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Was Mkapa Wrong on This? Really?

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Bongolander, Dec 10, 2009.

  1. Bongolander

    Bongolander JF-Expert Member

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    Dec 10, 2009
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    Wana JF nimekuwa nikitafakari kuhusu lawama tunazomtupia sana Bw Ben Mkapa kwa kuuza Mashirika na Makampuni yetu kwa wageni au kwa wawekezaji kama tunavyosema, na sasa tunamuona Ben Kama paka mweusi kwa kazi aliyofanya(may be not on this one only), bila kuangalia ni nini kilichomfanya Ben afanye kama alichofanya, na sijui kama mimi na wewe tungekuwa alipokuwa Ben tungefanya nini wakati ule. Ni wazi kabisa kuwa kuna ka-uzembe kalifanyika au kulikuwa na ka-uvivu ka kufikiri ( kama Ben mwenyewe anavyosema) wakati wa process nzima, bila kujiandaa namna ya ku-reap baada ya kazi yenyewe kumalizika. Na namna ya kuwamilikisha watanzania uchumi wao kwenye mazingira ya wawekezaji wageni.
    But wait a minute, was Ben really wrong? Was he really selling our country, or was he just trying to get things going? May be am the last standing skeptic. May be I would have done the same if I was wearing Bens shoes in 1996. I know this may make me sound like an idiot to some, but am not, I think am not.

    Kuna siku nilikuwa naongea na Mheshimiwa mmoja aliniambia kuwa hakuna sababu ya kuwaleta nchini watu kufanya kazi ambazo sisi wenyewe watanzania tunaweza kuzifanya. There was a point where I though his words were making sense, and may be there is an element of truth in that. But being a Tanzanian myself, and after working with my fellow Tanzanians for decades, I concluded that, huo ni mtazamo finyu sana, ni mtazamo wa mtu kujifirkiria mwenyewe na sio kuifikiria Tanzania[Julius au NN angesema ndivyo tulivyo]. Labda ni mtazamo wa njaa njaa, au uswahili Swahili. I can clearly see that there is something terrible that we Tanzanians have and we do not want to admit, a cancer which is now eating us as a nation. There is only one man spoke candidly on this, Juma Kapuya. Sisi si waaminifu, tunaweza kufanya kazi vizuri sana, lakini then ni wezi wakubwa hata kama hatuna sababu ya kimsingi ya kuiba, tuna desturi ya kujiibia wenyewe, na kuwasifu wasio wezi. Kuna wanaotoa excuse ya mishahara midogo, lakini ukweli ni kuwa utaona mfanyakazi wa chini wa kampuni mwenye elimu ya gumbaro ni mwaminifu kweli, tena kwa mshahara mdogo tu, ukiangalia meneja mwenye mshahara mkubwa aliyesoma kuliko mzungu wa Oxford au wa US ni mwizi kweli, then why shouldn’t I give a job which will benefit Tanzania to useful, less educated and very honest man, who can perform a bit less, and more profitable than my brother. Who is better for Tanzania, a thief brother or honesty honky boy from Cape town? Ni nani mwenye manufaa kwa Tanzania, mwizi mwenyeji alieyelimika sana au mgeni mwenye elimu kidogo mwaminifu na mwenye msaada mkubwa kwa Tanzania na watanzania??? if you give an intelligent answer to this question you will be surprised. Ni kweli unaweza kuwa kuna watanzania wachapakazi kweli, tena in some cases kuliko hata wageni, although wengine ni wavivu na wanapenda maisha ya “kibongo” kuishi kiushakji na mission town, lakini baadhi yao hasa wale ambao tumewapa dhamana ya uongozi wa makampuni wana unneeded extra-qualities ambazo hazifai kwa taifa letu………. This was not politically correct for Ben to say.

