Vita vya Kagera: Nini chanzo? Kulikuwa na ulazima?

[Chief]

Mkuu,
Utasikia sababu tano na domo, longo longo tu.
Mpango ilikuwa ni kumrudisha Obote madarakani!

Ulizaliwa lini? Kitu kimoja nina uhakika, wewe si mwenyeji wa Kagera.

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTSdX0BiS_c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmT8EZJ6hOkhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmT8EZJ6hOk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=516yws-7pTc



Natumaini video hizi toka Youtube ya Majungu. Labda itawasaidia wale ambao bado hawaamini kuwa tulihitaji kupigana vita kumuondoa nduli na hasa wale wenye mashaka kuwa Idi Amin kweli alivamia Kagera!

 

[rancosys]

Mulijitahid kweli kuleta aman na usalam ktk Nchi za Jiran zenu Japo Mulisahau kua nanyi munahitaji Kuzima moto wa Nyumba yenu inyo ungua ndaniu kwa ndani,,! Nadhan Kipind hiko Hamkua na fikra za Mbele taifa lenu linahitaj Nini!.
Labda niulize FAIDA GANI WATANZANIA TUNAJIVUNIA KWA JUHUD TULIYOFANYA YA KULETA UKOMBOZ KWA NCHI ZA JIRAN?
Mtazamo tu..

 

[HM Hafif]

kilimasera ukiona mdogo wakoa anampiga ngumi mwezio na mwenzi akarudishia mkorofi ni yule aliyeanza kurusha ngumi??

Tafuta literatures, uliza waganda, nenda kulia nenda kushoto......

Uganda mpaka leo wanamkumbuka amin! Ambaye wewe unamwona dictator

amin aliua makumi
obote kaua maelfu
museven kaua makumi elfu.......


kwa kufupi mkuu, nyerere alikuwa na mtu ambaye anatakwa sana na amin..mr.obote,

kwa kifupi ulikuwa mpango wa nyerere kumuweka obote madarakani!!! Yale ya kagera n.k ni hasira za amin, ukweli nyerere ndiye alikuwa mkorofi!!!!!

maneno sawia kabisa haya. Hayana ubishi.jkn aliliingiza taifa hili katika janga kubwa sana la njaa mpaka leo mikanda aliyosema tuifunge kwa miezi 18 hajaifungua.

 

[Gamba la Nyoka]

Kama Kuivamia Uganda ilikuwa ni kwa ajili ya Ulinzi wa Nchi yetu ni kwa nini Tuidai Uganda Compensation ya dola Milioni 58, je baada ya Kumtoa Amini kutoka ndani ya mipaka yetu kilichofuata hapo ni bussines?

Angalia hii habari:

Dar wants Uganda pay 60bn/- as war costs

DAILY NEWS Reporter and Agencies, 8th May 2009 @ 01:04, Total Comments: 3, Hits: 742

The government of Tanzania is demanding a total of 58 million US Dollars (over 60bn/-) from its Ugandan counterpart, as the 1979 war costs, which liberated the latter from Idi Amin's dictatorship.

The order is contained in documents of the Medium Term Expenditure Frame (MTEF), which is being scrutinized by Uganda's Parliament, as part of the budget preparation process.

"Tanzania is demanding war costs to a tune of 58 million US dollars and it has converted its demand into a debt and the government of Uganda is yet to pay because negotiations are still going on to request for a debt write-off," Mr Hannington Ashaba, Uganda's Senior Economist in the Parliamentary Budget Office told the committee on Wednesday.

"The information we got from the Ministry of Finance shows that the government of Uganda is yet to pay because negotiations are still going on to request Tanzania government to reconsider and write-off the debt in question," he said.

In 1979, Tanzania's People's Defence Forces (TPDF) on the orders of the country's former President Julius Nyerere (RIP) entered Uganda to push back soldiers of then President Idi Amin who had invaded the Kagera region.

TPDF pushed Idi Amin out of power and helped establish a transitional government in Kampala that led to the 1980 elections. According to the information presented to Uganda's MPs, Tanzania is demanding the payment as costs of invasion and subsequent peacekeeping role during transitional period.

MP David Bahati (NRM- Ndorwa West) said: "This is a critical matter and as a Committee we have taken a decision to summon the Finance minister to explain the genesis of this money Tanzania is demanding from us." He added: "We are talking about billions here. But the State Minister for International Relations, Okello Oryem, downplayed the claim."

 

[haibreus]

Mulijitahid kweli kuleta aman na usalam ktk Nchi za Jiran zenu Japo Mulisahau kua nanyi munahitaji Kuzima moto wa Nyumba yenu inyo ungua ndaniu kwa ndani,,! Nadhan Kipind hiko Hamkua na fikra za Mbele taifa lenu linahitaj Nini!.
Labda niulize FAIDA GANI WATANZANIA TUNAJIVUNIA KWA JUHUD TULIYOFANYA YA KULETA UKOMBOZ KWA NCHI ZA JIRAN?
Mtazamo tu..

