Kenya's Escalating Millitary Spending Get Wrath of Protesters in Nairobi

[Abdulhalim]

No, I'm not paranoid it is the general mood in this forum...hence my question, the mdau did not need to taja KE...

No..its your general paranoia in this forum..

 

[RealDeal]

At least Tanzania has shown sense in not wasting her meagre resources in arming up and enrinching the rich producers of weapons. This is a status we need to maintain.

WHAT?? There's no sense there, your leaders are lying to you, that's what they always do in Africa but they exceed quite too badly in your case. Theres no way MEAGRE RESOURCES and TZ will ever rhyme, have you forgotten TZ is the 13th largest in Africa, among the top with mineral resources, among the most fertile and among the large countries where pop. pressure is not an issue. IMO, Tanzanians would survive with or without the Mineral resources altogether. So actually, it's amazing that you think that you need to maintain this status. What you need to do is quit acting like the government is always right and what it says is the final word. You don't need to be skeptical towards the neighboring countries, you need to be skeptical with the government.

 

[eliakeem]

Well, Tanzania is lucky to be surrounded by friendly countries (Kenya, Uganda) or countries that are too poor to wage a war (Mozambique, DR Congo), or countries that are battle weary (Rwanda, Burundi).

Kenya has Somalia as its neighbour, a lawless state with extremists running around. Ethiopia has historically been a friendly country, except in pre-colonial periods when Ethiopian tribes (Sidam, Afaan) periodically crossed Abyssinian borders to blood their spears. But its not a country to be trusted. It has 78 million mostly poor people hungry for resources. So, you can imagine the temptation they would have if Kenya discovered oil in Northern Kenya. It makes sense to arm yourself, if only for deterrence purposes.

By the way, Southern Sudan is another wild card. Most people there have known nothing but war all their lives. Uganda sometimes behaves as if Kenya is their enemy. So, probably the only country Kenya regards completely harmless is Tz. There's a rumour though that half of Tanzanian Army is armed with sticks, not guns, Luhehez.

BTW, I think Tanzanians should be outraged that their government spends so little for defense purposes. Investors tend to develop cold feet on the prospects of investing in places where security is not guaranteed. What if the Somali pirates one day looted Dar's shops? They are becoming more mobile these days. Plus, TZ is one of the countries in the Nile Basin Initiative. The talks have been slowed down these days with both Sudan and Egypt threatening war on anyone who jeopardizes Nile waters. The country (Tanzania) has been threatened by Egypt on its quest to use lake Victoria waters (including those of its tributaries). How can it offer a viable deterrent if it's spending so little in defense?

From strategic point of view, increased defense spending in Kenya makes a lot of sense. Those protesters are just ill informed. Maybe they should reduce the number of children they have so they can pay hospital bills without the governments help.

So if armament is priority to kenya, then well and good, but for Tz is not. we have priorities such as building schools, hospitals, roads etc. but generally investing in human capital (education and health) kicho ndicho kipaumbele chetu.
However, i dont think that the well being of the citizens of kenya is good in such a way the govt spend such amount of money in unnecessary thing.

 

[eliakeem]

Well, Tanzania is lucky to be surrounded by friendly countries (Kenya, Uganda) or countries that are too poor to wage a war (Mozambique, DR Congo), or countries that are battle weary (Rwanda, Burundi).

Kenya has Somalia as its neighbour, a lawless state with extremists running around. Ethiopia has historically been a friendly country, except in pre-colonial periods when Ethiopian tribes (Sidam, Afaan) periodically crossed Abyssinian borders to blood their spears. But its not a country to be trusted. It has 78 million mostly poor people hungry for resources. So, you can imagine the temptation they would have if Kenya discovered oil in Northern Kenya. It makes sense to arm yourself, if only for deterrence purposes.

By the way, Southern Sudan is another wild card. Most people there have known nothing but war all their lives. Uganda sometimes behaves as if Kenya is their enemy. So, probably the only country Kenya regards completely harmless is Tz. There's a rumour though that half of Tanzanian Army is armed with sticks, not guns, Luhehez.

BTW, I think Tanzanians should be outraged that their government spends so little for defense purposes. Investors tend to develop cold feet on the prospects of investing in places where security is not guaranteed. What if the Somali pirates one day looted Dar's shops? They are becoming more mobile these days. Plus, TZ is one of the countries in the Nile Basin Initiative. The talks have been slowed down these days with both Sudan and Egypt threatening war on anyone who jeopardizes Nile waters. The country (Tanzania) has been threatened by Egypt on its quest to use lake Victoria waters (including those of its tributaries). How can it offer a viable deterrent if it's spending so little in defense?