    Back to Ben stuff. Kuna jamaa mmoja wa PSRC nilikuwa namuuliza kuhusu kama kweli kulikuwa na haja ya kuuza makampuni, alisema wazi kabisa kuwa kila mahali kulikoingia foreign element, kimsingi kulionesha mabadiliko na mafanikio makubwa, japokuwa local elements (siasa za ubinafsi) ziliendelea kukwamisha baadhi ya mambo. Lakini nimekumbuka mengi sana niliyokuwa naongea na Mr Kavishe wa PSRC na kuangalia jinsi tulivyoichezea ATCL, Tazara etc naona kuwa Ben hakukosea sana. (Japokuwa kuna maswali mengi huko TRC).

    Rev Kishoka, aliona kuwa ubinafsishaji ulikuwa na maana, lakini bahati mbaya haukufika hasa kwenye sehemu ambayo ilihitaji zaidi huo uninafsishaji, guess where?
    WanaJF tunapolalamika kuhusu ufisadi tujiangalie na sisi wenyewe kwanza, na tuangalie vitendo vyetu vinaifanyia nini Tanzania. Otherwise na sisi tutakuwa walewale tunaopambana nao.
     
  2. P

    Pascal Mayalla JF-Expert Member

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    Dec 10, 2009
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    Bongolender, the concept ya ubinafsishaji ni nzuri, rules of the game na oparation ndio ilikuwa mbaya.

    Lengo la msingi ilikuwa kubinafshisha ili kupata mitaji ya kuendeleza kilichokuwepo. Kama ulibahatika kuisoma sera ya ubinafsishaji, fungu la kuuzwa zile malizetu lilikuwa liwekwe kwenye mfuko maalum ambao baadaye ungetumika kuwawezesha Watanzania kumiliki sehemu ya njia kuu za kiuchumi.

    Kilichofanyika, tuliprivatize 100%, huyo mzawa aje kumiliki nini?. the right way ilikuwa tuwape 51% ya majority na wazawa waretain angalau 49%, hii ingefanya kila kilicho binafsishwa kiwe pia kinamilikiwa na Watanzania, hali ilivyo sasa, kuna baadhi ya maeneo, Watanzania ni wapangaji tuu in our own land!.

    Tulipowapa hivyo viwanda, tulitegemea wangeleta mitaji na kuvifufua, tumewauzia majengo tuu tena kwa bei chee, no valuation onh land!.Walionunua wamenunua, wamejipatia land bure, hawazalishi tena kilichokuwepo, angalia viwanda vya NECO, BORA NA TANGOLD, barabara ya Nyerere, leo ndio kumjengwa yale maofisi na maduka ya kisasa ya imported furniture, its cheap kuagiza kiatu cha mchina kuliko kutengeneza, hivyo vingi ya viwanda vilivyotolewa sadaka, hakuna tena uzalishaji, bali sasa ni uvunaji tuu wa mapesa kutokana na new investment zilizopo!.

    Hata kwenye success stories za ubinafsishaji kama TBL, the most benefishary ni Kaburu, japo serikali inapata kodi, its peanut, huo uwekezaji kila kitu kinatoka kwao mpaka toilet paper!.

    Steers walipokuja mpaka nyama ya kwenye burger zao ilitoka bondeni!, kisa eti nyama zetu zilikuwa za kiwango cha chini!.

    Hili ni moja ya mazoezi makubwa kabisa ya kujenga matabaka ya wenye nacho na wasio nacho, ndo maana hata Ben akajimegea Kiwira ili aingie kwa wenye nacho.
     
  3. Rev. Kishoka

    Rev. Kishoka JF-Expert Member

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    Bongo,

    Kwa nini tulikimbilia kubinafsisha kwa watu wa nje na si wa ndani?

    Leo hii najiuliza kwa nini Serikali isiuze hisa za TANESCO< TRL, ATCL na utitiri wa mashirika yote yaliyozorota pale DSE na kutufanya sisi Watanzania tuwajibike wenyewe an kuubeba mzigo wetu wenyewe?

    Kama ni kuchapa kazi, Watanzania tunasifika nje ya nchi yetu kwa uhodari wa kuchapa kazi, kujituma na ubunifu. Watu wanapewa medani kwa kukaanga viazi McDonald, lakini jiulilze, ukiwarudisha pale mtaa wa Makuknganya wakaange Muhogo watachacharika kama walivyokuwa Umaboksini?