Kabla hujatoa maoni tafadhali tafuta lugha ambayo itakufanya ueleweke unataka kuongea nini na kama shule ni tatizo basi tafuta msaada!!hatuna kiswahili cha namna hiyo hapa kwetu!!
na taifa letu halijatushinda hadi kufikia kuomba msaada kwa majirani!!na ndio maana unaona wengi wenu bado mnahangaika kuja hapa na kutafuta kazi kwa majungu!na ole wenu kwani mwisho wenu hauko mbali!

 

[Bantugbro]

I bet you, kuna wengi leo hii hawakufurahishwa na yale maamuzi ya vita!!! they were blinded by good speech 'nia tunayo' baada ya vita kila mtu akaanza kulia na hata leo hii tuna suffer!! my question is HAKUKUWA NA ARGUMENT ZOZOTE ZA twende au tusiende??

Leo hii Kikwete anafanya very same thing, mara kwenda kuokoa comoro sijui wapi, wanajiamulia amulia tu, zikifika athari tunalia sote!!

Mkuu naona sasa unaongea kwa jazba,

Hata kama mwalimu alikuwa ni mchokozi (kwa kumhifadhi na kumsaidia Obote, M7, na, jamaa wengine wengi waliokimbia uonevu wa Amini) lakini alikuwa mjanja mara elfu kumi zaidi ya Amini; Mwalimu alishachoshwa na upumbavu mwingi wa Amini lakini alijua fika kwamba kuishambulia nchi nyingine ni jambo zito kwa hiyo alitumia mbinu mbadala kum-provoke Amini ili aanze yeye kutuvamia! na kwakua jamaa lilikuwa ni mbumbumbu flani likaingia mtegoni kutuvamania na kuikalia ardhi yetu!

Sasa hapo Mwalimu akapata sababu ya kutushawishi kupigana vita na akatutangazia wananchi wote sababu, nia, na uwezo tuliona-tulionaoo wa kumpiga nduli!!!!

Mkuu, kulikuwa hakuna tena mjadala wa kuamua twende au tusiende kwa sababu Amini alikuwa tayari ndani ya nchi yetu, kwani hujaona video pale alipokuwa anakabidhiwa bendera ya chama tawala (kumbuka ilikuwa ni enzi ya chama kimoja kushika hatamu,) walikuwa wamesha mega eneo kubwa tu la Tanzania..

Upupu mwingine wa udini kwenye vita hii wala hauna nafasi...sanasana Amini yeye alidhania Tanzania ilikuwa inasaidiwa na Wakomunisti (Wa-Cuba na Wa-China), na kama ilikuwa ni vita ya kidini basi wale Waarabu (Wa-Libya) tuliowakamata sidhani kama tungewarudisha kwa Ghadaffi wakiwa hai...

 

[Waberoya]

Kwanini Obote alikuwa Tanzania?
Kabla ya kuja Tanzania Obote alikuwa na cheo gani kabla huko Uganda na alikipotezaje hicho cheo?

Kaka Obote alikuwa Rais na alipinduliwa na Amin! is this was justification ya kumkaribisha Tz na kusababisha zile damage?? ANGALIA jibu la Jasusi hapo chini

Unajua Mutukula sio mbali sana kutoka Dar, tena wahenga wa mashambulizi ya Iddi Amin bado wapo, kwa nini usichukue basi mara moja ukaenda ukawaulize kwa nini walishiriki na kuitaka serikali ya Nyerere impige Amin! Hivi unataka kusema nini? Kweli wakati dunia nzima ilimwona Amin na Bokasa kama wauaji wakubwa wewe ni nani hata uone tofauti. Usituudhi ambao tulikuwepo, tulishudia vifo na mateso yaliyosababishwa na Amin. Usiombe yakufike hayo. Wewe unatakiwa upelekwe mbele ya mtutu uambiwe 'advance' yaani umkimbilie adui ambaye amejiandaa kukutungua! Naweza kufikiria kinachoweza kukutokea. Vita sio utani, na ukome kabisa kufikiria Nyerere alikuwa mchokozi. 1972 Amin alivamia Tanzania, tukavumilia, akajaribu tena 1974-75 na chokochoko nyingi, na 78 akiwa na msaada mkubwa wa Jamhuri ya Libya wakiwa na agenda ya ajabu wakavamia, tuliwakunguta. Waingereza na wamarekani walifikiri Nyerere angeshindwa lakini tuliwaweza. Ndio maana waganda wanatusifu sisis kama wakombozi, isipokuwa wale wa kaskazini kwa Iddi

Nazungumza source ya vita na sio athari za vita! mbona uko out of point!!

