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Babu wa Loliondo and Similar Doctors of Faith

Discussion in 'JF Doctor' started by Edwin Mtei, Apr 3, 2011.

  1. E

    Edwin Mtei JF Gold Member

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    Babu wa Loliondo and similar doctors of faith, who have cropped up recently in several parts of Tanzania, in my view, are a manifestation of the breakdown of effective proper medical services.

    In an enviroment of widespread incurable diseases, like HIV Aids, which in many cases are caused by ignorance and poverty, we are bound to have desperate patients who are prepared to believe in any possible alternative cure.

    The result of such a situation is the emergence of doctors of faith, some genuine and some only people desirous of exploiting difficulties in society.


    This is my submission.
     
  2. Plato

    Plato JF-Expert Member

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    Honor.this is a very balanced statement,full of prudence.leaving apart all the medical,biblical and theological considerations,mzee mtei points to a basic truth.he does not say loliondo is genuine.but that some are and some are not.loliondo could be one tha is not genuine.
     
  3. Ms Judith

    Ms Judith JF-Expert Member

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    It's just a political view and most of good political views take neutral sides like this one.

    Since its inauguration, we have seen a handful of highly standing politicians and other economically well off citizens queuing for the kikombe in a broad day light and hence proved that, neither poverty nor ineffective proper medical services could be cited as a fair reason for the cropping up of the vikombes.

    We, who call for a critical examination of this cosmic instrument from a biblical perspective, are much more concerned with the powers and mysteries behind it. Frankly speaking, if babu didn't claim any Christological connection with his medicines, i wouldn't have uttered any word with a doubt on his business. Rather, i would had taken him as serious as any other traditional medical practitioners as this is his just and fair status.

    Worse enough, this is cited by serious minded people as an example of Tanzanians' positive and friendly attitudes towards superstition.

    Glory be to God
     
  4. Gurta

    Gurta JF-Expert Member

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    Desperation. Period. It's not about any ineffectiveness of anything, rather than that of a desperate person seeking desperate measures. People who go to Babu (and the others) are not suffering from malaria or flu, they are sick from what is seemingly 'incurable'

    A diabetic who has been injecting him/herself for 15-20 years would do anything to (including taking these concoctions) to get rid of the pricking daily!

    Neutrality in these matters does not suffice.
     
  5. Selous

    Selous JF-Expert Member

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    I am bogged.
     
  6. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

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    Faith healers do not exist exclusively in places where there is a breakdown in "effective proper medical services.". It is a known fact that even in places with advanced health care facilities and modern medical systems there are still a myriad of faith healers under different guises. From China to Japan, from England to US healing continues to come through "Western medicine" or as others would call it "modern medicine".

    However, faith healing continues to play a role in healing; in churches and places of worship and even in some hospitals. There is a huge body of research out there which deals with the question of the relation between faith and healing and medicine. But, not all faith healing contains herbal medicine and not all herbal medicine is faith healing.

    While there is a vast array of opposing opinions on the relationship between faith and healing there is on the other hand enough agreement on the powers of herbal medicine. Some of these herbal medicine have in fact contributed a lot in development of some of the medicine we now use.

    It is for this reason, many medical schools in the US for example have created academic department which deals with what they refer as "Alternative Medicine". For this reason, I think it would be very harsh to dismiss summarily any claim that has to do with alternative medicine. We know for sure that while it is almost impossible to bring faith healing to the level of acceptance as that enjoyed by conventional medicine the herbal medicines however can raise to that level once empirical study show that they are effective.

    So, as long as people have faith and as long as they find themselves in some form of suffering they will seek healing from any source possible. This is true Samunge as it is true in Los Angeles or Berling and Shanghai. We are human beings after all and we would like to extend our living by any means possible.
     
  7. The Prophet

    The Prophet JF-Expert Member

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    Only because it has been done in America??

    Anyway, as for my opinion, Babu's cure is a big lie, unless proved otherwise by medical professionals.
     
  8. BAK

    BAK JF-Expert Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  9. Nyamgluu

    Nyamgluu JF-Expert Member

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    Mwanakijiji your comment has left me commentless.
    Mtei's comment is not 'neutral' as others have observed but politically charged. I will let him read Mwanakijijis post which I believe is sufficient.
     
  10. Nyamgluu

    Nyamgluu JF-Expert Member

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    And where are these medical professionals whose proof you so highly regard?
    Not in America I hope!
     
  11. s

    seniorita JF-Expert Member

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    The Samunge experience demonstrates that people of all walks of life, of all religion, regardless of gender flock to seek medical help. So the question of destitution from poor medical facilities cannot explain why people who can afford treatment even abroad are also some of babu's patients. I guess it is more a faith issue healing is often connected to powers from above
     
  12. Kilasara

    Kilasara JF-Expert Member

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    I am glad Mzee Mtei's submission has made JF members like Mzee Mwanakijiji respond. I have discussed with him and he said he did not imply that faith healers do not function in some cases.

    What he was trying to explain is that the phenomenon of huge multitudes of Tanzanians converging on Samunge demonstrates an absence of proper medical services in many areas of Tanzania, which cannot be disputed.

