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Election Expenses Bill 2009

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Mzee Mwanakijiji, Mar 1, 2010.

  1. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #1
    Mar 1, 2010
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    I know people have wanted to read it and see what actually is in it. Ni kwa kiasi gani sheria hii:

    a. Itachochea demokrasia au kuidumaza
    b. Itafanya kazi vipi wakati wa wagombea binafsi (je imetungwa ili kufanya wagombea binafsi wasifanikiwe?)
    c. Adhabu zinazopendekezwa kwa mtu, taasisi au chama zinaendana na uzito wa kosa na culpability ya mkosaji?
    d. Je kiasi ambacho mtu mmoja au taasisi moja inaruhusiwa kuchangia kipo na kinatosha?
    e. Je kukataza michango ya kutoka nje ya nchi (kwa Watanzania wengine) hakuwanyimi Watanzania hao nafasi ya kuchangia siasa za nchi yao?

    Bonyeza Hapa
     
  2. Shadow

    Shadow JF-Expert Member

    #2
    Mar 2, 2010
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    Part V of The EET stipulates prohibited conducts such as corrupting or offering gifts, loan, promises, procurement or agreement to induce any person, a voter or any candidate. S.21.3 of Part V of EET is flawed as it gives exception that an act or transaction shall not be deemed to constitute prohibited practice if it is proved to have been designed to advance the interests of the community fund raising, self help, self reliance or social welfare projects within the constituency as longer has they may have been made before the nominations process or elections campaign as the case may be. My take is that this will be a lacuna of the law itself has it may be used to destroy the very purpose of the law.
     
  3. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #3
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    Hii sheria isomeni muone ilivyo mbaya!!
     
  4. Kiby

    Kiby JF-Expert Member

    #4
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    Wakati tunaitafuta hii sheria tuisome kwa undani, bado vichwa vyetu vimezongwa sana kuhusu utashi au dhamira ya wagombea kutaka kiasi kikubwa cha fedha ama udhamini wa kifedha kutoka nje ya nchi. Swali linaloibuka, ikiwa hiki kiasi kikubwa cha fedha wanachotaka ni kwa ajili ya kununua uongozi? Ama ni kiasi cha pesa kwa ajili ya matumizi ya msingi tu wakati wa kampeni.
     
  5. M

    Magezi JF-Expert Member

    #5
    Mar 7, 2010
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    Kwani Tanganyika law society na vyama vingine vya mawakili wanasemaje kuhusu sheria hii??
     
  6. Kinyambiss

    Kinyambiss JF-Expert Member

    #6
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    Ok, read the Act.. It is very good (by our standards ) in fact. I think there are problems but it is clearly not on a level that people have claimed. I think one of the major problems is that people who have critiqued this Bill know little or nothing about statutory interpretation.

    In my opinion there are several sections that are contentious. They are as follows:

    s.11(4) banning donations to private candidates contrary to the ruling of the CA which held that private candidates should be allowed until otherwise decided. So the failure of the Government to amend this Act in accordance with this is a major problem as it contradicts a ruling by our supreme court.

    s.12(3)(a) and(b) People have complained that s.12(1) prohibits foreign funding, which i think is absolutely correct because how do you know that it is Tanzanian diaspora and not Iranian or CIA operatives that are funding the parties au Tendwa atakuwa na special UN jurisdiction to investigate outside our borders. This provision is essential but at the same time almost paradoxically cancels itself out by allowing the same practice if done 3 or 1 month in advance of the nomination process with respect to Parliament, President and Councillors. But it is a political balance or at least attempted balance, to be rectified by jurisprudence and/or amendment through public pressure.

    s.21(3) This is the one that has been highlighted na BIC kabisaa. Well the reason for leaving that lacuna is because of the floodgates argument, that there would be so many disputes brought before the Courts on this issue and it will be difficult to convict any criminal case because the mens rea would be almost impossible to prove. And since election disputes, especially between candidates are time barred, by the Courts decide and appeals are lodged, 5 years GONE! So this would only serve to cripple our already crippled Judiciary. So again, the lacuna is left because closing it would create an administrative nightmare and would not effectively cull the practice anyway, thus failing any prudent cost-benefit analysis.

