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what is the probability?

Discussion in 'Habari na Hoja mchanganyiko' started by Binti Maringo, Aug 6, 2009.

  1. Binti Maringo

    Binti Maringo JF-Expert Member

    #1
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    here is the situation...Nimezaliwa nikabatiza then nikafanya mafundisho ya Kipaimara for 2 years na ninapokea sacrament (chakula cha bwana)...then nikaenda mskitini nikaenda kutawazwa na nikaanza kuswali kila ijumaa....Mind you sijabadilisha jina bado jina langu ni Kelly01....so what is the probability here....je mimi ni mkiristo au mimi ni muislam?......maana kanisani nakwenda msikitini nakwenda......


    alafu msianze kusema hii topic ya kidini hapa nauliza swali kama huna hoja anza mbele.....


    I love you though i could be sturbon like that.....

    xoxo
     
  2. Dark City

    Dark City JF-Expert Member

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    Leo unatisha! Nilipoona kichwa tu, nikajua sasa tumerudi kwenye madarasa tuliyoyakimbia kwa sababu namba (maths au hisabati/hesabu) zilikuwa hazipandi. Pia nilidhani kuwa sasa tunaanza kucheza na lugha za watu!

    Sina uzoefu na uislamu lakini kwa uelewa wangu, ukishanusa msikitini na kufanyiwa taratibu za huko basi umeachana na ukristo. Namfahamu dada mmoja ambaye aliolewa na mume muislamu na kufanyiwa mipango ya kubadili dini ingawa haikukamilika. Alipotaka kurudi kanisani baada ya mume wake kufariki ilikuwa kasheshe kweli kweli. Padre alimweka kwenye uangalizi wa Jumuiya kwa karibia mwaka sasa na bado hajapokelewa. Kwa issue yako inawezekana ukawa hauko kokote. Ngoja tusikie wenye uzoefu na uislamu wanasemaje.
     
  3. Zakumi

    Zakumi JF-Expert Member

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    Kelly01:

    Naona unatumia kanisa au msikiti kama metaphors tu. Lakini inaonyesha nia ya swali lako lilikuwa ni kuonyesha kuwa ulishawahi kula uroda na watu wa jinsia yako, na baadaye kula uroda jinsia tofauti.

    Kama nitakuwa nimetoka nje ya mistari samahani lakini wewe ni B. Na unaweza kutoka nje ya makabati.
     
  4. Binti Maringo

    Binti Maringo JF-Expert Member

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    DC...Kanisani hawajajua kama nimekwenda msikitini...so miye bado muhumini ila msikitini walijua miye mkiristo maana nimeanza kwenda msitikitini ukubwani so msikitini wanajua kuwa kanisani siendi kumbe nakwenda kila jumapili na msikitini kila ijumaa.....Nipo on dilema i guess!....hofu yangu ni kwamba nisije nikawa denied kotekote alafu niakenda motoni....
     
  5. MwanaFalsafa1

    MwanaFalsafa1 JF-Expert Member

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    Your religion is your faith. Your faith is what you believe in. Kama una changanya zote then it means you don't have faith in any of the two religions. Probability is that you are neither are Mkristo or a Muislamu.
     
  6. Binti Maringo

    Binti Maringo JF-Expert Member

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    Zakumi sorry umeenda nje ya mada sivyo kama unavyofikiria mambo ya uroda....issue yangu ni kama vile unafanya kazi mbili mbili na kampuni tofauti....na zote upo fulltime...
     
  7. Binti Maringo

    Binti Maringo JF-Expert Member

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    yeah but i still believe kuwa mungu ni mmoja na mpatanishi kama ya mungu na mwanadamu ni mmoja....so why niwe neither?...why i believe in both religions?...
     
  8. M

    Mapinduzi JF-Expert Member

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    Yaelekea wewe ni mcharuko wa nguvu, huna noma wala nini.
     
  9. Bluray

    Bluray JF-Expert Member

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    One could easily ascertain that you have a 50/50 probability of being Muslim or Christian at any given time. But also, one could argue, these matters being spiritual, that you defy a probabilistic categorization.That like the wave-matter duality characteristic of a photon that possesses both particle-like and electromagnetic wavelike spontaneous symmetry, you could innately embody both faiths at the same time in a non-probabilistic manner, that unless an observation or examination is made, you are both Muslim and Christian at the same time.

    And of course the Marxists-Leninist and their cousins us atheists would say the whole "charade" -remember charade?- is an illusion as unworthy of scientific examination (probability being a scientific endeavor) as trying to find the probability of the existence of god, and that this charade is purely based out of your overindulgence in the opium of the masses.I think Im gonna go with that one.
     
  10. Dark City

    Dark City JF-Expert Member

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    Wewe mwenyewe ndiye umejiweka njia panda. Chagua moja au ishi bila hizo dini. Kwani ni lazima kwa na dini?
     
