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Questioning Mwalimu is of benefit to our understanding

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Juma Contena, Aug 27, 2010.

  1. Juma Contena

    Juma Contena JF-Expert Member

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    Do we actually believe questioning ‘Mwalimu’ is showing a lack of respect?

    It appears so to us Tanzanians especially here in JF, no wonder we are in this state of ‘dire poverty’, and lack of questioning being part of that problem. I believe we need to be able to question for us to come up with solutions, or else we shall remain stagnant in our development for a long period of time.

    Questioning is not for the purpose of disrespecting like most of us seem to perceive, but its rather about finding answers to the curious minds. For instance ‘Mwalimu’ left us with many questions unanswered poverty being one, leadership capability after him: there is no doubt in my mind we ought to consider ourselves lucky for having him as our first President not many people could have achieved the tasks of the first ‘leader’ as he did, be it he copied the thinking from another African leader.

    Nevertheless there still remain many more questions to be answered the abrupt decision to end his reign, his contradictory policies, the state of the economy he left us with and ‘his’ general thinking as our first president. For instance we're taught to believe by many elders ‘Mwalimu’ operated like a saint, explore other books outside and you'd find ‘Mwalimu’ was well read but not creative (he had no original ideas) and this showed at the end of his reign particularly the weak individuals he left behind to lead us.

    Since ‘Mwalimu’ had led us for more than two decades and a half surely we have the right to probe his thinking. Realistically we can’t do that unless we go through his psychology and that is our responsibility not only that, it is also our right to debate on ‘Mwalimu’. Debating is not an attempt to put blemish on his reign but finding the truth about our past in trying to understand our position today.

    I don’t know about others, myself I am very curious especially with the politics he left behind. We know ‘Mwalimu’ ran the country in an almost ‘authoritarian’ manner. But then I wonder who were his closest confidantes that he confided with politically especially on his crucial decision making. Did he even had any allies who he trusted inside his government, did he prepare any individuals to govern after him.

    I am asking all these questions because at times I wonder is it just me and others don’t see the irony that how does someone like ‘Kikwete’ gets to run the country yet there are so many qualified better people for the job and some can’t even make a decent living for themselves in Tanzania. Not to mention the obvious public known deteriorating healthy state of the current president, and why there are no challenges despite his poor abilities? why did the ruling party nominate him for the second time with an overwhelming majority is it fear or people are just stupid?

    Furthermore why do we have leaders today we can’t question, make them accountable, leaders who rig elections and what is the basis of their power. Did ‘Mwalimu’ relied too much in influencing the national security, and used the sector too much in intimidating his rivals. Because even today car accident are still common and not many of us have forgotten the public death of ‘Kolimba’ whilst ‘Mwalimu’ was still pretty much the ‘puppet master’. Is that still the fear tactic today?

    Mwalimu also stood promoting socialism of an equal society whilst invented or implemented colonial policies that aimed to leave worse off, those at the bottom of the social surely we have to question his thinking particularly the foundations of those ideas and why preach to offer ‘Sangara’ to people only to give out ‘Dagga’.

    Today we sit here asking ourselves why China has achieved so much in little time. What we don’t ask what if ‘Deng Xiaoping’ hadn’t taken the extreme decision to burn many of ‘Mao Zendong’ writings and banning the preaches of his ideas.

    If we must know the Chinese added much effort in exerting new ideas by changing the 'social thinking' especially the 'agrarian socialism ideology' preferred by ‘Mao Zendong’ not that Mao wasn’t liked any more but they believed his teachings were outdated and did not fit the future.

    This is why China is where it is today and it wouldn’t have been possible if they clung in misleading its people. It’s the truth that brings about development and people attitudes towards life and understanding not just few politicians.

    For that matter we should stop trying to protect ‘Mwalimu’ for the sake of future generations we have the right to probe his 'psyche' through his decisions, his speeches and his actions for us to understand our past and plan for a better future.
     
  2. Makanyaga

    Makanyaga JF-Expert Member

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    Uko right, lakini nadhani hatuwezi kuwa na vipaumbele vya namna hii. Simple minds discuss people! Wewe kwa akili yako kabisa timilifu unadhani katika hali tuliyonayo, matatizo luluki tunaweza kupata ufumbuzi wake (reliable solution) kupitia mijadala ya kumjadili mwalimu? Upeo wako wa kuchanganua mambo unaonekana ni mdogo sana. Hapa issue ni kutoa hoja, na si kuwa na mda wa kucheza na keyboard halafu unaandika "just anything", chochte kile kinachokuja kichwani. Watu wa namna yako mimi huwa wananisikitisha sana!
     