Sikutaka kusema kitu kwenye mjadala huu kwa sababu nilishasema mengi hapo awali huu mjadala ulipojitokeza mara ya kwanza.
Kwa Nyerere kumpa hifadhi Obote was a given. Kwenye mkutano wa Commonwealth wa Singapore lengo la Heath lilikuwa ni kum-isolate Nyerere aonekane kama ndiye yuko out of step kwa kuishinikiza Uingereza isitishe kuiuzia silaha Afrika kusini. Obote alisimama kidete na Nyerere katika suala hili ikafikia wakati Heath akamtishia kuwa wengine hapa hawatarudi nyumbani kwao. Kumbe Uingereza ilishajua mipango iliyosukwa na intelligence yao na Israel kumpindua Obote. Ungekuwa wewe Nyerere katika hali kama hii kweli ungemsaliti rafiki yako? Obote kwanza alikimbilia Kenya, Waingereza wakamwambia Kenyatta asimpe hifadhi. Ungekuwa wewe Nyerere ungefanya nini? Waberoya, kuna wakati nashindwa kukuelewa kabisa!

Mkuu ONA SASA!!! ONA SASA !!! bila kuwabana nyie wazee na haya maswali hili ningejua wapi??

Hili ndilo nililikuwa nalitaka! kuwa source ya vita ni Obote kuwa Tz, kwa nini obote alikuja umetoa sababu! hata mimi ningefanya kama alivyofanya Nyerere!! swa kabisa! umetoa sababu nzuri, japo umemaliza vibaya kwa kunishangaa kwa sababu ulifikiri najua ulichoandika, you were wrong!

Sasa najua Nyerere alikuwa na sababu tosha ya kumuita au kumuhifadhi Obote! na umejibu tofauti na na hakina mag3, na mzee mzima MKJJ, wao wanazima maswali.

now million dollar question is coming!

is there any where in this planet where this information can be found? ulichoandika is it documented somewhere na unaweza ukanipa reference, au ni kale katabia ketu ka kutotunza hizi kumbukumbu! believe me next year kuan mtu atauliza kama mimi! hupo hapo??

Mkuu naona sasa unaongea kwa jazba,

Hata kama mwalimu alikuwa ni mchokozi (kwa kumhifadhi na kumsaidia Obote, M7, na, jamaa wengine wengi waliokimbia uonevu wa Amini) lakini alikuwa mjanja mara elfu kumi zaidi ya Amini; Mwalimu alishachoshwa na upumbavu mwingi wa Amini lakini alijua fika kwamba kuishambulia nchi nyingine ni jambo zito kwa hiyo alitumia mbinu mbadala kum-provoke Amini ili aanze yeye kutuvamia! na kwakua jamaa lilikuwa ni mbumbumbu flani likaingia mtegoni kutuvamania na kuikalia ardhi yetu!

Sasa hapo Mwalimu akapata sababu ya kutushawishi kupigana vita na akatutangazia wananchi wote sababu, nia, na uwezo tuliona-tulionaoo wa kumpiga nduli!!!!

Mkuu, kulikuwa hakuna tena mjadala wa kuamua twende au tusiende kwa sababu Amini alikuwa tayari ndani ya nchi yetu, kwani hujaona video pale alipokuwa anakabidhiwa bendera ya chama tawala (kumbuka ilikuwa ni enzi ya chama kimoja kushika hatamu,) walikuwa wamesha mega eneo kubwa tu la Tanzania..

Upupu mwingine wa udini kwenye vita hii wala hauna nafasi...sanasana Amini yeye alidhania Tanzania ilikuwa inasaidiwa na Wakomunisti (Wa-Cuba na Wa-China), na kama ilikuwa ni vita ya kidini basi wale Waarabu (Wa-Libya) tuliowakamata sidhani kama tungewarudisha kwa Ghadaffi wakiwa hai...

Umejibu visivyo tunataka justification ya vita na sio eti alikuwa mjanja! mbona mnajibu kirahisi jamani??

sababu wamezitoa hapo juu hii siyo thread ya chadema, tunazngumza historia hapa,

KUMBUKA usije ukawa na negative feeling muda wote, mimi sio mbishi ukileta facts nazikubali ukishindwa nakusakama, huan facts hapa! labda ya sababu za udini umejibu sawa.

 

[Mwiba]

Hamna mlijualo vita ile ilikuwa ya udini pale,Idi amini ni muislamu Nyerere hakulipenda na wazungu nao pia hawakupendelea ,ila mimi nilishiriki kikamilifu .

 

[Waberoya]

Kama Kuivamia Uganda ilikuwa ni kwa ajili ya Ulinzi wa Nchi yetu ni kwa nini Tuidai Uganda Compensation ya dola Milioni 58, je baada ya Kumtoa Amini kutoka ndani ya mipaka yetu kilichofuata hapo ni bussines?

