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Class Struggle in Tanzania

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Augustine Moshi, Apr 21, 2009.

  1. Augustine Moshi

    Augustine Moshi JF-Expert Member

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    Do we still have class struggle in Tanzania? Did we ever have class struggle in Tanzania, or was it just a case of intellectual theorizing?

    I recall our beloved Professor Isa Shivji writing a book on Class Struggle in Tanzania. He also wrote a book, or at least an essay, on “The Class Struggle Continues”. I am supposed to have read both, but that was a very long time ago. I do not remember the contents.

    What were the classes? I recall that the good Professor identified one of them as the Dukawalas. These were the small shop owners (there were no large shops in the country). According to Shivji, the Dukawalas constituted a class, and, what is more, the rest of us were struggling against them. The political and technocratic elite were another class, and these were supposed to be engaged in a fierce struggle against you and me.

    The peasantry, which really was almost everybody, was the main class. But did they know that they were a class, and that they were engaged in a struggle with other classes? These other classes were of course infinitely small in comparison, and were in large measure elected into their positions by their opponents (the peasants).

    Is there a class struggle in Tanzania? Has there ever been a class struggle in Tanzania (other than in the minds of intellectuals)?

    I suppose that nobody talks about class struggle in Tanzania anymore. Not even Professor Shivji. Was it all for nothing? We do have classes in Tanzania, but are they supposed to be engaged in a struggle?
     
  2. M

    Mkandara Verified User

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    It all depends what kind U looking at!
     
  3. Mzeeba

    Mzeeba Senior Member

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    Acha uvivu, soma tena vitabu unavyosema umesahau vilikuwa vinazungumzia nini, ndio uliulize tena swali lako. Na amini asilimia 100 utapata majibu yako katika kazi za Profesa Shivji. Nenda hapa "The Struggle for Democracy by Issa Shivji" kwa moja ya kazi ulizotaja hapo juu
     
  4. P

    Pascal Mayalla JF-Expert Member

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    We Agustino Moshi, rudi darasani, msome Shivji huku umetulia, jamaa ni kama nabii fulani hivi, huu mgogoro wa mafuta na Zanzibar, aliutaja mwaka 1994 kwenye andiko lake la 'The Legal Foundation of Union Btn Tanganyika and Zanzibar'.

    Unauliza kama kuna Class Strugle leo?. Hivi hujaona kuibuka kwa kasi kwa kundi la 'Petty Bourjuaguse'. Haushuhudii watu wanaoishi maisha ya ki-epa epa wakivunja sheria ni VIP cell ikifuatiwa na dhamana, huku mwizi wa kuku akipigwa hadi kufa.

    Kwa taarifa yako, the gap between 'the have' and 'the have not' is widening in a striking speed, huku mtoto wa mmoja akisoma English medium academic school ya mamilioni, mtoto wa mkulima akikosa mkopo aweze kuingia chuo.

    Kama una uwezo, nunua land ya mwanao na mwana wa mwanao sasa vinginevyo mwanao na mwana wa mwanao, ataishia kuwa mpangaji maisha yake yote, kwani mwenye nacho, ataongezewa na asiye nacho, atanyang'anywa hata kidogo alicho nacho.

    Toka nje usiku, zamani biashara ya usiku ilianzia club maarufu ya Margott, ikaja night clubs na Kinondoni Makaburini, leo nenda Magomeni kwa Macheni, Buguruni kwa Mnyamani, Sinza Kona Bar ushuhudie jinsi wajasiliamali wa miili yao walivyo bize, tena sio mpaka usiku, ni asubuhi, mchana, jioni na usiku ndio usiseme.

    Wakati mshahara wa kima cha chini ni 150,000/= kuna watu wanalipwa dola 10,000 kwa mwezi, Tanzania hihi hii!.

    Je bado unauliza kama Class struggle zipo?.

    'maisha ni struggle for exsistance, survival for the fittest'.
     
  5. Companero

    Companero Platinum Member

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    You suppose? Be factual! Professor Shivji is still talking about class struggle. He cannot stop talking about it. Why? Because to him, "Class struggle is the locomotive of history". Read his new book 'Where is Uhuru? Reflections on the Struggle for Democracy in Africa' that was launched last week and also check out his book 'Let the People Speak: Tanzania Down the Road to Neo-Liberalism.' If reading books is too hard for you then just read these online articles which Professor Shivji has written in Pambazuka News - you can directly access them at Pambazuka News


    The Mo Ibrahim Prize: Robbing Peter to pay Paul

    One year on in Tanzania: A false start

    Lawyers in Neoliberalism

    Is the agrarian revolution round the corner?

    Primitive accumulation of wealth means reaping without sowing

    The Changing Development Discourse in Africa

    Privatisation or piratisation of our forests?

