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Tanzania claims $58m war debt from Uganda

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by LeoKweli, May 7, 2009.

  1. L

    LeoKweli JF-Expert Member

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    Tanzania claims $58m war debt from Uganda
    Yasiin Mugerwa
    Parliament

    It may be 30 years since the war ended but Tanzanian authorities who came to Uganda as liberators still want the pay check for their contribution to the 1979 war that liberated Uganda from Dictator Idi Amin.
    The bill sent to the Uganda government stands at $58m (about Shs120billion).
    The Bill is contained in documents of the Medium Term Expenditure Frame (MTEF), which being scrutinized by Parliament as part of the budget preparation process. It is captured under Uganda’s Public Debt component.
    “Tanzanian is demanding war costs to a tune of $58 million and they have converted their demand into a debt and the government of Uganda is yet to pay because negotiations are still on-going to request for a debt write-off,” Mr Hannington Ashaba, a Senior Economist in the Parliamentary Budget Office told the committee on National Economy on Wednesday.

    Asked to explain, Ashaba said, “Information we got from ministry of finance show that the government of Uganda is yet to pay because negotiations are still on-going to request Tanzania government to reconsider and write-off the debt in question.” [​IMG] H.E General Amin and his soliders at Mutukula.

    In 1979, the Tanzanian People’s Defence Forces (TPDF) on the orders of the country’s former President Julius Nyerere (RIP) entered Uganda to push back soldiers of then President Idi Amin who had invaded the Kagera Salient. Supporting Ugandan exiles in Tanzania who included former President Milton Obote (RIP) and Yoweri Museveni under the Uganda National Liberation Front (UNLF/Army) pushed Idi Amin out of power and helped establish a transitional government in Kampala that led to the 1980 elections.
    While the Shs120 billion war debt to Tanzania were captured in the government’s public debt records, Daily Monitor has learnt that officials in the ministry of finance are pleading with the Tanzanian government to have it canceled in good faith.

    The Committee heard that authorities in Dodoma (Tanzania’s administrative capital) have insisted that Uganda should pay for their contribution made to the liberation war.

    MPs heard that Tanzania received no help from other countries which had denounced its invasion of Uganda, which came hardly two years after it had also played a key role to support the 1977 coup in the Seychelles which brought France-Albert René to power.

    As a result, the government in Dar es Salaam (the administartion headquarters at that time) had to foot the bill for the invasion and subsequent peacekeeping role from its own coffers.
    But MP David Bahati (NRM, Ndorwa West) said; “This is a critical matter and as a Committee we have taken a decision to summon the Finance minister to explain the genesis of this money Tanzania is demanding from us.”

    He added; “We are talking about billions here. But The State Minister for International Relations Okello Oryem down played the claim, “that is old news,” he said, “as far back 1980. Where were you in 1980? I was a Mukombozi by then,” he told this writer
     
  2. P

    Petu Hapa JF-Expert Member

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    Why now! New foreign policy!

    I am not sure of military claims - i shall wait for those who understand military exchange! However, using the formal foreign policy, i would like to assume it was our duty and mandate to protect our boarders and human lives of uganda citizens - do we charge other for that?

    I can not make any comment for now as i have no enough information regarding the uganda mission. I shall hold my emotional response until the grounds for military assistance are explained!
     
  3. L

    LeoKweli JF-Expert Member

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    Inaweza Ikawa EPA ya Uganda hiyo.....
     
  4. G

    Game Theory JF-Expert Member

    #4
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    well...

    I think 120 billion ni kidogo sana

    hivi maisha ya wanajeshi na damu yetu iliyomwagika kule ni dola milioni 60 tuu? Mengi kaiba bilioni 40 pale NBC na hao wengine ndio usisikie

    Nadhani hawa waganda tungedemand minimum 5 billion dollars kama compensation ambayo kwa kuanza inabidi tulipane kupitia sisi kuchua assets in prime area kule kwao kama mashamba na viwanja on top of pesa

    Huu utakuwa mchongo wa BERNARD MEMBE tuuu maana sioni kama kuna mtu ana akili especially yule HUSEIN "mr average" MWINYI

    Tukishapata pesa za Uganda then walipwe mafao ya maana waliopoteza ndugu na zaidi TPDF nadhani apart from zile nyumba mpya wanazojengewa na NSSF nadhani ingekuwa bora zile pesa zingine wakaongezewa kwenye pension yao

    Its the least we can pay

    then tukichacha tudai pesa toka nchi zingine tuliko mwaga damu kama tutakuwa na haki ya kufanya hivyo
     
  5. Zakumi

    Zakumi JF-Expert Member

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    GT:

    Hili deni lilikuwepo kwa muda mrefu sana. Na hii sio mara ya kwanza kwa deni hili kujadiliwa. Au Tanzania kuomba kulipwa deni lake.

