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Bunge kuingilia uhuru wa Mahakama

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Sheria (The Law Forum)' started by Nikupateje, Jun 21, 2011.

  1. N

    Nikupateje JF-Expert Member

    #1
    Jun 21, 2011
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    Kinachoendelea bungeni sasa hivi tumekiona. Kwamba Tundu Lissu na wenzake wanamshtaki Spika Anne Makinda kwa kukiuka kanuni.

    Ukiitizama hii kwa umakini kinachoelekea ni kwamba inawezekana Spika ama amelidanganya bunge.

    Lakini hoja ya Spika ilikuwa kwamba akina Tindu Lissu tayari walikuwa na kesi mahakamani. Hivyo yeye kama Spika angeruhusu hoja ile, ingekuwa ni kulifanya bunge liingilie uhuru wa mahakama.

    Wakati Tundu Lissu hoja yake ni kwamba hakushitakiwa kwa yale mauaji bali alishtakiwa kwa kungia kwenye eneo lile.

    Wote tumesikia hoja hizi mbili. Ya Spika na Tundu Lissu. Na zote mbili si hoja za kupuuza. Cha msingi ni ipi hoja yenye ukweli itakayosambaratisha ya mwingine. Hivyo tusubiri mwisho wake.

    Ninakubali kwamba bunge, mahakama au dola ni mihimili mitatu isiyotakikwa kungiliana. Sina haja ya kutaja mifano mingi lakini tumeona heshima ya mahakama kwa bunge kwa suala la independe candidate a.k.a Kesi ya Mtikila.

    Ninahitaji kusadiwa uelewa kwa ninachokiona ni tatizo. tatizo kwangu ni kwamba ni aina gani ya mawasiliano rasmi yanayotumika kwa vyombo hivi vitatu kwa masuala haya kuhakikisha hayaingiliani.

    Nakumbuka Spika huyuhuyu aliwahi kushauri kwamba habari za magazetini zichukuliwe kama barua. Kwa mtizamo huu ninashawishika kuamini kwamba kama kesi ya akina Lissu iliendeshwa kule Tarime basi taarifa ya magazeti si taarifa rasmi kwa spika na bunge. Mwalimu wetu Anna Makinda kishatufundisha kwamba tunaweza kuichukulia kama barua.

    Hivyo mama yetu Anne Makinda (kiumri kwangu ni mama), alipomkatiza Tundu Lissu kuongea suala lile ninaamini kuna mawasiliano rasmi aliyoyapata kwamba lile ni suala la mahakama, halihitajiwi bungeni.

    Na kama kweli yapo mawasiliano rasmi toka mahakamani kwenda bungeni katika kippindi hiki cha technology, basi tutegemee Tundu Lissu asifike mbali, kwani atakachofanya Anne Makinda ni kutoa ushahidi wa taarifa ya Mahakama ikimtaarifu yeye kwamba "hawa wabunge wako wana kesi hii na huku Tarime".

    Ndicho ninachokitegemea kwa uelewa wangu. Sijui ni uelewa mzuri, mbaya au mdogo, waheshimiwa JF thinkers mtaamua.

    Kama si hivyo, yaani kama hakuna mawasiliano rasmi, basi hakuna tofauti na bunge kuwa kama wana-Kariakoo na kule ninakoishi mimi. Kwani kama Spika alitegemea taarifa za media basi hiyo media tunaiona au tunaisoma wote kule kwangu (ninakoishi), Kariakoo (Dar), Mwigobelo (Musoma), Mwaloni (Mwanza), Kibororoni (Moshi), Bristol (London).

    Maana pamoja na kwamba ni kweli huko hakuna mpangilio wa kusema kama bungeni, lakini jinsi wanavyonunua magazeti ndivyo kila mmoja duniani anavyonunua na kuyasoma. Kwa hili hatutofautiani. Na kama ni hivyo, basi ni hatari sana kwa bunge kama bado lina mtindo huu.

    NImesema kama bado lina mtindo huu kwani ninataja mfano mmoja wa miaka ya tisini. Kuna wakati Augustine Mrema aliwahi kutakiwa kuleta ushahidi bungeni. Siku ya kusoma hukumu yake kumfungia kwa muda vikao msomaji alivikebehi kuwa vile vilikuwa ni vipande vya magazeti ya Shaba.

    Hivyo, naomba msaada wenu kujua ni vipi hasa mawasiliano yanavyokwenda kati ya mahakama na bunge.

    Wenu katika kutumaini kueleweshwa.
     
  2. M

    MdogoWenu Senior Member

    #2
    Jun 21, 2011
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    Ukitaka kupima aina ya uelewa wa wachangiaji humu JF, basi uliza isse nzito kama hizi zenye kuhitaji researched feedback.

    Wanakuwa kimya kama vile thread hawaioni! Mimi bora nijisemee kwamba sijui lolote kuhusu hili.
     
  3. Feedback

    Feedback JF-Expert Member

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    Jun 21, 2011
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    huyu hana lolote ametumwa kuja kupima upepo.
     