Angalia hii habari:

Dar wants Uganda pay 60bn/- as war costs

DAILY NEWS Reporter and Agencies, 8th May 2009 @ 01:04, Total Comments: 3, Hits: 742

The government of Tanzania is demanding a total of 58 million US Dollars (over 60bn/-) from its Ugandan counterpart, as the 1979 war costs, which liberated the latter from Idi Amin's dictatorship.

The order is contained in documents of the Medium Term Expenditure Frame (MTEF), which is being scrutinized by Uganda's Parliament, as part of the budget preparation process.

"Tanzania is demanding war costs to a tune of 58 million US dollars and it has converted its demand into a debt and the government of Uganda is yet to pay because negotiations are still going on to request for a debt write-off," Mr Hannington Ashaba, Uganda's Senior Economist in the Parliamentary Budget Office told the committee on Wednesday.

"The information we got from the Ministry of Finance shows that the government of Uganda is yet to pay because negotiations are still going on to request Tanzania government to reconsider and write-off the debt in question," he said.

In 1979, Tanzania's People's Defence Forces (TPDF) on the orders of the country's former President Julius Nyerere (RIP) entered Uganda to push back soldiers of then President Idi Amin who had invaded the Kagera region.

TPDF pushed Idi Amin out of power and helped establish a transitional government in Kampala that led to the 1980 elections. According to the information presented to Uganda's MPs, Tanzania is demanding the payment as costs of invasion and subsequent peacekeeping role during transitional period.

MP David Bahati (NRM- Ndorwa West) said: "This is a critical matter and as a Committee we have taken a decision to summon the Finance minister to explain the genesis of this money Tanzania is demanding from us." He added: "We are talking about billions here. But the State Minister for International Relations, Okello Oryem, downplayed the claim."

Mkuu asante sana kwa hii info!

wengine tunapouliza tunaonekana maadui wa Nyerere, hatujui historia, watoto, wajinga, wabishi n.k!! au wadini! wakati mimi ni mkristo tena co-pastor!!!

ulichoandika hapa kimeniletea confusion, tena hii habari ni ya majuzi tu!!! nashindwa nijibu nini. nadhani JASUSI, MKJJ, watakuwa kwenye position nzuri ya kutusaidia kujibu

karibuni jamani!

 

[Waberoya]

Hamna mlijualo vita ile ilikuwa ya udini pale,Idi amini ni muislamu Nyerere hakulipenda na wazungu nao pia hawakupendelea ,ila mimi nilishiriki kikamilifu .

Mkuu ukisema hakuna wanaolijua unakosea, I am firmly standing in the psotion that, there was no religious agenda led to that war! can you disclose the tangible facts or at least convince us with some logic argument saying that is udini, and just ending there is not fair, not only to us who are seeking the truth but alos to yourself!!!

 

[Jasusi]

Kaka Obote alikuwa Rais na alipinduliwa na Amin! is this was justification ya kumkaribisha Tz na kusababisha zile damage?? ANGALIA jibu la Jasusi hapo chini



Nazungumza source ya vita na sio athari za vita! mbona uko out of point!!



Mkuu ONA SASA!!! ONA SASA !!! bila kuwabana nyie wazee na haya maswali hili ningejua wapi??

Hili ndilo nililikuwa nalitaka! kuwa source ya vita ni Obote kuwa Tz, kwa nini obote alikuja umetoa sababu! hata mimi ningefanya kama alivyofanya Nyerere!! swa kabisa! umetoa sababu nzuri, japo umemaliza vibaya kwa kunishangaa kwa sababu ulifikiri najua ulichoandika, you were wrong!

Sasa najua Nyerere alikuwa na sababu tosha ya kumuita au kumuhifadhi Obote! na umejibu tofauti na na hakina mag3, na mzee mzima MKJJ, wao wanazima maswali.

now million dollar question is coming!

is there any where in this planet where this information can be found? ulichoandika is it documented somewhere na unaweza ukanipa reference, au ni kale katabia ketu ka kutotunza hizi kumbukumbu! believe me next year kuan mtu atauliza kama mimi! hupo hapo??
.

Waberoya,
Sasa nimekuelewa. Hilo swali lako ni la msingi. Kuna vitabu vitatu ambavyo naviita ni authority on Uganda tangu Amin alipompindua Obote.
Cha kwanza ni cha David Martin "Idi Amin." Huyu alikuwa mwandishi habari Mwingereza. Alifukuzwa Tanzania mwaka 1973 na Rashid Kawawa, wakati Nyerere alipokuwa state visit Yugoslavia. Nasikia Nyerere aliposikia habari hizo kwenye BBC alikasirika sana na kumwomba Martin arudi Bongo, but that is another story for another thread. Kingine kimeandikwa na Tony Arvigan na Martha Honey. Arvigan alikuwa mwandishi habari Mmarekani aliyefanyiwa mpango na Sam Mdee kufuatana na jeshi letu Uganda. Kingine ni cha Yoweri Museveni, "Sowing the Mustard Seed." Hiki amejikita zaidi kutoa mtazamo wake na harakati za NRM, lakini humo pia utadodosa yaliyompata alipokuwa Tanzania, ikiwa pamoja na kuwekwa kizuizini, na anazungumzia vile vile upinzani wa wale anaowaita conservatives katika serikali ya Nyerere dhidi ya vita vya Uganda. Kitabu kingine kimeandikwa na Mtanzania mwenzetu Godfrey Mwakikagile. Huyu alikuwa mwandishi wa habari Daily News kabla ya kuhamia Marekani kuendeleza elimu yake. Kitabu chake kinaitwa "Nyerere And Africa: End of An Era. Hapo kama msomi utakuwa umepata angalau picha kamili ya saga hili.

