We want graduate MPs, say members of public

shadow recruit

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Dec 28, 2011
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Tanzanians want the new constitution to demonstrate that members of parliament have a first degree as minimum qualification to join the House, saying this will allow them to effectively carry out their duties.
Commenting on the requirement, one Godfrey Karokora noted that some MPs do not have enough education to execute the tasks they are charged with.
“…we want legislators who are graduates…”he summed up his opinion.
He also suggested that MPs should not be paid salaries by the government since they are not civil servants but rather public representatives. According to him, giving salaries to them is akin to embezzlement of public funds.
Karokora said the government should stop providing subsidies to political parties but to instead direct them to find alternative revenue sources.
“We advise the government to remove special seats in parliament because they contribute to increasing the burden on taxpayers…” he suggested adding that the number of MPs should also reduced to one MP for each region.
A resident of Tabata in Ilala district, Dar es Salaam, Francis Kakoti was of the opinion that MPs should not be appointed to ministerial posts since it affects their performance in their constituencies.
Another contributor, Gordon Kiaro urged the government form an independent electoral commission to ensure fair elections. He said the commission members should come from different organisations and be placed under the Chief Judge.
The CRC started collecting opinions in Dar-es-Salaam on November 19, this year and continues to do so.
SOURCE: THE GUARDIAN
 

Kiranga

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Jan 29, 2009
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There we go again with paper qualification.

Kwa msingi huu hata Bill Gates type of a genius asingeweza kuwa mbunge bongo.

Elimu si kuwa graduate. Our cabinet has had several Ph.Ds. Wanacheza.

Harry Truman is regarded as one of the great US presidents. The man never graduated college.

Waingereza wenye stiff upper lips na tuliowaiga habari za bunge sio tu wanaruhusu non graduates kuwa wabunge, wamempa John Major u PM. The man never graduated college.

Demokrasia inataka uchaguzi wa watu.

Ukianza kuweka masharti zaidi kugombea ubunge unaondoa uchaguzi kutoka kwa watu unaupeleka kwa maprofesa. Leo utasema wawe graduates, utaona tuna ma Ph.D kama kina Nchimbi. Utataka kesho graduates wspimwe IQ. Utaona hats hao wenye IQ kubwa wanapwaya. Utataka upime mpaka DNA ya uongozi.

Utakuta hamna kitu kama hicho.

Leadership is more of an art than a science. Track record and productivity should be the benchmarks. And the people should be the judges. If you want an educated parliament open the barriers to education.

This proposed requirement is unconstitutional because it unduly infringes on Tanzanians basic democratic rights.

Vipi kesho tukipata genius limefukuzwa chuo kwa sababu halijaelewana na ma profesa wapuuzi? Tutalikatalia ubunge kwa sababu halina cheti cha kuhitimu chuo?
 

Ivonya-Ngia

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Jul 16, 2009
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If an individual person is referred as members of public, we need to redefine the term.
 

Kiranga

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Jan 29, 2009
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If an individual person is referred as members of public, we need to redefine the term.

I don't see an issue with calling an individual a mamber of the public. Because an individual, by definition, is.

More concerning is, why that individual?

Tatizo tunatafuta majibu ya maswali magumu kwa kutumia njia za mkato.

Graduates wenyewe ndo hao kina Pinda na Kikwete.

Tatizo letu ni graduates kweli?
 

Ivonya-Ngia

JF-Expert Member
Jul 16, 2009
703
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I don't see an issue with calling an individual a mamber of the public. Because an individual, by definition, is.

More concerning is, why that individual?

Tatizo tunatafuta majibu ya maswali magumu kwa kutumia njia za mkato.

Graduates wenyewe ndo hao kina Pinda na Kikwete.

Tatizo letu ni graduates kweli?

Kiranga

Rejea kidogo post yangu, i've questioned "an individivual person referred as members of public" na si "an individual person referred as a member of public". Pia sina tatizo na mawazo binafsi ya ndugu Karokora maana ni haki yake ya msingi kutoa mawazo/maoni katika lolote lile tatizo ni pale mawazo hayo yanapopewa taswira kuwa ni mawazo ya jamii.
 
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makavulaivu

JF-Expert Member
Dec 29, 2012
401
0
There we go again with paper qualification.

