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Ivi...?

Discussion in 'Tech, Gadgets & Science Forum' started by Kinyambiss, Mar 7, 2010.

  1. Kinyambiss

    Kinyambiss JF-Expert Member

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    Naombeni msaada wa mawazo kidogo jamani, najua humu kwenye sayansi kutakuwa tuu na rational thinkers.. I know for a fact that most of the contributers in this forum are Tanzanians and people with interest in the region but to a greater extent the former.. I wanted to find out the general opinion regarding evolution. Do Tanzanians who know about the theory of evolution believe it, discount it or are not sure?
     
  2. Ruge Opinion

    Ruge Opinion JF-Expert Member

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    Ni vigumu ku-generalise kuhusu Watanzania wote. Mawazo yangu ni kwamba given the general level of knowledge/education (or lack of it) ya Watanzania ni watanzania wachache wenye uelewa wa kutosha kuhusu evolution. Evolution kama ilivyohubiriwa na wazungu kwenye karne ya 18 na 19 ni combination of scientific observation and racial bigotry. Ni kwa kutumia imani zao hizo za kibaguzi ambazo walizihalalisha kwa kutumia nadharia za evolution waliweza kuhalalisha ukoloni na mauaji ya kimbali kwa mataifa mbali mbali. Eti wanaeneza ustaarabu. Vile vile itikadi za baaade kama za Hitler wa Ujerumani na Manazi wenzake zilikuwa zinajihalalisha kwa kutumia hizo nadharia za evolution. Mpaka leo bado wapo watu wenye mawazo hayo, mmoja wao ni Prof. James Watson, mgunduzi wa DNA, ambaye alikuwa anahubiri kuwa science itatoa ushahidi kuwa waafrika wana akili finyu kulinganisha na Wazungu. Lakini juzi juzi ameumbuka baada ya DNA profile yake kuonyesha kuwa ana asili ya Kiafrika kwenye kizazi chake. Niongeze tu kuwa kama una imani kali ya dini utakuwa na taabu kuamini evolution kwa sababu ni mambo mawili yanayopingana. Dini inasema kuwa maisha yaliaanza at a certain point in time kwa amri ya mungu. Ni vigumu kueleza kwa umahiri time and space hiyo amri ilipotolewa na Mungu. On the other hand, evolution theory nayo haituelezi time and space hiyo evolution ilipoanzia. Hapo unaelekea kwenye bing bang theory. Kazi ipo.
     
  3. NGULI

    NGULI JF-Expert Member

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    When?
     
  4. MaxShimba

    MaxShimba JF-Expert Member

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    Do you believe that your great great great grand pa was a Monkey?

    Kwahiyo wewe una DNA YA NYANI
     
  5. Kang

    Kang JF-Expert Member

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    Mimi naamini 100% mpaka aje mtu mwenye scientific theory yenye scientific proof zaidi.
    Watanzania wengi ni religious ndo maana nadhani wanashindwa kuamini, in my humble opinion.
     
  6. Nyuki

    Nyuki JF-Expert Member

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    go and read darwin thoery of evolution
     
  7. Kinyambiss

    Kinyambiss JF-Expert Member

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    The funny thing is that DNA does not lie and it confirms that evolution is by and large true. The fossil record is almost unquestionable. I mean science has been able to document relatively accurately the history of this planet and life thereon before the existence of mammals and humans specifically. And yes, we do have monkey DNA, that's the thing 99% equal to that of a chimpanzee (google tht). Sasa nikwamba tunakataa tuu ukweli kwasababu implications zake ni nzito and we prefer to believe that we are special and will die to be resurrected ama? The issue is that as far as 'theories' go this one is pretty sound. So what is the reason behind the mass voluntary ignorance..? If a DNA test told someone that 'mtoto sio wako huyu..' you would believe it because it accuracy yake ni 99.99999% sasa mbona the same bio-chem technology ikiconfirm theory ya evolution.. tunakataa..! Juzi I saw a documentary walikuwa wanaonyesha the evolution of whales into sea mammals. They found fossils of all the stages, over the last 50million years. Sasa nikwamba 50 million years is too long for the human brain to comprehend ama??
     
  8. MaxShimba

    MaxShimba JF-Expert Member

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    There are few things to put into consideration, Kinyambiss:

    Kama wana evolutionist hawataweza kuleta tangible exhibit showing gorilas who were cought between and/or who were in the transitioning during evolution kuwa binadamu.

    Basi walete impeccable exhibit showing the beginning and/or origin of life. How did life began?

