the other people across the border to even swim, skiing, or even sport fishing? which World is this? what about water tides, will the border shift with tides?

Natural gas findings in a non-natural gas economy only leads to exploitation and nothing else, hawa wamalawi umaskini wao hautaisha na hii gas, wanatakiwa kujua environmental impact na gas yenyewe kua inaflow kutoka pande zote, so sharing is the only solution; if there's going to be a successful commercial natural gas extraction in the lake, Tanzania needs to get the cut to compensate for any possible environmental damages, disruption of other economic activities to our people around the lake and off course the gas that will be flowing from our part to their part. This is a pragmatic 21st c solution to the real problem and not flashing a 19th c document btn some distant defunct powers.

 

[rodrick alexander]

Membe has played his cards brilliantly so far.
Huu ni mgogoro ambao akili pamoja na msuli wa kijeshi vinaendelea kutumika.

In short Joyce anacheza mchezo ambao kwake ni wa kike zaidi.
Membe jana ni alisema sula la mpaka na Malawi itabidi litatuliwe once and for all.
Very good to state the end game.

Katika sehemu tunayoidai tayari kuna doria na ndege za "uchunguzi" za Malawi zilishapigwa marufuku, na Malawi ika backdown.
Doria inayofanywa ni ya vyombo vya Tanzania, iwe fishing patrols au vya kijeshi.

ICJ, Tanzania hatuitambui, kwa hiyo Malawi watazidi kubanwa kwa options za kutatua tatizo hili.
Kimsingi Malawi ni lazima watambue kuwa mwaka 1978, Mwalimu wakati huo alilipuuzia tishio la uvamizi toka Uganda, naona JK kwa sasa fundisho hilo analielewa fika. Vijana wako mipakani na Joyce analitambua hilo.

The maneuvres, both diplomatic and on the ground are commendable.
Keep it up!

Wakati tunapigana na Uganda malawi walijaribu kuingilia ziwa nyasa wakifikiri uwezo wetu umepungua matokeo yake walipigwa na meli yao ikazamishwa ikabidi mambo yaishe kimya kimya huyu mama anacheza mchezo wa kisiasa anataka kuwafuraisha watu wa ulaya na wakati huo huo kupata sapoti ya wananchi wake hasa baada ya kuunga mkono ndoa za jinsia moja

 

[dudus]

Mkuu usiangalie jambo kwa upande mmoja tu, ni Berlin conference hiyo hiyo iliyopelekea Tanganyika kupata eneo kubwa zaidi tena lenye kila kitu cha thamani(eg. Mito, maziwa, Bahari, Mabonde, Milima, Madini, nk)

Kama si mkoloni basi huenda leo hii Tanzania ingekuwa nchi ndogo kieneo kuliko Burundi!!

Mkuu umenena vyema. Sifagilii ukoloni (Berlin Conference - BC) but it is the same Conference that brought into being, in terms of size and territorial boundaries, the current Tanganyika we're all proud of.

Isingekuwa BC labda leo tungekuwa na Bahima Empire ikianzia kule Rwanda, Burundi, Bukoba hadi maeneo ya Chato kule Geita; tungekuwa na Sukuma Empire ikihusisha Sukuma Land na maendeo jirani; tungekuwa na Hehe Chiefdom, n.k. n.k.

 

[buzz]

Membe is right. Amejibu vizuri sana.

 

[masopakyindi]

Mkuu kwani mahakama ya kihalifu ya the hague ndiyo hii hii ICJ?

ICJ- International Court of Justice, NewYork
ICC-International Criminal Court, The Hague

 

[Sabayi]

Membe has played his cards brilliantly so far.
Huu ni mgogoro ambao akili pamoja na msuli wa kijeshi vinaendelea kutumika.

In short Joyce anacheza mchezo ambao kwake ni wa kike zaidi.
Membe jana ni alisema sula la mpaka na Malawi itabidi litatuliwe once and for all.
Very good to state the end game.

Katika sehemu tunayoidai tayari kuna doria na ndege za "uchunguzi" za Malawi zilishapigwa marufuku, na Malawi ika backdown.
Doria inayofanywa ni ya vyombo vya Tanzania, iwe fishing patrols au vya kijeshi.

ICJ, Tanzania hatuitambui, kwa hiyo Malawi watazidi kubanwa kwa options za kutatua tatizo hili.
Kimsingi Malawi ni lazima watambue kuwa mwaka 1978, Mwalimu wakati huo alilipuuzia tishio la uvamizi toka Uganda, naona JK kwa sasa fundisho hilo analielewa fika. Vijana wako mipakani na Joyce analitambua hilo.

The maneuvres, both diplomatic and on the ground are commendable.
Keep it up!

Tangu serikali ya JK iingie madarakani nadhani hili ndo tamko la maana kuliko yote kuwahi kutolewa
big up to Membe hapo umeongea kama kiongozi shupavu ila sijui kwanini umevunga kuwa sio boti ya kijeshi eti ni ya wizara ya mifugo ungewapa live tu kuwa ni boti ya kijeshi kweli na inalinda mipaka yetu kwani kuna mtu wa kutuamlia nini cha kufanya ndani ya mipaka yetu?

 

[Sabayi]

Hakuna unachujua wewe , unakubaliana na huu upuuzi wa membe kuwa tanzania haiitambui ICJ Wakati Othman chande alikuwa anagombea nafasi ya ocampo akapigwa chini, pili Angalia statement para ya mwisho kuwa TZ imejipanga kwa kuwa na wana sheria makini na ati hakuna kesi imewashawishi kupelekwa ICJ kuhusu mgogoro wa maji na nchi moja ikapewa yote, hii inamaanisha kuwa wanaitambua ICJ, sijawahi kukaa nimwamini an hypocrite membe.

Read in between the lines we mzee Tanzania ni mjumbe wa ICJ ila haitambui mamlaka ya hiyo mahakama kwa hivyo ina haki ya kutokubaliana na maamuzi ya hiyo mahakama