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Zitto Mungu akubariki tuko nawe kwa sala-TEC

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Kimbembe, Oct 10, 2007.

  1. K

    Kimbembe Senior Member

    #1
    Oct 10, 2007
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    Ndiyo nimeibuka kutoka hapa Kurasini kwa Baraza la Maaskofu wa Katoliki Tanzania na maneno ya kichwa cha habari hicho ndiyo maneno nimeambiwa nimweleze Mh. Zitto kupitia njia yeyote ile. Kwa kuwa mimi sina ukaribu naye ila nimegundua kwamba ni mwanachama hai wa JF mimi naufikisha ujumbe huu kwake na kwenu wote .



    Mh.Zitto mimi nimefikisha ujumbe tu na wao wanasema wanafunga na kukuombea maisha mema na Mungu atawaumiza maadui wako .
     
  2. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #2
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    Hawa hawa ambao Waziri Mkuu alipokuwa anafungua Kliniki kule Mwanza aliwaambia kuwa kwa wao kuleta huduma za jamii "wanasaidia kutekeleza Ilani ya CCM" na wakakaa na kupiga makofi..?
     
  3. green29

    green29 JF-Expert Member

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    Mzee mwanakijiji nafikiri wanavyomtia moyo Zitto katika kutetea haki wako sahihi. Sidhani kumpigia makofi waziri mkuu kunafanya support yao kwa Zitto iwe batili.

    Inabidi jamii yote iwaonyeshe mshikamano wale wachache wanaopigania maslahi na haki ya Watanzania. sio vizuri wakijiona kama wametolewa muhanga peke yao!
     
  4. W

    WembeMkali JF-Expert Member

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    Naona ni busara kabisa kumuunga mkono Zitto katika kupigania maslahi ya wananchi.Hata kama hao maaskofu walimpigia makofi waziri mkuu nadhani sasa wamejifunza na kuona ukweli wa mambo.Mambo anayofanya Zitto na Dr Slaa ni ya hatari sana na tayari tumeshaona yule binti jinsi alivyokatika katika mazingira ya kutatanisha na tayari watu wameshamsau! Hivyo ni jambo la busara kabisa kumpa Zitto support kwa hali yoyote ile.

    Wembe.
     
  5. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #5
    Oct 10, 2007
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    green29, walikuwa wapi wakati tunanaambia "tule majani" ilimradi Rais anunuliwe Gulfstream 5? Walikuwa wapi tulipo"liwa" Bilioni 13 kwenye kununua Rada iliyokuwa over qualified na over priced?, walikuwa wapi wakati tumeletewa "majenereta ya umeme" kutuokoa na adha ya usiku wa kiza! Hawa wachungaji ni wale ambao Biblia ilitoa onyo kwa kusema "Ole wao wachungaji wanaokula kondoo wangu!"

    Ni wao waliolala na watawala wetu, wakijifunika mablanketi ya urafiki, huku wakijipepea upepo wa unafiki! Ni wao waliofumbia macho ufisadi miaka yote hii na kukenulia meno uzembe! Leo hii wimbi limebadilika na upepo umeanza kuvuma upande mwingine bila haya wala soni wanaibuka na kola zao shingoni kuunga mkono!!? Viongozi vipofu, wanaongoza vipofu!

    Mafundisho ya Yesu yako wazi kuhusu jukumu la "Mchungaji Mwema" kuwa "huutoa uhai wake kwa ajili ya kondoo zake!". Wachungaji wetu hawa ni wangapi wako tayari kusimama na kutetea kondoo wa Bwana na kuwa tayari kutiwa pingu pamoja nasi? Leo hii wameshindwa kutoa tamko la kumtetea Askofu mwenzao Ncube kule Zimbabwe au kupigia kelele kinachoendelea Darfur!? Mbona leo wako kimya kwa yale yanayoendelea sehemu nyingine duniani alimradi kuonesha mshikamano na wale wanaoteswa na kunyanyaswa? Mchungaji Martin Luther King alisema katika barua yake toka Gerezani Birmingham, Alabama kuwa "Uonevu mahali popote, ni uonevu mahali pote".

    Mwalimu Nyerere alielewa dhana hii na akaipanua kwa kusema kuwa "Tanzania haitakuwa huru mpaka Afrika yote iwe Huru". Leo sisi katika giza letu lenye kutuangazia giza tumejifanya sisi kisiwa cha amani na kufumbia macho uonevu unaoendelea katika nchi za majirani zetu na tumekuwa tukisubiri "kuombwa" kuonesha msimamo wetu!