    Making poverty history or understanding the history of poverty

    The beastly face of capitalism

    The “Second Great Boer Trek”

    Reflections: An interview with Issa G Shivji
     
  6. Augustine Moshi

    Augustine Moshi JF-Expert Member

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    Emeritus Professor Shivji is certainly a first rate political scientist and lawyer. But there really was never a class struggle in Tanzania. Everybody was ndugu, in theory, and even in practice.

    I do not fault Professor Shivji. It was fashionable to speak a Marxist Leninist language in those days, and he simply moved with the crowd.

    The Marxist world outlook has been proven to be a badly flawed analysis. I am truly shocked to hear that Shivji is still immersed in it. It can make him look like something from the past!

    I promise to find time to read some of the numerous new works of the Professor, one of these days
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2009
  7. Companero

    Companero Platinum Member

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    You and Paul Rupia were ndugu, in theory, and even in practice?

    He simply moved with the crowd, or the crowd moved with him?

    Who has proved the Marxist outlook to be a badly flawed analysis, you?

    It can make him look like something from the past, the credit crunch past?


    When, and if, you find time also read: UDADISI: Rethinking in Action: 'Marxism for Our Times' as a Foil
     
  8. S

    SpinDoctor Member

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    You remind me of a professor at UDSM who used to tell his students that Marxist ideas are no longer applied by academicians in the Western World! I later found out he was simply spinning! Marxist perspectives are still used in "Nchi za Magharibi".
     
  9. Nduka

    Nduka JF-Expert Member

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    Maghimbi?
     
  10. B

    Bulesi JF-Expert Member

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    Augustine Moshi, ili ujue kama kuna class struggle hapa Tanzania kwanza kabisa lazima ujue maana ya CLASS; usipojua maana yake huwezi kujua kama kuna mapambano ya matabaka ya watu katika jamii!! Neda kasome mabuku usiwe mvivu!!
     
  11. Bluray

    Bluray JF-Expert Member

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    You can't have a class struggle if you hardly have any classes to speak of.

    We are just establishing classes, if there is any class struggle, it must be the infant that came before it's father.
     
  12. Kitila Mkumbo

    Kitila Mkumbo Verified User

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    They may not be used, but they are still extensively analysed and form an important part of academic discourse. But it is true no western country would even dream implementing Marxist ideas; they are simply an unimplementable!
     
  13. Bluray

    Bluray JF-Expert Member

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    Actually academia is about the only place in the West where Marxism seems to not only exist, but even flourish. But this is largely due to the cool factor in anti-establismentism than anything real.

    I bet if the western governments were Marxist, most of the academics would be touting Ludwig Von Mises, just to spite those elected goons, can you imagine Noam Chomsy touting Von Mises in "Hegemony or Survival"?
     
  14. Augustine Moshi

    Augustine Moshi JF-Expert Member

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    Bulesi is right. We need to be clear about our terms first. Does Professor Shivji define "class", "struggle" or even "class struggle"? He probably used these words as primitive terms, and I have no problem with that.

    During the time period in question, there was a tiny "rich class" in Tanzania. It consisted of one minister and a couple of business men (no women were in that rarefied group). There was a slightly larger, but still tiny, middle class. Shivji may or may not have belonged to this group. Almost everybody belonged to the remaining class, which was the workers (a couple of a thousand souls there) and the peasants (which was about the whole country, really).

    There was, and still is, struggle, but it was not between classes, and was therefore not class struggle.

    As some of you have cared to point out, we have struggles in Tanzania and we have classes. What we do not have is class struggle.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2009
  15. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

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    Ni lini jamii ya watu wowote duniani haijawa na class struggle? Isn't the very idea of the rulers and the ruled embed in it the foundations of a class society? Is there any possibility of creating a classless society?
     
  16. C

    CottonEyeJoe JF-Expert Member

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    Only one true class struggle exists today and thats between "Wananchi" and "Wenye nchi".......
     
  17. Augustine Moshi

    Augustine Moshi JF-Expert Member

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    Kuna matabaka Tanzania, na kuna mapambano na maisha. Hakuna mapambano ya kitabaka.
     
  18. Field Marshall ES

    Field Marshall ES JF-Expert Member

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    - Tuna mfano wa matabaka bado hatujawa na tabakas za kweli, isipokuwa one thing for sure tuna the ruling class, kwenye ku-create hili tumefanikiwa sana.

    FMES!
     
  19. Companero

    Companero Platinum Member

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    Kwa mujibu wa Shivji Tanzania sasa kuna matabaka 3:

    1. Walalaheri
    2. Walalahai
    3. Walalahoi

    Mapambano ya Matabaka yapo, waulize wamachinga!
     
  20. MotoYaMbongo

    MotoYaMbongo JF-Expert Member

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    Matabaka yapo katika tanzania, kusema hayapo ni kujifariji. Hilo liko wazi. 1. Watawala 2. Watawaliwa na ktk watawaliwa kuna wenye heri na wenye njaa.
     
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