From strategic point of view, increased defense spending in Kenya makes a lot of sense. Those protesters are just ill informed. Maybe they should reduce the number of children they have so they can pay hospital bills without the governments help.

So if armament is priority to kenya, then well and good, but for Tz is not. we have priorities such as building schools, hospitals, roads etc. but generally investing in human capital (education and health) kicho ndicho kipaumbele chetu.
However, i dont think that the well being of the citizens of kenya is good in such a way the govt spend such amount of money in unnecessary thing.

 

[eliakeem]

Unapoimarisha jeshi una nia moja, kulinda mipaka yako kutoka kwa wakorofi wachache au kuvamia nchi nyingine. Manyang'au kama inavyoonekana hapa wana nia labda tuseme ya kuvamia, wale ambao wanafikiri wanaweza kuwapiga. Ili kujua hilo tunawaalika Manyang'au wavamie Tanzania kwa sababu maneno matupu hayavunji mfupa, si wana jeshi zuri na mahiri kuliko Tanzania kutokana na mabwana zao walivyowaambia.

Kuprove wao ni zaidi mpira upo kwao.

Tutawachapa mpaka ndani yao.
Kwanza jeshi lao linajulikana kwa kupigana na mungiki, hawajawahi pigana hata siku moja.
Ukisema hivyo utasikia eti wengi wa wanajeshi wako afghanistan, wakati kule sio vita, ni peace keeping.

 

[smilingpanda]

guy it looks like you all don't get(apart from those who are positive) the world is at peace now,there wont be any war between we poor, filthy contries at least for the next 200 years. So I think we Tanzanians should even dismantle the whole army. $21 million a year is too much.

 

[RealDeal]

So if armament is priority to kenya, then well and good, but for Tz is not. we have priorities such as building schools, hospitals, roads etc. but generally investing in human capital (education and health) kicho ndicho kipaumbele chetu.
However, i dont think that the well being of the citizens of kenya is good in such a way the govt spend such amount of money in unnecessary thing.

Unless you the govt spokesman, else I hope the "we" doesn't include government, cause not much seems to be happening. And the last sentence, I agree but, but it's not really all that unnecessary at such times as these.

 

[Abdulhalim]

guy it looks like you all don't get(apart from those who are positive) the world is at peace now,there wont be any war between we poor, filthy contries at least for the next 200 years. So I think we Tanzanians should even dismantle the whole army. $21 million a year is too much.

Jeshi lenyewe kazi kubwa lililoifanya ktk kipindi cha miaka 20 iliyopita ilikuwa ni kumuondoa Kanali Bacar(si lolote zaidi ya kiongozi wa Majambawazi?) kule Anjouan na kulinda amani Liberia, Lebanon na wapi sijui. Siamini kama wamefanya lolote la maana kwa ajili ya direct interest ya waTz, kiasi cha kujustify kutumia mabilioni ya wavuja jasho. Nashindwa kuelewa kwanini jeshi letu halifanyiwi mageuzi ili kuendeleza raia na askari, badala yake limegueka ni playground ya dili za kifisadi zana na silaha na kambi za malezi ya askari ambao hula na kunywa kwa discount ktk mfuko mdogo wa wavuja jasho. This has to stop.

Ni wakati wa binadamu wote kuacha fikra za enzi za mawe za kupigana na kuelekeza resources zao kwenye mambo ya maana ya kuendeleza humankind. Viwanda vya silaha vilitakiwa vigeuzwe kuwa viwanda vya kutengezea zana za kumuendeleza binadamu.

 

[moyo]

Tanzania's Millitary budget is the Lowest in East Africa.....in fact it cannot even sustain Kenyas Administration Police Unit

Ooh my goodness!!

 

[moyo]

come on now. first of all. first of all besides what the article claims (where is the source) the true amounts are not public knowledge. secondly i doubt the Kenyan airforce i better than all of these.

Egypt
Nigeria
Algeria
Morocco

You are too thick headed to understand this,in fact i doubt if Angola has a better air force than Kenya.All in all it is a fact,Kenya has the best trained air force.

 

[sblandes]

It’s absurd that my neighbours are spending a lot of cash to purchase military hardware instead empowering their poor citizens. Some reason are obvious due hostilities within their countries and their neighbours. Once you start military hardware purchase you won’t quit, you become addicted with the daily new/modern military tech like buying latest cell phones.

