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Police stop Muslim woman wearing veil in Italy

Discussion in 'International Forum' started by macho_mdiliko, May 4, 2010.

  1. macho_mdiliko

    macho_mdiliko JF-Expert Member

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    A woman visiting a post office in Novara, north-western Italy, has been stopped by police for wearing an Islamic veil covering her face.
    A police official told the AFP news agency the woman would have to pay a 500-euro (£430) fine.
    It is the first such police action since Novara brought in a by-law in January banning clothing preventing immediate identification in public.
    The city is run by the anti-immigration Northern League.
    The party is a powerful junior coalition partner in Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi's national government.
    'Not tolerated'
    Novara Mayor Massimo Giordano said the by-law was meant to deter women from covering themselves with the veil in public.
    "But unfortunately it is apparently not yet clear to everyone that clothes preventing the wearer's identification can be tolerated at home but not in public places, in schools, on buses or in post offices," he said, according to the Italian state news agency Ansa.
    "There are still some people that refuse to understand that our community in Novara does not accept and does not want people going around wearing the burka."
    He said the by-law was "the only tool at our disposal to stop behaviour that makes the already difficult process of integration even harder".
    The woman, described as a Tunisian national, was apparently visiting the post office with her husband when she was stopped by police.
    When her husband refused to let her be identified by male officers, they called in a female colleague, AFP reported.
    Tighter rules
    Italy has, since 1975, had a national anti-terrorism law which forbids any mask or clothing that makes it impossible to identify the wearer.
    However, the law permits exceptions for "justified cause", which has often been interpreted by courts as including religious reasons for wearing a veil, Ansa reports.
    Several local authorities have introduced tighter regulations, and a Northern League bill currently before parliament would specifically outlaw Islamic face veils.
    Similar moves have been taking place in other Western European countries.
    A ban on wearing masks and veils in public has passed the Belgian lower house and is set to go before the Senate. It would be the first such national law in Europe if approved.
    The French government is pressing for similar legislation, and at the weekend a German member of the European Parliament said a ban should be enforced across the EU.



    From BBC
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8658017.stm
     
  2. macho_mdiliko

    macho_mdiliko JF-Expert Member

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    This is a good and positive move towards women liberation... Zile nyakati za kiza kinene cha wanawake kutembea huku wamejifungia kwenye 'majumba' kaa konokono zinaanza kuyoyoma...
     
  3. Mwana wa Mungu

    Mwana wa Mungu JF-Expert Member

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    na wataliano hawana mchezo, ni wakatili wa kimyakimya. uchumi wao umetawaliwa na mafia group la network ya utawala wa kibabe na criminals lililozaliwa kule Sisilia, this is southern itay. kwa wale waliowahi kuishi southern Italy, au hata popote pale kwenye ile nchi, wanaelewa ninachosema kuhusu hawa mafia. if they decide to treat someone rude, they can really be rude, huwezi amini kule ndo kwenye vatican na pope. hata rais wao anasadikiwa kuwa yuko kwenye network ya mafia. kuna watu wana mahela ya kufa mtu lakini haujui wamepatapateje harakaharaka hivyo, ukijaribu kuweka pua yako kufuatilia, hautajua umeuawa muda gani, wanakufagia kisirisiri fasta. nchi nzima imejaa mafia network, wanamiliki viwanda na majengo mengi sana. so,if you muslims go there mkifikiri ni tz au ubelgiji au UK, you are mistaken, ukifika kule lazima utimize kile wanachotaka. they system is very disorganised, unaweza kupigwa bakora na mtu mtaani ukaenda polisi, baada ya hapo hautajua kilichoendelea, kama wali mu arrest jamaa, alifikia wapi hautajua, na hawatakwambia. watoto wa ma mafia anaweza kufanya fujo kwenye kumbi za starehe, au popote na haumfanyi kitu. kuna ubabe wa ajabu sana katika nchi ile.

    network ya mafia ya italy is the same na hii network ya mafisadi ya hapa bongo. ndo maana hata kina Dr.slaa wanaojitoa muhanga, wanatakiwa kupongezwa sana, ndo network ya ccm hiyo. ukienda kichwakichwa, unaweza kukodiwa majambazi yakufuate home wakati wowote. hii ndo dunia, Tumwombe Mungu tu tutafika.
     
  4. Kiby

    Kiby JF-Expert Member

    #4
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    .
    Duh!! Kama hali ndio hiyo basi Inaelekea ile kuzimu iliyo chini ya ardhi, tunakoambiwa anakaa shetani ni Italy.
     