    Moving on, S.28(3) is one that struck me as a problem given that Tanzania is one of those 'Politburo-type' states in some sense. Providing security to candidates is noble and essential (as done in some other countries such as the US etc), but barring a candidate from hiring private security (which would not really influence voters..as that seems to be the main theme of the Act) seems like the ideal way to spy and possibly harm or undermine the efforts of a candidate.. opposition to be precise.. Agents wa Usalama wa Taifa wako impartial kweli?? This could in turn undermine democracy rather than defend it. This mandatory Government provided security thing is bad, the Act will need to be amended to make it optional.

    There are several other minor issue that could potentially be problematic and they will obviously need to be looked at. On the whole, however, this Bill and soon to be Act, will revolutionize political practices in a way and ensure Tanzania stays the most democratic state in this region. It will greatly increase out international prestige (especially relative to our bickering neighbours who all want to kill one another).

    It is a major step, towards a freer society, and although there is a long way to go, the aggregate effect is positive. Through this Act, opportunity will be extend to some people with the will and brains to lead to run for different office and challenge the status quo in whatever little way. It is a step. And I will personally advocate for the amendments that are obviously needed now and those that become apparent in once the 'test run' 2010 election has gone through.. But I must say the anti-private candidate provision must be amended immediately because the President will look so stupid for signing a law that directly contradicts a ruling of the CA. But the CA ruling could have been per incuriam (as they appear to have ignored statutory provisions..if they did then they are wrong..its debateable.) In any case the President needs to take care not to look like a fool because whether anyone likes it or not, there are some free thinking people who 'know the law' na wataongea tuu...

    In inference I wish to disagree with the frequent hyperbolic statements that have been said about this Bill, that it is 'the worst law in our statute book' and that it will 'destroy democracy'... mara sijui 'it is the worst law' I have ever seen. This is all the talk of the mob which in particular have little regard for. But as stated above, there are major issues that need to be addressed including the possibility of ignoring the supreme judicial court in Tanzania, the CA. This would be very damaging as precedence and the President and the August House would be seen an monkeys of a lower caliber than the average Homo Sapiens.


    K-2020
     
  7. S

    Serayamajimbo Senior Member

    #7
    Mar 8, 2010
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    Asante kwa uchambuzi wako wa kitaalamu. Ni vizuri wachangiaji wakajua kuwa hii sheria iliyopitishwa iliboreshwa kidogo. Kelele za mwanzo zilitokana na muswada wa kwanza ambao ulikuwa mbaya sana. Ndio sababu za kutoka kwa kauli kali sana awali. Inasikitisha kwamba katika hotuba yake Rais Kikwete hakukiri kwamba muswada ule ulibadilishwa sana kutokana na kelele za walioupinga badala yake amebeza wote kuwa kuna watu walikuwa wanapinga kwa kuwa walikuwa hawaelewi kilichomo ndani ya sheria. Lugha inayokaribiana na ulichokisema hapa. Kwa hiyo ni muhimu wakati majadiliano yanaendelea kuhusu sheria husika mkarejea pia uchambuzi uliofanywa kuhusu muswada a awali ambao unapatikana hapa http://www.chadema.or.tz/nyaraka/Assault_on_Democracy.pdf

    Ni kwa kiasi gani sauti ya wadau imesikilizwa na marekebisho ya msingi kufanyika?

    serayamajimbo
     
  8. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

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    This is true and it is a big problem as it stands right now. But not just that.. forcing all contributions to go to a a political party and all expenses should of the election to have to be incurred by a political party is fundamentally problematic and I will unconstitutional.

    Kwanini mimi kama mgombea (hata nikiwa kwenye chama) nisiweze kuandaa timu yangu ya kampeni na kutafuta funds zangu halali kuendesha kampeni hizo? Itakuwaje huko kwenye chama ambako tutajikuta tunagombania kidogo kilichopo (hasa kwa vyama vidogo)? Je vyama ambavyo ni vya upinzani vina uwezo gani wa kuchangisha fedha hadharani kulinganisha na kama CCM ambayo kwa kila kipimo ndiyo itakuwa mfaidika mkuu?

    Lakini vile vile.. kwanini mimi kama raia ambaye nataka kumuunga mkono mgombea wa chama fulani ambaye si wachama changu lakini namkubali kwanini nilazimishwe kutoa mchango kwa chama kizima kingine badala ya yule mgombea wangu tu? Sheria hii inafanya kile kinachokatazwa na Katiba kulazimisha watu kujiunga na vyama vya siasa kwa taathira yake. Lakini kama wanaoweza kuchangia fedha za uchaguzi si lazima wawe wanavyama wa vyama vya kisiasa kwanini wagombea lazima wawe na vyama?