 

[Abdulhalim]

You are too thick headed to understand this,in fact i doubt if Angola has a better air force than Kenya.All in all it is a fact,Kenya has the best trained air force.

Yeah, ur corn holes are the biggest in East Africa..no in the entire planet..

 

[Nyaralego]

No..its your general paranoia in this forum..

So Said the paranoid one. A case of the pot calling the kettle black!

 

[Akwaba]

You are too thick headed to understand this,in fact i doubt if Angola has a better air force than Kenya.All in all it is a fact,Kenya has the best trained air force.

Here are some GDP numbers to put everything into perspective. Please also look at each of these countries carefully so we don't have people walking on clouds.
South Africa - $300 Billion
Egypt - $190 Billion
Nigeria - $180 Billion
Algeria - $160 Billion
Morocco - $90 Billion
Angola - $85 Billion
Sudan - $60 Billion
Kenya - $35 Billion
Ethiopia - $35 Billion
Tanzania - $24 Billion

 

[Akwaba]

Oh went on digging a bit deeper on the internet. You see the first couple pages have that $21 million nonsense meant to keep all those NGO's in Tanzania quiet and happy. Then I get to a page by Janes weekly a very well known defense magazine. These guys are a good source.

Bottom line defense budget is $250 million or more.

Here is an excerpt.
Defence and security expenditure as a share of government expenditure and national income has remained low and fairly constant from 1993 to 2007: between 1 and 1.6 per cent of GDP. Accurate figures for 2006/07 and 2007/08 financial years were unclear as the government did not disclose defence and security expenditure. However, in August 2006 the defence minister requested parliament to approve an allocation of TZS287.5 billion (about USD217 million) and the following month President Jakaya Kikwete pledged to double defence and security spending over the 2005/06 figure, the last under his predecessor. According to IMF GDP figures this restored defence expenditure to about 1.6 per cent of GDP, closer to regional averages. The former minister for defence and national service, Professor Juma Kapuya, requested TZS300 billion (USD255 million) for his department in the 2007/08 budget, an estimated 1.5 per cent of GDP. He said that TZS54 billion of this amount was for development and that steps had been taken to ensure that the TPDF had maintenance capacity for all equipment without depending too much on suppliers.The government released TZS21 billion (USD16 million) for the construction of three barracks in January 2007 as part of the new capital funding required for a major programme of barracks construction and reconstruction and for the provision of new logistics vehicles and basic equipment. The construction of houses for officers was well under way in 2007 with more being built during the 2007/08 financial year. Salaries and food ration payments are also being improved.

Defence budget (Tanzania) - Sentinel Security Assessment - Central Africa

 

[Wacha1]

Oh went on digging a bit deeper on the internet. You see the first couple pages have that $21 million nonsense meant to keep all those NGO's in Tanzania quiet and happy. Then I get to a page by Janes weekly a very well known defense magazine. These guys are a good source.

Bottom line defense budget is $250 million or more.

Here is an excerpt.
Defence and security expenditure as a share of government expenditure and national income has remained low and fairly constant from 1993 to 2007: between 1 and 1.6 per cent of GDP. Accurate figures for 2006/07 and 2007/08 financial years were unclear as the government did not disclose defence and security expenditure. However, in August 2006 the defence minister requested parliament to approve an allocation of TZS287.5 billion (about USD217 million) and the following month President Jakaya Kikwete pledged to double defence and security spending over the 2005/06 figure, the last under his predecessor. According to IMF GDP figures this restored defence expenditure to about 1.6 per cent of GDP, closer to regional averages. The former minister for defence and national service, Professor Juma Kapuya, requested TZS300 billion (USD255 million) for his department in the 2007/08 budget, an estimated 1.5 per cent of GDP. He said that TZS54 billion of this amount was for development and that steps had been taken to ensure that the TPDF had maintenance capacity for all equipment without depending too much on suppliers.The government released TZS21 billion (USD16 million) for the construction of three barracks in January 2007 as part of the new capital funding required for a major programme of barracks construction and reconstruction and for the provision of new logistics vehicles and basic equipment. The construction of houses for officers was well under way in 2007 with more being built during the 2007/08 financial year. Salaries and food ration payments are also being improved.

Defence budget (Tanzania) - Sentinel Security Assessment - Central Africa

Mkuu kwa nini unaamua kuua Inzi kwa nyundo?

