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Poor people are more taxed

Discussion in 'Biashara, Uchumi na Ujasiriamali' started by Exaud J. Makyao, Feb 3, 2009.

  1. Exaud J. Makyao

    Exaud J. Makyao JF-Expert Member

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    Generally poor people are more taxed.
    The tax systems contribute directly to peoples' poor conditions.
    When basic human needs like foods, fuel and soft drinks are taxed,
    the effect go directly to the poor class.
    How can poor people be rescued from these killing taxes?
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2009
  2. Bongolander

    Bongolander JF-Expert Member

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    What are you trying to suggest? Do you mean the rich do not pay these taxes or they pay less because they are rich? Who are main contributors to government coffers, Businesses or the poor? Mkuu au nawe umeingia kwenye mtego wa wanasiasa uchwara. Uliza vizuri TRA nani ni walipakodi wakubwa then bring your arguments. Kwa ufupi the poor are not even able to pay taxes, how can they pay more than those who can.?? Do you know???
     
  3. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Bongolander,

    Nafikiri mwenzetu anaongelea zaidi milingano mizima ya mahesabu ya uwiano.

    Ni kama katika ile hadithi ya kwenye kitabu cha dini, ambapo mama mjane alitoa kisenti kidogo tu kama zaka wakati mafarisayo wakatoa pesa nyingi, nabii akauliza, katika hawa aliyetoa zaidi ni nani? Ikaja gundulika yule aliyetoa kisenti kidogo ndiye aliyetoa zaidi kwa sababu alitoa senti yake ya ngama, wakati wale waliotoa hela nyingi walitoa walizosaza.

    Inawezekana matajiri wanalipa pesa nyingi sana kama kodi, lakini hizo pesa ni kiasi kidogo sana cha kipato chao.

    Wakati huo huo ukiangalia masikini, ukijumlisha kodi zote wanazolipa unakuta wanalipa asilimia kubwa zaidi ya kipato chao katika kodi.

    Kwa ujumla matajiri wana mbinu nyingi za kuepuka kulipa kodi na masikini wanavunjwa moyo na umasikini wao au hawajui hata kujaribu kutumia misamaha ya kodi wanayoweza kuitumia kisheria.
     
  4. Exaud J. Makyao

    Exaud J. Makyao JF-Expert Member

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    Nadhani umerukia mada bila kufikiri sawa sawa.
    Ukitaka kulinganisha ulipaji wa kodi na mlipaji huwezi kuangalia tu kiasi.
    Unahitaji kujua tofauti ya kiasi cha kodi na uwiano wa ulipaji.

    Mfano,
    Mtu mwenye shilingi millioni kumi akitozwa shilingi laki moja na mtu mmwenye shilingi elfu tano akitozwa shilingi mia tano aliyetozwa zaidi ni yule wa elifu tano.
    Suala lako la TRA na vinginevyo halibadilishi ukweli.
    Usipige mahesabu ya kisiasa, piga hesabu za kiuchumi mkuu.
     
  5. Exaud J. Makyao

    Exaud J. Makyao JF-Expert Member

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    Asante kwa mawazo yaliyoenda shule mkuu.
    Hakuna ubishi.
     
  6. Lole Gwakisa

    Lole Gwakisa JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu Exaud Makyao, ungepost hii thread kwa kiswahili ungeeleweka zaidi.
    Ilivo andikwa haileweki-POOR PEOPLE ARE MORE TAX! maana yake nini hasa!
    Umefikiri kwa kiswahili na umeandika a direct translation kwa kiingereza! watch your language.
     
  7. SMU

    SMU JF-Expert Member

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    Tumsamehe, ni typo tu:).
     
  8. Next Level

    Next Level JF-Expert Member

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    BL, Exaud etc,

    Kilam mmoja wenu anaweza kuwa sahihi kwa namna moja au nyingine!

    Kwanza kabisa naomba kabla ya kuchangia hii kitu, tutofautishe aina za kodi hapa, then kwa kila moja tuangalie kundi lipi (matajiri na masikini or walaji wa mwisho) ambalo huchangia zaidi kodi kwa taifa.