  5. U

    Ubungoubungo JF-Expert Member

    #5
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    Oh yes, nimekaa italy, siku moja kuna dogo mmoja kule Venice, alikuwa mtoto wa mafia, aliingia kwenye ukumbi wa starehe akaleta fujo, mabansa si yakamtoa nje, kidogo tu alienda home akarudi na bunduki, akaanza kufyatua ovyo mle ukumbini, bwanabwana, palikuwa hapatoshi kabisa. badaeee tulikuwa kusikia kuwa yule dogo alikuwa ni mtoto wa mafia. ukienda Sicily, na southern italy yote, network hii iko sana, Belsconi mwenyewe inasadikika yuko kwenye mtandao, pesa zake nyingi watu hawajui kazitoa wapi. the governmetn of italy imejitahidi sana kuufuta huu mtandao lakini wameshindwa kwasababu ni wasiri mno, huwezi jua ni yupi. majaji wanaogopa wengine kushikilia kesi zao kama wakiwa arrested, the moment they know you, utasikia "this is a good friend", ukiona wanaambizana hivyo, ujue kuwa wanasema "huyu ni wa kuua". kwa wale wanaotaka kuishi italy, the only thing you have to do, fanya chochote, lakini usiweke pua kwenye mambo yasiyokuhusu, hata ukipita njiani ukaona mtu anamuua mwenzie, we nyamaz akimyaaaa, ukiongea tu, network inakuwa juu yako, wanakufuta hivihivi.

    kati ya nchi ambazo hawa promote foreign investment duniani, italy ni ya kwanza, hata selikali huwa inasema kabisa ukienda italy kufanya biashara hauwezi, kwasababu kuna watu wanaofanya biashara kimtandao ajabu, some call Italy "northern Africa", kuna corruption kama kawaida, kuna mambo ya ajabu kama kawaida, tofauti yao kubwa ni maendeleo tu kwamba wameendelea sana kipesa. ila uhuni, ni sawa tu na africa. kumbuka hata makundi ya magenge hapa America, watu wengi wanafikiri ni makundi yanayojumuisha wataliano waliohamia US, they are good at those things, ccm type, fisadi type of thiings you know!. ukiishi italy bila kufuatilia maisha ya mtu, bila kufuata mke wa mtu, bila kufuata girlfriend wa mtu, wewe utaona nchi nzuri na hautakuwa na hatari yoyote. ila ukijifanya mjanja, utapata shida na selikali haitakusaidia.
     
  6. S

    Sideeq JF-Expert Member

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    This is a blessing in its disguise!
    Waislamu wengi sasa wataacha kuhamia katika nchi zisizo za Kiislamu (ambapo watoto wao hupoteza dini mbele za macho yao) na kubakia au kuhamia katika nchi za Kiislamu kama inavyotakiwa Kishariah.
    Hata wale wanaoishi Ulaya na America waliokuwa wakijaribu kuchukuwa watoto wao na kuwapeleka katika nchi za Waislamu ili wasome na kupata maadili mema ya Kiislamu, watoto walikuwa wanashindwa kuishi na kuwasiliana na balozi za nchi walizozaliwa (Ulaya) na kurudishwa ulaya huku wakikosa yale waliyopelekwa kwa ajili yake na wazazi wao.
    Big Up!
     
  7. U

    Ubungoubungo JF-Expert Member

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    yes, ondokeni kabisaa kwenye nchi za watu, mkaishi hukohuko kwenye jehanum ya karabu msikokuwa hata na uhuru wala haki.
     
  8. S

    Sideeq JF-Expert Member

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    Tulia wee! kama katika nchi za Waislamu hakuna uhuru wala haki mbona nyinyi Mayahudi mlipopigwa Spain mkakimbilia katika nchi ya Waislamu Morocco?!
    *Waislamu wengi (wasiokuwepo Europe na America) wamefurahi sasa, mara hijabu France, mara minara Switzerland, sasa niqab Belgium, siwezi kusubiri hiyo siku Waislamu watakapo hama makundi kwa makundi kutoka katika nchi zisizo za waislamu na kwenda katika nchi za waislamu, hii itaharakisha kupatikana kwa dola ambalo linahukumu kwa sheria za Allah totally! sio nusu nusu kama tunavyoona sasa katika baadhi ya nchi.
     