    Wachungaji hawa ndio waliotuambia kuwa "Kikwete ni Chaguo la Mungu".. na kesho yake Zitto akiboronga na kuharibu tutaambiwa kuna mwingine ni chaguo la Mungu! Tumekuwa kama "kizazi cha nyoka, wana wa nyoka" tumeamua kuishi kwa hadaa na kufurahishana bila kuonesha msimamo dhahiri!

    Kama wanaujasiri wamkemee Mkapa na kukemea viongozi kwa majina yao au vyeo vyao! Nazungumza siyo kama mtu niliye nje, niliwahi kufanya kazi pale TEC na kina Peter Maduhu, wakati Katibu Mkuyu alikuwa Fr. Method Kilaini na nilishiriki katika Kamati ya Haki na Amani na nilikuwepo tulipotoa lile tamko la kijasiri zaidi la "Dhamira Safi - Dira ya Maisha Yetu" (lilikuwa Barua ya Kichungaji).

    Bado sijaguswa.... najua wanaweza kufanya zaidi lakini sasa hivi wanashiriki katika mazingaombwe!
     
  6. Kasheshe

    Kasheshe JF-Expert Member

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    Nadhani Ujumbe huo UPUUZWE, wakitaka siasa wafungue chama! Unataka tuamini hayo ni mamaneno ya wakatoliki!!! Jamani jamani,,, Mashekhe na Maaskofu, Wainjilisti,,, endeleeni kuwapa kondoo chakula cha bwana kabla hata hawajapata... mnaenda kuwapa kuku mchele... jamani jamani tulieni huko kwenye imani!!!!

    Si ndiyo ninyi mlituambia JK ni mteule wa Mungu, Je na ZK naye Mteule wa Mungu...

    Alafu, naomba kuuliza,,, hivyo ukiwa uanatoa mabomu unakuwa kiongozi Mzuri,,eeehhh... Hivyo Mrema Kiongozi Mzuri, Marehemu Kiongozi Mzuri... Jamani Jamani.,...
     
  7. M

    MC JF-Expert Member

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    no, no, no, maelezo yao hayo hayatoshi, inatakiwa waongee publically kwamba uonezi unaofanywa na viongozi wa serkari dhidi ya watanzania walala hoi hautavumiliwa tena na wamkemee Rais achukia hatua kali zinazostaili.
    Viongozi wa Dini ni watu muhimu sana katika jamii, na pia wana wajibu na sauti ya kuwatetea waumini wao, wasichukulie tu kwa sababu zito kasema wanaunga Mkono, bali Wasimame wakemee uovu na wizi wa raslimali za watanzania kwa kuwa wanafaham mambo yanayoendelea kufaywa na viongozi wetu amboa Rais anabaki kutabasamu tu huku wao wanakula nchi.
     
  8. M

    Mtu JF-Expert Member

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    Mkjj,
    Maandishi haya yamenigusa sana mkuu.Naomba kama kuna mtu anawafahamu "watakatifu" wale basi wapelekewe maandishi haya kama hawataingia JF.

    Karl Marx alisema dini ni aina ya ulevi wa kupumbaza masikini ili waweze kutawaliwa.Nakubaliana na Marx kwa asilimia nyingi.Hawa "wenye heri" wanaokaa kwenye mahekalu makubwa walikuwa wapi siku zote? Kila siku yanatendeka mabaya na wao wanaendesha sala mahekaluni ya kuwaombea maisha marefu wezi hawa waendelee kuiba tu.

    Mkjj nashukuru kwa kipande hicho.
     