    This presume that all the CIA, Iranians operatives etc live outside Tanzania? Why doesn't the law ban foreigners in the country from contributing to political parties in TZ? Je, serikali ipokee msaada kutoka UN, USAID n.k kwenye shughuli za kisiasa lakini ikataze michango ya Watanzania walioko Rwanda, Burundi au Kenya simply kuwa wako nje?

    Kama hili ni kweli, leo hii hao Watanzania wanaingia mamilioni ya shilingi na vitu kila siku na kila mwaka na tunajuaje kama wote siyo CIA? Kwanini tukataze kwenye siasa wakati tunakubali kwenye dini? Yaani, tunapotuma fedha kusaidia ndugu zetu tunaonesha uzalendo lakini tunapochangia kwenye siasa za nchi yetu tuitwe ni "operatives" of a foreign nation? I would say its a classic case of supreme absurdity.

    Je ni kesi zipi nyingi zinaingia kwenye mahakama zetu, za uchaguzi au uhalifu? Kama lengo ni kufungua mahakama zetu.. unafikiri ni kwa kuharakisha suala la kesi hizi? Naweza kukubaliana lakini inajaribu kutatua tatizo lisilokuwepo.

    As a matter of fact.. serikali pekee ndiyo inatakiwa kusimamia usalama wa wanasiasa na siyo mashabiki au taasisi huru. Hiki ni kipengele ninachokubaliana nacho kwani tukiacha wagombea waanze kuleta walinzi wao, je hao walinzi wataruhusiwa kubeba silaha? Je wataruhusiwa kubeba silaha mashuleni.. je ikija kutokea kuna tokea ugomvi kati ya mashabiki hawa na wale na walinzi wa pande zote wana silaha who will call the shots?


    I don't think so; I think this law is the greatest threat to our democracy. Haijaangaliwa kwa ukaribu. Nitakupa mfano mwepesi: Sheria imeweka kiwango kwa mtu mmoja kuchangia ni Shilingi laki tano.. lakini haisemi kama mtu huyo mwenye milioni 20 akizigawa kwa watu mbalimbali na kuchangia itakuwa kosa au la!? Sheria inasema kiasi cha juu kinachoweza kutolewa na taasisi ni shilingi milioni moja, lakini haisemi itakuwaje kama taasisi hiyo ina matawi ambayo yanajitegemea, je ni kiwango hicho hicho kwa taasisi nzima au hata kwa kila tawi la taasisi hiyo? Itakuwaje kama taasisi itatenga shilingi milioni 200 na kuzigawanya kwa matawi yake ili kila tawi litoe mchango kwa vyama vya siasa?

    Na je ninapochangia shilingi laki moja kwa Chama cha Siasa Dar, naruhusiwa kuchangia chama hicho hicho huko Mbeya au Tabora?


    to brand some of us who oppose this law as to be "the mob" is injustice to our reasoning and a direct assault to our competence to rationally propose arguments. Siamini kwa vile wewe unaiunga mkono ina maana you belong to a certain superior group (not a mob of course!).
     
  9. Mtazamaji

    Mtazamaji JF-Expert Member

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    Mi ntatoka nje ya hoja ya matumizi ya uchaguzi lakini nitalenga humo humo kuhusu kuboresha sheria na vigezo vya uchaguzi kuhusu wagombea wa ubunge.
    Kwa nn kwenye Hii bill wasiweke pia kipengele cha Sifa ya mtu kuogombea ubunge ni awe amegombea UDIWANI japo kwa vipindi viwili.
    NB: sijasema kushinda nasema kugombea.
     
  10. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #10
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    nafikiri walikuwa wanafikiria kutunga sheria ya kuondoa rushwa kitu ambacho kwa masikitiko makubwa naweza kutangaza kuwa wameshindwa. Sheria hii inafungua mlango mpya kabisa wa matumizi ya rushwa katika chaguzi.
     
  11. M

    Mtanzania JF-Expert Member

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    Wakuu,

    Ndio nimetoka Kyela na nikipata muda nitaandika zaidi.

    Pamoja na sheria hii kuwa na lengo zuri sana lakini inaelekea wananchi bado hawako tayari kukubali kuachana na Takrima.