  9. U

    Ubungoubungo JF-Expert Member

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    aliyekwambia mimi ni mayahudi ninani? kwanza nini maana ya mayahudi? ndo ilivyoandikwa kwenye kitabu chenu cha ajabu? look at these people jamani kitabu chao kilivyo cha ajabu, hakina hata upendo, badala ya kuandika wenzao wayahudi, wanawaita mayahudi, ndo maana hata mtume wao aliyekuwa akiota ndoto alishawai kudanganya watu kuwa wayahudi ni manguruwe, and it is the same thing they are teaching their kids in the arab world. hiki ni kitabu kitakatifu kweli hiki?

    actually, kama waislam wangelijua namna wasivyopendwa katika nchi za ulaya, wasingelikanyaga kabisa huko. hivyo kuondoka kwenu ulaya mtafurahisha wengi kwasababu nyie hampendeki, hamuaminiki, watu hawawaamini, kuvaa kininja mnataka watu wasiwe wanawaona usoni mnaficha nini?

    kama wangekuwa wanaishi kwa amani sawa, lakini wanataka kupeleka sheria zao za mwamedi za ajabu hata ulaya, watu wenyewe wakifukuzwa hawana kwa kwenda, nambia wasomali waliojaa kule ulaya wataenda wapi? kuna nchi kibao za kiarabu masikini wataenda wapi, si wanang'ang'ania kukaa huko kwasababu ya maslahi, na bado wanataka kuleta sharia zao zisizo na kichwa wala mkia.
     
  10. paradox

    paradox Senior Member

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    Obviously some of you people have been watching many reruns of 'The Godfather' trilogy, most of the various Mafia organizations (yes there are others apart from Cosa Nostra) have been effectively purged by law enforcement in Italy, the ones that are still functioning are very disorganized with perhaps one or two which have minimal influence in Italy, at least that's how the situation was last i read about it.[​IMG]

    The fining of the Muslim woman by the Italian police is in no way unfair because she did after all go against the laws of the country (when in Rome do has the Romans do), however it is very wrong to assume this is a good thing because it 'liberates' Muslim woman, who ever said that they wanted to be liberated in the first place? Almost all the Muslim women I have ever spoken to on the matter of them having to wear a hi jab or veil or burqa have admitted that they don't want change, the wearing of the veil is a centuries old tradition in the religion of Islam, they understand that and respect that fact, and also like any other human they want to preserve their traditions. I'm not saying that there aren't any Muslim women who wish for change or that there aren't some traditions in Islam which degrade women in general but lets face it people there is no such thing has a perfect religion, whether it be Christianity, Judaism, Wicca or whatever, you name it they are all flawed in one way or the other. Respect other peoples religions because yours isn't so perfect either.
    [​IMG]
     
  11. U

    Ubungoubungo JF-Expert Member

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    You just read about it, some of us live in Italy, do you think your statistic is right?
     
  12. Mkaa Mweupe

    Mkaa Mweupe JF-Expert Member

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    Issue ni kufunika sura, sasa haya ya kubishania dini yanatokea wapi? Acheni hizo, kila mtu na imani yake!
     
  13. S

    Sideeq JF-Expert Member

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    Afadhali utusaidie kuwafahamisha hawa ndugu zetu waislamu kuwa hawapendwi Ulaya lakini wao hawasikii tu! juu ya yote hayo Quran inatueleza:
    Quran 2:120. Never will the Jews nor the Christians be pleased with you till you follow their religion...."
    Nafikiri una matatizo ya kuelewa Ubungoubungo! jaribu kusoma level za Hijrah kutoka kwenye vitabu vya classical Scholars utaona kuwa Muislamu anyepaswa kuishi katika nchi za kikafiri ni yule aliyekwenda kibiashara (hakuna shaka yoyote atarudi), aliyekwenda kusoma, kwa matibabu ......Kwa hiyo hakuna shaka yoyote Waislamu karibu wote walioko Ulaya hawastahili kuwapo Ulaya wanatakiwa waende kuishi ktk nchi za waislamu.
    wakifukuzwa suluhisho litapatikana, umasikini si sababu, tayari hawa watu wanaishi ktk hali duni Ulaya; box, kulea mama wazee, fagio, kuendesha taxi, kuuza Pizza na manyanyaso kila siku ndo utajiri na mslahi ya kuyafuata hayo?!
    Wacha warudi tu tuestablish Khalifate haraka iwezekanavyo.
     