  9. Nyangumi

    Nyangumi JF-Expert Member

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    Imani za wakristu zimekuwa zinafifia siku hadi siku kwa kuwa wakristu hawa wanalazimika kutumia muda wao mwingi kufikiria namna gani ya kupata mlo na hatimaye hulazimika kutumia njia zinazomkosea Mwenyezi Mungu. Nini wajibu wa kanisa katika hili? Kuicha serikali inayomilikiwa na shetani kuendelea kuwapoteza wakristo ''Eti kwa kuogopa kuwambiwa wanaingilia SIASA''Mimi sikubaliani kuwa kila kitu ni siasa.Wizi,kuua,uzinzi,uongo na tamaa ni mambo yanayozungumzwa ndani ya biblia ya yanakemewa kwa kiasi kikubwa.Sasa nikwanini hawa viongozi wasiwe mstari wa mbele kuyakemea haya bila kujali nafasi ya mtu??Au hii itaitwa siasa?? The church must show the courage of John the baptist ''Math 14:4''Hii nchi ni yetu sote tulipewa na Muumba, hivyo tuna haki ya kuifaidi sote. Viongozi wa dini acheni uoga na unafiki.Mbwa mwitu anamaliza kondoo mlioahidi kuwachunga.Acheni ngonjera zenu nyingi za kutueleza namna ya kutoa sadaka zaidi, wakati nyingi ya pesa hizi zinapatikana kwa njia isiyompendeza Mungu.
     
  10. Kasheshe

    Kasheshe JF-Expert Member

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    Mawazo yako mazuri lakini hayana tofauti na mashekh wa siasa kali au walokole ambao muda mwingi wanahubiri dini au dhehebu la wengine baya, bila kuchukua muda huo kuwapa imani watu wao!!!
     
  11. Nyangumi

    Nyangumi JF-Expert Member

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    Hata Yesu aliwapa mikate na samaki watu waliokuja kumsikiliza kabla ya kuwapa maneno ya imani kwa kuwa alijua wananjaa ya kimwili.Ndivyo hivyo wanapaswa kufanya hao viongozi wa dini wa sasa wanatakiwa kusaidia kuweka mazingira mazuri kwa ajili ya kondoo wao kushiba.
     
  12. Shalom

    Shalom JF-Expert Member

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    Lini umesikia sisi walokole tunahubiri dini ya mtu mwingine kuwa mbaya? usitafute laana wewe naomba utubu kabla ya masaa mawili kuisha tangia uisome hii post lasivyo yesu baba wa walokole aingilie kati
     
  13. kinepi_nepi

    kinepi_nepi JF-Expert Member

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    Viongozi wa Dini wanawajibu mkubwa wa kukemea maovu na wafisadi wakubwa na wadogo.

    Kinachoniuma mimi ni kitendo cha dini zetu kukumbatia wezi na mafisadi makanisani. Je ndugu wananchi wakati haujafika wa kuwakimbiza wezi wa fedha zetu makanisani na misikitini mpaka wa tubu na kukubali kurudisha fedha zetu?

    Je kunahaja gani kuwapa wezi viti vya mbele makanisani na sehemu za muhimu msikitini wakati wanatutesa?

    Ni wajibu wa Pengo kuwaeleza wenzake kamwe hatuta wafagilia wezi na mafisadi. Yesu alimwambia Zakayo nenda kauze ulivyonavyo uwagawie masikini kisha unifuate. Yesu alisema hayo kwa sababu alijua Zakayo alivipata kwa njia ambayo sio halali.

    Tuanze kupiga mbiu ya kuwakataa hawa wezi wa Mali ya watu wanyonge wasioweza kujitetea, Kama Askofu au sheikh atakaa kimya wakati wanaona, ole wao kwani adhabu ya Mungu ni kubwa kwao.

    Wakati umefika wa kila kada ya watanzania kuamka na kulia kwa sauti kubwa.
     
  14. M

    Mkandara Verified User

    #14
    Oct 11, 2007
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    Wana JF nataka kuuliza kitu kimoja.. Hivi unapokuwa Padre huwa unavuliwa uananchi wa kawaida yaani huruhusiwi kuzungumza kama Mtanzania asokuwa na dini!..
    Je, ni wakati gani hasa watu hawa wanaruhusiwa kujiingiza ama kuchangia mawazo ktk maswala ya Kitaifa.
    Na mwisho, hivi kuwa kwao Mapadre kunaondoa kiasi gani cha kasoro ktk Jugdement zao ktk maswala ya Kitaifa. maanake ikiwa tunaowaona wao kama watukufu walioteuliwa ktk maswala ya dini ina maana wadhifa huu huwa wanaubeba hata kitandani?.
    Nakumbuka kuna msera mmoja aliwahi kuniuliza kama Bush huwa anabembeleza mkewe anapojisikia ama hutoa amri na pengine kutumika kura yake ya vito kupinga mawazo ya mkewe... Lol!
     