    Zaidi ya hapo, let them prove to us how life emerge from non living matter?

    Lamwisho, watueleze how was the first living molecule formed?
     
  9. Kinyambiss

    Kinyambiss JF-Expert Member

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    Max. Gorillas are not (according to the theory) our ancestors but rather cousins kama punda na nafarasi. Chimpanzees have the closest DNA to that of humans, its 99% the same. Sasa if we are special then it must be that 1%.

    About the exhibits you ask for, they are already there.. Showing clear evolutionary steps towards modern man Homo Sapiens Sapiens... Lakini kuna zinazoonyesha diversions and branches that died out (neanderthals etc) this is for multiple species (not humans pekeyao.. whales, reptiles yani almost all species)..

    On the question of the origin of life.. It is a bit much for us to replicate something that might have taken over 1,000,000,000, years.. (bare in mind the entire history of man as we know it is about 6,000 years).. So a number of scenarios are being debated but it is impossible to be sure, either asteroid, ama just chemical interactions over billions of years in the primordial oceans, or something else entirely that we cannot speculate of. But what we DO know is that we are made of the same matter, the same elements as the rest of normal matter, originating from our solar furnace.. So we might be special but we are not made of anything special.

    DNA confirms beyond doubt that evolution is real, as we see it in microbial organisms that elvolve on an observable time scale. Fossil records and mitochondrial DNA studies around the world confirm this. Dinosaurs have been found in Tanzania. Recently they discovered a dinosaur that was half bird

    http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/tag/dinosaurs/page/2/

    Extinct parallel species to humans

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._neanderthalensis


    Here is a list of human evolutionary fossils found over the past 100 years...

    [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_fossils[/ame]

    What does this make us really think???
     
  10. MaxShimba

    MaxShimba JF-Expert Member

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    Kinyambiss:

    As you conceded above that, evolution failed to tell us the origin of life. Hili ni tatizo kubwa sana kwa wana evolutionist.

    In reply to Birds are dinosaurs.

    This has been the pervasive dogma of the last decade, due to apparent homologies of digits in the avian hand with that of theropod dinosaurs. Theropod hands retain only digits I-II-III, so digits of the modern bird hand are often identified as I-II-III. However, studies of the developing hand in bird embryos, from a variety of species, shows that the digits of the avian hand are II-III-IV. This new report cast serious doubt upon the idea that birds evolved from dinosaurs and leads evolutionists to conclude that birds are examples of convergent evolution from some unknown ancestor. A complete report, " Demise of the "Birds are Dinosaurs" Theory" can be found at this site. (Richard Hinchliffe. 1997. EVOLUTION: The Forward March of the Bird-Dinosaurs Halted? Science 278: 596 and A. C. Burke and A. Feduccia. 1997. Developmental Patterns and the Identification of Homologies in the Avian Hand. Science 278: 666.)

    I will discuss about DNA in my next post.

    Tujiulize swali lingine: Eye? Hivi jicho lili evolve kutokea nini?
     
  11. Kinyambiss

    Kinyambiss JF-Expert Member

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    What are you on about an article ya 1997. Mi naongelea findings za 2010. And for that matter you have not responded to my other exhibits on the evolutionary steps of humans, fossil records to be exact. Au wamefoji?lol The creationist theory has little evidence other than theology which by and large fails to even speak of extinct creatures and obviously has no idea about dinosaurs or any other creatures that predated humans and were long gone when we came. Unless your saying the world is below 5000 years old?lol
     
  12. MaxShimba

    MaxShimba JF-Expert Member

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    If you realy want to go step by step,

    I will suggest to start at the beginning of life. As we all know that evolution still fails to tell us how life began!

    Ndio maana nikauliza, Hivi jicho lili evolve kutokea nini? Evolution, at all time imekuwa inazungumzia maoneo na mabadiliko ya nje!!

    I have ever come accross an evolutionist aniambie, Je, moyo uli evolve kutokea nini na/au kitu gani na/au wapi? Wako bize kuzungumzia mwili wa nje! Inashangaza hata wewe hulioni hilo!!

    Sasa turudi kwenye mada yako, na tujiuluze maswali kadhaa:

    Hivi Jicho kabla ya kuwa jicho, lilikuwa kitu gani na lina umbo gani na jina gani? Nipe transitioning ya evolution ya JICHO.

    Moyo wako, kabla ya kuwa moyo, ulikuwa kitugani na/au una umbo gani na/au unaitwa nini? Niletee transitioning yake.

    Ndio maana nilisema, hivi LIFE ilianza wapi? Kwanini inashindikana kujibu hili swali?