Kwa msingi huu hata Bill Gates type of a genius asingeweza kuwa mbunge bongo.

Elimu si kuwa graduate. Our cabinet has had several Ph.Ds. Wanacheza.

Harry Truman is regarded as one of the great US presidents. The man never graduated college.

Waingereza wenye stiff upper lips na tuliowaiga habari za bunge sio tu wanaruhusu non graduates kuwa wabunge, wamempa John Major u PM. The man never graduated college.

Demokrasia inataka uchaguzi wa watu.

Ukianza kuweka masharti zaidi kugombea ubunge unaondoa uchaguzi kutoka kwa watu unaupeleka kwa maprofesa. Leo utasema wawe graduates, utaona tuna ma Ph.D kama kina Nchimbi. Utataka kesho graduates wspimwe IQ. Utaona hats hao wenye IQ kubwa wanapwaya. Utataka upime mpaka DNA ya uongozi.

Utakuta hamna kitu kama hicho.

Leadership is more of an art than a science. Track record and productivity should be the benchmarks. And the people should be the judges. If you want an educated parliament open the barriers to education.

This proposed requirement is unconstitutional because it unduly infringes on Tanzanians basic democratic rights.

Vipi kesho tukipata genius limefukuzwa chuo kwa sababu halijaelewana na ma profesa wapuuzi? Tutalikatalia ubunge kwa sababu halina cheti cha kuhitimu chuo?

Nakukubalia miakwamia kwa hii analysis yako.
ingawa pia wewe huenda umefanikiwa kuichambua hii hoja vizuri kwasababu ya elimu ya degree.
 

Kiranga

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Jan 29, 2009
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Kiranga

Rejea kidogo post yangu, i've questioned "an individivual person referred as members of public" na si "an individual person referred as a member of public". Pia sina tatizo na mawazo binafsi ya ndugu Karokora maana ni haki yake ya msingi kutoa mawazo/maoni katika lolote lile tatizo ni pale mawazo hayo yanapopewa taswira kuwa ni mawazo ya jamii.

Got you.

Hata ikiwa members kikweli, mimi nina tatizo na ku pick randomly, select what you want lazily and call that members of the public.

The more broad your sample space, the more meaningless your data.

Unategemea nini ukimuuliza mkulima illiterate kuhusu nini anataka kwenye katiba mpya wakati hata iliyopo haijui?

Unategemea nini unapomuuliza profesa mwenye vested interest ya kuchagua nani a graduate kuhusu requirement za ubunge? Akisema anataka graduates tu tutajuaje kwamba anasems hivyo kwa sababu anataka kuwa among the college of electors au anavalue education genuinely.

Hakuna kitu kama "mawazo ya jamii". Watuambie tu huyu literati, huyu mmachinga. Na tupewe some justifica y ion kwa nini views zake ni muhimu far and above ya kuwa "a member of the public".
 
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rodrick alexander

JF-Expert Member
Feb 12, 2012
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There we go again with paper qualification.

Kwa msingi huu hata Bill Gates type of a genius asingeweza kuwa mbunge bongo.

Elimu si kuwa graduate. Our cabinet has had several Ph.Ds. Wanacheza.

Harry Truman is regarded as one of the great US presidents. The man never graduated college.

Waingereza wenye stiff upper lips na tuliowaiga habari za bunge sio tu wanaruhusu non graduates kuwa wabunge, wamempa John Major u PM. The man never graduated college.

Demokrasia inataka uchaguzi wa watu.

Ukianza kuweka masharti zaidi kugombea ubunge unaondoa uchaguzi kutoka kwa watu unaupeleka kwa maprofesa. Leo utasema wawe graduates, utaona tuna ma Ph.D kama kina Nchimbi. Utataka kesho graduates wspimwe IQ. Utaona hats hao wenye IQ kubwa wanapwaya. Utataka upime mpaka DNA ya uongozi.

Utakuta hamna kitu kama hicho.

Leadership is more of an art than a science. Track record and productivity should be the benchmarks. And the people should be the judges. If you want an educated parliament open the barriers to education.

This proposed requirement is unconstitutional because it unduly infringes on Tanzanians basic democratic rights.