 

[JokaKuu]

..hiki kipande kimetoka kwenye paper " The Effect of Africa's Exiles/Refugees Upon Inter-African State Relations : Conflicts and Cooperation 1958 -- 1988 " by Paul Gasarasi.

..Tanzania tumepokea wakimbizi wengi toka nchi mbalimbali za Afrika. mara nyingine wema na msaada wetu kwa hawa ndugu zetu umetuathiri wa-Tanzania in a negative way.

..lakini hii historia yetu kama safe haven ya Waafrika waliokuwa wakikimbia tawala dhalimu, na ushiriki wetu ktk harakati za ukombozi wa nchi za Afrika, is one of the things that make me proud of my country Tanzania.

Uganda versus Tanzania

Perhaps nowhere in East Africa has the exile/refugee
issue caused as much damage in inter-state relations as in
the case of Uganda and Tanzania. As pointed out earlier in
this chapter, when Idi Amin ousted Obote in 1971, the latter
was given asylum for a short period in the Sudan, after
which he and his supporters moved to Tanzania. Immediately
after Tanzania had granted them asylum, the government of
Idi Amin charged that Tanzania was preparing its army to
invade Uganda and reinstate Obote. For the next eight
years, this and similar charges were made by Uganda over and
over, and many unfriendly actions directed against Tanzania
were based on this allegation. For instance, in July 1971,
Uganda claimed that pro-Obote guerrillas had infiltrated
Uganda from Tanzania and warned that any aircraft
approaching Uganda from Tanzania would be shot down.38
The conflict between Uganda and Tanzania escalated
rapidly in the last months of 1971 through 1972. In October
1971, Uganda's military aircraft made incursions into
Tanzania. The military confrontation which ensued
necessitated the intervention of Kenya's President, who
offered to mediate. In September, 1972, Obote's men exiled
in Tanzania invaded Uganda with the connivance of Tanzania
government. This abortive operation brought the two
countries on the brink of a full-scale war. Ugandan
military aircraft began to strike deep into Tanzanian
territory, bombing towns. On the ground, Ugandan and 153
Tanzanian armies stood face ta face on their common border.
Bellicose pronouncements dominated the airwaves in the
capitals of both countries. Anxiety ran high in the OAU
throughout September of 1972 and the first week of October,
at the end of which a peace agreement was reached between
the two belligerents, thanks ta Somalia's mediation efforts.
Tony Avirgan and Martha Honey have adequately
documented the extent ta which Tanzania assisted Ugandan
exiles/refugees in their attempt ta bring down the Amin
regime. Among other things, they affirm that:
Nyerere...gave Obote facilities ta establish a training
camp at Kingolwira, two hundred kilometers inland from
Dar es Salaam. Here Obote's followers began training in
late March and by April 1971, 294 men had made final
preparation9ta invade Uganda and begun moving toward
the border.
Avirgan and Honey have indicated that Tanzania's assistance
ta exiled followers of Obote was sustained through 1972 when
about one thousand pro-Obote guerrillas expelled from Sudan
arrived in Tanzania and
began military training at an unused National Service...
camp near Handeni, 160 kilometers inland from the
coastal town of Tanga. Another saveral hundred Obote
followers were at Kigwa in the Tabora region, where they
had been waiting since August 1971 ta move into
Uganda.40
For at least one year following the Mogadishu Peace
agreement, Tanzania was more discrete in its assistance ta
Ugandan exiles/refugees in their mission ta overthrow Amin.
Although the President tolerated their subversive
activities, he became decisively concerned with the
principle of plausible deniability. However, in 1974, 154
Tanzania's support became a little more visible when
government authorities "arranged for some.of Museveni's
followers ta receive guerrilla training with Frelimo at its
Nachingwea base in southern Tanzania."41 Avirgan and Honey
have also identified an exiled group called the Save Uganda
Movement (SUM) as having carried out small-scale sabotage
activities against the Amin government with behind-the-
scenes aid from Tanzania. Tanzania's commitment ta assist
this group seems ta have been even more resolute in 1977,
when the former agreed ta train and arm a small SUM
guerrilla force."42 Another Tanzania-based group which
occasionally received financial support and arms from
Tanzania was called Uganda National Unity and
Reconciliation.
As the Uganda-Tanzania conflict unfolded over the
years due ta the exile/refugee factor, Amin continually
harassed Tanzania. For example, in 1974, he threatened ta
invade Tanzania, after the latter had given high visibility
ta exiled ex-President Obote by sitting him in the front raw
of the reviewing stand, on President Nyerere's side, at the
celebrations marking the 20th anniversary of the founding of
Tanzania's ruling party. Not long after this threat, Amin
tried ta help an exiled Tanzanian politician based in London
ta "look for financial support for a plot ta topple
Nyerere."43 In 1978, Amin warned that the occasional border
clashes between his troops and Tanzanian forces would
continue until Tanzania expelled Obote and his guerrillas. 155
The escalating conflict between Uganda and Tanzania
culminated in a full-fledged conventional war in 1978-9,
during which Tanzania's regular forces fought side by side
with Ugandan exiles to topple Amin.
The strained relations between Uganda and Tanzania due
to the exile/refugee factor occasionally had moments of
cooperation. One such moment was the negotiation of the
Mogadishu Peace Agreement, the outcome of which was a mutual
agreement for:
(i) cessation of military operations against each
other's territory and withdrawal of military
forces to a distance of at least ten miles from
the common border;
(ii) halting of hostile propaganda;
(iii) refraining from allowing "subversive forc22" to
operate in one country against the other.
Needless to say, this spirit of cooperation did not endure,
for each of these points was soon flagrantly violated by
both parties.
An even more surprising act of cooperation took place
in 1973 at the OAU summit in Addis Ababa when Nyerere and
Amin signed an accord that included a pledge by Amin to drop
his demand that Tanzania evict Obote. This pledge did not
endure Amin's erratic political style either.