 

[pmwasyoke]

WHAT?? There's no sense there, your leaders are lying to you, that's what they always do in Africa but they exceed quite too badly in your case. Theres no way MEAGRE RESOURCES and TZ will ever rhyme, have you forgotten TZ is the 13th largest in Africa, among the top with mineral resources, among the most fertile and among the large countries where pop. pressure is not an issue. IMO, Tanzanians would survive with or without the Mineral resources altogether. So actually, it's amazing that you think that you need to maintain this status. What you need to do is quit acting like the government is always right and what it says is the final word. You don't need to be skeptical towards the neighboring countries, you need to be skeptical with the government.

Have I touched a raw nerve here!

Are you implying that the Tanzania may actually be spending more than her neighbors in arming up? Are our resources so unlimited that we do not need to have priorities?

 

[The Quonquerer]

Mkuu kwa nini unaamua kuua Inzi kwa nyundo?

Jamani tusiuze siri za nchi...tujifanye vilaza kama kawaida yetu...tuwasifie tu, ila wakitia timu, imekula kwao! Tukiseti vitu vyetu pale kwenye milima ya nanii na nanii, Nairobbery inakuwa majivu! Acheni wapige kelele!

 

[RealDeal]

Have I touched a raw nerve here!

Are you implying that the Tanzania may actually be spending more than her neighbors in arming up? Are our resources so unlimited that we do not need to have priorities?

A nerve?? No comment.
I would like to see you guys take to the streets to ask the govt what happened to the diamond money. That's all. Don't you think there's supposed to be a bit more institutions ls for the citizens? Somebwoy eats the cash you know.

 

[African]

Isn't this a surprise??? Tourists snapping up £20 guided walks around Nairobi's open-sewer streets
The streets of Kibera, Nairobi, are attracting the interest of tour operators - but critics say the residents are on parade like animals.
The Dutch tourists came well prepared for the walking safari: strong shoes and sunscreen, backpacks and bottled water. Ahead lay an afternoon visiting one of Kenya's most recognisable sights – but one that rarely features in tourist brochures.
"It might seem a bit strange to come here," said Eric Schlangen, as the guide led him towards the sea of tin-roofed shacks that constitute Kibera, often described as one of the world's largest slums. "But I wanted to see how people live in this country, not just the animals."
Slum tourism is taking off in Kenya. Several local organisations have started selling guided trips through Kibera, a short drive from the luxury hotels that serve most foreign visitors in Nairobi.
For about £20, tourists are promised a glimpse into the lives of the hundreds of thousands of people crammed into tiny rooms along dirt paths littered with excrement-filled plastic bags known as "flying toilets", as one tour agency explains on its website.
While Kibera has long been an obligatory stop for foreign dignitaries and film crews shooting movies such as The Constant Gardener, its addition to the tourist circuit has stirred debate.
Kibera's sole attraction is its open-sewer poverty – with residents on parade like animals in a zoo.
"You might argue that it is good for business and that might be truly so, but it smells," wrote one critic when one of the first tours began in 2007.
Unpleasant whiff aside, the tours have proved popular and at least two new operators have started up in recent months.
Martin Oduor guided the Dutch group for Kibera Tours, which promises that its profits will stay in the local community. He said that the aim was to humanise residents, not degrade them. "We want to demystify this place, that it is so dangerous and sad," said Oduor as he walked through the slum where he was born and still lives. "People are poor, but they have normal lives."
Dust whipped through the narrow alleys where vendors sold tins of charcoal and barbecued fish. Children shouted "How are you?" and a woman wondered aloud how the white skins were coping with the sun.
A former local councillor said the tourists were welcome, while a stove-seller frowned at a camera and told a different story.
At an orphanage where the children sleep three to a bed, the Dutch party offered a donation; at a women's craft shop, they bought trinkets.
As they moved further into Kibera, across a mangled railway line that had been ripped up during last year's election violence, the path slithered downhill between walls of jagged iron sheets.
Careful steps were required to avoid the black stream littered with telltale plastic bags. Halfway down the slope, Oduor stopped at a community project designed to help end the sewerage problem – a public toilet.
A pot of water was boiling on a gas fire. Oduor asked if anyone knew what type of gas was being used. "Very natural gas," Schlangen answered correctly – biogas made from human waste.

At least Tanzania has shown sense in not wasting her meagre resources in arming up and enrinching the rich producers of weapons. This is a status we need to maintain.