  3. Nyani Ngabu

    Nyani Ngabu Platinum Member

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    Ni 'lukuki'. Hiyo 'luluki' labda ni kilugha chenu

    Chochote :becky:
     
  4. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Ukim question mwalimu unaweza usiwe una question mtu, bali ukawa una question concepts vile vile, concepts kama leadership, how do we value truth, how do we look at questioning authority etc.

    I think the piece carries a very important message, that we lack the main characteristics required for development, honest evaluation, respect for principles and not people (you can only question people like Mwalimu if your respect for the questioning principle is higher than your respect for the person )

    Kwa hiyo unaposikia "Simple minds discuss people" haimaanishi kila mtu anayem question Nyerere anarepresent simple mind, inawezekana katika kum discuss Nyerere ana discuss major ideas na valuesza culture yetu, in turn anakuwa ana discuss ideas.
     
  5. Juma Contena

    Juma Contena JF-Expert Member

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    Simple in terms of what? did you grasp the message thoroughly au unadandia treni kwa mbele. kwa kukusaidia the aim is not discuss mwalimu as a person but rather his abilities and his lasting legacy.

    Mfano do our problems todays have any relations to his ruling style kama uwezi jadili kazi njema 'machi-nowa'. Sina muda wa kukejeliana na watu nisio wajua kwa mantiki ya kutaka kuleta fujo zisizo na maana.

    asubuhi njema
     
  6. LeopoldByongje

    LeopoldByongje JF-Expert Member

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    Simple minds discuss people! HESHIMA JUU MKUU. SEMA UZIOGOPE SEMA HAPA JF HATUOGOPI ............
     
  7. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    You may be discussing ideas by discussing people, for example, you may discuss our notion of leadership by discussing the leader, you may test our acceptance of questioning authority by questioning one person.

    Simple minds are taken by simple sloganeering like "Simple minds discuss people" without context.

    Ever heard of the Pulitzer prize in biography ? Ever read one ? Are they simple ? Do they not discuss people ?
     
  8. LeopoldByongje

    LeopoldByongje JF-Expert Member

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    Uganda ilikuwa vitani zaidi ya miaka 16; na walimaliza vita baada ya Nyerere kusitaafu uongozi wa taifa je leo wako wapi?
    Mozambique walipigana vita na tuliwasaidia katika vita hiyo, je leo unaweza kuwalinganisha na tanzania? Rwanda pamoja na vita ya wenyewe kwa wenyewe leo wako hatua gani kimaendeleo. Sasa unataka kutuambia nini? Kwamba matatizo yenu yalisababishwa na Nyerere? Sera zake zilitupiliwa mbali hata kabla hajafa way back in the late 1980's chini ya Azimio la Zanzibar. Tangu atutoke ana zaidi ya miaka kumi sasa. Jamani muogopeni Mungu. Matatizo yenu ni ubinafsi, ufisadi, kutoheshimu katiba; na uzembe wa kufikiri na kutenda NA HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MWALIMU LEGACY. RIP JULIUS KAMBARAGE NYERERE BURITO A TRUE SON OF OUR LAND AND AFRICA.
     
  9. Juma Contena

    Juma Contena JF-Expert Member

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    usipoteze muda wako watu wengine masikio ya kufa...... kama unavyoona kwenye siasa za upinzani.
     
  10. Makanyaga

    Makanyaga JF-Expert Member

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    Mzee Ngabu;
    Leo na wewe umenikamata,..., tatizo umenikamata kwenye keyboard na siyo kwenye ubongo
     
  11. W

    WildCard JF-Expert Member

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    Threads zinazomzungumzia Mwalimu ziko nyingi tu humu. Itoshe tu kusema kwamba MAZURI ya Mwalimu ni mengi sana. Sio vibaya kama utachukua muda ukasoma maandishi yake, hotuba zake, yale alooyasimamia, uadilifu wake, mapungufu yake,......
     
  12. Makanyaga

    Makanyaga JF-Expert Member

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    Unfortunately sijasoma anything of the like. Sikatai kujadili ideas za watu ndiyo maana nikaanza kwa kumwambia kuwa "yuko right", tatizo langu ni priority. Are we at a point where our priority at the climax, should be a discussion of Nyerere's whatever in order for us to be able to move to a point where we long a lot and so much wish? I guess it should only be a part in a combination of complex things (sytem) affecting our daily lives in all the known important dimensions!