  14. Mwana wa Mungu

    Mwana wa Mungu JF-Expert Member

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    waislam hawatakiwi kuishi katika nchi za kikafiri hivyo wanatakiwa warudi kwenye nchi zao za kiislam...na wewe uliye hapa tz ambako kila kona unakuta kanisa la maelfu ya watu wakati misikiti ina watu kama mia tu, utaenda wapi? manake hapa tz basi si kwako, mwende mkajazane saudia!, hivyo ndivyo kitabu chako kinavofundisha? just imagine, ukienda maeneo mengine mikoani, hata usiseme wewe mwislam, watakukimbia na kukuogopa wanaona kama mfuga majini mchawi au msoma albadili, hakuna hata msikiti mmoja. pamoja na waislam kutamba kwamba wao ndo wengi tz, hakika yake wakristo wanaweza kufika asilimia sitini, ukanda wa pwani ambako waislam wapo wengi makanisa yamejaaa, angalia hapa dsm, hivi utasemaje kuhusu hili. kama ndo hivyo, nchi hii ya tz ni ya kikafiri, hivyo ninyi mlikuja (sijui toka wapi kulingana na maelezo yako) kwaajili ya biashara au kusoma tu na baada ya hapo mtaenda kwao.

    ni nchi gani unataka waislam walioko ulaya warudi ambako si kwa makafiri kulingana na kitabu chenu cha ajabu. hapa africa kusini mwa janga la sahara nchi ambazo ni za kiislam ni chache, something kama sudani peke yake, sehemu zingine zote wakristo ni majority, waislam walizaliwa humo, sasa unataka warudi wapi ambako kutakuwa si nchi ya makafiri?, mnasumbua dunia kila mtu hawataki na ninyi mnasema ndo mwamedi alivyosema kwenye kitabu chenu, amewadanganya sana na yeye anaota moto kuwasubiria muje muungue wote kule jehanum and anatamani kama angepata nafasi hata moja tu kurudi aje awaambie aliwadanganya. poleni sana.
     
  15. paradox

    paradox Senior Member

    #15
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    Actually I believe what I read to be accurate, among the things I read was a blog by a man who spent time 'IN' Italy, and really now every country in the world has it's share of crime syndicates, you guys are making Italy sound like a hoodlum and crime ridden cesspit which is so dangerous you would have to be mad to visit it.[​IMG]
     
  16. Mzizi wa Mbuyu

    Mzizi wa Mbuyu JF-Expert Member

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    Jamani endeleeni kumwaga elimu, kuna kitu najifunza hapa.....
     
  17. Mwana wa Mungu

    Mwana wa Mungu JF-Expert Member

    #17
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    have you been in Palermo sir? au Sicily? to tell you, even the italian government has failed to deal with this issue, the mafia posses projects worth billion of euros...and there are many people in government who are connected to this network. you should understand that, this network started hundred of years and at the begining it wasn't as criminal as it is these days. the only thing the government has done as a solution is to confisicate some of the buildings or accounts etc of the suspects and they use that money to give scholarships to students, give damage to families which have been affected by the mafia, send some aids to africa and some buildings are made home to the homeless. every year not less than 250 million euros is confiscated from the mafia network. the judges are even afraid to deal with the case of the suspects and to tell you, italian courts ni ngumu kuingia kama ilivyo ubalozi wa marekani, ukapekuliwa hadi mwisho when you are getting into the court's building. we are not making italy a criminal country, even when you ask any italian will explain this well to you. it is the real situation. we are not anti-Roman here, something which i guess is developing in your head. some of us have lived there for years, so we know what we are talking about.

    one more thing, nimesoma italy na ni mtu niyebobea sana kwenye mambo ya terrorism, maritime piracy na mambo yanayofanana na hayo. nimesoma University of Rome, we were taught by italian professors, na hata mwaka huu mwanzoni nilitembelea italy for the same kind of issues. usifikiri mimi ni mchungaji kwasababu nimejiandika mwana wa mungu, nimeokoka tu nampenda Yesu...sitaji kujiezua zaidi hapa, wengine msije mkanihisi bure. ukitaka nitaweza kukutumia articles nyingi zilizoandikwa hivi karibuni kuhusu hii issue ili uelewe.
     