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

JokaKuu.. nimependa hicho kipande maana toka mwanzo kabisa inasema hivi:

Immediately
after Tanzania had granted them asylum, the government of
Idi Amin charged that Tanzania was preparing its army to
invade Uganda and reinstate Obote. For the next eight
years, this and similar charges were made by Uganda over and
over, and many unfriendly actions directed against Tanzania
were based on this allegation.

Ni madai tu.. hakukuwa na ushahidi wa kihistoria uliothibitisha madai hayo. kama Tanzania iliweza kumtwanga Amin ndani ya mwaka mmoja hivi kwanini isingeweza kumrudisha Obote ndani ya miaka nane ambayo Amin alikuwa madarakani?

Na inasemwa hivi:

In October
1971, Uganda's military aircraft made incursions into
Tanzania. The military confrontation which ensued
necessitated the intervention of Kenya's President, who
offered to mediate.

hakuna mahali panasomewa kuwa tanzania ilipeleka ndege zake kwenye anga la Uganda. Lakini tunaambiwa ati Nyerere ndiye alikuwa mchokozi. Mengine yote yanayotajwa ni wazi yanakuja baada ya 1971 na kuwa kwa serikali yoyote ile huwezi kuwa na jirani anayetishia kukushambulia nawe ukakaa aidha bila kujiandaa naye au kujaribu kumneutralize. kama vile Israeli ilivyo karibu na Iran na kauli za kina Ahmedinajad za kuitishia Israel sitarajii Israel wawe wamekaa tu bila kujaribu kuisumbua serikali ya Iran kutoka ndani au kusupport wapinzani wa serikali hiyo. HIyo ni sehemu ya siasa za Kimataifa.

Hakuna lolote ambalo serikali yetu chini ya Mwalimu ilifanya ambalo ni nje ya yale ambayo yangefanywa na serikali nyingine yoyote duniani ikiwa na tishio kama la Amin mipakani kwake. Na tungekuwa taifa la ajabu sana kama baada ya Uvamizi tungekaa chini na a. kuicha Kagera iende Uganda au kumbembeleza Amin atusamehe. Hapa ndipo hotuba ya "uwezo tunao" inapokuja!

 

[X-PASTER]

...Pia wanaojaribu kuingiza Udini ni lazima wafahamu kuwa katika kipindi hicho Mwalimu alikuwa mstari wa mbele kuwatetea Wapalestina katika harakati zao dhidi ya Israel. Ni sababu hiyo iliyopelekea Tanzania kuvunja mahusiano ya kibalozi na Israel na Mwalimu alikuwa rafiki mkubwa wa Gadafi wa Libya. Tendo la Gadafi na Wapalestina kutuma majeshi kuja kumsaidia Idi Amin dhidi ya Tanzania lilimshtua sana na kumhuzunisha Mwalimu...

Mkuu Mag3, hii hoja yako kuhusiana na Wapalestine na Uislam, haina nguvu wala mashiko kwa sababu Wapalestine vita vyao dhidi ya Israel haisimami kwenye udini bali utaifa, kwani ndani ya PLO ambao ndio walikuwa na nguvu za kiharakati wamo pia Wakristo.