Vipi kesho tukipata genius limefukuzwa chuo kwa sababu halijaelewana na ma profesa wapuuzi? Tutalikatalia ubunge kwa sababu halina cheti cha kuhitimu chuo?
Mkuu umeongea vizuri labda kwa kuongezea Winston aliyekuwa waziri mkuu wakati wa vita kuu ya pili ya dunia hakuwa graduate bado aliweza kuiongoza vizuri nchi yake kipindi kigumu,Lula DaSliva aliyekuwa Rais wa Brazil hakuwa graduate lakini ni rais aliyeweka historia ya mafanikio katika nchi yake mifano ipo mingi ila inaelekea watu wanashinda kujua ubunge siyo kazi ya ajira bali ni kazi ya kujitolea kwa ubinafsi walionao wabunge wetu ndio wamejipangia marupurupu makubwa kiasi cha kuwafanya wanataaluma kukimbilia bungeni badala ya kutumia taaluma zao kuendeleza nchi ndio maana nawashangaa wabunge wakilalamika ukosefu wa wataalamu katika majimbo yao na hali wengi wao wakiwa wataalamu wameshindwa kutoa michango yao na kukimbilia kwenye siasa
 

ngwendu

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Jun 7, 2010
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wewe unautani sasa na mbowe. mimi ngoje nijisepee mapemaaaaa kabla mapro-wake hawajaja kunirarua.
 

ngwendu

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Jun 7, 2010
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Nakukubalia miakwamia kwa hii analysis yako.
ingawa pia wewe huenda umefanikiwa kuichambua hii hoja vizuri kwasababu ya elimu ya degree.
very good comment. ni kweli kabisa huu uchambuzi wake unaonyesha kabisa level yake.
 

ngwendu

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Jun 7, 2010
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Mkuu umeongea vizuri labda kwa kuongezea Winston aliyekuwa waziri mkuu wakati wa vita kuu ya pili ya dunia hakuwa graduate bado aliweza kuiongoza vizuri nchi yake kipindi kigumu,Lula DaSliva aliyekuwa Rais wa Brazil hakuwa graduate lakini ni rais aliyeweka historia ya mafanikio katika nchi yake mifano ipo mingi ila inaelekea watu wanashinda kujua ubunge siyo kazi ya ajira bali ni kazi ya kujitolea kwa ubinafsi walionao wabunge wetu ndio wamejipangia marupurupu makubwa kiasi cha kuwafanya wanataaluma kukimbilia bungeni badala ya kutumia taaluma zao kuendeleza nchi ndio maana nawashangaa wabunge wakilalamika ukosefu wa wataalamu katika majimbo yao na hali wengi wao wakiwa wataalamu wameshindwa kutoa michango yao na kukimbilia kwenye siasa
thanks mkuu maisha ya da silva ni very complicated. ni mtu aliyekulia kwenye shida, kaanza shule akiwa 10years na kuacha shule akiwa 12years, kukatika kidole akiwa kazini na kugombea urais 3 times zote akikosa. kwa mwenye nafasi ingieni kwenye wikipedia ya huyu jamaa, very interesting kwa kweli.
 

Makala Jr

JF-Expert Member
Aug 25, 2011
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In making collective decisions we need comprehensive political views with the true meaning of democracy, This world carries three people who are possibly elected or appointed to lead others: 1.The one with competence but no qualifications according to social rules.Example:Harry Truman 2.The one with qualifications to lead but not competent enough hence performs inappropriate e.g Prof.Magembe. 3.Someone with both competence and qualifications like His Majesty Barack Obama. It takes years for the nation to put social rules with specific qualifications,because We Public Relations Practitioners our main point is the level of performance rather than qualifications. The only thing which can be done about MPs, is waiting for defendant populations where people will vote with educational grounds automatically by excluding it in a constitution.Bad enough,those graduates dislikes rural life!
 

TIMING

JF-Expert Member
Apr 12, 2008
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Kama graduates wenyewe ndio type ya mwigulu... basi tumepotea
 

Kiranga

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Jan 29, 2009
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thanks mkuu maisha ya da silva ni very complicated. ni mtu aliyekulia kwenye shida, kaanza shule akiwa 10years na kuacha shule akiwa 12years, kukatika kidole akiwa kazini na kugombea urais 3 times zote akikosa. kwa mwenye nafasi ingieni kwenye wikipedia ya huyu jamaa, very interesting kwa kweli.