    So perhaps Mkapa wa rigth to privatise, but he gave our companes to wrong people and undersold everything with nothing of substance in return!
     
  4. N

    Nurujamii JF-Expert Member

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    Ubinafsishaji nimzuri sana kama ukiondoa corruption! Ben aliingiza rushwa kwenye kila jambo hata lililo jema alilokuwa anafanya. Matokeo yake hata yeye mwenyewe anaona noma.

    Nilikuwa nasoma habari ya Liberia kwamba wanafanya majadiliano na makampuni yaliyoingia mikataba ya kifisadi wakati wa vita ili kuifanyia review. Nilishtuka sana kuona baadhi ya mikataba yao ya madini wakati nchi yao ikiwa vitani ni bora kuliko hii ya kwetu ya wakati wa Ben na huu wa Buzwagi (ambao huo tunaambia tayari ulikuwa umeboreshwa).

    Sasa hapo jiulize kama Tanzania wakati wa Mkapa iliingia mikataba ya madini ya kihuni kuliko hata nchi isiyokuwa na Serikali, je kweli Mkapa analo la kujitetea hapo?

    Shame on Mkapa! Atateseka kwa aibu hadi atakapoaga dunia. Hataweza hata siku moja kujitokeza hadharani na kuongea na wananchi wake aliowaongoza kwa miaka kumi. Aibu!
     
  5. Rev. Kishoka

    Rev. Kishoka JF-Expert Member

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    May be if we read this we willthink outside the box

    http://www.vanguardngr.com/2009/12/04/lessons-from-venezuela/
     
  6. M

    Magezi JF-Expert Member

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    Mkapa was not only wrong but he's actually a thief and very corrupt person.
     
  7. Monsignor

    Monsignor JF-Expert Member

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    Japo umejaribu kujitakasa hayo maneno niliyoweka kwenye red nayarudia tena kwa herufi kubwa kuonyesha msisitizo, YOU ARE AN IDIOT. Kwani nasema hivyo nakunukuu hapo chini
    Unataka kusema ATC ilikuwa afadhali wakati wa makaburu japo wametuongezea deni tunalowalipa for not only doing nothing but also stealing from us? What about Net Group Problems? Kaa kimya ufurahie matunda ya ujambazi kuliko kututukana waziwazi.


    Hapa jisemee mwenyewe, angalia vitendo vyako ambavyo vinajidhihirisha kutokana na utetezi wako. Kuleta TX mgodini anayefundishwa kazi na wazalendo aliowakuta pale halafu analipwa mara kumi yao ni jambo la kujisifia. Kisha akipata hela zake je akaunti yake iko NMB? Usituchefue hapa. Eboo! Narudia tena you are an idiot.
     
  8. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #8
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    Kama suluhisho la kusababisha makampuni kuwa na ufanisi ni kuyabinafsisha na kama kuuza vitu vya umma kwa wageni ndio njia bora ya kukabiliana na matatizo ya kiutendaji kwanini hawakubinafsisha Ikulu nayo?
     
  9. Bongolander

    Bongolander JF-Expert Member

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    Mwanakijiji this is a very good point, may be there was a different way of looking at things. Kuna tulioona udhaifu mkubwa Ikulu na waliokuwa Ikulu inawezekana waliona udhaifu kwenye makampuni.
     
  10. Bongolander

    Bongolander JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu naweza kukubaliana na yote uliyosema lakini naweza kupingana na wewe kwa hilo la mimi kujitukana mwenyewe au kukutukana wewe, siwezi kukutukana kwa sababu nikifanya hivyo ni sawa na kujitukana mimi mwenyewe, sifurahii matunda ya ujambazi pia. Lakini thanks umekewa point muhimu sana, Netgroups solutions...(indeed problems), na kuna nyingi tu za aina hiyo.
     