    Nakumbuka wakati Mkapa yupo madarakani, mjadala ulizuka kwamba wakati nchi masikini zinaomba kufutiwa madeni na nchi tajiri, nchi hizo zilikuwa hazitaki kufutiana madeni.

    Mfano mzuri ulikuwa wa Uganda kuidai Tanzania na Tanzania kudaiwa na Zimbabwe.
     
  6. Zakumi

    Zakumi JF-Expert Member

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    Yes we do. Baada ya vita, serikali ya Tanzania iliingia mkataba wa miaka miwili ya kulinda amani (kumtayarisha Obote arudi madarakani) na kufundisha jeshi la Uganda.

    Lakini ikumbukwe pia Tanzania ilikuwa na deni la kwenye dollar billioni 8. Na sehemu kubwa ya deni hili imefuatwa. Hivyo haitakuwa vibaya na sisi kufuta.

    Iwapo Gavana wa BOT anaweza kuandika cheki ya dollar 30 millioni kwa vitu visivyoeleweka kwanini tusiweze kuwasamehe wenzetu.

    Pamoja na hayo serikali ya awamu ya pili iliwahi kuingia mikataba na Uganda wa ku-supply umeme katika mkoa wa Kagera. Hivyo nadhani deni la awali lilipungua.
     
  7. J

    Jasusi JF-Expert Member

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    Zakumi,
    Ni kweli tulifutiwa madeni. Lakini usisahau EPA. Watu walichota hela ambazo zingeenda kujenga shule na hospitali. Sasa katika tapatapa zao wanaona ni wapi watapata tena hela kwa hiyo linakuja hili suala la kuidai Uganda. Sasa hivi serikali karibu inafilisika. Nasikia kuna baadhi ya balozi mishahara haijapelekwa kwa miezi miwili.
     
  8. P

    Petu Hapa JF-Expert Member

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    Hapo sawa! Lakini halisi kulipana pesa kwa besa itakuwa ngumu labda kwenye maswala ya huduma na masoko. Sio, lazima tanzania ipate pesa! waangalie tunapoweza kupata huo mrejesho!
     
  9. Icadon

    Icadon JF-Expert Member

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    Watu wanatafuta hela za Campaign, 2010 haiko mbali.
     
  10. G

    Game Theory JF-Expert Member

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    kwa msingi upi?
     
  11. Madela Wa- Madilu

    Madela Wa- Madilu JF-Expert Member

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    Kwa msingi kwamba zikilipwa mafisadi wa CCM watagawana ili wakafanyie shopping wake zao London.

    Wameiba Billions watatoa wapi aibu ya kuacha kuiba hizo million kadhaa???
     
  12. Zakumi

    Zakumi JF-Expert Member

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    Jasusi:

    Deni lilofuatwa ni kubwa sana na kama tumefirisika, basi tuwaite makaburu tu na tuwabebee mabox kwa miaka 100 hivi.
     
  13. Zakumi

    Zakumi JF-Expert Member

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    Kwa misingi ya kindugu tu. Kama deni liliku amortized kwa kipindi chote hiki pesa itakuwa imecharudi na tumeshajifunza kuwa mambo ya ngoso mwashie ngoso mwenyewe.
     
  14. L

    LeoKweli JF-Expert Member

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    Tukilipwa Hizo fedha itatupunguzia Heshima, Tulifanya kwa moyo mmjoja. Kama wako serious wanaweza kutaka hizo fedha ziboreshe miundombinu katika mpaka wa Uganda na Tanzania, as a symbol wich will be beneficial for both countries
     
  15. P

    Pakacha JF-Expert Member

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    nakubaliana nawe. Kwani jamani askari wetu (watoto na ndugu zetu) ni watu wa kukodiwa? Tuliwasaidia Uganda kwa mintarafu ya Undugu na ujirani mwema. Kulikoni kuwasumbua na madeni? Ama kama zinalipwa basi nakubaliana nawe ziwanufaishe wale watu wa mpakani wote (wa Uganda na Tanzania)
     
  16. Mwiba

    Mwiba JF-Expert Member

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    Watwambie na msumbiji wanadai ngapi ,Angola wanadai ngapi ,South Afrika wanadai ngapi ,Darfur wanadai ngapi ,Comoro wanadai ngapi na kama haitoshi na Zanzibar wanadaiwa ngapi tukumbuke tu kuwa majeshi na mapolisi wakiwa na mizinga na marockert launcher huwa wanapelekwa ,tena sio mara moja kila baada ya miaka mitano kuilinda Zanzibar.