  11. H

    Hofstede JF-Expert Member

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    Probabality that you are either a christain or a muslim can be determined as follows:

    Because you are attending both Church and Mosque then let the following hold

    Probability that Kelly01 is a christian (p(c)) = 0.5

    Probability that Kelly01 is a Muslim (p(m)) = 0.5

    Probality that Kelly01 is both a Christan and a Muslim: (p(c^m) = p(c) x P(m) = 0.25

    Assume these two religions are mutually exclusive then p(c^m) =0

    Conclusion:
    Probability that Kelly01 is a muslim and a christian is Zero, Means Kelly01 is a Pagan
     
  12. Zakumi

    Zakumi JF-Expert Member

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    Kelly01:

    Samahani sana kwa kutoka nje. Ukweli wa mambo masuala ya dini ni Personal. Vilevile hakuna makosa kwa kile unachofanya.

    Uislamu na ukristo ni cults mbili za Judahism. Na kama ikiwezekana inabidi utembelee hekalu vilevile.
     
  13. B

    Babuyao JF-Expert Member

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    Swali lako linaweza kujibiwa kutegemea wewe ni mkristo wa dhehebu gani kwa sababu si madhehebu yote yana namna moja ya kum-treat mtu aliyeasi dini. Labda kama utangulizi tu nisme katika mambo ya imani huwezi kuishi maisha ya POPO: yaani mnyama na ndege kwa wakati mmoja. Lazima uwe na uamuzi unaoeleweka: au wewe ni mkristo au muislamu. Huwezi ukawa sehemu zote 2 kwa wakati mmoja. Utapasuka msamba!

    Kwa madhehebu kama Wakatoliki ubatizo unakupiga chapa ndani ya moyo wako na kukufanya mali ya Mungu. Ubatizo hautoki milele. Pia Kipaimara hakitoki. Nacho kinaweka alama isiyofutika. Kumbe hata ukiasi dini bado sakramenti hizo ziko live ndani mwako japo unakuwa umepoteza neema zake. Lakini hukomi kuwa mkristo.

    Sasa wewe kadiri ya maelezo yako unasema umehamia uislamu na "kutawazwa". Sijui maana yake nini "kutawazwa". Naamini ni kusilimishwa, kuoshwa na maji - to be initiated and incorporated into Islam. Naamini ndo maana yake. Kwa hatua hii wewe unakuwa mwislamu. Kumbe unakuwa umeasi ukristo japo ubatizo na kipaimara kama sakramenti unakuwa bado nazo ndani mwako. Siku ukitubu na kupewa malipizi makubwa hubatizwi upya bali unakarbishwa rasmi kanisani kwa ibada maalumu.

    Kumbe wewe ndugu kwa sasa wewe ni mwislamu hata kama hujabadili jina kwa sababu umeshatawazwa, yaani kufanyiwa ibada. Unaweza ukabaki na jina lako la zamani lakini ukawa mwislamu. Kwanza majina ya kiislamu na ya kikristi mengi yanafanana kwa sababu ni ya mashariki ya kati (semitic names, mf. maria/mariam, ayubu/yobu, yusufu/yosef, daudi/david). Jina si hoja. Kikubwa ni imani: kutawazwa. Ukitaka kurudi lazima upitie njia ya toba na kukaribiswa tena kanisani.

    Kama wewe ulikuwa wa dhdehebu la Anabaptists, ukishaasi na ukataka kurudi upya lazima UBATIZWE mara ya pili. Kila mara unapotenda dhambi kubwa au kuasi imani unapotaka kurudi lazima ubatizwe. Unaona hawa wanatofautiana na wakatoliki. Pia madhehebu mengine yana namna zao za kufanya au kufafanua kitendo cha uasi wa imani.
     
  14. M

    Mapinduzi JF-Expert Member

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    This is not practical.

    Kwanza huo ubatizo unaingizwaje hadi kwamba usitoke milele? Vile vile kwa Kipaimara, ni sababu gani zinakifanya kisitoke milele? Ni alama gani hiyo inayowekwa?
     
  15. MwanaFalsafa1

    MwanaFalsafa1 JF-Expert Member

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    So why not Hindu or Buddhism, Judaism or any other religion? Zote nazo si zina amini kuna Mungu? If you really follow those religions utagundua kuwa kuna a difference in faith. Labda useme uwe one of those people who simply believe in a higher being but don't associate themselves with any religion. Lakini hauwezi kuwa Mkristo na Muislamu at the same time. The same way identical twins may have the same characteristics and traits but can never be the same person.
     
  16. Binti Maringo

    Binti Maringo JF-Expert Member

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    wapendwa nimesoma post zenu wote and now i am so confused..Nipo dilema hata sijui sasa nianze wapi niishie wapi!.....wooow!....i didn't kama itakuwa this complicated....