  11. Bongolander

    Bongolander JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu nakubaliana na wewe kwa asilimia 101, kama utaona kwenye post yangu ni kuwa idea haikuwa mbaya kama wewe unavyounga mkono, tatizo ni kuwa tulimuachia Ben aimonopolize process yote mpaka akafikia hata kujiuzia kiwira, balada ya kuvuna kile tulichokuwa tuynataka tuvune, sasa tunaendelea kuwalisha waliochukua makampuni yetu. Steers thing is very hurting, lakini still tunatakiwa kuhakikisha tuna nyama bora, vegitables bora etc..
     
  12. N

    Nyauba JF-Expert Member

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    hivi ni nani wakutufanya tuwe na nyama bora, bidhaa bora, nk..? Je sera za kiserikali zipoo kusaidiaa hilooo kwa maana ya institutional capacity to manage the process...

    je wafanyabiashara wakitanzania wana kiu ya kufanya biashara kitaalamu kwa maana ya kuelewa na kutumia taasisi husika???

    mchango wa business associations katika kuadvocate for better enabling environment na kujenga capacity ya kuwa na viwanda nk ikojeee???
     
  13. Bongolander

    Bongolander JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu you have raise a very good point. Pamoja na kuwa tunailalamikia serikali, lakini tujue kuwa serikali ina uko wake. Chama kinaweza kuwa na sera nzuri, serikali inaweza kutekeleza sera nzuri lakini at the end of the day serikali haiwezi kuchinja nyama na kuifanya iwe safi, au haiwezi kufunga ng'ombe kumnonoesha na kumchinja ili nyama yake ifikie kiwango kinachotakiwa.

    Same, tunaweza kupiga marfuku matufaha toka SOuth Afrique, tunaweza kusema hatutaki vegitables kutoka ng'ambo, lakini kuna local producer anayeweza kusatisfy local market kwa kigezo kinachotakiwa?? i doubt. Hii inakuja moja kwa moja kwetu, hapo hatuwezi kukilaumu chama au serikali yoyote, au hata fisadi yoyote.
     
  14. G

    Geza Ulole JF-Expert Member

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    Safi sana fikra za kijamaa na wizi ndo unatukwamisha ati leo hii Watanzania wanang'ang'ania kuendesha makampuni yao wenyewe wakati walipewa fursa hiyo wakayaua! Huu ni unafiki kwanza tutumikishwe halafu tupate akili ya utawala bora ni nini! Lakini hizi kelele nyingi ni njaa!
     
  15. Bongolander

    Bongolander JF-Expert Member

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    Umegusa mzizi mkuu, tuko pamoja.
     
  16. I

    Ilongo JF-Expert Member

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    Na haya mashirika yaliyobaki mikononi mwa umma ni bora yakabinafsishwa kabisa maana hakuna cha maana kinachoendelea huko. Cha msingi ni kuhakikisha kwamba hayabinafsishwi kifisadi.

    Pili, nadhani haya mambo ya kulipana mshahara mwisho wa mwezi bila kuangalia ufanisi wa mtumishi katika kipindi hicho nao uangaliwe upya. Hapa ndipo namkumbuka Mkapa alipogoma kuongeza mishahara ya watumishi kwa kuwa hapakuwa na tija.

    Mkapa anayo maovu yake, lakini uongozi wake uliliondoa Taifa hili kwenye njia ya kuelekea Somalia na kuwa hapa lilipo .... kwa wale waliokuwepo hapa nyumbani 1990 - 1996 wataelewa naongelea kitu gani.

    Hayo madhambi yake mengine ataendelea kuyajutia maisha yake yaliyobaki, lakini alibadili mwelekeo wa nchi.

    Mwisho utawala wake ulikuwa ni wa mkono wa chuma na ndiyo maana wote wanaopiga kelele sasa hivi walikuwa kimya wakati baadhi ya madudu yakitendeka kwa vile walikuwa waoga wa kusema wakiogopa kisago ... Ni Augustine Lyatonga Mrema tu alikuwa na kende za kuibua uozo wa serikali ya Mkapa ... na Mzindakaya akidandia kwa mbali hoja zilizokuwa zikiibuliwa na Mrema. Madhila ya kuupigia kelele utawala wa Mkapa, Mrema hatayasahau.