Sasa uzoefu wa DaSilva mtaani na kwenye ma labor movements huko unaweza kuwa zaidi ya Ph.D.

Badala ya kukataa wasiosoma (formally), labda tuwaulize kwa nini hawakusoma na wanaweza ku compensate vipi kwa kukosa kusoma kwao?

Jitu kama Lula DaSilva likiniambia sikusoma kwa sababu nilitoka familia maskini, ilibidi nianze kufanya kazi mapema na kuchangia familia, halafu nikapanda katika ngazi za labor unions huko, nikapata realpolitik experience, mimi ninaye value real world experience naweza kuliona la muhimu, lina natural leadership skills, halijakwepa responsibilities from an early age na lime overcome adversity kuliko graduate asiye na real world experience.

Jitu kama Bill Gates likiniambia mimi nilishaona vision yangu ya kuwa na software behemoth, halafu college ingenipotezea muda tu, nikiangalia track record yake nitawezaje kulipinga?

Sitetei mtu ambaye hajasoma na hana kingine chochote cha kutuonyesha as a compensating factor. Lakini sitaki kuwa close minded na ku apply a narrow sense of "education". Education is much broader than formal education.
 

ngwendu

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Jun 7, 2010
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Sasa uzoefu wa DaSilva mtaani na kwenye ma labor movements huko unaweza kuwa zaidi ya Ph.D.

Badala ya kukataa wasiosoma, labda tuwaulize kwa nini hawakusoma na wanaweza ku compensate vipi kwa kukosa kusoma kwao?

Jitu kama Lula DaSilva likiniambia sikusoma kwa sababu nilitoka familia maskini, ilibidi nianze kufanya kazi mapema na kuchangia familia, halafu nikapanda katika ngazi za labor unions huko, nikapata realpolitik experience, mimi ninaye value real world experience naweza kuliona la muhimu, lina natural leadership skills, halijakwepa responsibilities from an early age na lime overcome adversity kuliko graduate asiye na real world experience.

Jitu kama Bill Gates likiniambia mimi nilishaona vision yangu ya kuwa na software behemoth, halafu college ingenipotezea muda tu, nikiangalia track record yake nitawezaje kulipinga?

Sitetei mtu ambaye hajasoma na hana kingine chochote cha kutuonyesha as a compensating factor. Lakini sitaki kuwa close minded na ku apply a narrow sense of "education". Education is much broader than formal education.
Nakubaliana na wewe. bahati mbaya niliyonayo ni kwamba huwa sinaga kona kuukubali ukweli pale tu ninapouona. asante.
 

makavulaivu

JF-Expert Member
Dec 29, 2012
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Ushasema huenda.

Huna hakika.

Kama elimu sio issue kwa wabunge, tukichagua wabunge 75% wakawa darasa la 7 tutamlaumu nani wakishindwa kufanya analysis na decision zinazohusu taaluma kama sheria, uchumi, mikataba etc?
Hivi ni kweli unakubali ELIMU ya viongozi wa TZ ndio chanzo cha matatizo na sio mfumo?
Elimu na uadilifu ni vitu viwili tofauti , uadilifu huwezi kuusomea.
 

Chamoto

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Dec 7, 2007
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Kama elimu sio issue kwa wabunge, tukichagua wabunge 75% wakawa darasa la 7 tutamlaumu nani wakishindwa kufanya analysis na decision zinazohusu taaluma kama sheria, uchumi, mikataba etc?
Hivi ni kweli unakubali ELIMU ya viongozi wa TZ ndio chanzo cha matatizo na sio mfumo?
Elimu na uadilifu ni vitu viwili tofauti , uadilifu huwezi kuusomea.
Hivi elimu ni nini?
 

Kiranga

JF-Expert Member
Jan 29, 2009
58,409
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Hivi elimu ni nini?

Labda uulize wewe mkuu.

Watu hawajui tofauti ya elimu na elimu rasmi, kusoma na kuelimika.

Rais wetu graduate wa UDSM. Muangalieni hotuba ya January hata kusoma hajui.
 

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