     
  13. Juma Contena

    Juma Contena JF-Expert Member

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    Jibu ya Tanzania usidandie ya Mozambique, Rwanda, Uganda na kwingineko something i believe you know very little in terms of their current political affairs. Ndio maana at times watu wengine usema mnamatatizo ya comprehension on grasping whats been asked. Nimeuliza iweje leo hawa viongozi wawe na viburi hivi na nguvu wamezitoa wapi kutishia watu si maraia au kupiga mikwara vitu kama migomo and other demonstration. Hila nimetumia neno kama nguvu za security, iweje leo wasomi wako doro hawa ni wale wazee ambao wamosema enzi za nyerere akuwatumia au vipi?

    Miundo kama ya policies inatoka vipi nani ana nguvu za kuzipinga je kuna mfumo mpya au ni ule ule wa mwalimu. In short have you ever read any political autobiography uka elewa mwandishi anavyotoa justified arguments of the inner thinking ya kiongozi. So far i dont see any input from you in my quaries. Im not for the blemish but for the learning we jifanye unaleta mambo ya Mozambique sijui wapi alafu na mimi nikurushie moto wa huko unapotaka kwenda hila first things first.

    Kwanza nikuulize swali moja what was nyerere most second accomplishment in Tanzania in your view? hili niweze kujua na deal na nani.
     
  14. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Priorities za nani? Priorities zako si sawa na zangu.
     
  15. Juma Contena

    Juma Contena JF-Expert Member

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    I appreciate that, hata mimi nakubali kuna mazuri mengi hila sometimes ni muhimu kujua na peoples own opinion of mwalimu's legacy did he leave the country in a better state. I'd like to hear peoples' own honest opinions and not the 70% who cant mix with theirs. As for me my mind is made up and not a good one in general of mwalimu.

    I can justify my arguments if i have too, so i need to hear other peoples justfiable arguments na si kusema 'hoo' tulisaidia huku, sijui kule mbona vile. Thats is what you call simple one line no argument to follow (reasons for saying) be it a particular policy helped in 'this and that' or that decisons was based on so and so scenario. Na si watu wanaokuja na wewe unajua kuhusu hili bila kusema limesaidia vipi tanzania as a whole.
     
  16. Semilong

    Semilong JF-Expert Member

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    We Tanzanians need to remove these 3 words (lack of respect, bahati mbaya n mambo ya mungu) from our dictionary if we were to have any meaningfull development.

    mwalimu alikuwa amezungukwa na wanasiasa na sio watendaji, na alikuwa anawaamini sana wale wanasiasa kwa ajili wote walikuwa ni "yes boss". ukiangalia kwenye historia ya utawala wake utaona alishindwa kuelewana na Edwin Mtei kuhusu kuvibinafsisha viwanda ambayo hii ni policy muhimu katika uchumi wa nchi yetu. kitu kama hichi usingetegemea kitokee kwa kawawa au mwanasias mwingine yule. Viongozi aliokuwa nao walikuwa ni wazuri kabla ya uhuru na baada ya uhuru walikuwa hawajui cha kufanya.
    mwalimu alikataa ushindani na alikuwa hawezi kufanya kazi na watu ambao ha agree nao, watu wengi ambao walikuwa hawakubaliani nae walikimbia nje ya nchi. kufanya kazi na watu ambao ni riaval ni kitu kizuri sana kwa maendeleo ya nchi blair n brown did it successful.
    kikwete ni product ya nyerere na hana tofauti na wale viongozi wa uhuru. ukiangalia historia ya kikwete utaona ni siasa na jeshini tu, hajawahi kuongoza kampuni yeyote ile au hata kuwa "policy wonk".

    mwalimu alitumia security na watu kama sheikh yahya kudeal na rivals wake kitu ambacho mpaka leo bado kinaendelea
     
  17. Juma Contena

    Juma Contena JF-Expert Member

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    Kaka

    Ni hizo sababu unazozizungumzia ndio na mimi nilikuwa nataka kuzielewa kwa undani kutoka na kwa wengine pia kama ingewezekana. Na si kwa mantiki ya kumchafua 'Mwalimu' kama wengine wanavyo interpret (reasons for believing so only known to themselves). Lakini inakuwa vigumu kuelezana kina na ukweli wa mambo kutokana na fikra za watu wengine especially ukitumia hiyo mistaari uliyoileta imekuwa kama 'taboo' kwenye jamii zetu kuulizia vitu fulani. Sasa sijui tutaeliminishana kitu gani na tuta waachia historia gani vizazi vya keshokutwa maana mimi ni cha leo na its pretty much a propaganda history.