    Mwisho, kama ulisoma post yangu kwa makini, nilisema, nitazungumzia mengine uliyo sema muda si mrefu. Kwanini nilisema hivyo? Ni kwasababau, huwezi kuzungumzia mwili wa binadamu na jinsi ulivyo complex kwa kutumia mistari na/au paragraph moja, mbili au tatu. Hapo tutakuwa tunadanganyana.

    Sasa consider my question, na uone ni jinsi gani evolution inajibu na kama evolution itaweza kujibu:

    Hivi Jicho kabla ya kuwa jicho, lilikuwa kitu gani na lina umbo gani na jina gani?

    Moyo wako, kabla ya kuwa moyo, ulikuwa kitugani na una umbo gani na unaitwa nini?

    Ndio maana nilisema, hivi LIFE ilianza wapi?

    Kuna maswali mengi sana ambayo kama nikiweka hapa, yatasababisha mtafaruku. Why? Because, maswali hayo, huwa hayajibiki. I am not trying to be affirmative, but, I want us to see the truth kwa kupitia maswali and lets face the facts through questions.

    Please respond to my questions, if you can. Ukishindwa, it is ok, wewe si wa kwanza kushindwa kujibu maswali.
     
  13. MaxShimba

    MaxShimba JF-Expert Member

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    Jirani yangu, usitegemee kujibiwa, kumbuka darwin hakuacha majibu ya maswali yako.

    Tuongee mkuu
     
  14. rmashauri

    rmashauri JF-Expert Member

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    Huchoki na haya mawazo yako potofu? Ijue kweli (YESU KRISTO) nayo itakuweka huru.
     
  15. Kinyambiss

    Kinyambiss JF-Expert Member

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    This is unbelievable..lol So Yesu Kristol ndio kaniumba He certainly never said no such thing. But I dont want this discussion to be religious, so I am not going to give any substantial response, not that there is even anything to respond to.
     
  16. Kinyambiss

    Kinyambiss JF-Expert Member

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    I like your questions Max. They at least allow for a scientific answer and there has been research done on these areas with interesting results. First of all about the eye, it has evolved multiple times in different organisms. There are many articles published and books written. For a general quickie intro check this out (and please respond to the scientific arguments in the article.)

    [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_eye[/ame]


    On to the question of the heart. Have a look at this..

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090902133629.htm

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1134/is_3_109/ai_61524422/

    I await your comments.

    And I am still waiting for an answer about DNA..dont avoid it. On the question of the origin of life (which I think science has a better answer for, as opposed to the alternative theory which is just mythology and leaves out critical proven realities such as the existence of life before human beings. Someone's bronze age imagination taken as literal 21st century fact..lol.) How come creation myths fail to recognize the true age of the planet and the many many forms of life that have existed and been wiped out before ? Fossil records are tangible they are there... Ntakuja with an extensive answer to your very complicated question.

    And mwisho wa yote DNA disproves other theories and especially myths which could have well originated from the ancient egyptians.
     
  17. Eliphaz the Temanite

    Eliphaz the Temanite JF-Expert Member

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    There are hundreds of reasons why I don't believe in Evolution! First of all there is no tangible evidence that proves evolution has happened! Yes! There are fossils in the museums but they are simply skeletons and remains of ancient animals but what do they tell?
    Besides have you ever seen an animal in its changing transition stage say from a salamander to a crocodile? Just skeletons with insignificant evidences.

    The law of Natural selection talks about spontaneous mutation! And there it is where most of your unfounded allegations rely, but a simple question is, is the spontaneous Mutation capable of advancing an organism from one species to another, the answer is clearly NO! What it does, it changes what it is already there through deletion, insertion, or inversion to a harmful or more adaptive organism. Never a DNA Mutation can make a bean plant to a leguminous plant even with the heaviest gamma ray dose or the most mutagenic chemical. Again this cannot produce Evolution!

    Evolutionist states, Life came from non-living, and Matter form void (the most ridiculous claim). Where is the science to make such a vague statement! Ooh! May be here the goddess Gaia could make life arise spontaneously! Mhhh!!!!! Good guess! What about the first stone coming from nothing!

    Look guys nature and life hangs in between a very very thin balance, If you alter just a little concentration of O2, you may end up with a completely annihilation of planet, so does the global temperature etc.... These are not the results of Catastrophe Theory of Evolution; there is a Mighty Hand of the Creator who keeps this delicate balance. I'm NOT an accident in this world neither the result of your weird theories.

    Genesis Chapter 1:26
    26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
     
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