  4. m

    mzee wa njaa JF-Expert Member

    #4
    Jun 21, 2011
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    Kaka hilo liko kisheria na linahusika na kanuni za bunge...ndio maana wachangiaji wachache sana ila ninachosema ni kwamba Kuna watu wanasheria humu watatusaidia kwa mfano mimi sio mwanasheria ila ningependa issue hii fafanuliwe na mwenye uwezi ili nasi wengine tuweze kufaidika
    @Mdogo wenu wewe ndio wa kwanza kuandika comment mbona unaponda wanaokuja nyuma? Sio lazima kila post uchangie ndugu.
     
  5. Mzalendo80

    Mzalendo80 JF-Expert Member

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    Umeshachukuwa posho?
     
  6. kongomboli

    kongomboli Senior Member

    #6
    Jun 22, 2011
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    Tundu yuko sahihi katikahayo madai coz kiukweli waziri alitakiwa aachwe ili atoe tamko khs mauaji ya nyamongo.Kitendo cha makinda kuzuia majibu kwa sababu eti ni kuingilia uhuru wa mahakama si sahihi.Ingekuwa kesi iliyoko mahakamani ni kuhusu mauaji hapo ingekuwa sahihi kutokuijibu lakini kwa sababu kesi inahusu kuingia na kufanya mkusanyiko usio halali eneo hilo then huko sio kuingilia uhuru wa mahakama.Bunge,mtu au chombo cha habari kinaweza kuingilia uhuru wa mahakama pale tu kinapozungumzia 'kesi hususa' iliyo pending mahakamani ktk njia ambayo ni kana kwamba wanaielekeza mahakama ifanye maamuzi kulingana na maoni yao na kwamba kama mahakama haitofanya hvyo basi hiyo itaashiria kuwa haki haikutendeka.
    Naomba kuwasilisha
     
  7. bullet

    bullet JF-Expert Member

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    Jun 22, 2011
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    Mimi si mwanasheria ila kwa issue ya Tundu Lissu naona kama mh Spika alikuwa na jazba. Hakumuacha Lissu amalize hoja yake labda angejua baadae kwamba haihusiani na kesi iliyo mahakamani. Nafikiri Spika anatakiwa kuwa msikivu si kufanya kazi kwa hisia kwamba maadamu ni Lissu anaongea basi ataongea kuhusu kesi iliyo mahakamani. Alitakiwa kusikiliza hoja mpaka mwisho then amwambie kuwa naona unaongelea kitu kilicho mahakamani au la. Ila kusikia tu limetajwa jina Tarime tu akapanic! Si vizuri. She does not have to cross the bridge be she reaches it! She ought to wait till she there!
     
  8. mbasajohn

    mbasajohn JF-Expert Member

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    Jun 22, 2011
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    thanks coz umekiri unahitaji kueleweshwa. kusema ukweli kutokana na principle ya kikatiba inayokwenda kwa jina mgawanyo wa madaraka (separation of power) mihili hi mitatatu ya serikali yaan mahakama bunge na executive, hazitakiwi kuingiliana na hapo ndipo tunakuja kwenye hoja yetu ya Lisu na Makinda na bunge kuingilia uhuru wa mahakama ( freedom of the judiciary), bunge halitakiwi kujadili hoja yeyote ambayo iko mbele ya mahakama na kabla haijatolewa maamuzi ( the parliament has no power and is not required to discuss any matter which is subjudice before any court of law).
    Tuje kwenye swala la msingi au chanzo cha yote haya yaani whether swala la mauaji ya nyamongo ni subjudice, kusema ukweli swala la mauaji ya nyamongo sio subjudice kutokana na ukweli kuwa kilicho mbele ya mahakama ni uwepo na uchochezi unaosemekana kufanywa na Lisu na wenzake kule nyamongo na sio mauaji ya nyamongo.
    hivyo regardless ya maamuzi ya kamati ya kanuni ambayo Makinda ni Mwenyekiti bado kisheria hilo swala ambalo makinda alizuia kujadiliwa bungeni sio subjudice
     
  9. kongomboli

    kongomboli Senior Member

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    Jun 22, 2011
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    Ndomana msekwa alishawahi kutoa angalizo kuwa ni vema spika akawa mwanasheria kwa sababu chombo hiki kwa sehem kubwa kinahusika na kutunga sheria!
     
  10. Chapakazi

    Chapakazi JF-Expert Member

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    Jun 23, 2011
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    Good questions:
    1. Kwa uelewa wangu, hakuna haja ya kuwa na direct communication between the two organs maana zina act independent of the other
    2. Ni jukumu la mwanasheria kuijulisha mahakama kama matter ipo bungeni, na jukumu la mbunge au watendaji wa bunge kutoa warning kuwa the matter is being dealt with by the court
    Sijawahi kusikia direct communication between parliament and courts katika nchi yeyote. But i stand to be corrected.
     
  11. M

    Mwadilifu Member

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    Jun 30, 2011
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    Mwanasheria mkuu anafanya kazi gani bungeni?ajabu ya dunia hii ilivyobadilika ht naye anaingia kwy malumbano,nafikir yeye kuwekwa bungeni ili kusaidia mambo magumu ya kisheria especially Spika anapokuwa si mwanasheria,cjui hakuambiwa majukumu yake alipopewa kazi,si atumie akili yake tu!
     