 

[Waberoya]

Waberoya,
Sasa nimekuelewa. Hilo swali lako ni la msingi. Kuna vitabu vitatu ambavyo naviita ni authority on Uganda tangu Amin alipompindua Obote.
Cha kwanza ni cha David Martin "Idi Amin." Huyu alikuwa mwandishi habari Mwingereza. Alifukuzwa Tanzania mwaka 1973 na Rashid Kawawa, wakati Nyerere alipokuwa state visit Yugoslavia. Nasikia Nyerere aliposikia habari hizo kwenye BBC alikasirika sana na kumwomba Martin arudi Bongo, but that is another story for another thread. Kingine kimeandikwa na Tony Arvigan na Martha Honey. Arvigan alikuwa mwandishi habari Mmarekani aliyefanyiwa mpango na Sam Mdee kufuatana na jeshi letu Uganda. Kingine ni cha Yoweri Museveni, "Sowing the Mustard Seed." Hiki amejikita zaidi kutoa mtazamo wake na harakati za NRM, lakini humo pia utadodosa yaliyompata alipokuwa Tanzania, ikiwa pamoja na kuwekwa kizuizini, na anazungumzia vile vile upinzani wa wale anaowaita conservatives katika serikali ya Nyerere dhidi ya vita vya Uganda. Kitabu kingine kimeandikwa na Mtanzania mwenzetu Godfrey Mwakikagile. Huyu alikuwa mwandishi wa habari Daily News kabla ya kuhamia Marekani kuendeleza elimu yake. Kitabu chake kinaitwa "Nyerere And Africa: End of An Era. Hapo kama msomi utakuwa umepata angalau picha kamili ya saga hili.

..hiki kipande kimetoka kwenye paper " The Effect of Africa's Exiles/Refugees Upon Inter-African State Relations : Conflicts and Cooperation 1958 -- 1988 " by Paul Gasarasi.

..Tanzania tumepokea wakimbizi wengi toka nchi mbalimbali za Afrika. mara nyingine wema na msaada wetu kwa hawa ndugu zetu umetuathiri wa-Tanzania in a negative way.

..lakini hii historia yetu kama safe haven ya Waafrika waliokuwa wakikimbia tawala dhalimu, na ushiriki wetu ktk harakati za ukombozi wa nchi za Afrika, is one of the things that make me proud of my country Tanzania.

JokaKuu.. nimependa hicho kipande maana toka mwanzo kabisa inasema hivi:


Ni madai tu.. hakukuwa na ushahidi wa kihistoria uliothibitisha madai hayo. kama Tanzania iliweza kumtwanga Amin ndani ya mwaka mmoja hivi kwanini isingeweza kumrudisha Obote ndani ya miaka nane ambayo Amin alikuwa madarakani?

Na inasemwa hivi:



hakuna mahali panasomewa kuwa tanzania ilipeleka ndege zake kwenye anga la Uganda. Lakini tunaambiwa ati Nyerere ndiye alikuwa mchokozi. Mengine yote yanayotajwa ni wazi yanakuja baada ya 1971 na kuwa kwa serikali yoyote ile huwezi kuwa na jirani anayetishia kukushambulia nawe ukakaa aidha bila kujiandaa naye au kujaribu kumneutralize. kama vile Israeli ilivyo karibu na Iran na kauli za kina Ahmedinajad za kuitishia Israel sitarajii Israel wawe wamekaa tu bila kujaribu kuisumbua serikali ya Iran kutoka ndani au kusupport wapinzani wa serikali hiyo. HIyo ni sehemu ya siasa za Kimataifa.

Hakuna lolote ambalo serikali yetu chini ya Mwalimu ilifanya ambalo ni nje ya yale ambayo yangefanywa na serikali nyingine yoyote duniani ikiwa na tishio kama la Amin mipakani kwake. Na tungekuwa taifa la ajabu sana kama baada ya Uvamizi tungekaa chini na a. kuicha Kagera iende Uganda au kumbembeleza Amin atusamehe. Hapa ndipo hotuba ya "uwezo tunao" inapokuja!

Jasusi and Mwanakijiji thanks for references and your inputs,will work on it! I relay wanted documented facts, will surely peruse those books
and add something in my library. Next time we do need to have reference so that we dont digress the truth or fact!

Siku moja nilishangaa sana naongea na mzee mmoja wa miaka 92 uko Iringa, akanihakikishia kabisa fuvu linalosemwa la Mkwawa siyo la Mkwawa!!! Mkwawa was never found, someone took his place!!!! I said what??? he gave me some facts, I left there confused!!! where are historian???