    Kuna makundi makubwa mawili ya kodi nayo ni;
    a) Direct taxes
    b) Indirect taxes

    Direct taxes ni kodi ambazo burden yake hubebwa moja kwa moja na mtu anaye lipa kodi husika. Mfano wa kodi hizo ni kama, kodi ya makampuni (corporate tax), kodi za zuio (withholding taxes), kodi zitokanazo na ajira (employment taxes e.g PAYE AS YOU EARN -PAYE), kodi kutoka kwenye investments etc. Kwa aina hizi za kodi, kadiri mtu anavyopata kipato kikubwa ndivyo anavyo changia kodi kubwa zaidi, kwa kuwa zote ziko based on asilimia fulani ya pato lako au faida yako. Hivyo, ukiangalia aina hii ya kodi watu wa kipato cha juu, wanalipa zaidi ya wale wa kipato cha chini...Mfano, katika sheria ya kodi ya mapato Mwaka 2004, (ITA 2004), kama wewe umeajiriwa na unapata mshahara pamoja na marupurupu mengine yasiyo zidi Tshs 100,000...hutakiwi kulipa kodi kabisa, wakati wanaopata kiwangu kikubwa zaidi ha hiki, hutakiwa kulipa kodi, ingawa nao wanasamehewa laki moja ya kwanza! au kama unakodisha nyumba unatakiwa kulipa 10% ya rent kama kodi ya zuio, hivyo kadiri mtu anavyopata rental income kubwa ndivyo atakavyochangia zaidi!

    Indirect taxes hizi ni kodi ambazo burden yake humpata mlaji wa mwisho.....sasa hapa mlaji wa mwisho si lazima awe masikini! mfano wa kodi hizi ni kama, VAT, Stamp duty, exercise duty, import duty etc. Sasa tuchukilie mfano wa mfanyabiashara (company or sole propriator) say anauza nguo ambazo kaziingiza toka nje ya nchi. Huyu bwana, akimport hutakiwa kulipa VAT (20%), Import duty (25%) etc hizo kwake anazifanya kama gharama za bidhaa (nguo) alizo agiza, so bei yake ya piece moja ya nguo itatake into account kodi hizo, kama yupo registered kwa VAT kwa mfano, atakapo uza nguo zake kwa mfano anatakiwa kucharge VAT tena ya 20% (hii si gharama yake) kwa mnunuzi wa mwisho anayeenda kuvaa nguo husika.....! mnunuzi wa mwisho hana kwa kuidamp hiyo VAT, so final consumer ndiye mlipaji halisi wa INDIRECT TAXES. Lakini, ukichukulia the fact that, wafanyabiashara kama consumers wa bidhaa na huduma mbalimbali, burden ya kodi hii nao huipata wanapo kuwa wanaincur expenses for private purposes (not for business). Hivyo, burden ya indirect tax ukilinganisha Business vs individual consumers / final consumers ndio walipa kodi wakubwa sana, lakini ukija kuangalia the fact that hata hao business people ni consumers in one way or another, utaona ulipaji kodi kwa ni mkubwa kuliko low income earners kwa sababu, high income earners ndio maspender wakubwa sana and the higher you sepend the higher you pay tax!

    Hayo ndio maoni yangu! Need more?
     
  9. Next Level

    Next Level JF-Expert Member

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    Not necessary, the effect to go directly to ''POOR PEOPLE'' inategemeana

    a) Aina ya kodi unayozungumzia hapa
    b) Definition yako ya POOR PEOPLE

    See my comments above
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2009
  10. J

    Jafar JF-Expert Member

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    Next Level:
    Tatizo langu kubwa ni kwamba wafanyabiashara/matajiri wanalipa kodi baada ya kupata faida baada ya kutoa gharama za uendeshaji. Hivyo basi mambo yao yooote ya matumizi au gharama zao za maisha (kibiashara) pia ni gharama za biashara. Lakini huyu mnyonge/mfanyakazi anapolipa PAYE etc hawamuulizi matumizi yake ni kiasi gani ili wakate kile kinachobakia, huwa anakatwa kodi hata kabla hajashika hiyo hela. Kwa maana hiyo maskini ndio wanaolipa kodi kubwa (relatively to their incomes).
     
  11. Exaud J. Makyao

    Exaud J. Makyao JF-Expert Member

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    LOLE,
    Nadhani umekosa mawazo au wewe ni mpenzi sana wa kiswahili..
    Kama ungekuwa na wazo la kuchangia ungegundua kwamba kichwa cha habari hii kinajitosheleza badala ya kujishika na kosa la maandishi.
    Nilipaswa kuandika POOR PEOPLE ARE MORE TAXED, kama kichwa kinavyosema.
    Ehe, nini mawazo yako sasa?
     
  12. Next Level

    Next Level JF-Expert Member

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    Last edited: Feb 4, 2009
  13. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    When you say more, you have to define what do you mean, do you mean more as a percentage of their total income or more in terms of the absolute amount of money.

    Comparing the amount of money two people pay as taxes, with one having an annual income of $ 500 and another $ 500, 000,000 would be ridiculous. A more meaningful way would be to compare the percentage of income paid as taxes.

    Hence the relevancy of my above post.
     