    Mijadala inayoendelea sasa hivi hapa nyumbani katika majukwaa mbalimbali ni uhai kwa Taifa letu. Kama tungebahatika kuwa na upinzani wa kweli, hakuna katika historia ya multipartism tangu 1992 ambako kuliwahi kuwa na fursa ya kujiimarisha kwa vyama vya upinzani kama wakati huu, lakini ndiyo hivyo tena.
     
  17. P

    Pascal Mayalla JF-Expert Member

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    Waibinafsishe mara ngapi?. Mbona Ikulu imeshabinafsishwa zamani, Mkulu is just the piper playing the tunes, the man who matters most is is the ones who pays the piper, is the one who calls the tunes!.
     
  18. A

    Amanikwenu Senior Member

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    Natumaini Post inayohusu Venezuela tumeisoma vizuri. Hugo Chavez na timu yake wanastahili pongezi. Kama Ben alikuwa na madaraka na nguvu ya kufanya yote aliyoyafanya, ni lazima tukubali ukweli kuwa Mkuu wa Nchi ndiye ambaye anaweza kuiangamiza nchi au kuiokoa kwani ana madaraka yaliyovuka mipaka. Bahati mbaya sana kama taifa ubinafsi umetutawala kupita kiasi. Kuna haja ya kufikia hatua ya kuiangalia mikoa yetu kama nchi na kuona nini hasa kila mkoa na wilaya zetu zinafanya kila mwaka. Hivi tuna takwimu sahihi za WanaSayansi tulionoa mikoani na je tunawatumia ipasavyo???. Bado safari ni ndefu sana ila kama Mkuu wa Kaya akiamua kufanya kile ambacho Watanzania wanamtegemea afanye katika kila Sekta (hasa usimamizi wa rasilimali zetu), ndani ya miaka 10 tutakuwa taifa tofauti kabisa.
     
  19. Kite Munganga

    Kite Munganga JF-Expert Member

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    Du mkuu Pasco mbona umegonga penyewe bila hata kupulizia?
     
  20. Masanja

    Masanja JF-Expert Member

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    Mimi hapa muungwana Bongo namuelewa kabisa.

    Hivi wakuu tujiulize, kila siku tunamsifia Nyerere kwamba alijenga viwanda vingi kwa ajili ya kumkomboa mkulima na mtanzania wa kawaida. Hivi naomba niulize. Hivyo viwanda nani alivifilisi? Infact ubinafsishaji ulikuja baada ya sisi kushindwa kuviongoza kwa faida viwanda husika. Sasa nani hapo alaumiwe?

    Hebu tujiulize...ni makampuni gani TANZANIA yanaongozwa na wazalendo, tunaweza kusema ni success story? TANESCO? AU ATCL? Jamani ukweli unauma. Ok, tutasingizia siasa kwenye maamuzi ya haya makampuni..lakini..si ndo leo tunaona hawa wakurugenzi wa makampuni ya umma wakinunua magari ya kifahari na kukarabati nyumba zao..wakati wanatangaza retrenchment kwamba hawana pesa ya kuwalipa wafanya kazi? where are the priorities?

    Mpaka leo hakuna mtanzania mwenye uhakika na umeme....jamani..lets be real. Matatizo mengi ni yetu wenyewe. Hawa so called wawekezaji wanaweza kuwa wanatuibia..but they are simply doing what we have been doing for decades.

    I can say confidently, watanzania na waafrika kwa ujumla..tunaweza kusonga mbele kama tukiweka priorities zetu in order..kumlaumu mgeni haitasaidia lolote. Leo tuko tunasaini mikataba ya miaka 20 na kuendelea..kesho vizazi vya mbeleni..wakiwa wapagazi kama sisi kwenye nchi yao.....watakuwa wanamlaumu mzungu huyo huyo..yet sasa tunagawa mali bila kufikiria.

    Mkapa et al..are just thugs who never thought of their compatriots swimming in poverty.

    Its us to address this situation and not mzungu. Otherwise..we can chose to continue talking petty politics za akina Makamba na Zitto..yet our country is going down the drain.

    Its time to hold to account Kikwete and co. otherwise..lets brace for tough times ahead.
     
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