  12. Mvua Ya Kiangaz

    Mvua Ya Kiangaz JF-Expert Member

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    He is a merely good for nothing jerk....afadhali hata chenge....

     
  13. Mvua Ya Kiangaz

    Mvua Ya Kiangaz JF-Expert Member

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    Ngoja nifanye research kidogo,then ntarudi kuchangia........


     
  14. Ngambo Ngali

    Ngambo Ngali JF-Expert Member

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    Jun 30, 2011
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    Kifungu cha 114, Kifungu kidogo cha 1 cha Kanuni za adhabu kinabainisha ifuatavyo :

    (1) Any person who–

    (d) while a judicial proceeding is pending, publishes, prints or makes use of any speech or writing, misrepresenting the proceeding, or capable of prejudicing any person in favour of or against any parties to the proceeding, or calculated to lower the authority of any person before whom that proceeding is being had or taken;

    is guilty of an offence and shall be liable on conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding one year.

    Kwanza sio kweli kuwa kila kitu kilichopo mahakamani hakitakiwi kuzungumziwa, kuongelea kitu kilichopo mahakamani napo sio kosa, kosa linakuja pale unapozungumzia hicho kitu ukiwa na lengo la kuprejudice mtu in favour or against the parties to the proceedings. Au kutoa tamko ambalo litadhalilisha mamlaka ya mtu amabaye kesi hiyo iko mbele yake.

    Hivyo lazima kuwe na vitu vitu vitatu:
    1. Judicial proceedings pending
    2. kutoa tamko la kupindisha proceedings au matamshi yatakayofanya muamuzi apendelee upande fulani kutokana na matamshi hayo
    3. Au yawe na nia ya kudhalilisha mamlaka ya mtu ambaye kesi iko mbele yake.

    Kwa mantiki hiyo Spika, kama kawaida yake, alikosea big time, kwani hakukuwa na uhusiano wowote kati ya alichokuwa anaongea mheshimiwa tundu na kesi iliyopo mahakamani.

    Lakini, hata kama vyote vingekuwepo Spika hana mamlaka ya kukataza, anatakiwa akae kimya tu na kama mamlaka husika itaona kuna contempt of court basi wao wataamua kufungua kesi au la, na endapo hiyo itatokea basi itabidi ushahidi utolewe na mwishowe mahakama itaamua ( kutokana na ushahidi wa pande zote mbili) kama kuna kosa au laa.

    Spika hawezi kuwa hakimu kwenye kesi namna hiyo yeye anatakiwa akae kimya na kama kuna aliyekuwa offended basi ataenda kulalamika polisi na hatua zitachukuliwa na polisi.

    Zaidi ya hapo Spika hatakiwi kublow hot and cold at the same time, akumbuke kuwa wakati wa kesi ya kwanza ya mtikila kuhusu mgombea binafsi serikali ilipigwa mweleka Mahakama Kuu na ikakata rufaa, wakati rufaa iko pending mahakama ya rufaa bunge hilihili na Spika huyuhuyu akiwa mbunge walijadili muswada ambao effect yake ilikuwa ni kupreempt uamuzi wa Mahakama kuu. Kama mbunge hakusema kitu na muswaada ukapita na kuwa sheria wakati rufaa bado iko pending. Hii naona ilikuwa nbaya sana kuliko hata alichokuwa anaongea Tundu Lissu.

    Spika usiwe unasahau facts
     
  15. Ngambo Ngali

    Ngambo Ngali JF-Expert Member

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    Katika kesi ya Ndyanabo versus AG kesi ambayo ilikuwa inapinga mtu anayepinga matokeo katika kesi za ubunge kulipa dhamana ya shilingi 500/= kabla kesi yake haijasikilizwa, mahakama ya rufaa ilisema kuwa sheria hiyo inakiuka katiba kwani inazuia mtu kwenda mahakamani kudai haki yake.

    Mara baada ya hukumu hiyo spika wa bunge wa wakati huo, alisema maneno mabaya sana kuhusu hukumu hiyo na actually aliandika paper na ikawa published kwamba kwanza mahakama haikuwa na mamlaka ya kutoa hukumu hiyo etc. Baada ya hapo Bunge hilohilo na spika huyuhuyu akiwemo walipisha tena muswada wa sheria ambao effect yake ilikuwa inapreempt uamuzi wa mahakama na kuongeza security for costs kutoka 500/= mpaka 5,000,000/=. Muswaada huu ulijadiliwa bungeni na kupitishwa na bunge.

    Anaposema huwezi kuzungumzia bungeni kitu kilichopo mahakamani spika anaonekana ni kituko kwelikweli, labda angequalify kwamba wabunge wa upinzani hawaruhusiwi kusema vitu vilivyopo mahakamani hapo tutaelewa, lakini si vinginevyo.
     
  16. Lutala

    Lutala JF-Expert Member

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    Mama huyo kilaza na pia naamini uzao wake utakuwa kilaza plus
     
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