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At the end of the day.......................

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Lugha' started by fikirini, Jul 7, 2011.

  1. fikirini

    fikirini Senior Member

    #1
    Jul 7, 2011
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    Jamani leo naomba tushirikane katika hili, kwenye lugha ya kiingereza kuna sentensi 'at the end of the day' na pia kwenye kiswahili kuna sentensi 'mwisho wa siku'. Naomba kujua hii sentensi ni tafsiri ya ile ya kiingereza? ni kweli ni sahihi kusema mwisho wa siku? na kama sio sahihi nini mbadala wake?
     
  2. S

    Senior Bachelor Member

    #2
    Jul 8, 2011
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    Mwisho wa siki NI MAKOSA MAKUBWA: Ni tafsiri sisisi inayofanywa na watu wanaodhani lugha 2 zinaweza kuendana hivyo.
    Tafsiri yake sahihi ni MWISHOWE; AU HATIMAYE.
     
  3. The Boss

    The Boss JF-Expert Member

    #3
    Jul 8, 2011
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    waswahili hatuna mwisho wa siku

    neno sahihi ni hatimaye
    au mwishowe

    alieupa huu msemo umaarufu ni reginald mengi....
    ni msemo wa makosa
     
  4. Mentor

    Mentor JF-Expert Member

    #4
    Jul 9, 2011
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    duh...umenipeleka mbali sana mkubwa...!
    mwisho wa siku, naishia kutingisha kichwa na kutamani kama ningeweza kurudisha nyuma mikono ya wakati (tr: turn back the hands of time)!!
     
  5. ndetichia

    ndetichia JF-Expert Member

    #5
    Jul 9, 2011
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    napita tu sababu mi ni mswahili halisi..
     
  6. S

    Senior Bachelor Member

    #6
    Jul 10, 2011
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    Ndugu Ndetichia,
    Nashukuru kama nimekupeleka/kukumbusha mbali. Lakini mbona tena wewe umefanya tafsiri sisisi ya nahau ya kiiingereza? Umetafsiri "turn back the hands of time" kuwa eti "kurudisha nyuma mikono ya wakati". Kwa kweli hapa umerudia matapishi yale yale ya "at the end of the day-mwisho wa siku". Napenda kuamini kuwa ulifanya hivi kwa makusudi!

    Nahau ya kiingereza "turn back the hands of time" ina maaana ya "go back to the past". Kwa hiyo, katika kiswahili tafsiri sahihi ingekuwa "kurudi nyuma (miaka kadhaa)" au "kurudisha wakati nyuma". Mf.Jay Dee anapoimba "natamani kuwa kama zamani, natamani kuwa kama mtoto" anatamani kurudisha wakati nyuma.

    Hitimisho na mifano (hiyo hiyo katika kiingereza na kiswahili).
    An Idiom (nahau) ais a language expression which has a fixed meaning. One cannot get its meaning by relying on the dictionary/denonative meaning of individual words forming the idiom. E.g. A wolf in sheep's clothing-meanning: hypocrite, He is a chip off the old block-meaning: he resembles his parent etc.
    Nahau ni kifungu cha maneno chenye maana maalumu ambayon kwa kawaida ni tofauti na maana za maneno yanayoiunda nahaau husika. Kwa mfano: "mbwa mwitu katika ngozi ya kondoo"- maana: mnafiki, "amemlanda babaye, maana: amefanana na babaye. n.k.

    Kwa kuwa jina lako ni "Ndetichia" naamini utaelewa sentensi ifuatayo ambayo ni nahau ya lugha ya kabila lako:
    "Inje lya kurun"-tafsiri sisisi-mende wa sikioni: maana-a disturbing character/person kwa kiingereza.

    Tuendelee kujifunza.
     
  7. Mentor

    Mentor JF-Expert Member

    #7
    Jul 11, 2011
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    Senior Bachelor,
    ingawa ujumbe wako umeuelekeza kwa Ndetichia, nina uhakika ulikuwa ukilenga kunijibu mimi.
    Nashukuru kwa maelezo yako..ni kweli nimetumia tafsiri hiyo makusudi.
    Ila nina swali dogo tu: Je, ni wakati gani unaofaa/usiofaa kufanya direct-translation? maneno mengine unaweza usijue kwamba yana hidden truth kama hilo nililotumia hapo juu, "Turn back the hands of time". Kwangu ni neno very straight na ndo maana nikadhani linafaa kutafsiriwa directly as opposed to 'a chip off the old block'.