    Hawa wanatafuta kuziibia nchi nyengine kiulaini wakati wameshaona hapa ndani wameshitukiziwa. Dah utawala wa Sultani CCM mwisho kwa kusaka vijisent :D
     
  17. Mwiba

    Mwiba JF-Expert Member

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    Kwa sheria za kivita Tanzania ilikuwa na haki kuichukua Uganda na kuiweka chini ya himaya yake ,hizo ndizo taratibu za kijeshi kwa jinsi ya vita yenyewe ilivyoanza ,na waliwahi kushauriwa kuwa mmeshinda vita hiyo nchi ni yenu ,wakajitia kuwa ni ndugu ,sasa kama ni ndugu mnadai kitu gani ? Wacheni kujionoshea heshima ambayo tuliikubali hapo mwanzo. Heshima ya Tanzania imeanza kupotea ,South Afrika hawawaheshimu tena WaTz na wengine watafuatia.
     
  18. Ukweliii

    Ukweliii Member

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    Jamani mambo mengine ni AIBUU, AIBU kabisa.
    • Ukiangalia historia ya hizi nchi na watu wake....
    • Mahitaji ya usalama Tanzania, (Sio Uganda) Idi Amini alivamia TZ mara ngapi? Angeendelea kuwa madarakani angeendelea kuvamia? Baada ya Kumtoa Idi Amini, Uganda ingeachwa tuuuu (yangetokea kama ya Iraq?) Kwa TZ ilikuwepo sababu "VERY SELFISH" ya kutoa Idi Amini
    • Habari zilizokuwa zinatolewa wakati wa vita (Tanzania walikuwa wanamtoa nduli aliye vamia nchi yao! Na majeshi ya Tanzania hayakuingia Uganda bali majeshi ya ukombozi wa Uganda ndiyo yalimtoa Idi Amini madarakani. Majeshi ya TZ yalikwenda yaliingia rasmi Uganda kwenda kujenga/kufundisha Jeshi jipya la Uganda.
    • Siasa za wakati huo wa JKN zilikuwa UKOMBOZI na TZ imelipa sana kwa damu, pesa, kupoteza marafiki, kukosa uwekezaji na mengi mengi zaidi

    Sasa mimi nashangaa kuwa madeni yanatoka wapi?

    Naona hata aibu ya kuimba wimbo wa kuwasha mwenge na kuuweka juu ya mlima Kilimanjaro...
     
  19. Z

    ZeMarcopolo JF-Expert Member

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    Huu ni wakati wa kuhakikisha kwamba mwananchi ananufaika moja kwa moja na nchi yake. Uganda hata wakikubali kulipa hilo deni itakuchukua miaka mingi kutekeleza ulipaji na inaweza siku ya kulipa isifike kabisa. Cha kufanya, kwa vile hii ni haki ya watanzania, Uganda ina vyuo vikuu. convert hiyo pesa into University tuition fees halafu ianze programme ya kuwapeleka wanafunzi wa Tanzania kusoma Uganda on that pesa kupitia bajeti ya wizara ya Elimu ya Uganda (say kila mwaka wanafunzi 30). Programme inaweza kuwa hata ya miaka 15 kwa vile pesa ni nyingi na inaweza kuwa vigumu kwa serikali ya Uganda kucover at once.
     
  20. Mwiba

    Mwiba JF-Expert Member

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    Vita ilipoanza hatukurudi nyuma mambo yalikuwa ni mbele kwa mbele hadi tukagonga mipaka ya nchi inazopakana na Uganda ,asikwambie mtu kulikuwa na majeshi ya wakombozi ambayo yakikuwa front line ,hakuna isipokwa wachache tu ambao wakitusaidia katika kuchochoreka.
     
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