  14. Lole Gwakisa

    Lole Gwakisa JF-Expert Member

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    Sawa kabisa Mzee Exaud Makyao,Mimi si mpenzi tu wa kiswahili sanifu lakini vilevile kiingereza fasaha.
    Correct self expression is halfway to getting your message across!
    Turudi kwenye mada.
    Mtu masikini, anayetegemea kila kitu dukani ndiye mlipakodi mkuu nchini.
    Kodi zode zinakuwa zime pandikizwa kwenye bidhaa hizo.
    Mfanya biashara ana leeway katika kodi.Administration ya kodi ina mbinu nyingi na mfanya biashara anuwezo wa kukwepa kodi myingine.
    Mfanya kazi hawezi kuingia katika kundi masikini kabisa kutokana na ukweli kuwa yeye vile vile anauwezo wa kukwepa kodi kwa kuto lipia kodi allowances nyingine anazopewa.
     
  15. Next Level

    Next Level JF-Expert Member

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    Unamaanisha nini unaposema ...ana leeway ktk kodi? Halafu sina uhakika kama mtoa thread hii alikuwa anazungumzia wafanyabiashara kukwepa kodi kama sababu mojawapo ya kulipa kidogo....nafikiri assumption hapa ni kuwa ikiwa kila moja (businessman or tajiri na masikini /fukara)anafuata sheria za kodi, nani analipa zaidi?
     
  16. O

    Orkesumet Member

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    What makyao says does hold water coz the issue here it is not the amount of money corporates remit to the TRA from their taxable incomes. It is all on the proportion of tax deducted to the taxable income. Consider an employee who earns say Shs 5m pm and a well established business entity. The PAYE deducted from this employee on a monthly basis will be 28% whereas the business entity corporate tax will be subject to a number of factors - which influence the bottom figure - taxable profit. and in some cases may result to losses and for that case no tax payable to the TRA. From the a simple scenario you may see that middle class suffer most %wise than the established entities. And according to world bank reports employee taxes from our economy is over 30%. Still not conviced?
     
  17. Next Level

    Next Level JF-Expert Member

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    Employee getting 5m pm will pay 1.254mil as PAYE which is 25% of the total income! Well establishe business will pay 30% of their taxable profits! Mind you there a lot of business risks that are born by companies, wht is the risk the employee bear here?
    After all I thought we are comparing, the rich and the poor as opposed to Company vs poor people!

    My argument will still be, if all persons (natural & legal) are to follow the taxation laws, high income earners are more payers of tax than low income earners!
     
  18. O

    Orkesumet Member

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    High income earners pay higher taxes.. in principle yes! but in world of ours where there are no better ways of tracking people, where people can easily defraud the TRA and stow away unpunished...are you staying in a rented house? have you asked yourself how much taxes - withholding taxes not collected from the landlords?...No wonder, the government focus on places where they can easily fetch kodi without sweat and it is through PAYE, the middle class! How many businesses running in the streets are without registration, proper books of records or not filing returns? Is this tax avoidance or evasion? Either way the truth remain, as far as TZ is concerned the wrath of tax regime fall heavily on middle class as opposed to the higher income earners (ie legal entities).
     
  19. Next Level

    Next Level JF-Expert Member

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    I said in my statement ''My argument will still be, if all persons (natural & legal) are to follow the taxation laws, high income earners are more payers of tax than low income earners!'', ur correct on the fact that, the tax base in TZ is not wider enough to catch all fishes (small&bigger), there is a lot of income that goes untaxed because of inefficincies in administration of the available taxation laws!

    All my arguments here, have the assumption that, we have efficient taxation systems and administration, there is no tax evasion, there is a wider tax base etc.

    You are talking about middle class...I am not sure, if the thread starter was referring them as ''poor people'', I thought he was referring to unskilled labourer, wage earners, subsistance farmers who we say they live below a dollar per day.......!

    If you want to compare employees vs business persons (informal ones), I would agreed 100% with you that, we employees suffer a lot cause every thing we get is taxed, while people working in the informal sector, if they pay tax is just a mere estimate, most of them don't pay! For your information, by 2006 the Registered Tax payers in Tanzania (excluding employees) were just 250,000! The rest of businesses you know, just envading tax!

    So the point here is to assume all factors are constant (ceteris paribus), then rich people pay higher tax than poorer ones!

    Cheers
     
  20. Lole Gwakisa

    Lole Gwakisa JF-Expert Member

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    Nafikiri ,nasema nafikiri, mtoa hoja alikuwa akimfananisha mtu masikini kwa maana ya mtu mwenye kipato kidogo kulinganisha na makundi mengine katika jamii.
    Mtu wa aina hii atakuwa mkulima mdogo kabisa(subsistence peasant), na katika kundi hili wanaingia zaidi ya waTanzania 95%
    Suala la kodi kwa kweli ni subjective from ones point of view.Mtu mdogo,masikini analipa kodi zote kutokana na kuwa yeye ni end user.Kwa kulinganisha tu mfanya biashara ana njia nyingi sana za si tu kutolipa kodi shihi lakini hata kuikwepa kabisa, kibiashara.
     
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