    Its is an open fact muundo wa serikali yetu ni kama wa utawala wa Nyerere (ingawa yeye alikuwa na ideology japo aikuzaa matunda mema) the only difference na sasa ni kwamba the government imepunguza the force used for us to be considered a police state na viongozi wanajna mno wanaotupelekesha shaglabaghala without a total vision as in 'Mwalimu' times.

    Lakini lazima tujiulize iweje bado viongozi wa juu wawe na nguvu za ajabu kwenye kuendesha mambo ya serikali. There is no denying 'Mwalimu' has been accused of many atrocities in his time some of them can be defended politically even by myself despite not being is total fan. Mfano the usage of intimidation in our earlier phases was necessary if we were to be a nation. Jambo hili linathibitisha waafrika kuwa na fikra za busara kuliko wazungu wanavyotuzania. The idea was formulated by the genius of 'Nkrumah' he was quick to spot the need to do so. Arguing africans are yet to be a nation, kwanza tulikuwa a bunch of tribes joint together in the scrumble to divide africa for colonial benefits.

    Hivyo kulikuwa amna kiashiria ya kuwa kuna utaifa na makabila mengi bado yalikuwa na u-chiefdom, kwa mtaji huo 'Nkrumah' aka buni kwanza ni kuumaliza huu ukabila if we are to go anywhere as a group na mifano kutoka Nigeria ambayo ilipata uhuru kabla yao iliishaanza kuonyesha athari za u-chief dom (inakuwa ngumu kuwa na central respected government by the masses).

    Wakati huo bado kulikuwa na viongozi wengine ambao walitaka madaraka na wasomi vilevile wakitaka a different method of running the state. Ndipo hapo Nkrumah alipoanza ku deal nao hao wapinzani kwa sababu wange wachanganya wananchi wengi. Wakati yeye alikuwa kwenye process ya kutoa uchief na kuunda utaifa wenye fikra moja na ni mfumo huu nchi nyingi za africa zikaja ukopi baada ya uhuru. In my opinion it was a necessary phase hili kuleta umoja katika nchi na amna alieutumia mfumo kwa ufanisi africa kama Mwalimu kwa manufaa yetu.

    Concerns zangu zinakuja je mwalimu alikuwa na long-term visions gani after that, it seems hakuwa tayari kutayarisha mrithi hata mmoja. Ndipo hapo huwa najiuliza sasa kazi kubwa alishaifanya ambayo ilikuwa ni challenging of the most (our neighbours kenya, uganda, burundi, rwanda always remind how mammoth was the task, kwani wao mpaka leo awawezi ishi pamoja). Kailinda asset ya Tanzania mpaka anaondoka lakini akuondoka kama mtu aliekuwa amejiandaa kuondoka, yaani kuhakikisha mashule ya jengwe watu waanze kuchallenge, vyuo viongezeke, atafute mbinu ya kurudisha wasomi waliomkimbia.

    Unaweza sema mwalimu kama alifanya pupa za kuondoka madarakani kabla ya kuhakikisha nchi anaiwacha kwenye demokrasia ya kueleweka, kuvunja nguvu za polisi na mengine mengi yanaoendelea leo. Ndipo hapo napo jiuliza huyu mtu kweli alikuwa anashauriana na mtu/watu, or he was just a loner who got tired in the end and decided to quit, or was he guilty of the levels of propaganda he fed us especially considering the rise and rise of the late 'Sokoine' knowing he was preaching dead ideas to the masses yet most thought of him as the likely successor.

    Many argue or believe it was his decision to eliminate the late 'Sokoine' only to retire a short time after that. So the jealous motive is out of the question, then what were his final thoughts. Was there too much pressure for him to retire from the outside world for us to get the much needed aid at the time. So many questions remained unanswered about Mwalimu that are indirectly affecting us today, I think it is our duty to adress them and we need an honest account of those who shared experience with Mwalimu so that we can give an honest opinion of the man.
     