  15. Field Marshall ES

    Field Marshall ES JF-Expert Member

    #15
    Oct 11, 2007
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    MMMMMhhhh! Hawa wakuu wa dini sasa wameanza kuwa wasanii, ni muhimu tukawa makini nao hawa katika jaamiii, wanaoenakana hawataki kuachwa nyuma na dunia, na kuna amri ya Mungu wanaikiuka ya kuamua wamtumike nani kati ya Mungu na dunia, maana sasa wanaanza kuwa tatizo kwenye jamii na kauli zao za ujanja ujanja,

    Kina Zitto, na Muungwana wanahitaji kuwa macho sana na hawa, maana hatuwaelewi hawa, Mkuu MMJ, hakuna la kuongezea hoja yako inasimama tena straight, hawa wakuu wa dini waendelee kutombea tu wenye dhambi na taifa letu kwa ujumla, maana na wao tukiwafukua huko makanisani, tuitayakuta ya kumzidi firauni,

    Mimi nilisoma sekondari ya Boarding school kwenye mission ya wakatoliki, nikashuhudia Askofu, akitumia uchawi kuupata uaskofu, since then huwa maaskofu ninawaangalia kwa macho mawili mawili,pia siwezi kumuacha padri amuombeee mke wangu peke yake mpoaka niwepo na mimi tule sahani moja ya Mungu, halafu tafuta mahali popote kwenye chuo chao cha upadiri utakuta kinadada karibu wote wa hayo maeneo wana watoto, lakini baba zao hawajulikani wako wapi, maana ingekuwa enzi zile za vita ya Amin, tungesema walienda vitani Kagera hawakurudi,

    au wako Iraq?
     
  16. Augustine Moshi

    Augustine Moshi JF-Expert Member

    #16
    Oct 11, 2007
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    Wale ambao mwanzoni walidhani JK atakuwa mkombozi na sasa wamegundua vingne, inabidi washutumiwe? Mbona karibu kila mtu humu yuko kwenye mkumbo huo? Nakumbuka vizuri wachangiaji humu walivyoshangilia pale moshi mweupe ulipoonekana Dodoma na JK akatangazwa kuibuka kidedea.

    TEC walikosea mwanzoni walipodhani JK na CCM ingewaletea wananchi uongozi mzuri. Sasa wamegundua, kama mlivyogundua wengi humu, kwamba CCM is a den of vipers, na JK anatoa tu lukuki ya ahadi bila kutekeleza.

    TEC haijasema shina la tatizo ni nini. Huu uchafu uliofunuliwa na Zitto na Slaa ni consequences tu za tatizo, sio msingi wake. Msingi ni CCM kuhodhi na kulewa madaraka. Hilo limewezesha viongozi wezi wa mali ya uma kulindana, ndani na je ya chama. Naiomba TEC ikemee CCM. Hakutakuwepo na utawala wa kisheria Tanzania mpaka kwanza CCM iwekwe benchi.

    Mwisho, nawakumbusha kwamba kwetu sisi Wakatoliki, Maaskofu ni mahalifa wa Mitume. Kuwasema vibaya bila sababu ya kuridhisha ni ofensive kwetu. It is extremely poor logic to say that since TEC welcomed JK's candidacy then they should not support Zitto's efforts now. TEC has not said that it supports Chadema or any political party. They cannot, they should not. They have not said that they do not support CCM either. Hakuna utata wowote kama Maaskofu walimpigia makofi Lowasa.

    TEC is morally obliged to condemn evil and to support those who are fighting for the common good. It is in this spirit that it condemns the massive embezzlement of public funds that is being done by the leaders of CCM. It is also in the same spirit that it supports Zitto.

    I gladly welcome the statement from TEC. I wish that other religious leaders would come out with a similar support for Zitto.
     
  17. Susuviri

    Susuviri JF-Expert Member

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    Mimi nadhani kwamba generally speaking, Wantanzania wengi feel disillusioned and let down by their leaders. (sorry for my Swa-English) Na hii ni pamoja na viongozi wa dini. But I am sure that just like in the political arena also in the religious sphere, wapo viongozi wazuri na wabaya. But what people are truly looking for is for someone to stand up against the unfairness of the system. In the catholic church there are examples elsewhere like Pope JOhn Paul II who stood up to the communists in Poland! But in Tanzania (and unfortunately in other coutnries) there has been a lack of true leadership within the church. But that is true in the Anglican church, other religions and so on. Otherwise, spiritual leaders would have long time ago condemned what is happening in this country. Tusilumbane about each other's religion but let us look at the final goal which is to create a fair and just country.
     