    Babuyao miye bado sijaasi me i thought kama ukiasi dini yako kwa muda mrefu then siku unarudi ndiyo unarudishwa kundini so why nirudi kundini wakati miye nahudhuria kanisani kama kawaida?......Na msikitini nasali kama kawaida ijumaa lakini sipo kwenye swala tano.....

    Bluray! you made me think hard right now...yaani nimesoma hiyo post yako na umenicha nifikirie nadhani may be niingie kwenye ile dini ya Tom vrouse may be that will be more easy what do you think?.......hahahaa Charade yes i remember that mwanawane.....

    Hofstede........why probablity niwe pagan?...wakati i believe both christianity na islam?....I thought ningekuwa siamini dini zote then i would be called pagan....do n;t you think?.
     
  17. Bluray

    Bluray JF-Expert Member

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    On a serious note -forget the charades about charade- I am with those who say that if you are embracing both religions, then you are neither.

    Kwa wakristo Yesu alisema mimi ndiye njia na uzima, yeyote hawezi kupata uzima wa milele bila kunipitia mimi, hapo kuna implied monopoly ya uzima wa milele.Halafu kuna mstari unaosema bwana huwakataa wavuguvugu, meaning that you have to be either hot or cold, imani ya Kikristo is an all or nothing deal, kwa sababu kwa assertion za kibiblia ukristo unatosha na ukiufuatilia hutahitaji dini nyingine, maana yake ukihitaji dini nyingine wewe si mkristo, kwa sababu hauna imani na ukristo.

    Uislam nao vile vile unasema kwamba kuna mungu mmoja tu Allah Subhana Wa Tala -The sacred and the mighty- na mjumbe wake ni mmoja tu Muhammda (SAW). kwa hiyo hizi dini mbili zina clauses za exclusivity, clause zilizosababisha hata clashes katika crusades.

    Sasa naelewa your tolerant progressive mind want to reconcile the irreconcilable, which is commendable, but hapo utakuwa hupo kwenye ukristo wala uislamu.

    Unaweza kuanzisha dini mpya ukawa prophetess -all you need is to go to Cali and grow long hippy hair- lakini itakuwa si ukristo wala uislam.
     
  18. H

    Hofstede JF-Expert Member

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    You are pagan because you can't be both, but you can be 1/2 Christian and 1/2 Muslim. Kwa sababu condition ya kutokuwa both is a reality then wewe huna dini na mtu asiye na dini ni PAGAN.

    Kwa hiyo wewe si muumini bali ni mugizaji, huna dini kabisa. labda uniambie kuwa mwanzo uliolewa na Christian na sasa umeolewa na muslim or you have both a christian and a muslim husbands. If it is possible to have both then condition ya kwanza ina-hold. kuwa wewe ni nusu kwa nusu
     
  19. Bluray

    Bluray JF-Expert Member

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    A pagan -nowadays a rather politically incorrect and condescendingly holier than thou word- is somebody who does not believe in any of the Judeo-Christian religions. By virtue of believing in more than one of the Judeo-Christian religions, Kelly will be more non pagan than a practising Christian or Muslim, if one was to put them on a spectrum of paganism. This will remain so even if she will be neither Christian nor Muslim, by virtue of the exclusivity clauses in these religions.

    And this is the beauty of her progressive but unfortunately futile attempt at reconciling the irreconcilable.
     
  20. Zakumi

    Zakumi JF-Expert Member

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    BluRay:

    Lakini Jesus aliyasema hayo akiwa Jew na vilevile hakuwaambia Jews ambao walikuwa wanafanya vizuri kwenye dini yao kuwa wamepotea. Kwa mfano, alimwona mwanamke masikini aliyetoa sadaka kwa kutumia kipato chake chote na kumsifu. Hakuna sehemu yoyote inayoonyesha kuwa yule mwanamke alimfuata Jesus.

    Mfano uliotoa hapa unatumiwa hili watu wafuate taasisi fulani ya kidini. Lakini mara nyingi Jesus alikuwa anaongea na hypocrite Jews ambao walikuwa wameacha taratibu za dini yao na kufuata mafundisho ya kipagani. Hivyo interpretation ya kile alichozungumza ni lazima iangalie wakati na audiences alikuwa anazungumza nao.

    Kwenye Koran kuna sehemu nyingi zinazokubalia kuwepo kwa dini zilizopewa kitabu cha kuamini Mungu Mmoja na kukubali wenye kufanya vizuri kwenye dini hizo. Hivyo kama Mkristo, Myahudi au Sabatian anayefanya vizuri anakubaliwa na Koran, kwanini basi awe pagan pale anaposali Msikitini? That doesn't make sense to me.
     
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