  18. K

    Kizibao JF-Expert Member

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    Nashidwa kufahamu kwa nini watu wako too protective Kwa Nyerere na hata Serikali yetu pia,na kwa nini tusimjadili?Na kuna mtu mmoja amesema simple mind discuss people, basi JF yote ni simple mind kwani tunawajadili watu kila siku hapa Kuanzia Kikwete,Slaa,Kabwe... au hii just inakuja wakati kitu kunamuhusu Nyerere tu?Kuna mwengine amesema Nyerere ameiwacha nchi ikiwa nzuri .. give me a break na mwengine amesema pengine Azimio la Zanzibar ndiyo tatizo....Inaonyesha watu hata hawaijui TZ na huwa wanaropokwa tu bila ya kuwa na idea na nini wanakisema!Mpaka napata wasi wasi inaonyesha kumkingia kifua mwalimu kuna manufaa na group fulani ya watu au dini fulani nashaangaa sana wacheni watu watoe dukuduku lao na wacheni waeke wazi jinsi gani mtu mnaemwita baba wa taifa pengine hastahili sifa hiyo.
    Wakati Mwalim anakufa siku zile nilikuwa ndiyo kwanza naaza chuo kikuu.niliposoma New week kuna tungo moja waliitumia mpaka leo ninaikumbuka ilikuwa ni hivi ''A man who lead his country into absolute poverty died as a man of principle'' yule muandishi alikuwa anatushangaa sana sisi watanzania kwa tulikuwa tunamsikitikia na baadae akatoa conclusion ya kuwa tulikuwa hatujui just tupo tupo na hatuna idea ya chochote ukiacha wale wachache waliokuwapo madarakani na walikuwa hawako tayari kumkata paka mkia.
    Matatizo ya Tanzani yalianza miaka michache baada ya azimio la arusha na watu kutaifisha mali(anachokifanya mugabe sasa hivi) na kuanzishwa vijiji vywa ujamaa,kwani viliifanya Tz kuwa nchi ya kutegemea chakula kutoka nje baada ya kuwa ni msafirishaji wa chakula kutoka nje..rushwa ilikuwa imeshamiri kunako miaka ya mwanzo ya 70 na mpaka kufika miaka ya 75 tanzania ilikuwa inakaribia kufilisika na tukaokolewa na bank ya dunia na IMF,baada ya kuokolewa na mabepari wawili akaamuwa kwenda kupigana vita kwa sababu anazozijua yeye mwenyewe.na mwishoni na miaka ya 70 na mwanzoni ya miaka ya 80 vijiji vywa ujamaa vilikuwa na asilimia 90 ya wananchi wa Tz yote lakini vilikuwa vinazalisha only 5%ya chakula.na Kufika 1984 Tanzania ili kuepuka na janga lililokua nalo inabidi kuomba msaada IMF na World Bank lakini tukapewa masharti ya kubadili mfumo wa uchumi ili tupate msaada.
    Mwalimu baada ya kuona hivyo na alishidwa ku admit kwa alikuwa ni Failure pale alipotangaza ya kuwa anastaafu huku akijua ya kuwa once akichukua msaada kutoka IMF na world Bank ni kuyala matapishi yake bora astaafu na kumuachia janga lote lile Mzee Mwinyi huku uma wa watanzania wakiwa hawajui nini kinaendelea.Sasa siku zote unapotaka kulijua tatizo lazima uwende kwenye basic na kwa mtazamo huu Nyerere ndiyo basic.kusingekuwa na reforms 1985 kama siyo sera zake yeye ambazo zimeiacha nchi Fukara.Nakumbuka tuko secondary miaka ya mwazo ya 90 tulikuwa tuna mwalimu mmarekani sasa mimi na mwenzangu tulikuwa tunamsifia nyerere tulipokuwa tunazungumza na yeye huyo mwalimu basi hakutujibu kitu bali alicheka tu...na niliijua sababu ya kucheka baada ya kutoka TZ na kuanza kusoma mambo ya nchi yangu na ni kweli Nyerere Ni Failure.
    Mungu Ibariki Tanzania
     
  19. Companero

    Companero Platinum Member

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    Hakuna mtu katika historia ya Tanzania ambaye amehojiwa kama Mwalimu Nyerere. Na kumhoji huko hakukuanza leo wala hakutaisha kesho. Kinachopaswa sasa ni sisi kujihoji tunafanya nini - pale Nyerere aliposhindwa sisi vipi? Leo nimetembelea shamba ambalo Nyerere alilianzisha kwa ushirikiano na watu wa Korea, wenyewe wanaliita KOTACO. Majengo yapo tu na shamba kapewa mwekezaji. Sasa hapo wa kuhojiwa ni sisi kuhusu namna ambavyo tunanufaika na mwekezaji huyo na namna tunavyoyatumia majengo hayo na umeme uliovutwa na KOTACO katika kitongoji cha hapo enzi hizo. Hivyo hivyo tunapaswa kujihoji kuhusu vyote tulivyovibinafsisha baada ya Nyerere kuvitaifisha na Watanzania kushindwa kuviendesha - tujihoji kuhusu mashamba ya NAFCO, NARCO Viwanda vya Ubungo Garments n.k. - Je, vina tija gani sasa hivi na kwa manufaa ya nani?
     
  20. K

    Kizibao JF-Expert Member

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    Hapo umenena.... nakupa Tano wangu.
     
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