Today we may easily blame young generations by seeking information of our nation from abroad, yes we may do so, but where is oour books? are these books have some interesting and challenging facts or just repetiotions of ''nia tunayo?" Is there any news paper that is engaged in telling some history of our country?? (Mwanakijiji take this you are Journalist)??

we dont have custom of telling young generation about the past history of our country, tunakiu ya kujua hukuti vitabu vya maana vilivyandikwa intelectually vikakuweka kwenye position ya kukata kiu!!!

Hii vita ukisoma kwenye wikipedia (sijuia nani kaweka) inaonyesha Tanzania ndio wachokozi! vijana wanashinda humo kwenye net siku hizi they will question, and is better they do that!!

Cheers!!

 

[nyantella]

Kuna kitu nimewai kusikia kwamba Mwalimu alinunua baadhi ya silaha kwa kutumia line of credit kutoka kwa baadhi ya Indian-Tanzania family. Jee hili lina ukweli gani? Nimewai kusikia kwamba watoto wa hizi familia wana simamia kesi mahakamani au wameshakwenda ICC concern malipo ya fedha hizo ambazo zilitumika kununulia silaha wakati wa vita vya amini.

Hizi ndio mada ambazo zilikuwa zinasisimua JF, naombeni ziwe zinarudi mara kwa mara ili wengi tufaidike.

Mtanganyika!
Its true kuna Mhindi mmoja alikua anatudai about Tshs. 56 Billion jina limenitoka kidogo nafikiri kuna mwanasheria mmoja (sijui kwa nini jina linalo kuja kichwani ni Nimrod Mkono) aliisadia serikali ikashinda hiyo kesi. kama watoto wameenda ICC that is news.

As regarding to the vita vya kagera, Mwalimu alituambia tufunge mikanda for 18 months. I think our economy have never recovered ever since. EPA ikazaliwa, RM and now DOWANS. What next?????????

 

[Zero One Two]

video za youtube wakati Nyerere anatoa sehemu ya hotuba hiyo...

Hilo ndio tatizo, sitaki vipande vya hotuba.

Tumeshasikia msemombiu wa "Sababu Tunazo, Nia Tunayo" mara mia nne. Wengine hatutaki vitu nusu nusu. Mbona hutaki kuelewa kinachosemwa na nimerudia mara nyingi?

Kwamba vipande vya hotuba hivyo vipo, CD zinauzwa kwenye mataa barabarani. Nimeshaziona! Ambacho sijabahatiki kukiona au kukisoma ni hotuba nzima.

Kama unayo nitashukuru, kama huna, huna!

 

[Nazjaz]

Nyerere kweli anfgekubali kuwa nyuma ya maslah ya wamerekani na waingereza?
Sidhani? Je tulikuwa na haja ya kumwacha nduli aichukue kagera yetu?

naskia kuna mkono wa waingereza na wamarekani, sina uhakika nahitaji maelezo kwa wanaojua zaidi. Amini alikua na silaha pamoja na jeshi lililojitosheleza zaidi yetu, je ilikuaje tukashinda?tulitumia satelite za nani ku target majeshi ya amini?na kwanini? Kuna siri nyingi wakubwa.

 

[Mtanganyika]

Mtanganyika!
Its true kuna Mhindi mmoja alikua anatudai about Tshs. 56 Billion jina limenitoka kidogo nafikiri kuna mwanasheria mmoja (sijui kwa nini jina linalo kuja kichwani ni Nimrod Mkono) aliisadia serikali ikashinda hiyo kesi. kama watoto wameenda ICC that is news.

As regarding to the vita vya kagera, Mwalimu alituambia tufunge mikanda for 18 months. I think our economy have never recovered ever since. EPA ikazaliwa, RM and now DOWANS. What next?????????

I tried to research kuhusu hii kesi, from what i know Maira ndio alikuwa lawyer wa hii familia ya muhindi, I couldn't get the name of huyo muhindi. Sema according to the sources huyo mzee alikuwa poisoned jela nchini Tanzania ( i don't have any prove for this, it might be speculation). I need to know, If Mwalim did not have fund then why we went into war?

1978 price of Crude Oil soared to the roof, the economy of America was in deep trouble. Banks couldn't lend money because interest rate was bad, inflation was at the roof. Yet Mwalim went to war. There must be a strong reason behind this war, so far i like where this argument is heading.

Kinacho imaliza young generation yetu ni uvivu wa kufikiri, wakisikia kwamba hiki na kile then wanakimbia na kuja kuandika hapa kama expert.

As economist by choice, Uganda war and Ujamaa/ Azimio la Arusha ndio sources za umasikini huu tulio nao. I researched the matter at the proffesional level. However, i still don't know was Tanzania VS. Nduli Iddi Amin a war of choice or nessesity? If the plan was to put Obote back into the office, the Uganda people are suppose to pay us some dollars. Did Mwalim bet Tanzania economy for the sake of ukombozi wa Africa? All this are valid question which need our youth to engage in debating process.