    Binafsi na kundi langu tulikuwa tunaipigia ndogo ndogo hii sheria kule vijijini lakini ni kama tulikuwa tunapiga ngumi ukuta.

    Kila ukikutana na watu wawili au wanne wanataka posho. Ukiwaambia sheria inakataza wananuna.

    Vyombo vya dola inaelekea vimejipanga kukabiliana na hili ila sijui vitafanikiwa vipi. Tulipokutana na viongozi wa wilaya walitushauri vizuri na nakumbuka DC hata alisema vijana wake wako kazini.

    Tuombee hii sheria ifanikiwe ili huko tuendako kuwe na nafuu kidogo.
     
  12. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #12
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    Mtanzania hii ni sheria mbaya; sijui kama umeipitia na kuiona jinsi itakavyofanya kazi. Kinyume na inavyotarajiwa sheria hii inatishia msingi wenyewe wa demokrasia ambao ni ushawishi wa umma.
     
  13. M

    Mtanzania JF-Expert Member

    #13
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    Mzee Mwanakijiji,

    Mchango wangu ulikuwa hasa unahusu jinsi inavyoweza kufanya kazi kwenye mchakato wa kura za maoni za CCM.

    Ukiangalia sheria yenyewe hata kama sijaisoma yote ni kama pia imelenga sana kwenye kupunguza rushwa kwenye kura za maoni za CCM.

    Itafanikiwa kiasi gani? Hilo sina jibu ila naona kuna watu wengi wameshaanza kuchukua tahadhari za kutosha na pia vyombo vya dola vimeishaanza kujipanga.

    Hatutajua utekelezaji wake mpaka hapo baada ya uchaguzi. Kama watu wawili au watatu wenye majina makubwa watatoshwa shauri ya rushwa, naamini huko mbeleni wengi wataogopa na kuamua kufuata sheria. Lakini kama watatupwa dagaa tu na Sangara kuachiwa hata kama wamefanya foul, hiyo sheria haitasaidia kabisa.

    Kwa upande wangu mikutano yote tuliyofanya hatukutoa hata pipi. Wananchi wengi hawakufurahia lakini ndio hivyo ni muhimu kufuata sheria zilizopo. Kama tuna pesa kidogo basi tutasaidia miradi ya jamii kama shule kwa muundo ule ule kama ambavyo tumekuwa tukifanya miaka yote.
     
  14. Kinyambiss

    Kinyambiss JF-Expert Member

    #14
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    Umma wa watanzania ni wapenda posho tuu, that is the basis of our electoral system, imeshakuwa culture sasa.. Watu hawajali policies wanataka khanga na pilau na bia. Ndio shida ya nchi iliyojaa ujinga. And comperable to the undemocratic traits of the Bill which will inhibit private persons from accessing funds for the purpose of running for public office, and bar people from contributing towards watu wanaowaaminia, inabana watanzania waJINGA wasiweze kuzoea hii tabia yakuhongwa. Na hapa sizungumzii ma kada wa CCM wa wilaya ya Manyoni ama Singida mjini, I am talking about the peasantry ya Tanzania. The aggregate effect of this legislation ought to kill this culture.

    Maana watu wakibanwa na itakuwa ngumu kwa wote, wagombea wabaya na wazuri, lakini mwisho wasiku watajifunza tuu. Watanzania ni watu waajabu sana sana..I think hanging-out with intellectuals sometimes makes us forget the real population ya watanzania iko vipi. The type of people that hawapo Dar es salaam beyond a negligible number. Case: Mama Kilango recently got attacked huko Same Mashariki na watu kisa amekataa kutoa posho! Can you imagine this, hawa watu ni n'gombe, that woman has been at the forefront of Parliamentarians who took their constituents seriously lakini wamemgeuka kisa wanataka elfu 2000 mbili sijui. These type of culture is what must be killed first..then we can deal with the problems of balancing this area of law. Its a process lakini kama kutakuwa na enough pressure kwakweli by 2015 tuwe na private candidates and a good regime yakucontrol these things bila kumpa Tendwa too much power as this Act does.

    Nadhani kunahaja ya wabunge wetu kuwa na elimu zaidi ya ilvyo sasa. There are some very unscrupulous people eti wabunge.. How can we mandate our laws and our interests to be overseen by people with limited insight and a sub-par level of education (natural endowment notwithstanding).. Haiwezekani mtu hana degree akawa mbunge, hiki kitu itabidi kibadilike in the next 10 years, otherwise ni shida.