    By implication, the authorities have a responsibility to improve such services, rather than themselves only joining the multitides to Samunge and giving the impression that Babu has solved the problem confronting them as a government.
     
  13. Plato

    Plato JF-Expert Member

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    True as it may be,(the present submision) and the ensuing discussion has in a way taken us to almost an apologetic tone.reading mwanakijiji in this respondeo one have an impresion that he affirms with the mremas that loliondo actualy is healing.we should not in my view stop questioning whether what babu is doing has divine dispensation.what does he mean to say he is a prophet? How authentic when he clain to talk to God even now?
    He does not put any christological dimension in his story.is theologicaly sound? What am trying to argue,is asking the first question,did he realy speak to God,dream or have a genuine divine vision or we are dealing with some halusination and cunning fabrications.i may expect now a theological reflections.and this is also my submision
     
  14. Nyamgluu

    Nyamgluu JF-Expert Member

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    How do we go about to prove that he has spoken to God. And how do we then prove that the God he speaks to is the 'right' God and not hallucinations. In my view religion is hallucination (to put it bluntly). I personally believe that if the kikombe has no harm then let those who believe, believe. What right do we have to judge others on matters of faith?
     
  15. Mohammed Shossi

    Mohammed Shossi Verified User

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    The long believed spiritual healing powers of Babu Loliondo miracle healing herbs have been confirmed by available medical literature that show ability to cure the ailments as demanded. The Chinese hospitals have stocks and no need to go to Samunge

    Source: The African 04/04/11

    My take.

    I thing Loliondo is NOT placebo healing and its more than that...............
     
  16. Plato

    Plato JF-Expert Member

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    Jesus christ is the fullness of revelatio, a being of faith but also historical fact.he is the logos (this is greek as meaning power of reason) so it is witchcraft to say faith is not about facts.and xstianity can not be such one religion.yes there are objective ways to check if babus claims are authentic,very unfortunately he appear to lean into such that is not.
     
  17. Futota

    Futota JF-Expert Member

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    Hey guys, "placebo effect" is well documented in modern medicine, it is never a cure of a disease, but some patients may report instant relief of symptoms and signs of a particular disease, and this is purely psychological/emotional.
    I believe, some of the people who drink the stuff from the vikombes-Babu's etc, and report on feeling cured.... that's the PLACEBO working.
    Ignorance is key here, the TZ population is not well informed on this subject, henceforth multitudes will keep on visiting babu and the likes LOL
     
  18. kipindupindu

    kipindupindu JF-Expert Member

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    Watanzania tu wavivu wa kufikiri,tunapenda njia za mkato na mafanikio yasiojulikana chanzo chake,pia uwezo wetu wa kufikiri unapokoma mara nyingi tunataja supernatural powers kama kisingizio badala ya kuumiza vichwa ili kupata majibu sahihi.
    Mtoto mwenye homa kali hupata 'convulsions' kwa mzaramo hili ni jambo la ajabu mno na maelezo atakayoyatoa ni kwamba kuna NDEGE MKUBWA huja kumuuma mtoto kwenye paji la uso la kumsababishia convulsions(degedege).mtu mwenye kichaa(schizophrenia) huchukuliwa kama mtu mwenye MAPEPO,hata ajali zilizokuwa zinatokea daraja la wami au kule sekenke inasemekana kuna JINI mnywa damu za watu.mtu anapokufa tunasema kazi yake MOLA haina makosa na mwisho kabisa utamsikia waziri au hata rais akitamka MUNGU akitujaalia mvua zitanyesha na tutapata mavuno mengi.
    Tiba mbadala ni jambo la kawaida na muhimu sana katika jamii iwe USA,SOMALIA AU TANZANIA.lakini kuna misingi inayosimamia utoaji wa Tiba mbadala misingi hii isipofuatwa tutajikuta wanaibuka mababu kila kata.TFDA wanalijua hili,MUHAS wanacho kitengo cha tradition/alternative medicine,wizara ya afya wanalitambua suala hili vizuri,haieleweki ni kwa nini babu wa loliondo hajapitia viwango hivi?!

    Ni ngumu kufikia hicho kinachoitwa effective medical care lakini hii haimaanishi kuwa tuanze kupagawa na kuamini tiba feki kama za babu,kakobe na ndodi.je hizi ndio effective?the answer is NO!
     
  19. NewDawnTz

    NewDawnTz JF-Expert Member

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    Be it Placebo effect or whatever the case, the truth and the very truth about the whole Babu thing clearly display a dysfunctional health system resulting to many desperate Tanzania who can do whatever to be sure of their well being while their "leaders" are in deep "catnap"......

    It is also not that Tanzanian are just fools or mad or what is said to be "Wamepigwa nusu kaputi za kichawi" but they are frantic for the lack of reliable health system.....And we all know that if you are desperate your nervous system function to almost none....

    This is not only assented on Babu's and the alike cases, but open your eyes and see what is happening in the new world of mushrooming churches calling themselves "Healing Ministries" the way they amass multiple of followers not on the ground of their obeisance to God almighty but just in search of "miraculous healing" which to SOME and for some reasons i believe they are just like Babu,.......... taking advantage of Tanzanian who are desperate for healing.
     
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