  18. Augustine Moshi

    Augustine Moshi JF-Expert Member

    #18
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    Kabla TEC haijatoa huu ujumbe wake, wengi hapa walilalamika "mbona viongozi wa dini hawazungumzii ishu aliyoileta Zitto na Slaa". Sasa wamezungumzia, na watu wale wale tena wanasema "hawapashwi kutoa tamshi hivi kwani awali walitamka kuridhishwa na uchaguzi wa Kikwete". Tuwaeleweje? Kwani sasa hao Maaskofu wametamka kutoridhishwa na uongozi wa Kikwete? Do not put words into their mouths.

    Maaskofu wa TEC ni viongozi wa Wakatoliki. Si kweli, Ndugu Susuviri, kwamba Wakatoliki hawaridhishwi na uongozi wao. (Umesema kwa kijumla kwamba wananchi hawaridhishwi na viongozi wao wa kidini). Pengo anapendwa sana na Wakatoliki. Maaskofu waliobaki hivyo hivyo. They are our spiritual leaders, and we love them very much, thank you.
     
  19. B

    BroJay4 JF-Expert Member

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    Oct 11, 2007
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    Hawa viongozi wetu wa dini ni njaa tupu,they are just there to achieve their interests,ni mara ngapi wamekua wakishangilia utumbo wa hawa mafisadi,huku wakiwaalika kwenye fundraising,hawa ni ndume la kuwili.Viongozi wa dini kama watu wenye ushawishi mkubwa katika jamii,ilitakiwa wawe mstari wa mbele kukemea maovu,rushwa,ufisadi,unyanyasaji,lakini wapo kimya,the same money which these nyang'aus steal from us,ndio hiyo hiyo inayochangia kwenye makanisa na misikitini,mara ngapi tumesikia EL,Sumaye,Mkapa,JK au hata Manji wakichangia millions of money kwenye makanisa na misikitini,huku wakishangilia na kupewa amina,kweli dhambi itamaliza wengi.

    Kwa nini wasiige mifano ya akina Askofu Tutu,au hata hawa civil rights leaders akina Rev Al Sharpton na Rev Jesse Jackson,hawa tunawaona wakiandaa maandamano kupinga jambo lolote linalokua kinyume na haki za binadamu,so why not us?Umaskini ni kitu kimoja kibaya sana,hii yote ni njaa,wanashindwa kukemea mabaya kwa sababu wanajua watakoswa mkate,tunakataa hii sura mbili za viongozi wetu wa dini,tuachane nao,tupambane wenyewe hadi kieleweke.
     
  20. Mushobozi

    Mushobozi JF-Expert Member

    #20
    Oct 11, 2007
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    ni kweli vita tunayopambana nayo ni moja ingawa kwa njia tofauti na malengo tofauti.

    wapo wale wenye falsafa kuwa serikali inaweza kuwajibishwa kwa sala na maombi-viongozi wa dini. hatuwezi wapinga

    wapo wanaodhani kuwa serikali inaweza kuwajibishwa kwa amani na utulivu na kuvumiliana- akina kilitime na CCM wengine

    na wapo wanaoamini kwenye nguvu za hapa na pale, nguvu ya umma-waliowengi

    na hizi falsafa zote zinasababishwa na shule ulizosomea na malezi yako.

    wote hawa wanaweza kuwa sahii sababu lengo lao ni moja tu. hawa wakatoliki nadhani lengo lao walitaka kiongozi mzuri, maana kiongozi toka kwa mungu anasadikiwa kuwa mzuri.

    Zitto anachotaka sio kuona anayetoa mkono ni JF tu. hapana hata kama anyeunga mkono ni mtu aliyekuwa CCM muda mfupi, tutafurahi kuwa kondoo wamesikia sauti na kilio chake, kama ni viongozi wa dini, tutafurahi kuwa sasa injili ya zitto inahubiriwa kila kona ya Tanzania.

    Tunatamani kila mtu ajue ila na ufisadi unaofanyika hapa tanzania, ila kazi ya ukombozi itakapoanza iwe nyepesi. ona watawa walivyoishikisha adabu Burma. sasa hapa tunataka watu wote, zitto, wafuasi wake CCM wafuasi wake, na dini zote na wafuasi wake wajue kuwa CCM inakwenda.

    TUSIPOANGALIA TUTAANZA DIVIDE AND RULE SYSTEM. asye kinyume chako yuko yuko likely kuwa upande wako
     
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