    **Inje lya kurun..nimeielewa pia kwani ni lugha yangu!lol
     
  8. S

    Senior Bachelor Member

    #8
    Jul 11, 2011
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    Ndugu Mentor,
    Nashukuru kwa kuni"tonya" kuwa nilimjibu Ndetichia wakati nilidahmiria wewe! Naye pia namuomba radhi kama nitakuwa nimemkwaza.

    Tafsiri sisisi unaweza kuifanya pale ambapo italeta maana inayoeleweka. Kwa mfano nikisema "Mentor went to school"-hapo ni kuwa "Mentor alienda shule". Hakuna lugha ya picha hapo. Ni lugha ya moja kwamoja. Huwezi kuifanya kwa lugha ya picha (figurative language). Mfano nahau, methali, misemo, n.k.
    Hebu fikiri nikienda mahali nikamwambia mtu "natamani kurudisha nyuma mikono ya wakati". Kama huyo mtu haujui huo wimbo wenye maneno hayo, au hajawahi kuusikia huo msemo wa kiingereza hawezi kukuelewa. Kwanza, wakati (time) hauna "hands". yenye "hands" ni saa (clock). Na hands of a clock tunaiita "mishale" ya saa na wala sio "mikono" ya saa. Kwa hiyo "hands of time" inaonesha wazi kuwa ni nahau. Sasa ndugu Mentor nahau za lugha 2 tofauti haziwezi kufanana sawasawa kama hivyo (labda mara chache sana). Yaani zifanane hadi mpangilio wa maneno! La hasha. Heri hata ungesema "kugeuza/kurusidha nyuma mishale ya saa". Kidogo ingevumilika japo sio sana.

    Kwa hiyo: Tafsiri sisisi haifai kwa nahau hata kidogo. Achilia mbali kutoka lugha moja kwenda lugha nyingine. Hata kwa lugha hiyohiyo tu kama nilivyosema huwezi kupata maana kwa kutumia maana za neno moja mojaa. Ukienda katika kamusi ukatafuta maana ya kila neno katika nahau hiyo halafu ukayaunganisha utaishia na maana ya ajabu (absurdity).
    Mfano mdogo: Fikiria mgeni anayejifunza kiswahili akutane na sentensi zifuatazo zikiwa zimetumiwa kisanii (lugha ya picha) halafu atake kujua maana yazo kwa kwenda kwenye kamusi na kutafuta maana ya maneno yake halafu akaunganisha. Lol! ataishia na vitu vya ajabu sana.

    1) Kumwaga unga
    2) Kwenda mwezini
    3) Kuvunja ungo
    4) Kujikaza kisabuni
    5) Kula kobisi (naamini sasa ni nahau rasmi)
    6) Kuachwa solemba (naamini pia ni nahau sasa)
    7) kujivua gamba (nayo pia ni nahau mpya

    Tafakari.
     
  9. Mentor

    Mentor JF-Expert Member

    #9
    Jul 11, 2011
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    Duh, seriously (kusema la ukweli ??), kabla ya hili somo sikuwa najua tofauti hizo...shukrani sana mkuu!
    Mimi ilikuwa ni kutafsiri tu kwa kwenda mbele especially (hasa/haswa/hasahasa ??) kutoka kiingereza kwenda kiswahili.
    Nimeshukuru sana...haika sana mleu!
     
  10. S

    Senior Bachelor Member

    #10
    Jul 11, 2011
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    Hahaha.
    "Especially" = hususan.
    Haikambe kanyi
     
  11. r

    rununu Member

    #11
    Jul 12, 2011
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    aghalabu watu hufanya tafsiri sisisi ambazo zimekuwa zikipotosha matumizi sahihi ya lugha huku wamahili wakikaa kimya, tafadhali ndugu zangu ukiona makosa yoyote tafadhali yaweke wazi na kutoa usahihi wake, hongera kwa uchunguzi wako.
     
  12. N

    Namour Member

    #12
    Jul 12, 2011
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    dah! Umenkumbusha prof wangu Senkoro analipinga sana hili anakwambia mwisho wa siku ni 'usiku' jaribu kutumia neno usiku katika maelezo kama utaeleweka.
     
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