  18. S

    Sideeq JF-Expert Member

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    Punguza jazba! huijuwi concept ya hijrah, ni bora ungeuliza kuliko kujiruhu kuonekana mjinga hapa. Kuhusu swali lako;
    Hijrah ina maanisha kuhamia kwenye eneo la Waislamu, mfano mtu youko katika eneo fulani Tanzania na hawezi ku practise deen yake, hivyo anatakiwa ahamie ktk eneo la waislamu.
    Mfano, mtu aliyeko Mwenge na hawezi kupractise dini yake, hivyo basi anatakiwa ahamie Kariakoo sehemu ambayo kuna Waislamu wengi na anaweza ku practise dini yake.
    Na ninavyofahamu mimi Tanzania sehemu ambazo mtu anaweza kupractise dini yake waziwazi ni nyingi tu, kwa sababu Hijrah wakati mwingine kutokan na mazingira yenyewe Muislamu anaweza kuhamia kutoka kwenye nchi moja ya kufru kwenda kwenye nchi nyingine ya kufru ambayo shari yake ni nafuu, mpaka hali itakapo kuwa nzuri, i,e kuwa na dola letu la Kiislamu chini ya Khalifah;
    kama Hijrah ya kwanza ktk Uislamu, maswahaba walihama Makkah iliyokuwa chini ya makafiri wakati huo kwenda (Abbsynia) Ethiopia nchi nyingine ya kikafiri, hali ilipokuwa nzuri na Waislamu kupata State (madinnah) walihama na kwenda Madinnah kwenye Islamic state.
    Ni kutokana na watu kama wewe ndio hawa watu wamekuwa na mawazo potofu juu ya Waislamu:
    Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a Gentile.Baba Kamma 113a
    Rudia jawabu langu hapo juu.
    Wanachotakiwa sasa sio kuhama bali ni kuanzisha Islamic state! hivyo waislamu wenzao wengine wanaoteseka sehemu nyingine duniani waweze kuhamia huko.
    MHH!!Sijuwi ni nchi gani Mayahudi wanatakiwa katika dunia hii!
    Kwanza mnaambiwa kuwa hakuna Rabbi atakayekwenda motoni:
    Hagigah 27a. States that no rabbi can ever go to hell.
    Halafu unaambiwa kuwa malaya aliyeingiliwa kwa nyuma na Rabbi Eliazer, alisema; kama huu ushuzi wangu hautarudi kwenye anus yangu; rabbi eliazer hataingia peponi!
    Abodah Zarah 17a. States that there is not a ***** in the world that the Talmudic sage Rabbi Eleazar has not had sex with.On one of his whorehouse romps, Rabbi Eleazar leanred that there was one particular prostitute residing in a whorehouse near the sea, who would receive a bag of money for her services. He took a bag of money and went to her, crossing seven rivers to do so. During their intercourse the prostitute farted. After this the ***** told Rabbi Eleazar: "Just as this gas will never return to my anus, Rabbi Eleazar will never get to heaven."
    Huoni kuwa umepigwa changa la macho hapo?!!
    Haya jiangalie mwenyewe jinsi Marabbi wanavyokudanganya hapa kuhusu "Holocaust" kufuatana na Talmud:
    Gittin 57b. Claims that four billion Jews were killed by the Romans in the city of Bethar. Gittin 58a claims that 16 million Jewish children were wrapped in scrolls and burned alive by the Romans. (Ancient demography indicates that there were not 16 million Jews in the entire world at that time, much less 16 million Jewish children or four billion Jews).
    Welcome to the world of confusion Jews!
     
  19. U

    Ubungoubungo JF-Expert Member

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    hivi hawa mayahudi unaoongelea wana uhusiano gani na mimi mkristo? mkiulizwa swali mnakimbilia kwa wayahudi wayahudi, ongelea sisi wakristo. wayahudi wala si wakristo pamoja na kwamba ni ndugu zetu na tunawapenda na kuwasapoti, so please, msiwe mnakwepa swali na kukimbilia kuwatukana wayahudi kwasababu ya kunyimwa haki ya urithi na kuonekana nyie ni watoto wa mama wa kambo haousegirl. OK
     
  20. S

    Sideeq JF-Expert Member

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    Hili ni tatizo lenu jingine! mnadanganywa sana na Ma Rabbi.
    Katika watoto 12 wa Jacob ambao ni Watoto wa Israel mmoja wao ni Nahptali mama yake alikuwa ni Bilha mtumwa wa Rachel! Je utamwita Myahudi aliyetokea ktk kizazi cha Nahptali kuwa ni mtoto wa kambo house girl??!
    Na utasema nini kuhusu watoto wengine wa Jacob? Gad na Asher mama yao ni Zilpah na alikuwa ni mtumwa wa Leah! sasa Mayahudi waliotokea ktk kizazi cha Gad na Asher ni watoto wa kambo Mahouse girls?!!!
    Wakati umefika sasa wa kuwaambia hawa ma Rabbi "enough is enough, we are grown people now".
    Think about it.
     
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