    Tanzania has to be led by the best minds, not religious affiliations, clan and tribal kinship sijui ujinga ujinga gani, all forms of patronage..sijui mtoto wa Kikwete... non of that crap. If people knew the challenges we face in this Century, sijui itakuaje mi ata sielewi.
     
  15. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #15
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    Kinyambiss... CCM na serikali yake vimekuwa vikidai kuwa kumekuwepo na rushwa kwenye uchaguzi ndio sababu wametunga sheria hii. Muda wote kabla ya wakati huu kumekuwepo na sheria ya rushwa.. na walipotunga sheria ile ya rushwa 2007 walikuwa wanajua tayari tatizo lililoko kwenye chaguzi mbalimbali (sijui walijuaje). Inanifanya niulize maswali yafuatayo:

    a. Kuna ushahidi gani kuwa kuna rushwa inatumika katika chaguzi au fedha mbaya kutumika kwenye uchaguzi? Sijasikia mtu yeyote amekamatwa kwa rushwa hizi sasa wao CCM wamejuaje uwepo wake wakati hakuna takwimu zozote za kisayansi zinazoonesha uwepo wa hili zaidi ya manung'uniko ya majukwaa ya siasa?

    b. Kama walikuwa na lengo kweli la kupigana na rushwa tangu 2005 (kwenye hotuba ya JK) kwanini hawakuifanyia mabadiliko sheria ya rushwa wakati wanaiandika upya 2007 na kuingiza mapendekezo yao wakati ule wamekuja na sheria nyingine sasa?

    c. Hatuwezi kutunga sheria ili iwazuie watu watano tusiowapenda wakati huo huo tuwatengenezee mazingira watu ya kutumia fedha vibaya watu 100 tunaowapenda.

    d. Kwanini sheria hii haiweki kikomo kwa matumizi ya zana nyingine za uchaguzi kama magari, matangazo, muziki n.k ili kuweka uwiano kati ya vyama na kuzuia vyama vingine kuwa na uwezo mkubwa sana wa kifedha kuliko vyama vingine?

    e. Ni mazingira gani yanaweza kusababisha vyama kutumia fedha zaidi kwenye jimbo moja la uchaguzi kuliko kile kilichoruhusiwa na Waziri bila kulazimika kulipia fine?

    d. Kwanini sheria hii haitoe adhabu ya kifungo kwa wale watakaoivunja?
     
  16. Regia Mtema

    Regia Mtema R I P

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    Nimepata nyepesinyepesi leo kwamba Rais ameshatia sahihi yake hivyo ndio unaanza kutekelezwa....Jamaa kashaupitisha.
     
  17. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #17
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    Hakuisaini kwa mbwembwe kama alivyoahidi?
     
  18. Nyambala

    Nyambala JF-Expert Member

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    Mtanzania gimme a break, yaani sheria itungwe kutarget utaratibu wa kura za maoni CCM. In that respect basi hii ni sheria haramu!! Nilichokiona kwenye sheria hii japo sijamaliza kuisoma ni kama vile iliandaliwa na mtu mmoja na kuwa presented. Mapungufu yaliyomo as highlighted by few previously, hayahitaji uwe mwanasheria or a learned brother as they purport to be kuyang'amua.

    It seems the law has just been crafted for the sake of compliance, well I don't know to who.
     
  19. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #19
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    Yaani hii sheria inataka kusimamia kura za maoni, kampeni hadi uchaguzi.. na huko kote inataka gharama zote kusimamiwa na chama husika. Yaani wagombea wa vyama vyote watatakiwa kupanga foleni kupokea mgao wao kutoka kwenye vyama vyao baada ya vyama kuchangiwa na watu na taasisi mbalimbali.

    Halafu, Waziri ndio anaamua kama Jimbo la Kyela ni kiasi gani cha fedha kitatakiwa kitumike na vyama vyote na chama kitakachotumia zaidi kitatakiwa kutoa maelezo au kitalimwa faini!
     
  20. Regia Mtema

    Regia Mtema R I P

    #20
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    Sijafahamu kama alisaini kwa mbwembwe ama la.Nafuatilia kujua alisaini kwa staili gani.
     
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